Addressing need of listening to Desanas + My questions to Lal sir.

  • This topic has 9 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 1 year ago by Lal.
Viewing 9 reply threads
  • Author
    • #32529
      Sotapanna anugami

      Sir as you said that according to Venerable Sir Thero It’s necessary to listen to Buddha dhamma from an Ariya to attain Sotapanna stage. I completely agree with that because all aspects of information are not conveyed through texts. 55% body language, 38% Voice,tone and 7% spoken words play a role in a conversation. I am saying this based on my school textbook. But listening to desana is mostly one way conversation and only the sender is involved so most aspects of information are conveyed through PRE-WRITTEN texts but some are still missing((which is not the case in text chatting with a friend because 93% is missing in chatting))
      However, I am certain that these %ages are not appropriate where only the sender is involved, like in a desana. Most of the aspects of information is conveyed by a pre-written text but some are still missing because these are simply not conveyed by spoken words and other aspects like above and some might be unknown, do not come in contact with the mind of the receiver.
      As of the Sotapanna stage all aspects of required Buddha dhamma should be known to him. One can only attain Sotapanna Anugami stage by reading and contemplating on this site.
      So sir It’s my request that if you could make some English desanas which also should have essential Pali words like on this site because I do not know Sinhala language and certainly would avoid to listen to other’s English Desanas as you have said most are distorted.
      I have seen Venerable Sir Thero’s desana with English subs but my view is always on subtitles and I certainly would not be able to look at Sir when he would say anything.

      I would prefer your desana over anyone but I certainly have equal respect for all Ariyas and if you would suggest any such Ariya who is providing desanas in your site’s format(English + Pali) then it would also be of much help not only for me but for all.

      My questions to Venerable Lal sir.

      Question 1:Sir I am not born in a Buddhist family but in recent past, I somewhat saw unfruitful nature of sense pleasures and thought that all sufferings are caused by sense pleasures (yes I literally could see the suffering but didn’t know it’s real cause which are avijjā and Tanha but Tanha is also caused by avijjā when one perceive nicca,sukkha and atta as true nature of existence) so I began following mythological meditative gods and thought that meditation is the way to salvation and removal of all sufferings until I came across puredhamma site (much gratitude for you Lal sir) because I used to search keywords like ‘how to remove all sufferings’ occasionally. So sir I have never encountered any Buddhist boy either in my school or in my locality and I also can’t recognise them by their name like one can do for different religions.I am not a Sotapanna yet, so I refrain from teaching anyone buddha dhamma but I want to know how can I get a kalyān mittā? Is it necessary? And as you told that when you encountered Venerable Sir Thero’s desanas you also tried to tell your friends but none of them listened; so sir I want to know is it necessary to have a kalyān mittā? And if yes then please guide on what should I do and how can I recognise if someone is a Buddhist?

      Q.2)Sir my mother tongue is Hindi so I used to get meaning of a few Pali words just by reading them and I devote all my remaining time apart from study and mild exercise on reading buddha dhamma on this site and further contemplating on it.So Sir I also want to know your suggestion on that Should I learn Sinhala language? and from Where? because I am currently in high school(15 years of age) and in 2 years I will be in college. I certainly would have much time for perfecting Sinhala and also reading buddha dhamma simultaneously on this site in college. I know it might be laborious but I am somewhat certain of my Tihetuka Patisandhi and thus wanted to attain atleast Sotapanna stage in this life and further Arahanthood.

      My respect and gratitude for you Lal sir.

    • #32530
      Sotapanna anugami

      Sir This is a bit long but if you don’t have time I have only explained my journey starting from seeing unfruitful nature of sense pleasures and subsequent suffering in its overindulgence. And after getting sick I got to knew that indeed this world has suffering and my sole goal was to remove this suffering. I developed my own philosophy which matched to Buddha’s but only to some extent. I didn’t have some of the miccha dhittis, Not at all Silabata Paramasa and also didn’t have world view of nicca but only to a very few extent. Sir what are your views on my Patisandhi Tihetuka or Dvihetuka. Moreover my academic and Sports performance is also decent.

      Sir and when I got to know about ahetuka, dvihetuka and tihetuka births, I contemplated and thought in which category I am? I could simply rule out ahetuka Patisandhi without any question. I became a bit nervous between dvihetuka and tihetuka because my quest for end of suffering was started before hearing dhamma and also it was the reason I found this site. Simple unsatisfactory nature of sense was visible to me and in one of the posts you talked about that we mostly suffer agitation and other forms of suffering mostly all the time, this agitation was also visible to me in vague and scattered sense. And also over-indulgence in food, game, movies, music certainly not increase the pleasure felt but instead suffering was inflicted and this unsatisfactory nature of sense pleasure + the arrow like nature of vedana(feelings) when once in a while I used to get cold.
      The immense suffering of over indulgence and fever( the only disease I remember I ever had till now) was enough for me. I just never wanted to suffer again in any form not even agitation, I used to call this suffering, sadness.
      I started thinking and developing my own philosophies without any external knowledge, after sometime my world principle was clear, it was that IF ANYONE WILLINGLY WISHED AND INDULGED IN ANY FORM PLEASURE HE IS BOUND TO SUFFER(but wait that’s what Tanha is in a vague sense willingly wishing is desire for pleasure that they will give happiness and having nicca and sukkha view and getting attached to them). I beleived it to be 100% correct and after all it was my self made philosophy and I thought I have got the way to end suffering (I believed in rebirth only for the sake that why humans are born poor, rich, handicapped . But I never thought about rebirth much because I was mainly concerned to end the sadness felt by me in this life). Just like I now know that avijjā and it’s extreme form Moha is the cause of suffering and removing avijjā will end all suffering, the same thing I used to think before for desire of happiness, if I wished and indulged in pleasure I would suffer but if I didn’t wish and indulged in any pleasure then I will also not feel any suffering, this was my philosophy.I was not concerned with pleasure but my sole goal is not to suffer even for a moment.
      This worked fine I used to spend most of my time studying and sleeping(because I didn’t have energy to do much because I ate very less I also made sure nothing should please my tongue)…….then I got thought of searching the web about my philosophy I end up reading much about meditation and it’s bliss. So I started meditating but I used to feel very much sleepy.Then I thought the reason I am sleepy is because of eating too less, so I altered my diet and started meditation when I got time from my studies, and yes I indeed felt the calmness but not much bliss because I didn’t cultivated it for long. I also used to search the web occasionally for with keywords like ending sadness, suffering, controlling the body so that I never get ill etc etc… Then I somehow got landed on this site when I started reading about Goutama Buddha’s world view and I heard about him, respected him but learning his teachings never crossed my mind, maybe because I was egoistic (high mindedness) I used to think I am good at everything studying, sports etc and most importantly I have figured out the way to eliminate sadness which none of the religions found(I don’t know why I didn’t considered Buddhism ever maybe because it’s not prevailing in my locality). I used to think religious people worship God for this pleasure which cannot be maintained instead overindulgence will cause them suffering, I used to think only I know the truth that wishing and having desire of pleasure caused suffering and yes indeed it is true(anusaya) but not entirely because I didn’t think desire for pleasure cause suffering but indulging in pleasure cause suffering instead. This pride might be the reason I never read what other religions have to say about it.

      But after sometime occasionally I end up here and literally had butterflies in my stomach when I read Buddha’s world view, I said what? Buddha also said this, means I was indeed on right track and I naturally had interest because my goal was to eliminate sadness and he told how can I eliminate it, Then, I started reading the posts on this site, I got to know Goutama’s teachings are true, clear and logical and yes his Dhamma was literally unique.
      But that was my past now I diligently follow Buddha Goutama’s way to removing suffering because this is what I always wanted. I never had Silabatta Paramasa because wishing to god for anything was simply too absurd for me and I can’t beleive how can someone following buddha and knowing his true teachings ever think of beleiving that rituals will do any good to them.

    • #32532

      Hello Sotapanna anugami,

      First, I am impressed that you have turned your mind to these issues at the tender age of fifteen.
      – That is not an accident. It is possible that you have been fulfilling “paramita” in your past lives.

      So, even though no one can be certain, it is quite likely that you have a tihetuka birth.
      – That was one of the questions you asked.

      From what you have written, you seem to have the necessary background to learn Buddha Dhamma.

      But I just wanted to make sure that you understand the following.
      – Just engaging in sense pleasures (especially eating good food or avoiding physical hardships) is not a hindrance to progress. In fact, one needs to be healthy to cultivate the path.
      – The problem is CRAVING sensory pleasures. One with such cravings constantly thinks about MORE sense pleasures.

      But the way to get rid of that craving is NOT through pure willpower, i.e., abstaining from good food, etc. to the extent that one becomes depressed or in some cases even becoming frail and sick.
      Such cravings will naturally disappear as one learns deeper Dhamma.
      – In particular, when one really understands Paticca Samuppada one will see extreme greed can lead to bad rebirths like in the peta (preta) or animal realms.

      Yes. Learning the Sinhala language can be beneficial. However, one should not put that at the top of priorities. In particular, you should finish your studies and get a decent job to make a living. Of course, you can be fully engaged with learning Dhamma while you study.

      As for English discourses, I have a set of discourses here: “Tilakkhana – English Discourses
      – There is another, more basic, set in the “Living Dhamma – Fundamentals
      – The “Living Dhamma” section has many posts on Pali.
      – Those discourses are now old. I hope to do some more in the future.
      – Also, the “Tables and Summaries” section has a glossary.

      May the Blessings of the Triple Gem be with you in your efforts!

    • #32538
      Sotapanna anugami

      Sir you asked:
      But I just wanted to make sure that you understand the following.
      – Just engaging in sense pleasures (especially eating good food or avoiding physical hardships) is not a hindrance to progress. In fact, one needs to be healthy to cultivate the path.
      – The problem is CRAVING sensory pleasures. One with such cravings constantly thinks about MORE sense pleasures.

      Yes sir, you are absolutely right, I mentioned that when I saw that there is sadness and it couldn’t be avoided, I focused all my might on finding what is causing this sadness?, I started observing my past experiences and started finding when I got sad? and why? With much thinking I came up with my self made conclusions obviously which were wrong.
      Sir but these are now only stored in my Nama gotta(memory) and I just viewed them when I was writing, with hadaya vathu.These do NOT exist in my current world view and I am 100% sure and certain for this fact. Because my world view is what Buddha taught and it is certainly established deeply because in starting days with this site I used to read about different realms only, this world view of 31 realms was being tested by my logic and also was deeply contemplated upon, I used to think about each realm, their nature and nature of beings there.

      And yes sir I now know that rupā(things) also possess pleasant, unpleasant or neutral nature(arammana) and related Vedana(feeling) is generated when they come in contact with corresponding senses.Instead of running away from it or suppressing it, I just simply look at the deep seated anusayas which come at surface as asavas, when a strong arammana usually comes because after that I will know what I have to contemplate upon now. I used to take adequate diet for my studies and contemplation now so that’s not the issue now,Every single doubt is simply erased now I am not a seeker, or finder, I am a follower of Buddha’s teachings.
      And thank you sir for replying and my gratitude for you for providing true buddha dhamma.
      Sir just one question,
      Q)I have contemplated much on teachings related to Sotapanna stage and still do frequently that’s why I named myself Sotapanna anugami :) and only two aspects are remaining listening and kalyana mittā. So nowadays I am contemplating on surfacing asavas and trying to see their anicca nature.

      My question is if a person has contemplated everything that one requires to be a Sotapanna and didn’t observed any phala moment for much long then what could be the reason for it like Ven Sariputta? and in that case should he continue with his contemplation on those gati which are removed at skadagami stage because they could also be contemplated to some extent and make them weaker to some extent? Like for me acts previously committed with patigaha(mild hate) and uddakka(high mindedness) or ego/pride are surfacing these days, now I know uddakka cannot be removed completely but I used to contemplate precisely on that act and try to realize it’s consequences if I ever commit them again.
      Q.2)Sir please explain what is kalyana mittā and when and how should I search him,No one talked about buddha dhamma ever to me, and I also avoid telling it to others because I am not an Ariya yet, Sir as you have told when you found Venerable Sir Waharakha Thero’s Desanas, you also tried to tell about it to your friends but they didn’t listen, So sir Is it necessary to have a kalyana mittā to attain Sotapanna stage who has attained Sotapanna himself, I think it’s difficult to find someone who even know Buddha’s true teaching not distorted one,A Sotapanna is too rare in my locality and it’s not easy to check him either.

      My topmost trust is in my parents that they would never do wrong to me and always think right for their children all parents love their children the most and in teaching right buddha dhamma I only trust you as of now.

      My respect and gratitude for you Lal sir.

    • #32539

      The Sotapanna phala MOMENT cannot be “experienced” in real-time. It comes and goes within a split second.
      – What happens is that one slowly becomes aware of significant changes in one’s gati and general state of the mind over weeks and months.

      In Buddha Dhamma, a kalyana mittā does not have to be a “friend” that one regularly associates with.
      – In my case, for example, my kalyana mittā was Waharaka Thero. But I did not even get a chance to meet him. He passed away in 2017.
      – He became my kalyana mittā soon after I found his discourses on the internet.
      – A kalyana mittā is someone who can help you make progress on the Path. Of course, one can have many kalyana mittā. In general, bhikkhus and laypeople (with magga phala) can be kalyana mittā to anyone.

    • #32540
      Sotapanna anugami

      Thank you very much sir for clearing my misconception on both the topics. I was thinking that sometime in future I would experience something that would make it certain for me that Sotapanna stage is attained. But now I should be observing my gati(thoughts and tendencies which surface automatically); along with contemplation.
      P.S. for my last reply: Thank you sir for Triple gem blessings, I forgot to mention this.

      Sir, so the Sotapanna Phala moment will happen but person will not be aware of it at that time and then after that gradually one will see such significant changes in his gati and mental state that he will be sure that he has attained Sotapanna stage.
      Thank you sir, no more doubts.
      Much gratitude and respect for you Sir.

    • #38410

      Lal, Did you ever got any chance to hear any DESANA in person face-to-face with any ariya?

      I am afraid that maybe, just may be if recordings won’t work for attainment of phala, I would lost very precious chance to get free from all suffering.

      I am not sure if the javana power in ariya voice is also captured in recordings.

      In future, I plan to listen to dhamma sermons from ariya in face-to-face setting.

      One last question:

      You said That one can attain sottapana stage ONLY when listening to ariya discourse.

      So, Let’s say the DESANA one is hearing from ariya is not fitting to person’s background, then will they still achieve magga phala?

      And can it happen that One can achieve phala quite sometime after pondering over a DESANA one just heard? (So not attaining phala, immediately.)

    • #38416

      I probably did listen to an Ariya while in Sri Lanka in 2014 and 2016.

      “So, Let’s say the DESANA one is hearing from ariya is not fitting to person’s background, then will they still achieve magga phala?”
      – It is hard to say. A Dhamma concept must become clear while listening.

      Of course, if one has attained the Sotapanna Anugami stage, one will attain all other seven stages without a doubt within a relatively small number of rebirths.

    • #38421
      Yash RS

      So is it that if we have not listened to any Desana then we will not attain the Sotapanna Stage even though we are reading the Correct Dhamma(from this site)?

    • #38423

      1. It is still NOT 100% certain that listening to a LIVE discourse by an Ariya is necessary for a Sotapanna Anugami to attain the Sotapanna phala moment.
      – That requirement is NOT THERE to become a Sotapanna Anugami.

      2. There are EIGHT Noble Persons (Ariya): Sotapanna Anugami, Sotapanna, Sakadagami Anugami, Sakadagami, etc.
      – Each of those is guaranteed to be free of rebirths in the apayas. They are all guaranteed of full Nibbana within a relatively short time.
      – My point is as long as one is a Sotapanna Anugami, the next steps WILL happen in due time.

      3. While I wrote the above, the following thought came to my mind: Sotapanna Anugami is also an Ariya.
      – But the “phala moment” must happen to make one a Sotapanna.
      – The question of “is listening to a live discourse by a higher Noble Person” necessary to get to that “phala moment” has not been fully resolved.

      I think that should clarify the current status.

Viewing 9 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.