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Be careful when dealing with Buddha Dhamma. It needs to be handled with respect. The Budha compared learning Dhamma to “handling a snake.” If handled in the wrong way, it can lead to bad consequences. I know you didn’t mean it. Don’t worry about it.
As for the writings by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Nanananda:
I read most of his writings a long time ago. He had a sharp mind. If he had listened to Waharaka Thero, that could have made a big difference.
He tried very hard to make sense of the Tipitaka. As you can see, he had read most of the suttas. But he could not make a coherent picture because he was not exposed to the fundamental teachings of the Buddha (anicca and anatta, among others). As you pointed out, he could not distinguish between phassa and samphassa either.
– His writings provide a good source of references. But I wouldn’t try to make sense of his explanations because of those reasons.LayDhammaFollower wrote:
“This is quotations from English translation of “law of dependent arising” digital library edition, page. 49,Whatever pertains to the ‘abhisaṅkhata-viññāṇa’ comes to cease in that all lustrous consciousness (sabbatopabha-viññāṇa). When light comes from all directions, consciousness becomes non-manifestative (‘viññāṇaṁ anidassanaṁ anantaṁ sabbatopabhaṁ’).”
Like many people in discussion forums today, he was intrigued by the verse viññāṇaṁ anidassanaṁ anantaṁ sabbatopabhaṁ. But his discussion does not make sense.
– That verse is explained in the post: “Anidassana Viññāṇa – What It Really Means”
– More information in “Pabhassara Citta, Radiant Mind, and Bhavaṅga“LayDhammaFollower wrote: “It was just that, I couldn’t see the connections between sakkāya diṭṭhi and NamaRupa discussion and also, between previous life progress and this discussion. Nothing else.”
It is for your benefit to understand the connection. That is why I gave the links. Don’t make dismissive statements without looking into issues. If you read them and the connection is not clear, you can ask questions. There is a limit to what I can write in a comment or even a regular post.
Yes. Understanding “namarupa formation” is the most critical issue.
1. That is how one starts with “nama dhamma” (vedana, sanna, sankhara, and vipaka vinnana) and CREATES future rupa: First, “namarupa” arise in mind in javana citta (with expectations for some worldly asset/activity in kamma vinnana) and then “condensed” with the repeated generation of javana citta in the “tanha paccaya upadana” and “upadana paccaya bhava” steps. See #4 of “Icchā (Cravings) Lead to Upādāna and to Eventual Suffering”
– These “namarupa” generated in mind (and released to vinnana dhatu) accumulate as kamma bija and come back to the mind at the cuti-patisandhi moment. That is when the manomaya kaya (hadaya vatthu, bhava dasaka, and pasada rupa) for the next existence are created by that accumulated kammic energy.
– This is discussed in the “Nāma & Rūpa to Nāmarūpa” subsection.2. Understanding that with an Abhidhamma analysis is ONE WAY to eliminate sakkaya ditthi.
– One can also realize the principle without going through the Abhidhamma analysis, but by realizing that there is no “soul/atman” going through the rebirth process. One creates one’s future lives with one’s mindset: “Is There a “Self”?”
– Our efforts to attain Nibbana may have started a long time ago in the rebirth process, and some may have made significant progress in the past. They just need a bit of help. Venerable Culapantha is a good example. He could not even remember a gatha (verse) after days of rehearsing. But with Buddha’s help, he attained Arahanthood and abhinna powers in a day!To add to the discussion: One can be in nirodha samapatti for only up to seven days because the physical body can not stay alive after that.
– On the other hand, one can live with Brahma viharana (Ananapanasati samadhi) for as long as one wishes.We also need to realize that nirodha samapatti requires sitting in one place for the duration. One has to get into rupavacara jhanas in sequence, get into higher arupavacara samapatti, and finally enter nirodha samapatti. But that may probably take only a few seconds for a Buddha or an Arahant like Ven. Sariputta.
– Conversely, one can be engaged in regular activities (eating, exercise, meal preparation if needed, etc.) while in Aanapansati samadhi. But one lives in seclusion.The word “adhivacanasamphasso” seems to be mentioned only once in a sutta (DN 15) and two other Tipitaka references:
“3 results for adhivacanasamphasso”
– When I first searched for “adhivacanasamphassa” nothing came up!This seems to be a deeper analysis of the “namarupa” formation in Paticca Samuppada.
– I can take a look at it when I have time later.
– Please feel free to comment if anyone has an explanation/suggestions.1. Paṭighasamphassa is easier.
– Paṭigha is a weaker form of dosa.
– Thus. in samphassa-ja-vedana, paṭighasamphassa can be understood.2. Adhivacana means “another name” for something.
– For example, danger, suffering, disease, etc, are “other names” for “kāma” or “sensual pleasures.”
– See “Bhaya Sutta (AN 8.56)”But I have not seen the term “adhivacanasamphassa” in the Tipitaka. Did he give a reference?
Thank you, Jorg, for pointing that out.
– Yes. I will add that to the post with a few references from the list below.Jorg asked: “Are there any more mentions of this in the Tipitaka that Buddha or Arahants went into seclusion?”
1. The following list probably has more suttas on that:
“16 results for diṭṭhadhammasukhavihārāya”2. Those Arahants who could get into nirodha samapatti did that whenever they got time to be free of the “daily stresses.”
– That would be even better.
– See “Nirōdha Samāpatti, Phala Samāpatti, Jhāna, and Jhāna Samāpatti”
– P.S. Most of us probably cannot even grasp the subtle differences among those various states. But nirodha samapatti is the “ultimate liberation” attained at Parinibbana. It is NOT A FEELING, it is just the TOTAL ABSENCE of any suffering or even a trace of agitation.I did not get a chance yesterday to look at the discussion. I have revised a couple of posts related to this discussion:
Hello namo0804,
Glad to see you here on the forum.
Yes. Hojan is doing a great job with the Korean puredhamma website. He also regularly sends me emails with suggestions for revisions/improvements.Regarding your question:
The word “Sotapanna” is probably associated with both those meanings.
(i) “Dutiyasāriputta Sutta (SN 55.5)” provides one meaning associated with “sota” (stream) being the Noble Eightfold Path. When one starts on the “path” or the “stream” one becomes a Sotāpanna: “sota” + “āpanna” where “āpanna” means “entering.”
(ii) As you stated, “the name “Sotāpanna” also includes the fact that we can get Sōtapanna Magga/Phala by listening desana.”
That is discussed in #3 of the post you referred to.P.S. I just revised your post to embed the Youtube video you referred to. It talks about the fact that one needs to grasp the Dhamma by hearing about it from a Noble Person to become a Sotapanna. That is quite right. If one does not know about the Noble truths, one will never reach the Sotapanna stage by just “meditating.”
– Also, one can embed a Youtube video in a post the following way:
(i) Click the “Share” button below the video and copy the link.
(ii) Paste that link in the post.1 user thanked author for this post.
I see what you are trying to say.
However, in many suttas, kamma viññāṇa is used instead of dhammā (kamma bija also means the same thing).
– For example, some suttas mention “viññāṇa descending to a womb,” implying a gandhabba (created by kamma viññāṇa) descending to a womb.
– So, one needs to know they mean the same. I think those sentences are fine.
– Furthermore, in the second case (“kamma viññāṇa is not totally mental” – in the sense that it has ENERGY unlike vipaka viññāṇa), I wanted to emphasize the difference between vipaka viññāṇa and kamma viññāṇa.Change in gati with Anapanasati/Satipatthana was explained in a chart in an earlier discussion:
“Removing black rays?”Dosakkahyo wrote: “.. ‘unconscious’ is oblivious”
– No. “Unconscious” means loss of consciousness.
– OK. So, you probably meant “not focusing on an arammana.”Yes. Upadana depends on one’s level of progress.
Thus, it is indeed correct to say: “So (for a Sotapanna), in the “arammana – vipaka vinnana – gati to attach – samphassa – samphassa ja vedana – tanha” process, “apayagami gati to attach” step can not happen. Therefore, apayagami level tanha can not happen too.”
– P.S. Thus, a Sotapanna is free of suffering associated with all apayas.I am not quite sure what you mean by the last paragraph. But I think what you are saying is the following.
– For example, an Anagami will not generate automatic mano sankhara (and follow-up vaci/kaya sankhara) for a sensual arammana that would generate kama raga in someone below that stage. That is because an Anagami has overcome “kama raga gati” and would not attach (tanha) to such an arammana. Thus an Anagami would proceed to the left (at the top of the chart shown above: “No Gati to Attach.”)
– P.S. Thus, an Anagami is free of suffering associated with all realms in kama loka.Yes. Different suttas describe these ñāṇa and iddhividha ñāṇa somewhat differently.
I discussed the Kevatts Sutta in “Pāṭihāriya (Supernormal Abilities) of a Buddha – Part I”
I just added your reference to that post (in #4). Thank you!
Dosakkhayo asked:
“small question: Is cutūpapāda ñāna same as dibbacakkhuñāṇa?”– No. They are different. Cutūpapāda ñāna gives the ability to recall previous lives (including non-human lives). Dibbacakkhuñāṇa gives the ability to “see with a divine eye,” i.e., to see long distances through walls and even to see other realms.
– Cutūpapāda comes from “cuti” (end of bhava) and “upapāda” (to a new bhava). Dibbacakkhu comes from “dibba” for “devine/Deva” and “cakkhu” for “seeing.”
