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Yes. Those are excellent ideas.
1. One cannot get into a university without first completing primary, secondary, and high school, in that order. For you, your decision makes very good sense, to start at “Moral Living and Fundamentals.”
- After that, you can skim through other sections to decide on the next level. The “Living Dhamma” section is a possibility. Since you have a science background, the “Dhamma and Science” section is another possibility.
- Even once one understands the basics, it does not make sense to jump into deep suttas. This is what I have emphasized, especially over the past month or two, and I have started a new series of posts on such a systematic approach: “Buddha Dhamma – Systematic.” You should get there once you have a good idea about the basics.
2. Keeping notes is also an excellent idea.
- That way, you can see how you progress over time. Furthermore, you can keep revising earlier notes as you broaden your knowledge base.
- When I was in school, making notes was part of my learning process. Rather than just reading, concepts sink in better once one starts taking notes.
- P.S. In a way, I am continuing that practice with my study of Buddha Dhamma by writing posts on this website. It takes a lot of effort and study of suttas to write a post. I need to make sure what I write is consistent with the Tipitaka, so I try to cite the relevant suttas. There are many old posts on the website that need revision, but I am driven by trying to extend my understanding. So I keep postponing the rewrite of some old posts.
3. Another thing that could be helpful is to get familiar with the Pali language.
- Some Pali words do not have exact English translations. Many words have different meanings based on the context. See, for example, “Atta – Two Very Different Meanings.”
- It is good to learn to pronounce Pali words, too. In the late 1800s, European scholars adopted a convention to write Pali words in the English alphabet to avoid the words becoming too long. For example, anicca is pronounced ‘anichcha.’ Thus, the ‘ch’ sound is represented by only ‘c.’ Many people are not aware of this. Another example is ‘th’ is represented by only “t.’ Thus, the Pali word ‘gathi’ is written as ‘gati.’ See “‘Tipiṭaka English’ Convention Adopted by Early European Scholars – Part 1.”
- That last post is in the “Historical Background” section. That could be another section of interest.
New:
Unique Worldview of a Sotāpanna
Revised:
Karaniya Metta Sutta – Metta Bhavana | Pure Dhamma
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The easiest way to see the difference between an ‘external rupa‘ and the corresponding ‘mind-made rupa‘ is as follows, with a sight of an external object.
1. In the above, I wrote: “However, the leaves are not green, and the apples are not red. The colors are added by the mind!”
- It goes even further. Without the mind adding the light and colors, we would not see anything at all. Not even black and white, because those are also colors. It would be as if we were all are born blind.
- However, the sun would still be emitting sunlight. It is just that sunlight is electromagnetic radiation, and there are colors in it. The leaves or the apples do not have colors either, even though the tree with the apples exists too. Everyone should confirm this using their favorite AI bot, such as ChatGPT or Google Gemini.
- The ‘illusion of light and colors’ is added by the mind. This is an amazing fact that is even hard to fathom, as I explained in “Colors Are Mind-Made (Due to Kāma Saññā).”
2. As I have stated many times, even a living Arahant (living the daily life) receives the ‘kama sanna‘ and thus can see the apple tree and the red apples.
- However, when they are in Arahant-phala samapatti (which is equivalent to the time when they attained the Arahant-phala), the mind is free of the ‘kama sanna‘ or any type of sanna associated with the world, i.e., any ‘lokiya sanna.‘ During Arahant-phala samapatti, an Arahant would not see, hear, or otherwise experience anything at all. It would be as if they did not experience the external world at all.
- Once the Buddha was in Arahant-phala samapatti in a hut when there was heavy rain and lightning was flashing, and two people and four oxen were killed nearby. When the Buddha came out of the hut, a large crowd had gathered to see the destruction. They were astonished to hear the Buddha say that he had neither seen nor heard any of it. See “Mahāparinibbāna Sutta (DN 15).”
Yes. It is a great analogy.
- Jaro wrote: “Ultimately, we are craving our own suffering.”
- That is the bottom line.
Here is another way to say that. The Buddha repeatedly stated that our cravings are for things that are not real. The ‘rupa‘ that arises in the mind is unlike anything that exists in the external world.
- For example, there is an apple tree with apples that exists in the world.
- However, the leaves are not green, and the apples are not red. The colors are added by the mind! Of course, the taste is added by the mind, too.
- Honey appears brown and tasty to us. It may not be brown and definitely not tasty for a lion. The lion experiences a world that is totally different from ours. Such illusions are generated through Paticca Samuppada to match the gati (pronounced ‘gathi’) of a human versus that of a lion.
- The unfortunate fact is that the ‘illusion’ of color, taste, smell, etc., are built into us via Paticca Samuppada. That is why it feels so real. Even after attaining Arahanthood, one would feel a watered-down, initial stage of that ‘kama sanna.’ That sanna grows in steps if one has all ten samyojana unbroken.
- Unfortunately, a puthujjana gets the ‘full brunt of it’ with joyful sense arising in the mind! That effect is big enough even for a Sotapanna (who has eliminated only three samyojana), and it takes a real effort to overcome that ‘kama sanna‘ for even a Sotapanna.
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Thank you, Saurabh!
- It could be helpful to read the other thread, where Jaro provided an analogy: “Post on Kāma Is a Pit of Glowing Coals – Dukkhadhamma Sutta.”
- Related post: “Kāma Is a Pit of Glowing Coals – Dukkhadhamma Sutta“
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Thanks, Jaro, for bringing up the Māgandiya Sutta. As you correctly pointed out, it discusses the same two-strong-men analogy as in the Dukkhadhamma Sutta, but embedded within the ‘leper analogy.’
1. The following link points to the verse Jaro referred to: Māgaṇḍiya Sutta (MN 75): ‘Seyyathāpi, māgaṇḍiya, kuṭṭhī puriso arugatto pakkagatto kimīhi khajjamāno nakhehi vaṇamukhāni vippatacchamāno aṅgārakāsuyā kāyaṁ paritāpeyya.’
- The English translation there is, “Suppose there was a person affected by leprosy, with sores and blisters on their limbs. Being devoured by worms, scratching with their nails at the opening of their wounds, they’d cauterize their body over a pit of glowing coals.”
- Thus, ‘kuṭṭhī puriso‘ is translated as ‘a person affected by leprosy.’
- However, I think the word ‘kuṭṭhī‘ refers to something like eczema rash, but much worse; there could be tiny worms inside those sores. That disease kuṭṭhī may no longer exist, and the closest match today could be an ‘eczema rash,‘ where the person would get relief by scratching it. A person with ‘kuṭṭhī‘ would also feel relief by getting the wounds close to a fire/heat.
- I spent some time searching for symptoms of the disease ‘leprosy,‘ and that seems different.
2. The relevant point, as emphasized by Jaro, can be better understood by examining the sutta starting with that verse @marker 13.1.
- A better translation of the above verse is: “Suppose there was a person affected by kuṭṭhī, with sores and blisters on their limbs. Being devoured by worms, they would seek relief by scratching with their nails at the opening of their wounds, and by getting close to a pit of glowing coals.” (In other words, scratching with their nails and getting close to a pit of glowing coals is a ‘pleasure’ for him.)
3. Now, let me provide a better translation for the subsequent verses starting @marker 13.2:
“Their friends and relatives would get a physician to treat the patient. The physician would cure the patient, and the patient would be healthy and happy again.
Then the cured person (X) would see another person (Y) affected by ‘kuṭṭhī, with sores and blisters on their limbs. Being devoured by worms, Y would also seek relief by scratching with their nails at the opening of their wounds, and by getting close to a pit of glowing coals (Y also gets ‘pleasure’ doing those things).
What do you think, Māgaṇḍiya? Would that person X envy that other person Y getting ‘pleasure’ that way?”
“No, worthy Gotama.
Why is that?
Because while X experienced that ‘temporary relief’ only when he had the disease. When there’s no disease, there’s no need to seek relief.”
- The point is that X or Y would have the urge to scratch their sores and seek the heat of a fire only when they are affected by that disease. With the pain they constantly feel, the scratching and heat seem to provide a ‘pleasure.’
4. Then @marker 14.1, the Buddha explained to Māgaṇḍiya: “In the same way, Māgaṇḍiya, when I was still a layperson, I used to entertain myself with sights … sounds …”
- Thus, the Buddha was saying that he had also sought ‘sensual pleasures’ while living the ‘householder life’ before attaining Buddhahood.
5. Thus, the Māgandiya Sutta provides an analogy to illustrate the ‘true nature’ of sensual pleasures.
- When the mind of a puthujjana is burdened with raga, dosa, and moha (i.e., panca nivarana), it is under constant stress (even though a puthujjana does not feel it that way).
- That is why a puthujjana‘s mind is always seeking remedies (sensual pleasures) to ‘calm down’ the stressed mind.
- In other words, a puthujjana is like person Y and the Buddha is like person X (after being cured). There is no need for the Buddha to seek sensual pleasures!
6. I think that is, in essence, what Jaro also tried to explain. I wanted to provide a better translation of the Māgandiya Sutta than the one in the link in #1 above.
- I am glad to see Jaro getting the point!
- P.S. Related post: “Kāma Is a Pit of Glowing Coals – Dukkhadhamma Sutta“
Thank you, DhammaSponge.
- I will wait to hear from others.
I also suggest rereading my comment above from May 23, 2026, at 5:42 pm. The account of Channa discussed there is relevant to the following comment by DhammaSponge:
- “Less people, but still a good amount, will append to that, “However, despite me employing this knowledge and Dhamma, despite the fact that I in real time am doing my best to recognize that this sanna is false, that this experience is simply something that my mind is laminating over to try to make it to my satisfaction, I keep giving in and falling for it.”
Thank you, Saurabh, for your comment.
May be I should formulate a question as follows: If our thoughts, speech, and actions are based on ‘false assumptions about the world,’ can that approach ever lead to a satisfactory outcome?
- Is there anyone who does not believe the following statement? All living beings (except Noble Persons) have false assumptions about the world. One false assumption is to believe there are colorful things in the world; another would be to believe there are tasty foods, and so on.
- I hope more people will make their thoughts known. I promise to take every comment seriously. I have come to realize that I used to take many things as ‘obvious,’ which may not be obvious to others.
1. The requirement to attain the Sotapanna stage is the following:
- One must clearly ‘see with wisdom’ that attachment to sensory inputs in the ‘kama loka‘ (that means attaching to sights, sounds, tastes, smells, and touches) prolongs the rebirth process. Not only that, but such attachment extends the rebirth process within the ‘kama loka‘ (which includes the human realm and also the apayas).
- However, it does not require one to stop attaching to sensory inputs in the ‘kama loka.‘ That happens at the Anagami stage.
- Still, ‘seeing with wisdom’ the dangers of attaching to sensory inputs is enough to avoid engaging in the worst types of akualsa kamma that can lead to rebirths in the apayas (because of the elimination of the three ditthi samyojana).
2. The problem is that it is very hard to pin down how that ‘seeing with wisdom’ happens.
- Some people in the days of the Buddha were able to ‘see with wisdom’ the futility (and dangers, because it can lead to strong akusala kamma leading to rebirths in the apayas) of attachment to sensory inputs in the ‘kama loka,‘ even by listening to a one or two discourses from the Buddha.
- However, these days it has become hard. One reason is that the true teachings are hard to find, and most people are confused by seeing various versions.
- Furthermore, even in the days of the Buddha, there were people who spent many years close to the Buddha, but were unable to attain even the Sotapanna stage. A good example was Devadatta, Princess Yasodhara’s brother, who became a bhikkhu at the same time as Ven. Ananda. He could not grasp the teachings, tried to take the life of the Buddha, and was born in an apaya. That means he never attained the Sotapanna stage.
- Another example was Channa, who accompanied the Buddha (or rather the Bodhisatta, Prince Siddhatta) when Prince Siddhatta left the palace. He became a bhikkhu soon after the Prince attained Buddhahood, but could not attain even the Sotapanna stage until after the Buddha’s Parinibbana. Later on, when he sought advice from Arahants, they told him to contemplate the anicca, dukkha, and anatta nature of attaching to sensory inputs. But he said to himself, “I know all that by heart, but I also know that I have not grasped the Dhamma.” Finally, he sought help from Ven. Ananda. After hearing a discourse from Ven. Ananda, he attained Sotapanna phala. This account is in the “Channa Sutta (SN 22.90)“; The translation there is not great, but one can get the idea.
3. So, it is hard to pin down how that ‘seeing with wisdom’ happens.
- One just has to keep trying to get there.
- I will do my best to answer questions. I will also write more posts to clarify any issues based on forum questions.
- In the next post, I plan to provide some guidelines that could be helpful. One problem we have today is that people don’t know which suttas (or concepts) to study first.
- For example, there is very little benefit in trying to practice Satipatthana before attaining the Sotapanna stage, as I have explained: “Ānāpāna – Adopting Buddha’s Worldview and Discarding ‘Mundane Views’.” However, many people study the Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22) and even try to practice the content before attaining the Sotapanna stage. That is a waste of time, as they should spend that time learning concepts that can help them reach the Sotapanna stage!
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Kāma Is a Pit of Glowing Coals – Dukkhadhamma Sutta
The following is my translation of the “Dukkhadhamma Sutta (SN 35.244).” The link has the Pāli version and the English translation at Sutta Central.
- This short sutta is helpful in clarifying why sensual pleasures (kāma assāda) are not only illusions but also are dangerous. Because based on such ‘mind-made kāma assāda,’ people engage in immoral deeds and are reborn in the apāyās.
- That is why a Noble Person would avoid sensual pleasures in the same way that they would avoid being thrown into a pit of glowing coals. Both lead to unimaginable suffering.
- I have avoided being so direct, but it seems the message would not be understood unless stated in direct terms, without any ambiguity. This short sutta delivers that message.
________________
“Bhikkus, when a Bhikkhu truly understands the origin and stopping of suffering (Noble Truth of Suffering), then they have seen sensual pleasures in such a way that they will have no underlying tendency to seek sensual pleasures.
And they have awakened to a way of conduct and a way of living such that, when they live in that way, immoral qualities of greed (abhijjhā) and displeasure (domanassa) do not arise and overwhelm them.
And how would a Bhikkhu truly understand the origin and stopping of all things that lead to suffering?
‘They understand the true nature of rupa, the origin of rupa, and the stopping of the arising of rupa in the mind. They understand the true nature of vedanā …saññā …saṅkhārā …viññāṇa, the origin of viññāṇa, and the stopping of the arising of viññāṇa.’
(Note that rupa does not refer to ‘external rupa‘ that exists in the external world, but those that arise in the mind when one experiences an external rupa. There is a critical distinction. Any external rupa does not have color, taste, smell, etc. Only a ‘mind-made rupa‘ has those additional ‘made-up qualities.’ See “Colors Are Mind-Made (Due to Kāma Saññā).”)
That’s how a Bhikkhu truly understands the origin and stopping of the arising of all things that lead to suffering.
And how has a Bhikkhu seen sensual pleasures (kāma or kāma assāda) in such a way that they have no underlying tendency for craving sensual pleasures?
Suppose there was a pit of glowing coals deeper than a man’s height, filled with red-hot glowing coals. Then a person would come along who wants to live and does not want to die, who wants to be happy and wants to avoid pain. Suppose two strong men would grab each arm of that man and drag him towards the pit of glowing coals. He will struggle to be freed from them and will want to run away from the pit of glowing coals. For that person knows, ‘If I fall in that pit of glowing coals, that will result in deadly pain and death.’
In the same way, when a Bhikkhu has seen that sensual pleasures are like a pit of glowing coals, they have no desire to seek sensual pleasures.
And how would a Bhikkhu who has understood that live his life?
Suppose a person were to enter a forest full of thorns. He would have thorns before him and behind him, to his left and right, below and above. So he would proceed very slowly and mindfully, avoiding being scraped by those thorns.
Whatever in the world that seems nice and pleasant (giving rise to mind-made pleasures) is called a thorn in the training of the Noble Ones. Understanding that sensual pleasures are like thorns, they should make an effort to avoid them. (This is ‘indriya saṁvara‘ in Buddha’s teachings.)
And how is someone unrestrained, i.e., does not have ‘indriya saṁvara‘?
Take a Bhikkhu who sees a sight with the eyes. If it’s pleasant, they hold on to it, but if it’s unpleasant, they dislike it. (They do not understand that such a like/dislike is automatically triggered by the ‘kāma saññā.’ ) They let their minds run away, as it keeps generating more ‘sense of pleasure/anger’ that can grow to high levels of ‘mind-made joy or anger.’
That is because they do not understand how that kāma saññā was triggered, and how it automatically forced the mind to attach to it. They do not understand the true nature of such mind-made pleasures (tañca cetovimuttiṁ paññāvimuttiṁ yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti).
(This triggering of kāma saññā with any sensory input only generates a ‘slight liking’ or ‘manāpa‘ initially. The intense feeling of ‘joy’ a puthujjana may experience is totally mind-made. An Arahant would only feel that initial ‘slight liking.’ Thus, kāma assāda in a puthujjana is fully mind-made. It is critical to understand that: “Kāma Assāda and Pain Are Mostly Mind-Made.” )
Then that verse is repeated for the other five senses: sound with the ears, smell with the nose, taste with the tongue, touch with the body, and memory with the mind. A puthujjana without ‘indriya saṁvara‘ would attach to all those, thinking those are ‘real pleasures.’
This is how a puthujjana does not have ‘indriya saṁvara.‘
And how would someone have ‘indriya saṁvara‘?
Take a Bhikkhu who sees a sight with the eyes. If it’s pleasant, they do not hold on to it, but if it’s unpleasant, they do not dislike it. (They do understand that such a like/dislike is automatically triggered by the ‘kāma saññā.’ ) They DO NOT let their minds run away, to keep generating more ‘sense of pleasure/anger’ that can grow to high levels of ‘mind-made joy or anger.’
Then that verse is repeated for the other five senses: sound with the ears, smell with the nose, taste with the tongue, touch with the body, and memory with the mind.
This is how a Noble Person (one with a magga phala) would have ‘indriya saṁvara.‘
However, while that Bhikkhu is conducting themselves and living in this way, it is possible that immoral thoughts arise every so often due to loss of mindfulness. They establish mindfulness without delay and quickly eliminate those undesired thoughts.
How fast they must get rid of such thoughts can be indicated by the following analogy. Suppose there was an iron cauldron that had been heated all day, and a person let two or three drops of water fall onto it. Those water drops quickly dry up and evaporate.
In the same way, perhaps while that Bhikkhu is conducting themselves and living in indriya saṁvara, unskillful thoughts arise every so often due to loss of mindfulness. They quickly give up and get rid of such thoughts.
This is how a Bhikkhu has awakened to indriya saṁvara, do not let sensory distractions overwhelm them. (Note: This is how a Sotapanna cultivates Satipaṭṭhāna. Once it is completed, they attain Arahanthood. After that, an Arahant‘s mind automatically stops any attachment to any sensory input.)
While that Bhikkhu conducts themselves in this way and lives in this way, others (like their relatives or family) would try to entice them back to the ‘householder life’, saying, “Come, return to the householder life, enjoy wealth!’
But it is quite impossible for a Bhikkhu who conducts themselves in this way and lives in this way to resign the training and return to a lesser householder life.
That can be explained with the following analogy. Suppose that, although the Ganges river flows to the east, a large crowd were to come along with spades and other tools, saying: ‘We’ll make this Ganges river flow to the west!’
What do you think, Bhikkhus? Would they still succeed?”
“No, Bhante.
Why is that?
The Ganges river flows to the east. It is not easy to make it flow westward. That large crowd will eventually get frustrated and give up that effort.”
“In the same way, that Bhikkhu conducts himself in this way and stays away from sensual pleasures only because he has understood that they are devoid of any value and are mind-made illusions.’ It is impossible to reverse that understanding.
So it’s impossible for them to return to a lesser, householder life.”
Kāma Is a Pit of Glowing Coals – Dukkhadhamma Sutta
The following is my translation of the “Dukkhadhamma Sutta (SN 35.244).” The link has the Pāli version and the English translation at Sutta Central.
- This short sutta is helpful in clarifying why sensual pleasures (kāma assāda) are not only illusions but also are dangerous. Because based on such ‘mind-made kāma assāda,’ people engage in immoral deeds and are reborn in the apāyās.
- That is why a Noble Person would avoid sensual pleasures in the same way that they would avoid being thrown into a pit of glowing coals. Both lead to unimaginable suffering.
- I have avoided being so direct, but it seems the message would not be understood unless stated in direct terms, without any ambiguity. This short sutta delivers that message.
________________
“Bhikkus, when a Bhikkhu truly understands the origin and stopping of suffering (Noble Truth of Suffering), then they have seen sensual pleasures in such a way that they will have no underlying tendency to seek sensual pleasures.
And they have awakened to a way of conduct and a way of living such that, when they live in that way, immoral qualities of greed (abhijjhā) and displeasure (domanassa) do not arise and overwhelm them.
And how would a Bhikkhu truly understand the origin and stopping of all things that lead to suffering?
‘They understand the true nature of rupa, the origin of rupa, and the stopping of the arising of rupa in the mind. They understand the true nature of vedanā …saññā …saṅkhārā …viññāṇa, the origin of viññāṇa, and the stopping of the arising of viññāṇa.’
(Note that rupa does not refer to ‘external rupa‘ that exists in the external world, but those that arise in the mind when one experiences an external rupa. There is a critical distinction. Any external rupa does not have color, taste, smell, etc. Only a ‘mind-made rupa‘ has those additional ‘made-up qualities.’ See “Colors Are Mind-Made (Due to Kāma Saññā).”)
That’s how a Bhikkhu truly understands the origin and stopping of the arising of all things that lead to suffering.
And how has a Bhikkhu seen sensual pleasures (kāma or kāma assāda) in such a way that they have no underlying tendency for craving sensual pleasures?
Suppose there was a pit of glowing coals deeper than a man’s height, filled with red-hot glowing coals. Then a person would come along who wants to live and does not want to die, who wants to be happy and wants to avoid pain. Suppose two strong men would grab each arm of that man and drag him towards the pit of glowing coals. He will struggle to be freed from them and will want to run away from the pit of glowing coals. For that person knows, ‘If I fall in that pit of glowing coals, that will result in deadly pain and death.’
In the same way, when a Bhikkhu has seen that sensual pleasures are like a pit of glowing coals, they have no desire to seek sensual pleasures.
And how would a Bhikkhu who has understood that live his life?
Suppose a person were to enter a forest full of thorns. He would have thorns before him and behind him, to his left and right, below and above. So he would proceed very slowly and mindfully, avoiding being scraped by those thorns.
Whatever in the world that seems nice and pleasant (giving rise to mind-made pleasures) is called a thorn in the training of the Noble Ones. Understanding that sensual pleasures are like thorns, they should make an effort to avoid them. (This is ‘indriya saṁvara‘ in Buddha’s teachings.)
And how is someone unrestrained, i.e., does not have ‘indriya saṁvara‘?
Take a Bhikkhu who sees a sight with the eyes. If it’s pleasant, they hold on to it, but if it’s unpleasant, they dislike it. (They do not understand that such a like/dislike is automatically triggered by the ‘kāma saññā.’ ) They let their minds run away, as it keeps generating more ‘sense of pleasure/anger’ that can grow to high levels of ‘mind-made joy or anger.’
That is because they do not understand how that kāma saññā was triggered, and how it automatically forced the mind to attach to it. They do not understand the true nature of such mind-made pleasures (tañca cetovimuttiṁ paññāvimuttiṁ yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti).
(This triggering of kāma saññā with any sensory input only generates a ‘slight liking’ or ‘manāpa‘ initially. The intense feeling of ‘joy’ a puthujjana may experience is totally mind-made. An Arahant would only feel that initial ‘slight liking.’ Thus, kāma assāda in a puthujjana is fully mind-made. It is critical to understand that: “Kāma Assāda and Pain Are Mostly Mind-Made.” )
Then that verse is repeated for the other five senses: sound with the ears, smell with the nose, taste with the tongue, touch with the body, and memory with the mind. A puthujjana without ‘indriya saṁvara‘ would attach to all those, thinking those are ‘real pleasures.’
This is how a puthujjana does not have ‘indriya saṁvara.‘
And how would someone have ‘indriya saṁvara‘?
Take a Bhikkhu who sees a sight with the eyes. If it’s pleasant, they do not hold on to it, but if it’s unpleasant, they do not dislike it. (They do understand that such a like/dislike is automatically triggered by the ‘kāma saññā.’ ) They DO NOT let their minds run away, to keep generating more ‘sense of pleasure/anger’ that can grow to high levels of ‘mind-made joy or anger.’
Then that verse is repeated for the other five senses: sound with the ears, smell with the nose, taste with the tongue, touch with the body, and memory with the mind.
This is how a Noble Person (one with a magga phala) would have ‘indriya saṁvara.‘
However, while that Bhikkhu is conducting themselves and living in this way, it is possible that immoral thoughts arise every so often due to loss of mindfulness. They establish mindfulness without delay and quickly eliminate those undesired thoughts.
How fast they must get rid of such thoughts can be indicated by the following analogy. Suppose there was an iron cauldron that had been heated all day, and a person let two or three drops of water fall onto it. Those water drops quickly dry up and evaporate.
In the same way, perhaps while that Bhikkhu is conducting themselves and living in indriya saṁvara, unskillful thoughts arise every so often due to loss of mindfulness. They quickly give up and get rid of such thoughts.
This is how a Bhikkhu has awakened to indriya saṁvara, do not let sensory distractions overwhelm them. (Note: This is how a Sotapanna cultivates Satipaṭṭhāna. Once it is completed, they attain Arahanthood. After that, an Arahant‘s mind automatically stops any attachment to any sensory input.)
While that Bhikkhu conducts themselves in this way and lives in this way, others (like their relatives or family) would try to entice them back to the ‘householder life’, saying, “Come, return to the householder life, enjoy wealth!’
But it is quite impossible for a Bhikkhu who conducts themselves in this way and lives in this way to resign the training and return to a lesser householder life.
That can be explained with the following analogy. Suppose that, although the Ganges river flows to the east, a large crowd were to come along with spades and other tools, saying: ‘We’ll make this Ganges river flow to the west!’
What do you think, Bhikkhus? Would they still succeed?”
“No, Bhante.
Why is that?
The Ganges river flows to the east. It is not easy to make it flow westward. That large crowd will eventually get frustrated and give up that effort.”
“In the same way, that Bhikkhu conducts himself in this way and stays away from sensual pleasures only because he has understood that they are devoid of any value, lead to dangerous outcomes, and are mind-made illusions.’ It is impossible to reverse that understanding.
So it’s impossible for them to return to a lesser, householder life.”
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DhammaSponge wrote: “If I was to take what you say and make it into something like that, I would think, “note the input, recognize the sanna, realize it causes avijja, note its unreliability.”
- That sounds like you plan to control your thoughts willfully.
- However, that would not be much different from what ancient yogis like Alara Kalama tried.
- First, one must understand the mechanism of kamma generation. It happens in two stages: (i) ‘purana kamma‘ stage or ‘initial kamma generation process.’ (ii) Only the second stage of ‘nava kamma‘ generation that happens willfully (with kaya, vaci, and mano kamma) is controllable. That is what is key to ‘understanding Buddha’s worldview.’
- Of course, one must try to control the second stage at all times. However, until one stops the automatic arising of the ‘purana kamma‘ stage, elimination of the ‘kama raga samyojana‘ is not possible. That happens in two stages: First, one understands the details of the ‘purana kamma‘ stage, i.e., how attachment to the ‘kama sanna‘ automatically moves the mind to the ‘purana kamma‘ stage. With that understanding, one first removes the three ditthi samyojana and attains the Sotapanna stage. Only after that can one eliminate the ‘kama raga samyojana‘ and attain the Anagami stage to stop any sensual/angry thoughts from arising. I explained that in my previous comments on this thread.
- You can start with the post “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
- Also, you may want to read this thread from the beginning again, carefully.
- After that, you can start reading posts in the section: “Buddha Dhamma.” If you start taking notes, that will be very helpful. There are many different, but related concepts to learn. As I have emphasized, learning concepts plays a key role in getting to the Sotapanna stage. Formal meditation begins when one becomes a Sotapanna and cultivates Satipatthana to attain the Sakadagami/Anagami stages.
- I am not saying this can be done quickly by reading a few posts; it will take a real effort.
