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“So I guess there are some contextual differences between the lobha, dosa, moha, alobha, adosa as a cetasika and the lobha, dosa, moha, alobha, adosa, and amoha as a six hetu.”
Why cannot they be in both categories?
– Defilements are what lead to future births. Those defilements ARE the bad types of cetasika (asobhana cetasika).
– As one progresses on the Noble Path, the possibility for those “bad cetasika” to arise in one’s mind is gradually reduced. Eventually, one would have the panna cetasika optimized, and not a single bad (or asobhana) cetasika will arise in one’s mind. That is the Arahant stage.You are confusing paramatta Dhamma with those present in one’s mind. If all paramatta Dhamma must be with a person, they will never attain Nibbana.
dosakkhayo asked: “It sounds like a Sotapanna Anugami must attain the Sotapanna stage in given bhava. Is it right? But from what I understand is Sotapanna Anugami has no limit of bhava. After becoming Sotapanna, one is left 7 bhava or less. So I’d like to know about this point.”
Those are two different issues. One is a Sotapanna Anugami becoming a Sotapanna. The other is a Sotapanna attaining Arahanthood within seven bhava.
On the second question: Good point. I have revised that as: “10. So, it is essential to understand that getting rid of the first three samyōjana involves nothing else but comprehending the anicca nature.”
I have revised that post as well as another related post, “Anantara and Samanantara Paccayā”
Both were old posts and needed revision. Let me know if you have questions on either post.
Thanks, y not, for the reference.
– I have revised the post to include it.The following is the account that I found for Dhp 338-343:
“Dhammapada Verses 338 to 343”
– Note that the background story uses the word “sow” for “piglet.”Waharaka Thero rarely provided Tipitaka references. But it is a matter of time. I am sure we will also come across the other one at some point. Thanks for your efforts.
Good question!
I will try to answer in the point format. Some people may want to read the post, “What Reincarnates? – Concept of a Lifestream” to get the background material.
1. Current “mental qualities” (in particular, gati and anusaya) are associated with the hadaya vatthu of the manomaya kaya.
2. Of course, gati and anusaya can and will change, even moment-to-moment. However, they change gradually. Even when the physical body dies, the manomaya kaya can enter another womb and start a new physical body, but with the “same” (but gradually changing) hadaya vatthu.
3. But when the “human bhava” ends, that manomaya kaya (hadaya vatthu and a set of pasada rupa) will die.
4. But kammic energy will create a new manomaya kaya (with a new hadaya vatthu and a set of pasada rupa) at that time. That is the cuti-patisandhi moment of “grasping a new bhava.”
5. That new hadaya vatthu WILL have the same anusaya (hidden defilements) but gati CAN BE very different from the those for the previous bhava.
– For example, if the transition is from a human bhava to an animal bhava, the new manomaya kaya will have “animal gati.” Note that even within a “dog bhava,” different dogs will have different “dog gati.” But as a set, all dogs have some common “dog gati” that are vastly inferior to “human gati.”6. Therefore, while gati may change drastically, anusaya will remain the same after the cuti-patisandhi moment.
– We can say that dasa samyojana represent the anusaya of a lifestream. P.S. See “Dasa Samyōjana – Bonds in Rebirth Process.”
– Unless at least the Sotapanna Anugami stage is attained, ALL living beings will have the ten samyojana. A Sotapanna Anugami will attain the Sotapanna stage before the cuti-patisandhi moment.7. Thus, by the time a Sotapanna gets to the cuti-patisandhi moment (to grasp a new bhava), three samyojana would have been removed from the anusaya.
– Thus, the new hadaya vatthu will have only SEVEN samyojana, i.e., less anusaya.8. That means that lifestream CAN NOT grasp a bhava in an apaya. Those lost three samyojana are permanently lost.
– In other words, a Sotapanna can NEVER again have “dog gati” or the “gati of a hell-being,” for example.
– If that Sotapanna grasps a Deva bhava, they will have Deva gati. If a Brahma bhava grasped, then Brahma gati, etc.Some familiarity with the posts on gandhabba may be needed: “Mental Body – Gandhabba” and “Gandhabba (Manomaya Kaya).”
Regarding the second part:
It s a good idea to write the comment/question using a word processor and then copy and paste, especially if it is a long comment.
– Also, note that a given comment SHOULD NOT be revised after an hour. It will not be revised. Some people had the original post deleted when they tried to revise it after an hour.If one has NOT lost the ability to get into a jhana by the time of death, they WILL BE born in a Brahma realm corresponding to that jhana.
– That is true for an Ariya or anariya jhana.The following details are important.
1. If one attains an Ariya jhana, that comes with or after getting into at least the Sotapanna Anugāmi stage. Then the ability to get into jhana will never be lost. Thus, they WILL BE born in a Brahma realm.2. Conversely, anariya jhanas may be “lost.”
– Someone who attained an anariya jhāna may lose the ability to get into it later.
– For example, Devadatta had attained the highest (anariya) jhana but lost that ability after he injured the Buddha and was involved in Sanghabedha too. Thus, he lost the “good anantariya kamma” and gained a “bad anantariya kamma” by his death and was born in an apāya.Good job, y not. You and I posted almost at the same time!
P.S. If anyone knows the names of suttas for the accounts described in #4 of the post, “Why a Sotāpanna is Better off than any King, Emperor, or a Billionaire,” please post.
It is “Khettūpama Sutta (SN 42.7).”
I just revised the post in question to include another reference as well:
“Why a Sotāpanna is Better off than any King, Emperor, or a Billionaire”Please provide the name of the post (like I did above) instead of stating “this post.” That is more informative.
Yes. Lang’s description requires a good understanding of Paticca Samuppada.
You can see that most current translators of Paticca Samuppada from Pali to English do not understand these necessary detailed explanations.
– See, “Distortion of Pāli Keywords in Paṭicca Samuppāda”They simply translate “avijjā paccayā saṅkhārā, saṅkhāra paccayā viññāṇa,” as “Ignorance is a condition for choices. Choices are a condition for consciousness.” Then they translate the Patiloma (Reverse) Paticca Samuppada of “avijjā nirodhā saṅkhāra nirodho, saṅkhāra nirodhā viññāṇa nirodho” as “When ignorance ceases, choices cease. When choices cease, consciousness ceases.”
– That does not make sense since an Arahant would still generate saṅkhāra and would still have consciousness!
– They need to explain that the niddesa version of Paticca Samuppada is, “avijjā paccayā abhisaṅkhārā, abhisaṅkhāra paccayā kammaviññāṇa,” Several other terms need to be expanded.
– Then, they need to further explain each term in detail, as I pointed out in my earlier post.See, also, “Sutta Interpretation – Uddēsa, Niddēsa, Paṭiniddēsa“
The problem got worse in recent days. You may have seen many hits to the “Redirection page.”
Seng Kiat Ng, co-administrator of this website, has figured out the problem.
As he stated, “This problem is related to the diacritic character of Pāli’s word in the URL links where previously it was working fine. Those URL links with diacritic characters are not recognized and return a Redirection Page.”
He is painstakingly making the necessary corrections, and many of those links are working now.
But, as he stated, “it may take some time to do it as there are many such URL links with the diacritic character.”Much merits to Seng Kiat for his dedication!
That is an excellent way to put it, Lang!
Those “mental aspects/qualities” arise when a set of rupa (that once one experienced, plans to experience, or currently experience) is “kept close in one’s mind” (i.e., one has upādāna for them).
As one progresses on the Noble Path, that set will keep shrinking.
– An Arahant would not upādāna any component of rupakkhandha.
– Note that memories of past rupa in rupakkhandha experienced with the mind directly, via “manañca paṭicca dhamme ca uppajjāti manoviññāṇaṃ.” See #4 of, “Vipāka Vēdanā and “Samphassa jā Vēdanā” in a Sensory Event.”
– Understanding these details lead to getting rid of sakkāya diṭṭhi. See, “Paṭicca Samuppāda – A “Self” Exists Due to Avijjā”
– That whole process is discussed systematically in “Worldview of the Buddha.” The above two posts are part of this section.P.S. To emphasize: All attachments start with an ārammaṇa, i.e., sensory contacts between an internal rupa and external rupa. (six types, including mana/dhamma).
– But attachment happens via all five aggregates of rupa, vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāṇa. It is important to see the details as explained by Lang.
– That is why it is “pañca upādāna khandhā.”I may have to re-write that whole post with a new title. That may take a few days.
But I have revised #1 as follows:
“For example, the concept of anicca is understood gradually—from the Sotapanna Anugāmi stage to the Sotāpanna stage. Then how that anicca nature leads to suffering (dukkha) is fully grasped in stages — strengthening at the Sakadāgāmi and Anāgāmi stages — and is fully comprehended at the Arahant stage.”
