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Lal
Keymasterfirewns wrote: “However, suppose that the being is either unaware of, or chooses not to obstruct tanha, so that it smoothly leads to upadana without much hindrance”.
Yes. That is why it is not possible to stop the rebirth process if one is not exposed to correct Buddha Dhamma.
On other questions:
“Tanha paccaya vinnana” does take place.“tanha paccaya rupa” happens only indirectly. For example, one’s next birth (and the accompanying body) arises due to a built-up vinnana. This is a deeper aspect.
I suggest reading the following to understand what is really meant by vinnana. This is something most people do not understand. Vinnana is all about “future expectations”:
I recommend reading the posts 3 through 6 in the following section:
“Essential Buddhism”and then read:
“Viññāna – What It Really Means”It is worthwhile to spend the time and understand vinnana.
March 5, 2019 at 5:05 pm in reply to: How to Remove Sanna and Citta Vipallasa About Dukkha and Asubha #22279Lal
Keymasterfirewns asked: “How can one meditate on reducing sanna and citta vipallasa about dukkha and asubha?”
One cannot reduce sanna and citta vipallasa DIRECTLY via meditation.
Those vipallasa are reduced when one cultivates panna by getting rid of the 10 types of miccha ditthi first, and then increasing one’s understanding on Tilakkhana (mainly the anicca nature).
– So, the meditation should be on Dhamma concepts.
– You may want to listen to the set of discourses on Tilakkhana:
“Three Marks of Existence – English Discourses“Lal
KeymasterMind can play tricks.
When one really starts comprehending Dhamma (suffering and its root causes), one can start feeling it mentally and bodily. This is described in the described in the Upanisa Sutta (SN 12.23):
“..With the comprehension of suffering (i.e., the First Noble Truth via Tilakkhana) faith results; with the growth of faith, lightness of mind (pāmojjaṃ) arises; with increasing lightness of mind, joy (piti) arises; with increasing joy, lightness of the body (passaddhi) arises; with increasing passaddhi, bodily sukha arises; with increasing bodily sukha, samādhi arises; with samādhi, yathābhūtañāṇadassana (knowledge and vision of things as they really are) arises; with the knowledge and vision of things as they really are, one loses attachment to worldly things (nibbidā), followed by losing cravings for sense pleasures (viragā), and liberation (vimutti), and to the destruction of all defilements (khayeñāṇaṃ)”.
That step-by-step process takes one all the way to Arahanthood.
March 4, 2019 at 8:33 pm in reply to: Post on "Sōtapanna Anugāmi – No More Births in the Apāyās" #22258Lal
KeymasterJust published a post on this topic confirming what I stated above:
“Attha Purisa Puggalā- Eight Noble Persons“.We can discuss any remaining issues here. No need to open a new thread.
I will try to publish one more post before taking a break. But I will be able to take part in the forum until about the 14th. Then I will be taking a few weeks off.
Lal
KeymasterYou are welcome, Tealer!
You said: ‘ Phala-sammāpatti I understand as saññā vedayita nirodha.”
- saññā vedayita nirodha is the phala samapatti corresponding to the Arahant phala.
- Phala samapatti for lower stages of Nibbana are different. For example, a Sotapanna could cultivate Sotapanna phala samapatti.
You wrote: “For my understanding, Magga and phala itself (and the phala-sammāpatti even more) is a special kind of jhanic experience.”
As explained in the post, “Pannāvimutti – Arahanthood without Jhāna“, one could get to magga and phala without going through jhana.
You wrote: “So even the paññāvimutti Arahat must have at least some jhanic moments.”
It is possible that a paññāvimutti Arahant may automatically get to the first Ariya jhana. I am not certain about that. Of course, he/she would be easily able to cultivate jhanas after the Arahanthood.
– However, the Abhidhamma description of any magga phala involves only a gotrabu (change of lineage) citta; see at the end of the following post for a a short description: “Citta Vithi – Processing of Sense Inputs“.You asked: “do you think that every ubhatobhāga-vimutta must be (beside paññāvimutta) also akuppā cetovimutta?”
Ubhatobhāga Arahant means one who is liberated “both ways”.
– a cetovimutti ARAHANT is, by definition, an Ubhatobhāga Arahant.
– a paññāvimutti Arahant can become an Ubhatobhāga Arahant by cultivating jhana and getting to saññā vedayita nirodha.You may be also interested in the post, “Jhānic Experience in Detail – Sāmaññaphala Sutta (DN 2)“, which was published today.
Lal
KeymasterThis has been explained in detail:
Lal
KeymasterThank you, Tealer, for the detailed posting.
I think it is a good idea to first see the difference between cetovimutti and pannavimutti Arahants.
– I had started writing a post on the Tapussa Sutta that explains this well. So, I was able to finish it today, and I just published it:
“Tapussa Sutta (AN 9.41)– Akuppā Cētōvimutti”We can discuss more if you have questions. Please refer to the bullet numbers in the post, if you ask specific questions on it.
Lal
Keymasterupekkha100 asked: “Can someone be able to radiate boundless metta to all sentient beings to that level of a brahma, when they still have kama raga?”
You have given the answer below that too.
When one has extreme version of kama raga (abhijja), the power of the metta bhavana is the weakest. One is just reciting without much effect.
– It is stronger when abhijja is reduced to kama raga stage.
– It is even stronger when one has no kama raga, but has rupa raga and arupa raga left.
– It is stronger when only arupa raga is left.
– It is strongest when all are eliminated by removing both tanha and avijja (i.e., for an Arahant).Put it in another way, the javana power of a citta is increased as one gets rid (or at least suppresses) avijja and tanha.
– Of course, removal is better than suppression, AND removal requires the comprehension of anicca nature (Tilakkhana).P.S. “A Simple Way to Enhance Merits (Kusala) and Avoid Demerits (Akusala)“
1 user thanked author for this post.
February 27, 2019 at 8:15 am in reply to: Post on "Sōtapanna Anugāmi – No More Births in the Apāyās" #22137Lal
KeymasterAkvan wrote:
“This is how I have understood all this;There are two types of sotapanna anugami (Sotapattiphalasacchikiriyaya paṭipanno) based on their dominant faculty. The pragna dominant person is a dhammanusari and a saddha dominant person is a saddhanusari.
There are three types of sotapanna based on the time they will take to attain nibbana; sattakkhattuparamo, kolamkolo and ekabiji.”
I have been able to look into this a bit more, and your above conclusions are correct.
The only remaining questions are regarding the time it takes to attain the Arahanthood.
I need more time to verify, by it seems that there are no set time limits for the dhammanusari and the saddhanusari (Sotapanna Anugamis) to attain the Arahanthood.
– However, they will NEVER be born again in the apayas. So, the post, “Sōtapanna Anugāmi – No More Births in the Apāyās” is accurate.
– I will write a post, but may take some time. I am going through some medical issues.Lal
Keymaster@Tealer: I think we can resolve this issue if you can provide the key suttas which led to your conclusions.
Lal
KeymasterMahendran sent me a desana and a writeup on Devanussati. Since both are in Sinhala, no point in providing the links.
– However, Devanussati does not involve encouraging people to seek births in deva realms.
– However, one must do deeds while cultivating Noble Path, in order to purify the mind and such punna kamma do lead to births in human and higher realms.Mahendran wrote:” my confusion is due to the fact that I am under the impression that all the Devas are good. ”
I have provided evidence that all devas are not good: “What Does Buddha Dhamma Say about Creator, Satan, Angels, and Demons?”
– Mara Devaputta is in the highest deva realm, yet he tried to put obstacles in the way for the Buddha, because he did not want people to attain Nibbana.Mahendran wrote: ” it is said that bhavana yogis need to think of the five characteristics of the Devas, ( sadhdha , sila, shrutha, thyaaga and pragngna)..”
That is the root cause of the problem. While some devas have them (especially those with magga phala), not all devas have them. But of course, they received that good birth due to at least some of those qualities in a PREVIOUS life; see below.
– If Mara Devaputta had pragngna (the correct Pali word is panna, meaning wisdom about the true nature of this world), then he would not have tried to block people from practicing Buddha Dhamma.
– Some Bhikkhus in Sri Lanka try to highlight the benefits in births in deva worlds. That is exactly what Mara Devaputta tries to do too.
– While it is good to realize that deva births are good births due to good deeds, one must realize the futility of getting deva births in the long run. Most devas indulge in sense pleasures and are reborn as animals (many of the beautiful birds had deva births in the previous life).The key point to understand is that devas are another type of living beings, with more sense pleasures than humans. They get that birth mainly due to dana and sila (giving and moral living).
- There is nothing wrong with giving merits or even making offerings to devas.
- But one should NOT seek REFUGE in any living being, other than Sangha (By the way, bhikkhus do not necessarily belong to Sangha. Only Noble Persons belong to Sangha and some bhikkus are Noble Persons; of course, one should ALWAYS pay respects to bhikkhus because they do represent the Buddha Sasana).
- One should take refuge only in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha.
Mahendran wrote: “So if Mara likes to entice people for pleasures and also doesn’t know about the consequences of such pleasures, does he lack some of those five qualities?”
Of course. The birth as Mara Devaputta was due to good kamma. But Mara himself has bad qualities.
– It is no different from some humans have very bad qualities, i.e., they kill, steal, etc. They also have relatively good births due to PAST ACTIONS.One’s current birth is due to past kamma.
– If one is now engaged in bad kamma, one will get bad births in the future. If one is engaged in good kamma, one will get good births in the future. That is what we all have been doing for an infinite time.
– The problem is that most of those births are bad (in the apayas), because living beings, by nature, tend to do bad things to get sense pleasures.When one realizes this fact, one would try to get out of the rebirth process as explained to Māra himself by upacālā bhikkhunī: “Upacālā Sutta (SN5.7)”
– English translation: “7. Upacala“.1 user thanked author for this post.
Lal
Keymaster@ Mahendran: I can comment on that only if I can read/hear about that reasoning. If you can publish a link, I can take a look at it.
Lal
KeymasterMahendran wrote: “Now the other question that comes to my mind is that how can Mara and other Devas have influence on us? Is it some kind of Devine power? Is it like the belief system of Hinduism where they have so many Gods to whom they worship asking for favours, and offering things with transferring merits? Is it the same Brahma and Deva realms Hinduism refer to as well?”
This “having infleunce” should NOT be looked at as “having power over a human”.
It is more like “being able to persuade”. If you read the thread from the beginning, this is what I have emphasized.For example, when a given person has a weakness for drinking, it is easy to entice him to “have a drink”. When a person has “rough character qualities”, it is easy to get to him to participate in beating a another person, etc.
“Good” Devas and brahmas are attracted to people with moral character.
“Bad” beings of any kind are attracted to people with bad moral character, AND they can make them do more bad things.
– So, not only devas/brahama, but humans also can influence other humans. This is how kids join gangs or become drug addicts, for example. If the parents instill good character qualities in them and teach them morals, they will not be able to be influenced like that.Yeos wrote” “One will never be free from death”…Neither from life ?”
To be free from death in this world is to be free from birth, because any birth in this world of 31 realms leads to death without exception.
1 user thanked author for this post.
February 25, 2019 at 6:05 am in reply to: Post on "Sōtapanna Anugāmi – No More Births in the Apāyās" #22089Lal
KeymasterThanks, Christian.
But it would be good if the Pali version with Akvan’s quote can be found.P.S. I think I just found it. I need some time to go through it:
7. SattakapuggalapaññattiI need to publish a post today and have some travel tomorrow to get ready for. So, it may take a couple of days.
– In the meantime, if anyone can come with a consistent explanation please do so.February 24, 2019 at 8:44 pm in reply to: Post on "Sōtapanna Anugāmi – No More Births in the Apāyās" #22085Lal
KeymasterHi Akvan,
You wrote: “In the Puggala Pannatti ekabījī, kolaṅkolo and sattak¬khat¬tu¬paramo has been explained. Here all three have been explained as “thinnang sanyojananang parikkaya sotapnno hoti…”
Do you have a link for that?
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