[Lal]

I am not sure whether you have read the following posts. They help understand a writing convention (adopted by early European scholars) that is widely used today to “write Pali words.”

“Tipiṭaka English” Convention Adopted by Early European Scholars – Part 1” and the second part referred to therin.

It may also be helpful to pronounce Pali words correctly. One could read the Pali version of, say “Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta” while listening a good recitation of it:
“Boy Who Remembered Pāli Suttas for 1500 Years” and “Sutta Chanting (with Pāli Text)” have recitation of that sutta.

By the way, anyone can use this thread to ask questions on the above or if they have related questions.
– I see some people writing Pali words inconsistent with the above convention.
– More importantly, many pronounce Pali words incorrectly because they are unaware of the above “Tipitaka English” convention. For example, “citta” is not pronounced with “t” as in “top.” Rather it is pronounced with both “t”s as in “Theme”. Also, “c” is not pronounced as in “cat” but with “ch” sound as in “chip.”
– Thus, in standard English, that word may be written as “chiththa.”

[Lal]

Good Point. A Sotapanna would have removed all three types of vipallāsa about anicca nature.

I have revised the post. Thank you!

[Lal]

That is wonderful!
– Buddha’s teachings are seeping into you faster. One just needs to get started, and once taken hold, Dhamma will take over.
– In the old days (when I was much younger), cars used to get stalled. A bunch of people needed to give the car a “big push” to get it moving. At a certain speed, the engine will start. After that, you just drive where you want to go. It becomes so easy.
– It looks like you have reached that starting point or may be close.

By the way, your English is good too. I remember that you initially hesitated to come to the forum when you wrote emails to me. No worries! You can express yourself well.

The last sentence could be better as:
May all living beings be with the Blessings of the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha!

May the Blessings of the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha be with you on your journey!

[Lal]

1. “So dāna means giving and cāga means generosity, the two are different concepts.”
– They are not really two different concepts. But “cāga” or the desire give may be intensified when one realizes the unfruitful nature of worldly things.
From “Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta (SN 56.11)“:

“Now this is the noble truth of the cessation of suffering.
It’s the fading away and cessation of that very same craving with nothing left over; giving it away, letting it go, releasing it, and not adhering to it.

Idaṁ kho pana, bhikkhave, dukkhanirodhaṁ ariyasaccaṁ—
yo tassāyeva taṇhāya asesavirāganirodho cāgo paṭinissaggo mutti anālayo.”

2. “Idha, gahapati, ariyasāvako vigatamalamaccherena cetasā agāraṁ ajjhāvasati muttacāgo payatapāṇi vosaggarato yācayogo dānasaṁvibhāgarato.”
– “Macchariya” is “extreme greed.” See #5 of “Cetasika (Mental Factors)”
– “muttacāgo” is to be “released from attachments” and become generous.
– Those are two examples. It will take a long essay to fully explain. But as you learn Pali words, you will be able to glean the meanings slowly.
– The English translation there gives a good general idea.

[Lal]

The video I posted earlier, “Webb Telescope detects Object older than The Big Bang, Current theories fail to explain this” has been taken off. Here is another entitled, “James Webb Telescope Just Discovered a Huge Structure That Is Older than the Universe!”:

There could be evidence that (i) stars older than the predicted age of the universe exist and (ii) expansion of the universe may not be true.
– However, scientists will take time to make certain of their conclusions before discarding the current “Big Bang Theory.” Many scientists have spent their whole lives working on the Big Bang Theory.

[Lal]

You may find the following few suttas helpful:
1. “Dānānisaṁsa Sutta (AN 5.35)”
– Next two suttas in that series are on the same subject.

2. A different aspect:
“Dānamahapphala Sutta (AN 7.52)”

3. Benefits of giving will increase if given to honorable, especially bhikkhus. Of course, giving to Noble Persons with increasing magga phala will have higher merits peaking with a Buddha. But that does not mean giving to animals/poor people should be neglected. Give whenever possible and whenever a need is seen.
“Khetta Sutta (AN 8.34)”

4. There are many suttas on the subject. Here is a search result at Sutta Central:
“526 results for dana”
– I randomly picked the above from the first page.

Note: I see that you don’t capitalize the title of a topic properly. That may be from the Korean language. The following website will make it easy. Just type the title in there, and it will give you a properly capitalized version:
“Title Case Converter“

[Lal]

Thank you for sharing your experience.

You wrote: “Recently I realized the difference between wisdom and book knowledge.”
– I am glad to hear that. That is the key to understanding concepts in Buddha Dhamma. That whole idea of “vipassana meditation” is based on that.

I also revised the old post that you referred to:
“A Simple Way to Enhance Merits (Kusala) and Avoid Demerits (Akusala)”
– I added a reference under “Notes” at the end (in #1).

[Lal]

Thank you, Jorg.

Let me make it a bit clear. Jorg’s question/comment (that I posted for him) was made on August 19, 2022, at 5:41 am in the thread:
“Who cannot practice Ānāpānasati and Satipaṭṭhāna?”

It is related to the issue of “vedanā-samosaraṇā sabbe dhammā”

P.S.
Jorg wrote, “Lal, I tried to copy the post in the link above and paste it here, but it again gave me the “forbidden” notification.”
– It is possible that this “forbidden” notification appears mainly for LONG comments. He was unable to post the same LONG comment again! His short comment above got posted without any error.
– Please use a word processor to compose longer comments. If it gets rejected, you can email it to me: [email protected]

[Lal]

“Saṅkhata” means “prepared.”
– Everything in this world is “prepared” by the mind. Put another way, everything in this world arises via Paticca Samuppada.
– See “Manōpubbangamā Dhammā..”

Everything that you mentioned is included in “saṅkhata“.

If you read the following three posts, you can get a good idea:
“Search Results for: uppado sankhata“

[Lal]

The “10 factors” are in the verse: “‘kiṁ mūlakā, āvuso, sabbe dhammā, kiṁ sambhavā sabbe dhammā, kiṁ samudayā sabbe dhammā, kiṁ samosaraṇā sabbe dhammā, kiṁ pamukhā sabbe dhammā, kiṁ adhipateyyā sabbe dhammā, kiṁ uttarā sabbe dhammā, kiṁ sārā sabbe dhammā’ti, kiṁ ogadhā sabbe dhammā, kiṁ pariyosānā sabbe dhammâ ti.”

(The questions become clearer when you separate “kiṁ” meaning “what”?)

Jorg’s explanations of the first four factors are very good.

Jorg wrote:
5), 6), 7), 8), 9), 10).
From here on I’m not familiar with many of the terms.
Let me arrange each Q & A on the same line this time:

5.    kiṁ pamukhā sabbe dhammā? samādhi pamukhā sabbe dhammā.
6.    kiṁ adhipateyyā sabbe dhammā? satādhipateyyā (sati adhipateyyā) sabbe dhammā.
7.    kiṁ uttarā sabbe dhammā? paññuttarā (paññā uttarā) sabbe dhammā.
8.    kiṁ sārā sabbe dhammā’ti? vimutti sārā sabbe dhammā’ti.
9.    kiṁ ogadhā sabbe dhammā? amat’ogadhā (amata ogadhā) sabbe dhammā.
10.   kiṁ pariyosānā sabbe dhammā ti? nibbāna pariyosānā sabbe dhammā ti

Let me state the essence. I will write posts later to explain further.

A. Factors 1 through 6 point to the root causes of dhammā (that bear everything in this world).
–

B. Note that there are ” mundane good dhammā” that lead to “better outcomes in this world like rebirths in Deva and Brahma realms. Those fall under puññābhisaṅkhāra.
– Factors 7 through 10 state that Nibbāna (reached via cultivation of paññā) is better than those “mundane good outcomes” which DO NOT last.

C. Let me expand some of Jorg’s explanations.
(1) “chanda mūlakā sabbe dhammā”
– Here chanda includes rupa raga and arupa raga in addition to kama raga.
(2) – (4) Jorg’s explanations are good.
(5) Here, samādhi means “micchā samādhi“.
(6) Here, sati means “micchā sati“, i.e., the opposite of Sammā Sati. In other words, to focus on sensual, jhanic pleasures, etc.
As I wrote above, factors 7 through 10 state that Nibbāna (reached via cultivation of paññā) is better than those “mundane good outcomes” which DO NOT last.
(7) All cetasika (sobhana and asobhana) lead to the extension of the rebirth process. Only when paññā is optimized at the Arahant stage that one becomes free of all suffering. The rest of the factors need to be addressed that way.
(8) Sāra is “essence” or “good”.
(9) ogadhā is to be “immersed in”.
(10) pariyosānā is to end.

[Lal]

1. Jorg was unable to make the above post on his own. A couple of others have run into the same issue. But they could post subsequently. I am not sure why that is.
– If anyone runs into the same issue (i.e., gets the “forbidden” message), please email it to me so that I can post it: [email protected].
– This is why it is a good idea to write the post in a word processor and paste it.

2. I am very impressed with Jorg’s understanding and efforts. Writing one or two more posts in the “Elephants in the Room” series may be necessary to address his questions. I will read his comment and see whether I can give brief answers or not.

[Lal]

The following post is from Jorg:

Thank you kindly, Lal.
Everything you said is very clear. Samphassa-ja-vedana always precede dhammā (kamma bīja). Without Samphassa-ja-Vedana, there’s no way of kamma bija developing.

Still, I had some questions lingering about that particular phrase because it’s such a key component in this tradition which I used to practice for about six years until I got hold of the deeper dhamma truths. I feel it’s my duty to understand so that I can communicate this with that proper understanding. So, I checked the corresponding suttā of the phrase for some context. After some contemplation, along with what Lal said, some things cleared up, and I realized why it was originally interpreted that way.
Maybe this is also helpful for other members who have a background in this tradition.

The context of 2 out of 3 suttā starts with Buddha asking the following questions:
AN 8.83 (This one has 8 Q & A)
AN 10.58 (This one lists 10 Q & A)

“‘kiṁmūlakā, āvuso, sabbe dhammā, kiṁsambhavā sabbe dhammā, kiṁsamudayā sabbe dhammā, kiṁsamosaraṇā sabbe dhammā, kiṁpamukhā sabbe dhammā, kiṁadhipateyyā sabbe dhammā, kiṁuttarā sabbe dhammā, kiṁsārā sabbe dhammā’ti, kiṁ ogadhā sabbe dhammā, kiṁ pariyosānā sabbe dhammâ ti.”

To which he then, himself, answers:
“‘chandamūlakā, āvuso, sabbe dhammā, manasikārasambhavā sabbe dhammā, phassasamudayā sabbe dhammā, vedanāsamosaraṇā sabbe dhammā, samādhippamukhā sabbe dhammā, satādhipateyyā sabbe dhammā, paññuttarā sabbe dhammā, vimuttisārā sabbe dhammā’ti, amat’ogadhā sabbe dhammā, nibbāna pariyosānā sabbe dhammâ ti.”

Let me arrange them in the corresponding order, adding the answer to the question, and add my comment below each Q & A:
1.)
Q: kiṁmūlakā sabbe dhammā?
A: chandamūlakā sabbe dhammā.
“What is the root of all dhammā (kamma bīja)? Kamachanda are the root.”

Kamachanda are the root cause of suffering, and they lead to new existences. Since Buddha dhamma is all about knowing this and doing something about it (with nibbana as the end goal as mentioned as #10), chanda must mean kamachanda, therefore with dhammā, kamma bīja is meant, not necessarily namagotta (memory records).

2.)
Q: kiṁsambhavā sabbe dhammā?
A: manasikārasambhavā sabbe dhammā.
I assume the question is something like: “How do these kamma bīja end up getting established in the kamma bhava (sambhavo = kamma bhava?) and, thus, lead to a new existence? Because of anyoniso manasikara.”

Since we indulge in/desire sense pleasures (kamachanda), we act with ayoniso manasikara, the opposite of yoniso manasikara. In other words, we act with ignorance of Paticca Samuppada and Tilakkhana.

3.)
Q: kiṁsamudayā sabbe dhammā?
A: phassasamudayā sabbe dhammā.
How do kamma bīja arise? They arise because of contact with san (samphassa).”

Here, I thought it was extra clear that Buddha is referring to kamma bīja because phassa cannot lead to the formation of kamma bīja. Phassa only results in the formation and storage of namagotta. In other words, “samphassa” is meant, which aligns with the previous use of ayoniso manasikara and kamachanda.

4.)
Q: kiṁsamosaraṇā sabbe dhammā?
A: vedanāsamosaraṇā sabbe dhammā.

In Lal’s first translation “all types of vedana coming together to lead to each and all dhamma,” Lal used “coming together” which coincides with Sutta central’s definition.
In the last response, Lal mentioned that “sarana” means something like help/depend on.
“Samo” means similar or equal?
This question must then mean something like:
– What are kamma bīja (equally) dependent upon?
– What converges into kamma bīja (in the same way/according to the same process)?
Answer: They all depend (in the same way) on the generation of samphassa-ja-vedana.
Since there’s samphassa, “samphassa paccaya samphassa-ja-vedana” step in the PS must happen.
And only this type of vedana leads to the establishment of kamma bīja (in the kamma bhava).

5), 6), 7), 8), 9), 10).
From here on I’m not familiar with many of the terms.
Let me arrange each Q & A on the same line this time:

5.    kiṁpamukhā sabbe dhammā? samādhippamukhā sabbe dhammā.
6.    kiṁadhipateyyā sabbe dhammā? satādhipateyyā sabbe dhammā.
7.    kiṁuttarā sabbe dhammā? paññuttarā sabbe dhammā.
8.    kiṁsārā sabbe dhammā’ti? vimuttisārā sabbe dhammā’ti.
9.    kiṁ ogadhā sabbe dhammā? amat’ogadhā sabbe dhammā.
10.   kiṁ pariyosānā sabbe dhammā ti? nibbāna pariyosānā sabbe dhammā ti

Sutta central translation:
“Immersion is their chief. Mindfulness is their ruler. Wisdom is their overseer. Freedom is their core. They culminate in the deathless. And extinguishment is their final end.”

That translation is vague, but if the definition of the words comes close, I think what the Pali sutta is trying to convey is that we need samma sati and samma samadhi to develop wisdom, leading to the eradication of defilements, thus removing the conditions for these kamma bīja to ever give rise to a new existence, i.e., be freed from them, which eventually leads to nibbana.
But not sure why sati and samadhi are listed in this order (samadhi before sati).

The third sutta is slightly different but necessary to include here. AN 9.14

It’s very similar to the answers given (except the first two), but the questions are related to “sankappavitakka,” not “dhammā” (kamma bīja).

“Kimārammaṇā, (samiddhi), purisassa saṅkappavitakkā uppajjantī”ti?
“Nāmarūpārammaṇā, bhante”ti.
Te pana, samiddhi, kva nānattaṁ gacchantī”ti?
Dhātūsu, bhante”ti.

After this, it goes on similarly as the other two suttā, shown in bold (but all related to sankappavitakka):

“Te pana, samiddhi, kiṁsamudayā”ti? Phassasamudayā, bhante”ti.
Te pana, samiddhi, kiṁsamosaraṇā”ti? Vedanāsamosaraṇā, bhante”ti,” etc.

Please correct me if I’m mistaken, but I assume the question means:
Q: “How do miccha sankappa arise after an arammana has come in contact with the sense doors?”
This should be micchā sankappa because we need to free ourselves of wrong thoughts (Micchā Saṅkappa, Apuññabhisaṅkhāra ) to reach Nibbana.
A: “They arise due to the expectation created (in the kamma viññāṇa by abhisaṅkhāra), which leads to ‘kamma viññāṇa paccaya nāmarūpa’ (in the Paṭicca Samupādda).”

The next part:
Te pana, samiddhi, kva nānattaṁ gacchantī”ti? Dhātūsu, bhante”ti.

Sutta central translation:
“Where do they become diversified? In the elements.”
Maybe this is something to do with salayatana. (I’m not sure, I don’t know the words in the question).
Because of namarupa, our senses cannot be used objectively and cannot see things for what they truly are. Elements are not merely elements anymore, they become valuable, and one becomes hopeful and delusional due to this nicca perception.

To finish off, to avoid any gaps surrounding the key phrase “Vedanāsamosaraṇā”:

“Te pana, samiddhi, kiṁsamudayā”ti? Phassasamudayā, bhante”ti.
Te pana, samiddhi, kiṁsamosaraṇā”ti?
Vedanāsamosaraṇā, bhante”ti,”

I assume this means that our defiled thoughts (miccha sankappa, apuññabhisaṅkhāra) arise because of samphassa.
Then, we start generating samphassa-ja-vedana, which all lead to more and more of similar defiled thoughts (because of taṇhā). These thoughts/sankappa/saṅkhāra are all dependent upon samphassa-ja-vedana. Without it, they (sankhara) won’t arise. (but that means we need to get rid of avijā first, so that we can stop the “avijā paccaya saṅkhāra” step in PS).
“Coming together,” or “converge,” seems a bit less appropriate in this context. Though, in the end, these saṅkhāra create dhammā and eventually get established (automatically) in the kamma bhava.

I understand now better why “vedanāsamosaraṇā sabbe dhammā” gets translated as:
-     “Whatever arises in mind is accompanied by sensations”; or
-     “Everything that arises in mind starts flowing with a sensation on the body.”

That’s because “samosarana” gets translated as “coming together,” and so it’s easy to think that dhammā come together and manifests as vedana. Dhammā are interpreted as mental phenomena, which is unfortunately not a precise description, leading to various interpretations.
Also, because of samphassa-ja-vedana, we start generating abhisaṅkhāra, and these abhisaṅkhāra generate more samphassa-ja-vedana. Then, when samphassa-ja-vedana is seen as simply “vedana,” or “sensations,” that logic actually holds up. In turn, this solidifies the idea of the translation, “Whatever arises in mind is accompanied by sensations.”

I hope this was helpful.

Lal, or anyone else, would you be able to help me fill in the gaps with the translations I missed?
And, of course, if I made an error anywhere, feel free to point it out.

With Metta

[Lal]

“vedanā-samosaraṇā sabbe dhammā”

I discussed that on this thread on April 19, 2018, at 8:06 pm.

There I wrote, “Again, the point is that not only “kaya vedana” but vedana due to all six senses lead to the mind making good or bad decisions, which end up in “sabbe dhamma” in the above verse, “vedanā-samosaraṇā sabbe dhamma”, which now we can translate as, “all types of vedana coming together to lead to each and all dhamma”.

“Sarana” means something like “help”/”depend on.”
– That may help a little bit to see nirukti.

The point is the following.
– “Dhammā” in the above verse refers to the kamma bija/kamma bhava created via PS. “Dhammā bear everything in this world” and created by our minds with abhisankhara as explained in PS.
– The verse “Ye dhamma hetuppabbhava” means that! It means “All dhammā in this world arise due to causes (they are greed, hate, ignorance),” as the Buddha explained. See “Ye Dhammā Hetuppabhavā.. and Yam Kiñci Samudaya Dhammam..”
– But it all starts with an arammana coming to mind and us getting attached to it. If we get attached, we generate “samphassa-ja-vedana” (due to greed, hate, ignorance) that leads to tanha, upadana, in PS leading to “upadana paccaya bhava.” That is how dhammā (as in kamma bija/kamma bhava) arise.
– Therefore, dhammā cannot arise without vedana, specifically “samphassa-ja-vedana“. Thus, “vedanā-samosaraṇā sabbe dhammā”

[Lal]

Jorg wrote, “..but I was referring to whether there was a reference for “cittanupassana is not recommended for people who haven’t understood the dhamma,” or something along this line.”

– I am not aware of a direct quote on Dhamma like that.
– However, if one does not understand that “sati” means “Sammā Sati” that means they have not understood Dhamma enough to do ānāpānassati or cittānupassanā that comes within ānāpānassati!
– So, I think the verse, “Nāhaṁ, bhikkhave, muṭṭhassatissa asampajānassa ānāpānassatiṁ vadāmi” means the same as, “..ānāpānassati is not recommended for people who haven’t understood the dhamma (meaning Buddha Dhamma).”
– That verse is in the cittānupassanā section of MN 118.

I am not sure when I will do the next post on “Anapanasati-related -elephant-in-the-room” section.
I keep coming across things that need to be addressed before that.

[Lal]

Good question. I have wondered about that too.

It is possible that “asura gati” are lumped together with “animal gati.”

If anyone has other possible explanations, please post.

[Author]

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