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Fear, confidence, sadness, elation are all associated with the “mindest” at the given moment. The mindset here is not a kilesa or upakilesa, but arise DUE TO kilesa and upakilesa. Elation is not joy (piti), but a “state of mind” like sadness.
Those can become one’s gati (bhavanga) for the next life, if the mindset at the cuti-patisandhi moment is one of those.
– Fear and sadness are associated with births in lower realms.
– Confidence and joy associated with births in higher realms.
– A neutral state of mind (upekkha) can be associated with brahma realms and optimized for an Arahant.This is why all beings in lower realms have subconscious fear and/or sadness. Those in higher realms have a pleasant state of mind in bhavanga.
Bhavanga is an important concept: “Bhava and Bhavanga – Simply Explained!” and “State of Mind in the Absence of Citta Vithi – Bhavanga“.
AxelSnaxel wrote above, ““Also when the first desana was to be given in Sri Lanka, the novice accompanying Mahinda used his psychic power to announce it to the whole country with his voice.”
I wrote that it may not be true.
However, I have been thinking about these “mystical phenomena” over the weekend. They may not be mystical at all.
– As I have pointed out in recent posts, some of these phenomena are “beyond our sense perceptions”, but are regular features of some other realms.In the “Cūḷanikā Sutta (AN 3.80)”, the Buddha explains to Ven. Ananda that he has the ability to “make his voice heard over a billion star systems (each one of them like the Solar system)”.
Here is an English translation: “Lesser (AN 3.80)“.
– In that translation, a cluster of billion world systems is called “a galactic supercluster”. That particular translation is probably not right, because our own galaxy has over 100 billion stars. But you can get the main idea.I will try to write a post in the future explaining that some of these “mysterious phenomena” described in the Tipitaka may be explained with modern science. For example, this way of “having the voice heard across star systems” is NOT done in the normal way, where sound waves travel through the air.
– So, it is entirely possible that “..the novice accompanying Mahinda used his psychic power to announce it to the whole country with his voice”. It is NOT that he had to announce with a high power source like speakers that we use today; such a strong voice would have damaged ears of those who were closeby. The technique is entirely different.
– And “seeing over long distances” is NOT done with light photons as we are familiar with (which requires eyes to see). Seeing over long distances (dibba cakkhu) is NOT done with physical eyes.
–Thanks for the reference, and also for pointing out the times. That saves me time!
It is hard to verify some of these claims. Some accounts are only in the commentaries and I normally do not trust them.
However, we can trust such detailed accounts are in the Vinaya Piṭaka.
– But those accounts in the Vinaya Piṭaka are only relevant to events during the time of the Buddha.
– What happened at the time of Ven. Mahinda is obviously not going to be in the Tipitaka, but in the commentaries. The original commentaries (except for 3 included in the Tipitaka) have disappeared and the existing commentaries are not reliable.AxelSnaxel asked: “I’m curious how that rule applies to cases where a monk could use psychic powers to reveal unseen realms to dispell wrong views?”
– That is likely to be allowed. However, it could be much more difficult to show other realms (say, niraya) to other people. It is one thing to see it for oneself, but showing it to others is likely to be difficult.
– Of course, the Buddha could do that. In one account, some servants of Visaka used to laugh at statements of existence of niraya (equivalent of the hell) saying that is was a myth. So, one day Visaka took them to the Buddha and explained the situation and asked the Buddha whether he could show how beings are subjected to suffering there. So, the Buddha showed them a scene from niraya, and apparently they got so scared that they started following the Path.You wrote: “I’ve also heard that at the time of Asoka, when Arahants where sent out to the edges of the kingdom to spread Buddha Dhamma (among those Sri Lanka), the arahants often used various powers to convert the people from spirit worshipping.”
– I had not heard that. If you have a reference, I can comment.
You wrote: “Also when the first desana was to be given in Sri Lanka, the novice accompanying Mahinda used his psychic power to announce it to the whole country with his voice.”
– I do not think that is true.
– However, many thousands were people started coming to listen to the desanas. It must have been impossible to speak to such a large audience in one’s natural voice. They I have heard that Ven. Mahinda used psychic powers to “amplify his voice” so that all those people could hear.Thank you, AxelSnaxel, for pointing these out.
I just added that reference to the post, “Sansaric Time Scale, Buddhist Cosmology, and the Big Bang Theory”.
You wrote: “In Power of the Human Mind – Anariya or Mundane Jhānas under the section on “Extrasensory Perceptions and Powers (Abhiññā)”. It says you can attain various types of powers after you reach arahant..”.
– That is correct. And as you pointed out that could be done at lower levels of magga phala too, if one wanted.
– Furthermore, some of such powers can be attained by anariya yogis too.You wrote: “And then it says that the Buddha discouraged pursuing such powers and prohibited public display of them..”
– That is correct. He prohibited displaying such powers for mundane purposes. For example, one time a wealthy person put a very expensive alms bowl at the top of a long pole and advertised that anyone who get that bowl by flying through the air will own it. A bhikkhu who was in need of a bowl retrieved it by flying through air. That was a display of “magical powers” and that prompted the Buddha to instill that Vinaya rule.
– But there are instances where such powers were used for good purposes, even by the Buddha himself.
– Of course the Buddha minimized such uses. In most cases, the Buddha just walked for miles and miles to get to destination, without getting there “instantly” by using such powers.
– But I remember one account in the Tipitaka where the Buddha and 500 Arahants crossed a raging river at a time of a flood, using iddhi powers. They did not have another option.Just published a post clarifying some of these issues. Please feel free to ask questions if something is not clear. It is important to get things clarified before proceeding any further.
“Clarification of “Mental Body” and “Physical Body” – Different Types of “Kāya”“.
Akvan wrote: “The Buddha said that the Dhamma is something completely unknown to anyone at that time. But people at that time had seen the suffering in the re-birth process (i.e. the hell worlds, animal realms etc.). So the dukkha sachcha cannot simply be the suffering in the re-birth process but something a bit more subtle that no one could fathom.”
This is a very dangerous idea, but it is a very common idea. This is why we have been trapped in this rebirth process for so long.
Here are some key points to think about:
1. The most fundamental concept in Buddha Dhamma is “bhava” + “uddha” or “stopping future bhava (existences) from arising”. So, yes, that is what the Buddha taught: How to stop the rebirth process and to end ANY and ALL suffering.
– The word “Buddha” itself comes from “bhava” + “uddha”, meaning a Buddha is the one who finds the way to stop bhava (and jati) from arising and to attain Nibbana (end of suffering).2. Please carefully read the first sutta of the Buddha: Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta. He said, “ayam antima jati, nattidani punabbhavo” or “this is my last birth, no more rebirths for me”.
3. He told bhikkhus, “I teach you how to END the suffering”. Suffering cannot be completely stopped from arising as long as one is in the rebirth process.
4. The First Noble Truth is not just that “there is unbearable suffering in the apayas”. Of course, many ancient yogis knew that, and saw that for themselves. But they could not figure out HOW to stop those births in the apayas. Yogis like Alara Kalama thought cultivating jhanas and getting a birth in a brahma realm will keep one away from the apayas. They thought that was the “end of suffering”.
5. If one understand the First Noble Truth, then one WILL know that there is suffering in all 31 realms. Any bhava (and jati) ends up in suffering. Even in deva and brahma realms, one may live without much suffering for most of those lives, but it INEVITABLY comes back in spades at the end. When a deva is getting close to death, the beautiful body starts decaying, and it becomes clear that the “end is near”. That is the real suffering, because that deva would not know whether the next birth in the apayas.
6. This becomes clear when one carefully looks at Paticca Samuppada: It starts with “avijja paccaya sankhara” and ends with, “jati paccaya jara, marana, ..”. As long as one generates sankhara (whether it is apunnabhisankhara, punnabhisankhara, or anenjabhi sankhara), one WILL end up with suffering.
– Apunnabhisankhara lead to rebirth in the apayas.
– Punnabhisankhara lead to rebirth in the human, deva, and rupavacara brahma realms.
– Anenjhabhi sankhara lead to rebirths in the arupavacara brahma realms.– “Avijja paccaya sankhara” include all three kinds of sankhara.
– Suffering CANNOT be ENDED without SEEING the futility of staying in the rebirth process.
– In other words, NO BIRTH in the 31 realms can be maintained to one’s satisfaction. ANY birth will end up in suffering, at least the end (death), where the suffering is most felt. That is called anicca nature.(P.S. By the way, this is why the Buddha said: “sabbe sankhara anicca” and “sabbe sankhara dukkha“).
7. When one understands the First Noble Truth, one would have understood OTHER THREE Noble Truths too: The causes of suffering (any kind of sankhara), end of suffering is the same as stopping the causes for suffering, and the way to achieve that.
– This is why it is said that the First Noble Truth is not just about KNOWING that there is suffering. One must understand HOW that suffering arises due to apunnabhisankhara, punnabhisankhara, and anenjabhisankhara.
– Then one would realize the anicca nature: that as long as one is in the rebirth process, one will NEVER be able to PERMANENTLY remove future suffering.I hope Johnny can now see the problem with his statement: ““The Buddha said that the Dhamma is something completely unknown to anyone at that time. But people at that time had seen the suffering in the re-birth process…”.
– Just KNOWING that suffering exists in the rebirth process is not enough. One needs to understand Paticca Samuppada and realizes HOW that suffering ARISES due to avijja and tanha (craving for worldly things).
– P.S. All our actions, speech, and thoughts are generated via sankhara, and thus generate kammic energy (and strongest of those lead to future rebirths); this is what was discussed in the post in question: “Viññāna and Sankhāra – Connection to Paticca Samuppāda“.
– And one cannot get rid of tanha until one realizes the unfruitful nature of ALL realms, the anicca nature. One CANNOT maintain any existence in ANY realm. All existences (bhava) eventually lead to suffering.y not wrote: “Surely, Lal, you are not saying that all the beings had a human form once back on the physical Earth? This is what I find that may be misleading. As you state later: those “early brhama-like humans”.
I know it is hard to deal with our perceptions of a “body” being massive.
– However, the manomaya kaya of a brahma is a billion times smaller than an atom! We cannot even see an atom.
– So, yes, there can be many trillions of “humans with brahma-like bodies” on Earth. They hardly take any space.
– I know it is automatic to immediately visualize the picture of a human with a heavy body. But those early humans were very different, almost like brahmas.The fact that brahmas have “very fine bodies” was discussed in previous posts. But I know that reading a post is not enough to get the “right perception”. That is why it is good to contemplate on issues like what we are addressing now. It forces one to really think about the details.
Another way to think about this is the following: When one cultivates even anariya jhana to the fourth jhana, one could come out of the physical body with a manomaya kaya that is somewhat similar to the manomaya kaya of a brahma. Then one can travel with that “brahma-like body” even to brahma realms (which is really “space travel”). This is stated in many suttas, for example, Sāmaññaphala Sutta (DN 2).
By the way, “anusaya” may be a better word than “gati” in my previous post (of course, they are inter-related).
“So the statement ‘all beings started out as humans’ could be very misleading.”
No. That is a correct statement FOR THAT TIME at the beginning of a new maha kappa. By the end of the previous maha kappa all beings in all apayas, human realm, deva realms, and a few lower brahma realms moved up to that brahma realm, which was not affected by the destruction of the other realms. Not a single living being could survive in those realms.
ALL BEINGS gradually move up to that brahma realm, NOT because their gati had changed. All pleasing things the world were gradually being destroyed. So, gradually less and less things the world were appealing to the senses. We could say, they were FORCED to give up cravings.
– Of course, seeing the devastation around (this happened over a long time, over hundreds of millions of years), it is possible that more and more people could have become more “religious” too.
– Since those gati had not changed significantly, those old gati started to take hold gradually in those “early brhama-like humans” (P.S. even better to say that anusaya or “hidden defilements” start to re-surface). That is how those early humans lost their supernormal powers. Of course, those with worse gati were the first to become animals, hell beings, etc. That happened over billions of years.On the issue of human birth being rare: When the Buddha stated how rare the human birth is, that is regarding “normal times” on Earth, like the present time.
It is good to contemplate on these issues. We also need to think about the time scales involved (millions and billions of years).
“Is this the same as saying that the first humans on earth were human gandhabbas?”
Not really. Those early humans “came down” from the Abhassara brahma realm and were very similar to those brahmas.
– Brahmas do not need food. Human gandhabbas of the present time do need to inhale aroma (that is how they get a bit more dense bodies).
– At that time, there was nothing on Earth to provide such aroma.
– After long times, Earth became populated with plants, and then animals. At that time they probably started inhaling aroma, and thus began the gradual process towards physical bodies built with cells. It was a gradual process.
– Even today, when a human bhava first starts, that manomaya kaya (of the gandhabba) is close to that of a brahma, but those gadnhabbas start inhaling aroma soon, and get a “bit more dense” than brahmas who have just a few suddhashtaka (hadaya vatthu and a few pasada rupa).
– Those suddhashtaka are much, much smaller than even an electron, which is one of the smaller fundamental particles in physics.It is true that the Tipitaka cannot be expected to have ALL the details.
As one learns Dhamma and progresses, one would be able to “fill in the gaps” by oneself.However, there are key insights that only a Buddha is able to see. For example, I have explained why a citta vithi has 17 cittas; see, “Gandhabba (Manomaya Kaya)- Introduction“.
– But an actual citta vithi can be seen only by Buddha. He explained it to Ven. Sariputta and that is how it was incorporated to the Abhidhamma Piṭaka.
– Even then it is not easy to to grasp that process, unless one is truly interested.Whether a sotadvara citta vithi (generated by a Noble Person) is necessary to trigger the Sotapanna magga and phala citta in a listener (while listening to a discourse by a Noble Person) cannot be figured out by us.
– Note that sotadvara citta vithi means a citta vithi generated by an arammana (sound) coming through the ear.
– It may not be necessary, but if the Tipitaka says it is necessary (or discuss that particular sotadvara citta vithi), then we would have confidence in that fact.Tobias wrote: “Plants are alive but not sentient. They do not have a mind. There are people who lovingly or evilly speak to cooked rice. The rice reacts with a certain consistency or just rottenness. How can this be explained in terms of Buddha Dhamma?”
As Christian says, the mind can affect our environment too. I think Tobias may be referring to the following video posted by Eric (we have not heard from him recently!): “The Rice Experiment (Video)“.
– See my comments there.Regarding the recent post, “Human Life – A Mental Base (Gandhabba) and a Material Base (Cell)“, Tobias asks:
“Under #9 it is said: “…However, the first cells that appeared in the Earth were created by kammic energy (in javana cittas)…”
Also somewhere on this website Lal said that the evolution theory of Darwin is not correct (evolution through natural selection).
I do not understand how the first dinosaur or the first elephant or the first human appeared on earth.”This is a very good question. But a proper answer requires more background. I am in the process of laying out that background.
– Darwin’s theory of evolution is not correct only for the evolution of a human. Humans were the first to appear on the newly-formed Earth. But those humans had “brahma-like” bodies, and no physical bodies with cells.
– Humans actually evolved “downward”, losing their ability to travel through the air like brahmas, ability to see and hear without eyes and ears, etc. They did not have to eat, just like brahmas.
– But over billions of years, they gradually evolved to have physical bodies, as I mentioned briefly in the last post.
– The rest of the species are likely to have evolved according to Darwin’s theory. First came bacteria and helped to generate oxygen in the atmosphere. Then came plants, and then came the animals who needed plants for their survival. By that time, humans had evolved to have bodies like ours and humans needed food via plants too. That time sequence is also laid out in the Agganna Sutta (without such details).That is a brief summary. I hope you can get a rough idea. As I said, there are many other factors coming into play. It is wonderful to have the modern scientific knowledge available to clarify those teachings in the Agganna Sutta.
P.S. Nature (driven by laws of kamma), does the minimum necessary to get the “ball rolling”. The first cells were created by kammic energy. Everything is consistent with modern science. It is just that modern science does not yet know the power of mind energy (kammic energy) created by those javana citta.
Johnny asked:”When a zygote is impregnated with a gandhabba, any effort from this point forward to terminate life, is it considered as committing panatipata?”
Yes. Once the gandhabba (or the patisandhi vinnana) descends to the womb and “takes possession” of the zygote, there is another human life in the womb. Any attempt to kill that life (via abortion) is killing a human being; see, “Buddhist Explanations of Conception, Abortion, and Contraception“.
“Another question is, can a gandhabba attain sotāpanna magga and/or phala?”
That is an interesting question. In principle I don’t see why not. But I have not seen a Tipitaka account of a gaandhabba attaining magga phala or the Sotapanna Anugami stage.
“Can I view the gandhabba state akin to a traveller (after acquiring a new patisandhi viññāna) who is inside the airport transit lounge, waiting for the right time to enter the holding area and eventually board the plane that will bring him to the next destination?”
The situation is better described by the case of a human operator inside a totally enclosed military tank. Here the human operator is analogous to gandhabba, and the military tank is like the physical body. The human operator cannot see, hear anything outside the tank, without the help of video and audio equipment mounted on the tank. In the same way, gandhabba cannot see, hear anything without the help of the physical eyes and ears on the physical body; see, “Our Mental Body – Gandhabba“.
– Of course, the gandhabba can see, hear by itself once OUTSIDE the human body. That is what happens in Out-of-Body experiences;see, “Manomaya Kaya and Out-of-Body Experience (OBE)” and “Gandhabba Sensing the World – With and Without a Physical Body“.Another related point is that manomaya kaya is the more generic name for the “mental body”. All living beings have manomaya kaya. Gandhabba is generally reserved for the mental bodies (manomaya kaya) of humans and animals. That is because, those human and animal manomaya kaya can inhale scents (gandha + abba, or “taking in odors”) and become a bit more dense.
P.S. I have revised the post in question, “Human Life – A Mental Base (Gandhabba) and a Material Base (Cell)” to make this clear.I just revised that post to include this comment:
“I still have not seen a definitive Tipitaka reference regarding this issue. However, all suttas on the conditions for attaining Sōtapanna stage list saddhammassavanaṃ (saddhamma + savanaṃ or “listening to Dhamma”) as one condition, as in #1 above. Since written texts were not available at the time of the Buddha, this is not definitive as a condition.”The post in question is: “Viññāna and Sankhāra – Connection to Paticca Samuppāda“.
Johnny asked: “In the most absolute sense, is the Ariyan Dukkha Sacca referring to rebirth suffering OR the mental vexation that entails when a person’s sense faculties take in inputs from the various external sense objects, and consequently delighting in the this and that, delighting in the here and now? ”
The main achievement is eliminating suffering in the rebirth process.
– But any suffering due to “mental vexation” even during this life is stopped for an Arahant.
– What remains for this life for an Arahant is any PHYSICAL suffering (injuries, sicknesses, etc) that arise due to kamma vipaka.
– Of course, ALL SUFFERING is stopped at the death of an Arahant (Parinibbana).Johnny wrote: ” the Buddha said before that his Dhamma is Sanditthiko (to be seen here and now), Akaliko (not delayed in time). ”
– Dhamma CAN BE seen in this lfe and Arahanthood IS attained in this life. Even though relatively insignificant physical suffering due to kamma vipaka remain for an Arahant, that is negligible due to suffering that could be encountered in future births for billions of years to come.
– “Akalika” DOES NOT mean “not delayed in time”. It means that Buddha Dhamma DOES NOT CHANGE with time. Whether there is a Buddha in the world or not, the laws of nature as described by Buddha Dhamma are valid and enforced by Nature. It is just that no one would know about them in the absence of a Buddha Sasana.P.S. “Sanditthika” (“San” + “ditthika” or “”seeing defilements”) — and removing those defilements — starts at the Sotapanna Anugami stage, and completed at the Arahant stage; see, “What is “San”? Meaning of Sansāra (or Samsāra)” and related posts.
