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We can say raga, dosa, moha or the mundane versions of alobha, adosa, amoha arise in a mind based on avijja.
- Avijja is eliminated by comprehending that all ‘sensory pleasures’ are mind-made and, thus, are of anicca nature. That anicca nature also leads to dukkha (suffering), and thus attaching to such ‘mind-made sensory pleasures’ are of anatta nature. That leads to the lokottara version of alobha, adosa, amoha.
- One becomes a Sotapanna by seeing the truth of that.
- But a Sotapanna still attaches to those sensory pleasures with tanha and mana. They have eliminated only ditthi. That is why they must cultivate Satipatthana to eliminate tanha and mana. Both of those are are eliminated at the Arahant stage. An Anagami eliminates only part of tanha involving the kama loka; they still have tanha for (mind-made) jhanic/samapatti ‘pleasures’ in rupa and arupa loka. See “Etaṁ Mama, Esohamasmi, Eso Me Attā’ti – Connection to Taṇhā, Māna, Diṭṭhi.”
- Avijja (and tanha, mana, ditthi) is totally eliminated only at the Arahant stage.
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Yes. All rebirths among the 31 realms arise due to six root causes: (i) lobha, dosa, moha on the ‘immoral side’ lead to rebirths in the apāyās, and (ii) mundane versions of alobha, adosa, amoha on the ‘moral side’ lead to rebirths in the rest, which are ‘relatively good.’
- Magga phala can be attained only with lokuttara versions of alobha, adosa, amoha, i.e., based on the comprehension of anicca, dukkha, and anatta nature.
We can clarify this by understanding what is meant by ‘kamma‘ and ‘cetana‘ in the suttas.
1. In the Buddha Dhamma, ‘kamma‘ means actions, speech, and thoughts that are based on raga, dosa, or moha. Only those can lead to vipaka.
- Thus, they include punna kamma, apunna kamma, and akusala kamma.
- Therefore, walking to the kitchen to get a glass of water is not an act of kamma.
- An Arahant offering part of his meal to a hungry person is also not a kamma, since that action was not based on raga, dosa, or moha (even though it would be a punna kamma for a puthujjana).
2. That is also why ‘cetana‘ in the suttas really means ‘ sancetana‘, or ‘intentions rooted in raga, dosa, or moha.’
- See #2 of “Details of Kamma – Intention, Who Is Affected, Kamma Patha.”
- Sañcetanā are ‘defiled intentions,’ and actions, speech, and thoughts based on them are abhisankhara. Thus, only those actions, speech, and thoughts that belong to punna kamma, apunna kamma, and akusala kamma involve abhisankhara. Also see #1 above.
3. Therefore, it is necessary to keep in mind those two issues discussed above when reading suttas.
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4. Therefore, only sankhara (devoid of raga, dosa, or moha) and NOT abhisankhara can arise in an Arahant.
- The same is true for anyone (Sotapanna or above) while their minds are in the Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi. No abhisankhara generation there, either.
5. Please ask further questions if anything is unclear.
You are absolutely correct, Tobias.
- Even ‘puñña kamma‘ (with sobhana cetasika) are done with avijjā.
- I made a mistake there.
- Just below that, I made the correct statement: While in the Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi, one would only examine the steps in Paṭicca Samuppāda or anicca, dukkha, anatta, or the Four Noble Truths. In other words, how the mind becomes defiled, starting with the ‘distorted saññā‘ (various types of kāma saññā in our kāma loka; a ‘rupa loka Brahma‘ would contemplate the role of types of saññā that arise in the rupa loka).
- That does not involve any sobhana cetasika either. In fact, here the paññā cetasika ‘graduates to a ñāna‘ for a Sotapanna, which is the first āsvakkhaya ñāna.
- The transition from the highest levels of vijānāti (with paññā) to pajānātī happens at the Sotāpanna Anugami stage; pajānātī is not a superficial understanding but rather with paññā cakkhu (as a Sotāpanna Anugami), which then turns to ‘dhamma cakkhu’ (at an even higher level of abhijānātī) at the Sotāpanna stage. See #8 and #9 in “Mahāvedalla Sutta – Sañjānātī, Vijānāti, Pajānāti.”
- Thank you for pointing that out. This is why comments are useful.
P.S. When one becomes a Sotapanna (and is actively cultivating the Noble Path), all the mental factors on the mundane eightfold path (i.e., sobhana cetasika) are elevated to lokottara versions. For example, paññā is elevated to the ñāna level, and sati (mundane mindfulness) is elevated to Samma Sati. Of course, that would happen ONLY WHEN a Sotapanna‘s mind is in the Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi (and he/she is actively cultivating the Noble Path). Two other critical mental factors (cetasika), vitakka and vicara, turn to dhamma vitakka/vicara, i.e., critically examining Dhamma concepts.
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Tobias asked: “So are you saying that Vb 6 in the Abhidhamma Pitaka is incorrect and/or was added later?”
- Yes. The Commentaries were probably added later.
- Yes. I am saying certain sections of Vb 6 in the Abhidhamma Pitaka are incorrect.
Tobias asked: “Does that mean the Arahants were mistaken?”
- Those sections, or the Vb 6 in its entirety, may have been added later.
Regarding the questions on cetasika: Bypassing the ‘distorted saññā‘ only blocks avijjā from arising and triggering the initiation of a Paṭicca Samuppāda (or a pañcupādānakkhandha process).
- Thus, only the asobhana cetasika (including lobha, dosa, moha) are blocked from arising.
- The sobhana cetasika are not blocked. In fact, this is when the paññā cetasika can be optimal.
Tobias asked: “I’m still grappling with the question of how one actually thinks without external sensory input and without distorted sanna, or rather, how one arrives at genuine kusala citta? If the mind has no external sensory input (no panca-dvara citta vithi), one can only think about dhammas. In this way, one can have contact with sadhamma and, with appropriate “paccaya,” generate kusala citta and ultimately realize magga phala (e.g., during meditation). Is that correct? But this also requires cetasika; yet it isn’t paṭicca samuppāda?”
- Once the mind is in the Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi, one engages in genuine Vipassanā.
- Here, one would not think about specific external sensory inputs. One would only examine the steps in Paṭicca Samuppāda or anicca, dukkha, anatta, or the Four Noble Truths. In other words, how the mind becomes defiled, starting with the ‘distorted saññā‘ (various types of kāma saññā in our kāma loka; a ‘rupa loka Brahma‘ would contemplate the role of types of saññā that arise in the rupa loka).
- As I explained in the draft post, there is no specific list of kusala kamma. Cultivating kusala means to cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna. A kusala citta is any citta that arises in the Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi, helping the mind to eliminate anusaya/samyojana.
- Of course, what happens in the Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi is not Paṭicca Samuppāda. A Paṭicca Samuppāda process ALWAYS generates new kamma, starting at the ‘purana kamma’ stage. The goal of the practice is to stop Paṭicca Samuppāda (or pañcupādānakkhandha) processes from starting; they do not start in an Arahant, and they do not run for anyone while their mind is in the Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi!
- Whoever wrote those sections in Vb6 did not understand how a Paṭicca Samuppāda process is initiated at the ‘purana kamma‘ stage, triggered by the ‘distorted saññā ‘.
- The following figure from the post “Murderer to a Sotāpanna in an Hour – How Is That Possible?“ could be helpful. No mind contamination in (D):
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I am in the process of rewriting some old posts on kamma and kamma vipaka.
- It is good to understand those two concepts before studying pancakkhandha or pancupadanakkhandha. I will get to that hopefully soon.
- In the meantime, please read the following posts and ask questions if anything is unclear.
Kusala/Akusala And Puñña/Apuñña Kamma | Pure Dhamma
Ten Immoral Actions (Dasa Akusala)
Details Of Kamma – Intention, Who Is Affected, Kamma Patha | Pure Dhamma
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1. The deeper aspects of Buddha’s teachings became clear to me only after I realized the huge role of the ‘distorted saññā.’ For us in ‘kama loka,’ it comes in various types of ‘kama loka saññā’ associated with all sensory inputs coming through our senses.
- With that understanding, I realized that there are no separate sets of ‘vipaka vedana‘ and ‘kamma vedana.’ In the same way, vinnana also cannot be separated into ‘vipaka vinnana‘ and ‘kamma vinnana.‘
- Even my teacher, Waharaka Thero, was also misled by the Tipitaka Commentary “Paṭicca Samuppāda Vibhaṅga.” Such categories are discussed there under ‘Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda.’
- However, the only Paṭicca Samuppāda discussed in the suttas is the Idappaccayātā Paṭicca Samuppāda.
- We know that almost all suttas were delivered by the Buddha. On the other hand, Commentaries (even those included in the Tipitaka) were written later. Therefore, we must give preference to the suttas, especially when there is an inconsistency.
- While the Tipitaka Commentaries are generally reliable, this specific part on ‘Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda’ is in conflict with the suttas.
- I outlined a post recently on this subject, and it provides this background. It is only a draft, and I need to complete it: “Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda – Evidence Against It“
2. The kamma accumulation process starts with a sensory input, and it is triggered by the ‘distorted saññā.’ It happens in two stages: ‘purāna kamma’ and ‘nava kamma’: “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation“
- As pointed out in “Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda – Evidence Against It” the ‘vipaka stage discussed in ‘Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda’ is the ‘purāna kamma’ stage discussed in the suttas.
- Thus, someone had made an error in composing a separate ‘Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda’ in the“Paṭicca Samuppāda Vibhaṅga.”
- Even though I have been revising some posts with the incorrect interpretations, there are still some that require revision. Please keep this in mind when reading old posts. If you see ‘vipaka vedana‘ and ‘kamma vedana‘ or ‘vipaka vinnana‘ and ‘kamma vinnana‘ discussed, those posts need revision. I hope to get to them in time. I just don’t have enough time to get it done quickly.
3. If anyone would like to point out any errors in my interpretations (based on the Tipitaka), I welcome such comments. Please email me ([email protected]) or comment on this thread in the forum.
- Our goal is to sort out the correct teachings of the Buddha. Those teachings have been so much distorted over the years.
P.S. Julian asked for clarity on ‘kama guna.’ The following post could be helpful: “Kāma Guṇa – Origin of Attachment (Tanhā).”
After reviewing the suggested posts above, I realized it is a good idea to write an introductory post tying up Paṭicca Samuppāda and pañcupādānakkhandha. Both are initiated by a sensory event and are affected by the ‘distorted saññā.’ I realized that many people (especially those who are new to this website) are not aware of the role played by the ‘distorted saññā.’
- I will try to do that in a couple of days.
- As I mentioned above, I also need to revise some old posts. I will post any updates here.
I need to rewrite those posts. I will post them here once I do that.
- In the meantime, please read the following recent posts on the subject: “Five Aggregates (Pañcakkhandha)– New Series”
- Please feel free to ask questions about those posts. Please refer to the specific post and the bullet number if that helps to clarify our questions.
P.S. You can edit a comment if done within an hour of the original post. The site administrators (myself and Seng Kiat Ng) can edit a post at any time if requested by the person who posted it. If a correction to a post is needed, please email me: [email protected]
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Hello Julian,
Namarupa is a somewhat complex subject. Can you provide the link(s) to the post(s) that you read on it? I may need to revise them. In some old posts, I may have talked about vipaka vinna and kamma vinnana. But I realized that there is no such distinction. I can revise those posts and address your questions there.
Regarding the second question: Mental images (namarupa) arise first, and then ‘thoughts’ about them arise. So, they are not the same.
- Namarupa are mental constructions. The same object could generate slightly different namarupa in different people.
- That distinction can be significant among different species. For example, while humans see a rainbow with many colors, some animals only see it with fewer colors or in black and white.
Color is not an inherent property of light or objects themselves—both are colorless.
- The ‘color perception’, according to modern science, is explained well in the following video by a physicist.
- At 2.30 minutes, he says the process of how the brain interprets the signals received from the sensors at the back of the retina as ‘red’ is not understood by science.
- That is because ‘color perception’ does not occur in the brain. Data from the brain is sent to the ‘seat of the mind’ (hadaya vatthu), and it is the mind that perceives the ‘color of red’ in strawberries.
In the same way, taste is also mind-made. While humans like the taste of strawberries and don’t like the taste of grass, a cow likes to eat grass and avoid strawberries.
- Modern science has recently confirmed that our experiences with all five physical senses do not tally with reality; i.e., color, taste, etc., are mind-made (scientists say such ‘illusions’ are made by the brain).
- See, for example, “Without ‘Mind-Made’ Perception, World Is Colorless, Soundless, Tasteless, Odorless, and Touchless.”
Regarding your question: “Deaf people must think almost exclusively in images while (almost) blind people may still have some visual thoughts?”
- Deaf people are unaware of sounds. They do not even know anything about sounds. In the same way, those born blind have no perception of ‘sight/visuals’ (they don’t experience the world in ‘black and white’ either; vision is simply missing!).
- They make their decisions based on the other sensory faculties.
- I have firsthand experience of this issue. I had brain surgery to remove a non-malignant tumor from my brain. Before that, I had all my senses working well. During the operation, the nerves connecting the sensors in my nose to my brain got cut, so I don’t smell anything now. That sense faculty is simply absent now.
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The following suttas can help you get a good idea of a ‘Noble Friend‘ or ‘Kalyāṇamitta.’ Here, ‘mitta‘ is a friend, and ‘Kalyāṇa‘ means to ‘help with getting rid of defilements.’
1. “Kalyāṇamitta Sutta (SN 45.63)” states that the only way for a puthujjana to follow that Noble Path is with the help of a Kalyāṇamitta.
- That is because one must learn the ‘previously unheard worldview of a Buddha’ to start on the Path as a Sotapanna. After that, a Sotapanna can do the rest even by himself.
- Of course, the best Kalyāṇamitta is the Buddha himself. However, anyone who has comprehended the ‘previously unheard worldview of a Buddha’ (i.e., anyone above the Sotapanna stage) can be a Kalyāṇamitta.
- In the English translation, @1.4 says that a Kalyāṇamitta is a ‘good friend.’ Obviously, that is wrong. That also gives the false impression that one must be ‘good friends’ with that person on a personal level. That is not the case. One only needs to hear the ‘worldview of a Buddha’ from someone who has comprehended it and can explain it.
2. In the “Upaḍḍha Sutta (SN 45.2)” the Ven. Ananda asked the Buddha whether a Kalyāṇamitta is responsible for ‘half the spiritual life’ of a puthujjana. The Buddha replied that a Kalyāṇamitta is fully responsible.
- That is because one cannot attain the Sotapanna stage (to start on the Noble Path) without a Kalyāṇamitta, as explained above.
- Also see “Sāriputta Sutta (SN 45.3),” which states the same.
- Also see “Kalyāṇamitta Sutta (SN 3.18)” for more details.
3. Furthermore, even the Buddha cannot be a Kalyāṇamitta if the person is not capable of comprehending the teachings.
- For example, Ven. Ananda and bhikkhu Devadatta both became bhikkhus at the same time. They both lived close to the Buddha for many years, listening to almost identical suttas by the Buddha. However, while Ven. Ananda attained the Sotapanna stage quickly and later attained Arahantship, bhikkhu Devadatta never attained the Sotapanna stage. Not only that, but he was reborn in an apaya for injuring the Buddha.
- Thus, even the Buddha could not become a Kalyāṇamitta for bhikkhu Devadatta.
4. I hope you can get a good idea of a Kalyāṇamitta from the above.
- The critical point is that one must not only learn the ‘previously unheard worldview of a Buddha’ but also fully comprehend it.
- The Kalyāṇamitta does not need to be a ‘personal friend’ or even live close by. What is important is: (i) to receive a correct explanation of the ‘worldview of the Buddha’ AND (ii) to comprehend it.
In addition to the above website, there is a new Vietnamese Pure Dhamma website: https://puredhamma.vn
- I added a link to both websites in the secondary menu at the end of each page on puredhamma.net: Pure Dhamma Essays in Vietnamese
- Also note that puredhamma content in several languages (German, Korean, Portuguese, Vietnamese) are available, and the links are in the secondary menu (at the end of each page) on the puredhamma.net website.
Yes. That is correct.
1. However, there should be a slight adjustment to the following paragraph: “Both Arahants and puthujjanas experience kāma saññā, or distorted perception. But the PS process begins only when there are remaining fetters. Therefore, avijjā is the minimum requirement for the start of Paṭicca Samuppāda. And the PS process applies to all sentient beings in samsara.”
It can be re-stated as follows: “Both Arahants and puthujjanas experience kāma saññā, or distorted perception. But the PS process begins only when there are remaining fetters relevant to the loka one is in. The PS process for the three lokās is triggered by the corresponding ‘rāga saṁyojana,’ i.e., kāma rāga saṁyojana for the kāma loka, rupa rāga saṁyojana for the rupa loka, and arupa rāga saṁyojana for the arupa loka.
- For example, even an anariya arupa loka Brahma would have all three types of ‘rāga saṁyojana.‘ However, as long as he is an anariya arupa loka Brahma, avijjā can be triggered only with the arupa rāga saṁyojana.
- In another example, the Paṭicca Samuppāda process for an anariya human without jhāna can be triggered only via the kāma rāga saṁyojana. However, if that anariya human cultivates an anariya jhāna, avijjā cannot be triggered in him via the kāma rāga saṁyojana, but only with the rupa rāga saṁyojana, while he is in a jhāna.
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2. The main point is that having root causes (represented by the three types of saṁyojana in the case above) is not enough to trigger avijjā or initiate a PS process. The relevant conditions must be there too. That is why avijjā cannot be triggered in any Brahma via the kāma rāga saṁyojana as long as they remain in a Brahma realm.
- Of course, if the root causes are not there, then a PS process cannot be triggered by any condition. That holds for an Arahant.
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3. The critical impact of the above discussion is the following. Even if one has all ten saṁyojana intact, generating avijjā requires the triggering of one of the three ‘rāga saṁyojana‘ via one of the three main types of saññā: kāma saññā, rupa loka saññā, or arupa loka saññā.
- That is because a ‘thought process’ or, more correctly, a ‘citta vithi‘ starts at the ‘kāma dhātu,’ rupa dhātu,’ or ‘arupa dhātu‘ stage.
- Consider a human for whom the above process starts at the ‘kāma dhātu‘ stage. If the ‘kāma saññā‘ were not automatically triggered, there would be no condition to cause avijjā and start a PS process.
- For further details, see “What Does ‘Paccayā’ Mean in Paṭicca Samuppāda?,” “Mind ‘Starts’ at the Kāma Dhātu Stage With Kāma Saññā,” and “Critical Role of Saññā in Mind Contamination.”
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Yes. Those are excellent ideas.
1. One cannot get into a university without first completing primary, secondary, and high school, in that order. For you, your decision makes very good sense, to start at “Moral Living and Fundamentals.”
- After that, you can skim through other sections to decide on the next level. The “Living Dhamma” section is a possibility. Since you have a science background, the “Dhamma and Science” section is another possibility.
- Even once one understands the basics, it does not make sense to jump into deep suttas. This is what I have emphasized, especially over the past month or two, and I have started a new series of posts on such a systematic approach: “Buddha Dhamma – Systematic.” You should get there once you have a good idea about the basics.
2. Keeping notes is also an excellent idea.
- That way, you can see how you progress over time. Furthermore, you can keep revising earlier notes as you broaden your knowledge base.
- When I was in school, making notes was part of my learning process. Rather than just reading, concepts sink in better once one starts taking notes.
- P.S. In a way, I am continuing that practice with my study of Buddha Dhamma by writing posts on this website. It takes a lot of effort and study of suttas to write a post. I need to make sure what I write is consistent with the Tipitaka, so I try to cite the relevant suttas. There are many old posts on the website that need revision, but I am driven by trying to extend my understanding. So I keep postponing the rewrite of some old posts.
3. Another thing that could be helpful is to get familiar with the Pali language.
- Some Pali words do not have exact English translations. Many words have different meanings based on the context. See, for example, “Atta – Two Very Different Meanings.”
- It is good to learn to pronounce Pali words, too. In the late 1800s, European scholars adopted a convention to write Pali words in the English alphabet to avoid the words becoming too long. For example, anicca is pronounced ‘anichcha.’ Thus, the ‘ch’ sound is represented by only ‘c.’ Many people are not aware of this. Another example is ‘th’ is represented by only “t.’ Thus, the Pali word ‘gathi’ is written as ‘gati.’ See “‘Tipiṭaka English’ Convention Adopted by Early European Scholars – Part 1.”
- That last post is in the “Historical Background” section. That could be another section of interest.
