Post on “Samādhi, Jhāna, and Sammā Samādhi”

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    • #38485
      dosakkhayo
      Participant

      I found this expression while reading udana. “āneñjasamādhi” or “āneñjena samādhinā”: “Yasoja Sutta (Ud 3.3)
      Is this samadhi is actually means arupavacara samapatti?


      In here,

      Samādhi, Jhāna, and Sammā Samādhi

      Lal said,

      Today, many English texts incorrectly label the “higher rupāvacara samāpatti” as the fifth through the eighth jhāna. In the Tipiṭaka, they are labeled as ākāsānañcāyatana, viññāṇañcāyatana, ākiñcaññāyatana, and nevasaññānāsaññāyatana samāpatti. When mind transceds the fourth jhāna samāpatti, it goes to ākāsānañcāyatana samāpatti straight away; there is no ākāsānañcāyatana jhāna. The same holds for the other three arupāvacara states.

      and

      Cultivation of āneñjābhisaṅkhāra leads to arupavacara samāpatti.


      So I’ve been starting to get a little confused. According to the above post, tipitaka clearly distinguishes between samādhi, jhāna, and samāpatti. But udana’s expression seems to refer to arupavacara samapatti.

      I think this āneñjasamādhi is probably one of the many kinds of samādhi that you’ve mentioned before, and it doesn’t refer to the experience of jhāna or samāpatti. But I’d like to hear your explanation for now.

      with metta

    • #38488
      Lal
      Keymaster

      P.S. I had made an error in my initial response. The following is the correct explanation.

      Hello Dosakkhaya,

      You seem to be referring to the following sentence in the “Yasoja Sutta (Ud 3.3)”:
      Tena kho pana samayena bhagavā āneñjena samādhinā nisinno hoti.”

      In the English translation there: “But at that time the Buddha was sitting immersed in imperturbable meditation.”

      1. So, the translator translated “āneñjena samādhi” as “imperturbable meditation.”
      That translation is correct. It is the Buddha who was in this samādhi. Thus, āneñja, in this case, has the meaning of “no more rebirths”. Thus, it is the “Arahant phala samādhi.”

      2. My confusion was due to the fact that cultivation of “āneñjābhi saṅkhāra” lead to “arupāvacara samāpatti” and the cultivation of arupāvacara samāpatti
      result in rebirth in one of the four arupāvacara Brahma realms: ākāsānañcāyatana, viññāṇañcāyatana, ākiñcaññāyatana, and nevasaññānāsaññāyatana.
      – I have discussed that in detail in the post, “Rebirths Take Place According to Abhisaṅkhāra

      3. The point is that “āneñjābhi” means “no more rebirths.”
      – However, before the Buddha, anariya yogis had thought that the cultivation of “arupāvacara samāpatti” leads to Nibbana, i.e., no more rebirths. That is why the term “āneñjābhi” was used in the types of saṅkhāra (āneñjābhi saṅkhāra) that lead to those “arupāvacara samāpatti“.

      4. However, the “Yasoja Sutta (Ud 3.3)” does not refer to “arupāvacara samāpatti” or āneñjābhi saṅkhāra.
      – In fact, the single sentence in the sutta directly refers to a samādhi of the Buddha.
      – Thus, āneñjena samādhinā in that verse refers to “Arahant phala samādhi.”
      – Therefore, it is OK to translate it as “imperturbable meditation” because “Arahant phala samādhi” is “imperturbable.”
      – Furthermore, there is no conflict with the material in the post, “Jhāna, Jhāya, and Jhāyi – Different Meanings
      – Please don’t hesitate to ask questions if the above explanation is not clear.

    • #41698
      Tobias G
      Participant

      Please see the post Samādhi, Jhāna, and Sammā Samādhi.
      #8 says:
      “…But there are Paññāvimutta Arahants who had not cultivated jhāna but attained the Arahanthood in relatively short times. However, they also get to the fourth jhāna briefly at the moment of Arahant magga phala, but they need to practice jhāna to get into jhāna at will. …”

      How is it possible to get to the fourth jhana if jhana is not cultivated?

    • #41707
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Thanks, Tobias.
      Yes. That was an error. I have revised that sentence in #8 as follows:
      “But there are Paññāvimutta Arahants who had not cultivated jhāna but attained Arahanthood in relatively short times. However, they also get to the vicinity of the first jhāna briefly at the moment of Arahant magga phala, but they need to practice jhāna to get into jhāna at will.”

      Samādhi, Jhāna, and Sammā Samādhi

      Only Upacāra (U), Anuloma (A) samadhi are needed to get to any magga phala. See #14 and #15 of the following post for citta vithi involving magga phala and jhana.
      Citta Vīthi – Processing of Sense Inputs

    • #41899
      Tobias G
      Participant

      Please see the post Jhāna, Jhāya, and Jhāyi – Different Meanings

      #2: “…Note that jhāya means “to meditate,” jhāyi means “meditator,” and jhāna refers to a specific meditative state. …”

      #3 says: “…Translated: Jhāyī means to “meditate.” What are the different types? 

       

      Jhayi is the meditator, right? And jhaya means “to meditate“.

    • #41902
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Thanks, Tobias!

      I just made that change of one word. The rest is OK, as I see.

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      • We found the problem, and it has been resolved, at least temporarily. Please email me ([email protected]) if the website does not load for over five minutes.
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