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Let me answer your specific questions by quoting them.
1. “So my question is that, is it the case that these jhanas/samapattis are not there after arahant gets separated from 31 realms, simply because they are not required/necessary anymore?”
- The point is that jhanas are associated with (or related to) the 16 rupa loka Brahma realms. In the same way, samapattis are related to the 4 arupa loka Brahma realms. For example, those humans who cultivate jhanas in born in one of the 16 rupa loka Brahma realms, and those who cultivate samapattis will be reborn in one of the 4 arupa loka Brahma realms.
- Therefore, those 20 realms are part of the world. The 31 realms in the world include 11 other realms in kama loka (with the 4 apayas, human realm, and 6 Deva realms).
- When one attains Arahanthood, one will be released from rebirths in all 31 realms. When the Arahant dies, they will not be reborn in any realm; it is the end of the cycle of rebirths and the end of even a trace of suffering.
- Furthermore, while it is good to cultivate jhanas or samapattis, they are not necessary to attain any magga phala, including Arahanthood. See my comment on February 25, 2026 at 5:56 am in “Vipassanā Methods.”
2. “Basically I am asking is that, is the reason for jhanas/samapattis not being there after separation from 31 realms of existence is just that, they are not required anymore? “
- Yes. See the last bullet point above.
- Many have attained even Arahanthood without attaining jhana. The majority of Arahants belong to that category of paññāvimutti Arahants; see “Pannāvimutti – Arahanthood without Jhāna.”
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“1. What if a person has been meditating for many years but is not able to get into jhana?”
- It is not necessary to be able to get into a jhana to make progress on the Noble Path and to attain magga phala.
- Jhanas correspond to mental states of Brahmas in various realms of rupa loka. Getting to a jhana is an anatariya kamma (good one) that guarantees one of rebirth in a Brahma realm. So, it is not bad. However, unless that person has attained at least the Sotapanna stage, he/she will return to the human realm at the end of that Brahma existence and can then be reborn in an apaya; i.e., cultivating a jhana does not free one from future rebirths in an apaya.
- Thus, one should focus on attaining the Sotapanna stage rather than jhana. Some people attain jhana even without trying, and that would be a bonus.
” 2. Is just remaining in jhana meditating, in light of that only an arahat has broken the 6th and 7th fetters (basically craving brahmaloka) so even an anagami will have attachment for jhana?”
- Fetters (samyojana) are broken in a stepwise manner. One breaks the first three (sakkaya ditthi, vicikiccha, silabbata paramasa) when one attains the Sotapanna stage. Then they break the kama raga and patigha samyojana to attain the Anagami stage (those two samyojana are only weakened at the Sakadagami stage, which a Sotapanna would attain before the Anagami stage). The 6th and 7th samyojana (rupa raga and arupa raga) can be broken only by an Anagami. An Anagami attains the Arahant stage by eliminating three more samyojana (mana, uddacca, avijja). So, an Arahant has broken not only the 6th and 7th, but all ten samyojana.
- One with any jhana has not broken any samyojana unless they had also attained a magga phala, Sotapanna through the Arahant stage.
” 3. What if a person meditates but fails completely to make any progress, or does not know how to identify progress?”
- This is why it is good to understand the “Sabbāsava Sutta (MN 2)” I referred to in my previous comment. I will try to address that in the post. It may take a couple of weeks to write that post.
- In the meantime, everyone is welcome to read the sutta and ask any questions they would like clarified.
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P.S. By the way, one attains the Sotapanna stage by completing step (i) in the sutta (first section of the sutta) that I stated in my previous comment as follows:
(i) First, one must engage in contemplation to grasp the key concepts og Buddha’s worldview; this is ‘Dassanā pahātabba‘ or ‘getting rid (pahātabba) of wrong views (Dassanā).’ This is the first section of the sutta on ‘Defilements Given Up by Seeing.’
Yes. I think it is time to write a new post on mediation. I will try to base it on the “Sabbāsava Sutta (MN 2)” because it lays out the key ideas.
Basically, meditation can be divided into three categories:
(i) First, one must engage in contemplation to grasp the key concepts og Buddha’s worldview; this is ‘Dassanā pahātabba‘ or ‘getting rid (pahātabba) of wrong views (Dassanā).’ This is the first section of the sutta on ‘Defilements Given Up by Seeing.’
(ii) Then one must prepare the environment/conditions suitable to engage in ‘Bhāvanā.‘ These are discussed in sections 2 through 6.
(iii) Engage in ‘Bhāvanā‘ (actual meditation) is discussed in Section 7 (last section) of the sutta.
- I invite all to post comments/suggestions. I can write the post based on those.
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P.S. I saw Tetsuo’s comment after I posted my comment. Yes. Those are valid comments. But I think the sutta‘s analysis may help with some ideas.
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Yes. It is all about ‘how suffering is initiated/maintained’ and how ‘it can be stopped.’
- The critical point is that ‘suffering’ does not mean the ‘feeling of discomfort or pain’ at that moment.
- It is about ‘suffering in the rebirth process.’
- Thus, even if the feeling experienced at that moment is a ‘sukha vedana,’ attaching to it will still maintain the rebirth process. It will never stop ‘future suffering.’
- But that does mean one must avoid all ‘sukha vedana.’ Initially, one must stop doing akusala kamma based on attachment to such sukha vedana. However, as one comprehends more of the ‘anicca nature’ of trying to get more of such sukha vedana, one will avoid excess sukha vedana and try to live a simple life.
- Also, there is no point in subjecting oneself willingly to ‘dukha vedana‘ either. After all, the goal is to stop all ‘dukha vedana.’
The Buddha explained how suffering arises (dukkha samudaya; related to samudaya dhamma in the verse) and how it can be stopped (dukkha nirodha; related to nirodha dhamma in the verse).
- As long as the rebirth process continues, suffering does not stop. Of course, there can be bouts of pleasure within that time, for example, when born in a Deva/ Brahma realm (even some humans suffer much less than most humans). However, most rebirths are in lower realms (apayas), and that cannot be stopped until one at least comprehends dukkha samudaya.
- A key aspect of dukkha samudaya is the ‘seed for attachment to sensory inputs.’ That is the ‘kāma saññā‘ (perception of sensory attractions). We would not attach to sensory inputs unless they have colors, tastes, smells, pleasing sounds, or touch (sex included). But the Buddha taught (and modern science confirms) that things in the world do not have those attractive features; i.e., they are ‘mirages’; they are made up by the mind (or, scientists say, by the brain). See “Human Life is Unlivable in a ‘Colorless’ World.”
- That understanding is the key to dukkha nirodha. One becomes a Sotapanna by ‘seeing that clearly.’ (dassanaṁ suvisuddhaṁ in the verse).
I hope you get the idea. Please feel free to ask questions. Of course, it must be explained in detail, for example, how dukkha samudaya is maintained with each attachment to a sensory event via Paṭicca Samuppāda, starting with ‘avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra.’ That step is initiated with the mirage of a ‘kāma saññā.‘
- See “What Does “Paccayā” Mean in Paṭicca Samuppāda?“
- Once that is understood, one’s mind would never be ‘fooled’ by the mirage of ‘kāma saññā,‘ and one becomes a Sotapanna. However, a Sotapanna has not yet eliminated the tendency to attach to such ‘kāma saññā,‘ i.e., kāma rāga. That happens after cultivating Satipaṭṭhāna, and then one becomes an Anāgāmi.
We wish you well in your efforts. May the Blessings of the Triple Gem be with you in your efforts! Theruwan Saranayi!
- However, regarding your comment: ” So for now I will continue practicing mindfulness in daily life without worrying too much about resolving every philosophical question immediately.”
- The question of whether ‘colors’ are present in the external world is not a philosophical issue, if you intended to say that.
- First of all, it is an established scientific fact that ‘colors’ are NOT present in the external world. However, most scientists and philosophers are on the wrong track, trying to explain how the ‘perception of color’ arose through evolution.
- The ‘perception of color’ (and taste, smell, touch, etc., that also lead to a ‘pleasure sensation’) ARE built into our bodies via Paticca Samuppada. One becomes a Sandiṭṭhiko (Sotapanna) by comprehending that: “Sandiṭṭhiko – What Does It Mean?“
“If everything is conditioned, even thoughts and wisdom, is there such a thing as free action?”
1. Good question. This question gets to the heart of the distinction between the ‘purana kamma‘ and ‘nava kamma‘ stages.
- The ‘purana kamma‘ stage, especially at the beginning, runs on ‘auto pilot’ without thinking, and is controlled by two things: (i) the number of unbroken samyojana one has (at the very beginning in the ‘purana kamma‘ stage), and (ii) one’s mindset (gati, pronounced ‘gathi’) at that moment (toward the middle of the ‘purana kamma‘ stage). Therefore, controlling this process requires comprehension of the ‘purana kamma‘ stage.
- On the other hand, we become aware of our thoughts in the ‘nava kamma‘ stage, and thus are able to control them. This is where we do mano, vaci, and kaya kamma (dasa akusala) with intention.
- One must live a moral life controlling the ‘nava kamma‘ stage, while learning Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana to eliminate samyojana and gati in the ‘purana kamma‘ stage.
- I described the basic idea in “Kamma Nirodha – How Does It Happen?“
2. You wrote, “I learn better through discussion rather than reading long paragraphs.”
- If you understand Sinhala, the following discussion could help understand the ‘purana kamma‘ and ‘nava kamma‘ stages (they have more): “බුදු දහම, මාර්ග ඵල සහ මග වැඩීම“.
- I referred to it in #6 of the post “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
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Yes. Tackling the third is harder, but can be done once the ‘complete sequence of kamma generation‘ (the same as the suffering generation) is understood.
- That is what a Buddha teaches, and what we need to understand.
- Our mind is in autopilot in the ‘purāna kamma‘ stage. Even though we cannot directly control it, once the complete process is understood, it can be controlled.
- First, we must control kamma generation in the ‘nava kamma‘ stage (abstaining from dasa akusala) and, simultaneously, spend time understanding the ‘purāna kamma‘ stage. That second part is the ‘real meditation’ or Vipassanā.
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Yes. The meanings can be derived in several ways.
1. I am glad that I asked you about your understanding of the “purāna kamma” and “nava kamma” stages. I normally respond to comments, thinking that the questioner is familiar with the current posts on the website.
- I first discussed those two stages over two years ago: “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
- However, some background material was covered even before that. You can see the progression in “New / Revised Posts.”
2. However, I recently (January 3, 2026) started a new series of posts to get to the same point with a different approach: “Buddha Dhamma.”
- May be you can start with the new section. Of course, you can first read “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation” and try to see whether you can grasp it, by also perusing through posts in “New / Revised Posts” from late 2023.
3. Please spend some time along the above lines. Once you have some idea, you can start asking questions by citing any specific post.
- A key aspect is understanding the concept of saññā. See, for example, “Saññā – What It Really Means.”
- Maybe you can read that post first and ask questions about anything unclear.
- Please don’t be intimidated by the sheer number of posts. Once you make a connection (the ‘ahā moment’ can come at any time!) and get started, things will become clearer. The only way to learn is to spend time and ask questions about anything that’s unclear.
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You are correct. I have revised that part of #3 of “Kusala/Akusala and Puñña/Apuñña Kamma” as follows:
- Rebirths in the 16 rupaloka Brahma realms require cultivation of bhāvanā in addition to dāna and sila. Those who cultivate jhāna are reborn in the 16 rupa loka Brahma realms, and those who go beyond that and cultivate arupa samāpatti are reborn in the 4 arupa loka Brahma realms. (However, bhāvanā in Buddha Dhamma, for a Noble Person above the Sotapanna Anugāmi stage, means cultivating Satipaṭṭhāna: “Bhāvanā Sutta (AN 7.71).” Also see “Mindfulness, Wisdom, and Reducing Unwholesome Emotions in Daily Life“)
Tobias asked: “It seems that Bhavana is valued more highly than Dana and Sila. Can one conclude from this that people who are good at meditating have also sufficiently cultivated Sila and Dana? Or, put another way, is Bhavana only possible if Sila and Dana are sufficiently cultivated?”
- Yes. That is why I revised the post as above.
- For example, ancient yogis (such as Ālāra Kālāma and Uddaka Rāmaputta) attained jhāna by cultivating dāna, sila, and bhāvanā. Yet, they did not know how to cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna to attain magga phala. Their bhāvanā involved only contemplating the drawbacks of ‘sensual pleasures.’ They did not know that thoughts of ‘sensual pleasures’ cannot be permanently stopped until one understands the ‘purana kamma‘ stage of kamma accumulation: “.Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.“
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@AniccaSeeker: You may not have seen my above comment yet. I will wait to hear from you. I cannot explain things until I know roughly where you are on the Path.
- Until then, the following sutta explains what ‘bhāvanā‘ in Buddha Dhamma is: “Bhāvanā Sutta (AN 7.71).” One must first cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna.
- Essentially, one cannot remove defilements in the mind permanently (with the removal of samyojana) until one grasps the worldview of the Buddha and frees the mind of pañca nīvaraṇa at least for a short time.
- The first time overcoming pañca nīvaraṇa (temporarily) occurs at the Sotapanna phala moment.
- So, the first step is to understand Buddha’s worldview. It explains how the ‘world’ (the same as pañcupādānakkhandha) arises through two stages of mind contamination: purāna kamma and nava kamma. No one knows about the ‘unconscious part’ of the pañcupādānakkhandha generation (the ‘purāna kamma‘ stage) until a Buddha discovers it.
- Until then, everyone tries to stop mind contamination with the mind already in the nava kamma stage. They can never reach the purāna kamma stage until they clearly understand how it arises automatically.
- That seems like a lot of work, but it can be done. But one must proceed step-by-step. Before starting on Satipaṭṭhāna, one must meditate (contemplate) on the complete ‘mind contamination process’ occurring via two stages. That allows the mind to overcome pañca nīvaraṇa (temporarily) and attain the Sotapanna stage.
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Yes. One needs to understand how and why those emotions arise, and what triggers them. Until the root causes and the triggering mechanism are figured out, we can never stop such emotions from arising.
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I am glad that you realized the following: “I think just observing emotions is not enough to develop wisdom.”
- I highlighted that part of your comment above.
1. That is why ancient yogis, before the Buddha (like Ālāra Kālāma and Uddaka Rāmaputta), could not attain a magga phala.
- Many people who engage in meditation today are like those two yogis. Of course, they are better than those who engage in ‘breath meditation’ because there is no ‘meditation’ in ‘breath meditation.’
2. The problem is the following. You are trying to meditate while in the ‘nava kamma‘ stage or at least toward the end of the ‘purāna kamma‘ stage.
- Those ancient yogis like Ālāra Kālāma and Uddaka Rāmaputta did not know how a mind becomes defiled in two stages: purāna kamma and nava kamma.
- Before I go any further, are you familiar with those two stages of mind contamination?
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I will try to do that in detail at some point. But for the moment, the following could be helpful.
1. Let us consider the first sutta (both are the same in content), where it describes how a Noble Person (Sotapanna Anugami or above) lives attempting to follow Buddha’s qualities (‘ariyasāvako tathāgataṁ anussarati‘. itipi so bhagavā arahaṁ sammāsambuddho vijjācaraṇasampanno sugato lokavidū anuttaro purisadammasārathi satthā devamanussānaṁ buddho bhagavā’ti.): “Mahānāma Sutta (AN 6.10). “
- Then, @3.1 and @4.1 say the same about following the qualities of Dhamma and Sangha.
- Then, @5.2: A noble disciple is thus able to live with ethical conduct with their mind devoid of greed, hate, and delusion: ‘Yasmiṁ, mahānāma, samaye ariyasāvako sīlaṁ anussarati nevassa tasmiṁ samaye rāgapariyuṭṭhitaṁ cittaṁ hoti, na dosapariyuṭṭhitaṁ cittaṁ hoti, na mohapariyuṭṭhitaṁ cittaṁ hoti‘
- Also note that tathāgataṁ anussarati‘ (@2.2) involves the qualities of the Buddha: ‘‘itipi so bhagavā arahaṁ sammāsambuddho vijjācaraṇasampanno sugato lokavidū anuttaro purisadammasārathi satthā devamanussānaṁ buddho bhagavā’ti.’ Similarly, dhammaṁ anussarati (@3.1) involves the qualities of the Dhamma: ‘svākkhāto bhagavatā dhammo sandiṭṭhiko akāliko ehipassiko opaneyyiko paccattaṁ veditabbo viññūhī’ti.’ AND saṅghaṁ anussarati (@4.1) involves the qualities of the Saṅgha: ‘suppaṭipanno bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho, ujuppaṭipanno bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho, ñāyappaṭipanno bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho, sāmīcippaṭipanno bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho, yadidaṁ cattāri purisayugāni aṭṭha purisapuggalā esa bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho āhuneyyo pāhuneyyo dakkhiṇeyyo añjalikaraṇīyo anuttaraṁ puññakkhettaṁ lokassā’ti.’ Those are the nine, six, and nine supreme qualities attributed to the Buddha, Dhamma, and Saṅgha, respectively: see #2 of “Supreme Qualities of Buddha, Dhamma, Saṅgha.”
2. Now, those can be tied to the four qualities of a Sotapanna/Sotapanna Anugami, per “Veḷudvāreyya Sutta (SN 55.7)” and several other suttas: ‘So buddhe aveccappasādena samannāgato hoti—itipi so bhagavā …pe… satthā devamanussānaṁ buddho bhagavāti;dhamme …pe…saṅghe aveccappasādena samannāgato hoti suppaṭipanno bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho …pe… anuttaraṁ puññakkhettaṁ lokassāti. ariyakantehi sīlehi samannāgato hoti akhaṇḍehi …pe… samādhisaṁvattanikehi.’
- These (@11. through 11.4) are the same nine, six, and nine supreme qualities attributed to the Buddha, Dhamma, and Saṅgha, respectively, in “Supreme Qualities of Buddha, Dhamma, Saṅgha“
- So, that is the connection between the two suttas: Mahānāma Sutta (AN 6.10) and Veḷudvāreyya Sutta (SN 55.7).
- At the end of the “Veḷudvāreyya Sutta (SN 55.7)“, it is clearly stated that these Noble Persons are free of the apayas, i.e., at the Sotapanna stage.
3. Also see “Anussati and Anupassanā – Being Mindful and Removing Defilements” and “Sotapatti Aṅga – The Four Qualities of a Sotāpanna.”
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