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“Three potential explanations:
- Frog attained jhana
- Frog attained samadhi (which is not regular state of mind that you can set yourself up thru emotions, but doubt as this takes one effort)
- Frog was at the end of bhava and things happen because of good kamma of the frog.”
None of those can or need to explain the observations.
- A being in an apaya (including animals) cannot cultivate jhana.
- A being in an apaya (including animals) cannot cultivate samadhi.
- The frog was in the kama bhava. In becoming a Deva, there was no “change of bhava.” Both the frog and the Deva are in the “kama bhava.” The frog only changed the realm from the animal realm to the Deva realm, and both are within the kama bhava.
That is what I explained in my comment (#46257) above. But since it is a bit deeper (and complex) situation, let me further clarify:
- Animals and humans have this unique situation where there is a “dense physical body” shielding the subtle “manomaya kaya” (gandhabba). Thus, normally a change in the gati of the gandhabba cannot lead to a change of the realm within the kama bhava. But in the case of the frog, for example, the gati changed from “frog gati” to a “Deva gati” due to the change of the mindset triggered by listening to the Buddha’s voice. If the frog had not died quickly enough BEFORE that “Deva gati” changed back to the “frog gati,” it would not become a Deva.
- The second point is that a frog becoming a Brahma is impossible since “Brahma gati” requires the cultivation of jhana, and a frog or any being in an apaya cannot cultivate jhanas or generate “jhanic cittas.“
- Any living being without a “dense physical body” shielding the “manomaya kaya” will be instantaneously changed, according to gati. For example, Devas do not have such a second “dense body” in addition to the fine Deva body they are born with. Thus, if a Deva generates hateful thoughts, that Deva can be instantly reborn in a lower realm since that is a significant change of gati.
Please feel free to ask questions if that is not clear.
Thank you, Dieu!
Yash RS wrote: “Yes. The video is not correct in that aspect. Just because she had dosa in her mind at the moment of death of her PHYSICAL BODY does not matter.”
- What video are you referring to?
That is a good question.
The answer could be the following. A cuti-patisandhi moment is defined as a change in bhava.
- There are only three categories of bhava: kama bhava (including all 11 realsm in kama loka: four apayas, human realm, and the six Deva realms), rupa bhava (20 rupavacara Brahma realms), and arupa bhava (4 arupavacara Brahma realms). See “Bhava Sutta (SN 45. 164).”
- In both of the above cases, there was no change change in bhava. Both the animal realms and the Deva realms are within the kama bhava. Also, see “Gati Sutta (AN 9.68).”
The critical point is that both animals’ gati changed momentarily, and before the gati changed back to their original “animal gati” they died, and the gandhabba that came out with the new gati instantly transformed to match the “better gati” prevailing that that moment.
- Even though anyone’s gati can change like that, the physical body prevents the gandhabba from transforming to acquire the new gati. But if the gandhabba comes out (due to the physical body being dead), it will instantly transform according to the gati at the moment.
- This reply was modified 13 hours, 52 minutes ago by Lal.
Questions from Yash RS:
“So does it mean that if a person has committed many bad kamma, he or she will not end up in the apaya unless the human bhava is exhausted?”
- Yes. One’s bhava does not change until its kammic energy is exhausted.
“Do the bad kammas not exhaust the human bhava?”
- No. In the same way, good kammas do not extend the bhava either.
- However, a bhava can be “broken” before the end of its kammic energy in the case of an anantarika kamma. There are bad anantarika kamma (like killing one’s parents) that will result in being born in an apaya upon the death of the current human body. There are also good anantarika kamma (like cultivating an Ariya/anariya jhana) that result in being born in a Brahma realm at the death of the current human body.
“Also, having sex before marriage is a bad kamma? If yes then why is it so? Is it a sexual misbehaviour?”
- Yes. It is a bad kamma, but not a strong one that can lead to rebirth by itself. It is like stealing.
“There is sutta when Buddha say even “good” people to lower realms and “bad” people go to higher realms.”
More information: “Ānantarika Kamma – Connection to Gandhabba” and “What is Kamma? – Is Everything Determined by Kamma?”
- Yes. It is “Mahākammavibhaṅga Sutta (MN 136)” A little better translation is “136. The Great Exposition of Kamma.”
Also, some people think that niraya (loosely translated as “hell”) is not real and is made up by others and not explained by the Buddha.
- The Buddha has emphasized the unbearable suffering in the niraya in several suttas. See, for example, “Devadūta Sutta (MN 130)”
Yes. The video is not correct in that aspect. Just because she had dosa in her mind at the moment of death of her PHYSICAL BODY does not matter.
1. The death of the physical human body is not the end of the human bhava (existence). Human bhava can last hundreds of thousands of years. In between having physical bodies, the same human gandhabba may live a long time. The length of the human bhava depends on each person.
2. Switching to another bhava (whether in niraya or any other like Brahma) happens ONLY at the end of the human bhava, i.e., at the end of the lifetime of the human gandhabba. Enter “gandhabba” into the search box on the top right and read some posts.
3. But there are exceptions when a human bhava can end before the end of the lifetime of the human gandhabba. That is in the case of one who committed an anantarika kamma, like killing a parent, injuring an Arahant, injuring a Budha, etc. Again, read on “anantarika kamma.” For example, Devadatta’s life ended when he was reborn in hell (niraya) when he injured the Buddha.
Thank you both for the comments.
I think Christian’s point could be the following: The video shows the unfortunate girl dying due to her attempted abortion effort and immediately being born in hell.
- I agree that is unlikely. Unless it is an anantarika kamma (or one has exhausted all kammic energy for the human bhava), one will not be released from the human bhava to another bhava at the moment of death.
- Since she died at an early age due to an accident, it is unlikely that she had exhausted all kammic energy for her human bhava. Thus, her human gandhabba should come out of the dead body without changing the bhava to a lower one.
Do you agree with the following statements:
1. When encountering an “unpleasurable situation/sensory input,” an average human (puthujjana) knows only two responses: (i) to try to avoid it or (ii) to compensate for it by seeking a ‘pleasurable sensory input.’
2. An average human becomes a Sotapanna when realizing that the above mindset does not get one to be free of suffering. The above mindset only prolongs suffering in the rebirth process.
3. A Sotapanna also realizes that the way to be suffering-free is to detach from “worldly pleasures” gradually.
I explained this in the recent post: “Anicca Nature- Chasing Worldly Pleasures Is Pointless.”
You stated: “In my opinion Sotapanna is the person who eradicated his/her clinging towards his/her personality.”
- What you meant in the above statement is not clear. Is that close to what I summarized above?
- If not, please further clarify your statement. What kind of changes would a Sotapanna make in the personality to remove future suffering in the rebirth process?
Thank you very much, Jaro, for the update.
- Yes. I agree with your analysis.
- We should be able to make our lives easier with this new technology. But it may take a bit more development to make it easier to use.
- Even though AI will never become sentient, it will revolutionize the world just like the internet did. For example, “self-driving cars” will be practical soon, even though that does not mean the car’s AI system is sentient.
- Please keep us updated on new developments. It is good to have specialists helping us understand things better.
Thanks and Merit to both of you for your comments. Christian, it is good to see you at the forum after a while.
The issue in question is a valid one. There are countless abortions taking place today.
- Taking any life must be avoided. However, taking a human life is MUCH worse than killing an animal. That is because it is very difficult to get a human life. Even after being born in the human realm (as a human gandhabba), one must be born with a physical body (with a brain) to be able to understand complex issues, especially Buddha Dhamma.
- Having a physical human with a brain is important because the brain slows down our responses to external sensory inputs. That and the presence of the neocortex in the brain gives a human a unique ability to think while responding to such external stimuli. That makes it possible to change our gati (habits/character). See “Truine Brain: How the Mind Rewires the Brain via Meditation/Habits.”
- Thus, while it is extremely rare for a birth in the human realm, it is even more difficult to be born with a physical body. That is why killing a fetus is much worse than even killing thousands of animals.
- See “Buddhist Explanations of Conception, Abortion, and Contraception” and “Cloning and Gandhabba” for details on how a baby is conceived.
- Most people today think a baby is not “human” until it is born after nine months in a womb. In fact, many are trying to legalize abortion even to the last day and even just after the baby is born. That is immoral and is a heinous crime, just like killing an adult. A human life (gandhabba) must enter a womb before a baby can start to grow.
- P.S. Buddha Dhamma does not condone having sex before marriage. But if one must have sex, it is easy to avoid getting pregnant by using condoms. Once a gandhabba enters a womb, that baby’s life is no different than any other human life.
- This reply was modified 1 week ago by Lal.
The word “saññamessanti” does not appear in that verse. The correct term is “saṁyamissanti“:
Translations in the Darisworld and Sutta Central versions are good enough to get the basic idea.
- Basically, the verse says our mind (thoughts) can travel far, even though the seat of the mind (in the gandhabba kaya) is trapped inside our physical body (referred to as a “cave” in the verse).
Sorry. I almost missed this question.
There can be no “direct translation” (i.e., word to word) of anicca, dukkha, or anatta to ANY language.
- But they can explained in any language by a person who is fluent in that language AND has also understood the meanings of those words. On this website, I have many posts trying to explain each of those words in English. See “Anicca, Dukkha, Anatta.”
- So, if someone is fluent is Japanese and has understood the meanings of those words, they can explain the meanings in Japanese.