Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
“The question remains, why those two extra categories of dukkha (dukkha dukkha, viparinama dukkha)?”
I am not sure why you say that because “dukkha” can mean either “actual suffering” or the “causes for suffering,” as I explained above.
– Dukkha dukkha and viparinama dukkha are in the first category.
– Sankhara dukkha is included in both categories.“The world is made by sankhara/sankata of uncountable beings, thus a single being will experience bad vipaka based on the result of all sankhara (which we call “planet earth”).”
Each one reaps the fruits of their kamma, especially regarding rebirths.
– Of course, the world is made due to the “collective kamma” of all beings.
– Also, there can be some “unaccounted suffering” due to things like floods, earthquakes, etc. But those also arise BECAUSE one is born into that existence.
– But rebirths are ALWAYS due to one’s kamma.“The reason why I asked is that there are rūpa(hadaya vatthu) in arūpa realm. So arūpa dhātu is not same the arūpa loka.”
Yes. There are rūpa (hadaya vatthu of the Brahmas) in Arupa loka.
Arūpa dhātu are rupa below the suddhāṭṭhaka stage, i.e., those are kammic energies or dhammā.
That is an important point. See “What are Rūpa? – Dhammā are Rūpa too!”So, the sutta in question, “Dhātu Sutta (Iti 51)” states a highly condensed idea/explanation.
– All “tangible rupa” in this world can be put under rūpa dhātu.
– They all arise due to arūpa dhātu (or kamma bija or dhammā)Stopping the arising of arūpa dhātu (or kamma bija or dhammā) will stop the arising of rūpa dhātu and will lead to nirodha dhātu or Nibbana!
OK. As long as you understand that kama guna and attachments are two different things.
As I said, an Arahant does not lose the “sweetness of sugar” upon attaining Arahanthood.
– But, he does lose any attachment to the taste of sugar.This issue could be a problem with exchanging ideas with words.
For example, you asked: “How can Arhant recognise it as beautiful?”
– You may be implying that the Arahant would not be attracted to a beautiful woman. If so, that is right.
– But just like the issue of sugar, Arahant would see the difference between a “beautiful woman” and a “not so beautiful woman” per kama guna.
– Attachment is different from “natural perception” due to kama guna.“However, Recently during contemplate it occured to me, that kama guna, vipakā vēdanā and samphassa-jā-vēdanā all three are PURELY SUBJECTIVE AND CONDITIONAL right?”
No. That is not right.
– “Kama guna” go with each bhava. Something that may appear enticing to a dog could be disgusting to us (e.g., feces).
– “Vipaka vedana” may APPEAR as good (attractive) or bad (repulsive) depending on the kama guna. For example, the grass is appealing to cows, but not to us.
– samphassa-jā-vēdanā is PURELY SUBJECTIVE AND CONDITIONAL.You wrote: “You said somewhere that even Arhant might “recognise” beautiful women as beautiful women.”
“Kama guna” and “attaching to kama guna” are two different things.
– An Arahant would see a beautiful woman as a beautiful woman just as they would taste sugar to be sweet or feces to be stinky. But they would not be attracted to that woman or sugar or repulsed by feces.You may want to read some of the following posts:
“Search Results for: kama guna“In Buddha Dhamma, “dukkha” is not just “suffering.” It can be “suffering” or “cause for suffering,” depending on the context.
– In fact, the First Noble Truth is about “causes of suffering.” That is sankhara arising due to avijja!We can look at it this way.
– sankhara dukkha can be in both categories.
– Dukkha dukkha and viparinama dukkha fall under “suffering” or “vipaka.”Let me give a brief outline.
1. Everything in this world is included in the six dhatu (basic elements) of pathavi, āpo, tejo, vāyo, ākāsa, and viññāṇa.
2. The first sutta above says that all suffering in this world arises from the six dhatu.
– Hint: They arise at the patisandhi moment of grasping a new bhava.3. The third sutta says they all have the anicca nature (i.e., created due to causes and destroyed when those causes wear away). That is because that “creation/arising” happens via Paticca Samuppada. All bhava and jati end up in death.
4. The second sutta states the “elements” responsible for that Paticca Samuppada process: “The elements of sensuality, malice, and cruelty.”
5. The fourth sutta states how (abhi)saṅkhāra in “avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra” in PS arise due to attachments to (things in this world) based on the six dhatu (pathavi, āpo, tejo, vāyo, ākāsa, and viññāṇa.)
– Such attachments defile a mind (“cetaso upakkileso“) and lead to “avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra”. Here “upakkilesa” means “pulling close kilesa to mind.”
– We discussed kilesa in the recent post, “Kilesa – Relationship to Akusala, Kusala, and Puñña Kamma”6. The final sutta says when one understands the above, one comprehends “Rūpa dhātu, arūpa dhātu, nirodha dhātu.”
– That will lead the stopping of rūpadhātu and arūpadhātu from arising and lead to the “ultimate element” of Nibbana or nirodha dhātu.Yes. Saṅkhāra-dukkha may arise in both ways.
– For example, one must make an effort when trying to possess something. Then, depending on what types of kamma were done, those actions will bring vipaka later.
– All three types of dukkha arise via “avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra.”One type of dukkha-dukkha (physical suffering) is vipaka.
– The other type of mental suffering, “domanassa vedana,” may arise due to the above vipaka vedana. That is absent in an Arahant, even though the first would still be there.Sutta Central translation there is:
“Liking, disliking, and both liking and disliking have come up in me.”That is good. I may state it as:
“Liking, disliking, and both liking and disliking may arise in me.”That happens when an arammana comes in through one of the six sensory inputs.
– “both liking and disliking may arise in me” seems a bit confusing.
– That is possibly the case when one is uncertain whether that arammana is good or bad.All three possibilities arise when one is “unaware of the real nature” (na pajānāti) of such arammana.
A Noble person would know with wisdom (pajānāti) how such arammana arise via Paticca Samuppada and thus, would not be swayed by them.
I have made significant revisions to the post “The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka”
I will look at the other posts that I referenced above. If I revise any of them, I will mention that here.
P.S. Revised: “Bhūta and Yathābhūta – What Do They Really Mean“
The following is not a word-by-word translation. I will try to convey the meaning.
What is the “great danger (“mahabbhayan“)” (in the rebirth process)?
The great danger is suffering (in the rebirth process).Suffering is two-fold: physical (felt by the body) and mental.
– Physical suffering is pain (due to injuries, sicknesses, etc.)
– Mental suffering is “domanassa vedana” arising in mind.Suffering is three-fold: Dukkha dukkhatā, saṅkhāra dukkhatā, vipariṇāma dukkhatā.
– From those three, “the great danger” is “saṅkhāra dukkhatā.”
– That is because the rebirth process is maintained by saṅkhāra generation (via “avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra.”) Thus, once overcoming the saṅkhāra dukkhatā the other two are also removed, and one will get to Nibbāna (Saṅkhāradukkhatāya pana loko anupādisesāya nibbānadhātuyā muccati,)The post that discusses the three types of suffering is: “Introduction -2 – The Three Categories of Suffering.”
Dhātu is conventionally translated to English as “Element.”
– But, the real meaning (depending on context) comes with a broad understanding of different concepts.There are several “Dhātu Suttas” that state various aspects.
– First, take a look at them to get a general idea.
– I will try to write a post on it. It is a deep subject, but it is probably the right time to get into it. There are enough people who are at a level to understand.5. “Dhātu Sutta (Iti 51)”
I have arranged them roughly in an “ascending order” based on the “depth.” But that is subjective.
Take the time also to read the following posts (and references in them as needed) and ask questions. I hope others will get involved too. That may help with writing a post. But it may not be necessary to write a post.
Relevant Posts:
– Not necessarily in order. The point is that dhātu, “gati,” “bhuta,” “suddhāṭṭhaka,” are related and arise via Paticca Samuppada.
– Understanding that helps stop those processes and get to the “ultimate element” of Nibbana.Our Two Worlds: Material and Immaterial
The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka
Bhūta and Yathābhūta – What Do They Really Mean
“Is there another usage of dhātu?”
Yes. Words can have different meanings depending on context.
That is true not only in Pali but in many languages. Following are some examples:
I left my phone on the left side of the room.
The baseball pitcher asked for a pitcher of water.
The committee chair sat in the center chair.
The crane (a bird) flew above the construction crane.
She will park the car so we can walk in the park.The answer becomes clear when you list the factors involved in “recalling a memory.”
1. All memories (namagotta) from eons ago are in vinnana dhatu and will always be there.
– That is why a Buddha can recall any event in the past as far back as he wants.
– See “Where Are Memories Stored? – Viññāṇa Dhātu”2. Hadaya vatthu is the seat of the mind. It is the major component of gandhabba. Gandhabba is inside the physical body, and the hadaya vatthu (together with the five pasada rupa) is located close to the physical heart (not inside the heart).
– Memories from the vinnana dhatu (in the external world) come through the mana indriya in the brain. Of course, science is not aware of that.
– Thus, even though the brain is not where the memories are (as scientists believe), the brain plays a significant role in extracting memories.
– See “Brain – Interface between Mind and Body”3. Thus, the ability to recall memories depends on the brain. In the worse case, a person with Alzheimer’s disease may not be able to recall much of anything.
– Average humans can recall mostly events from this life, not all of them.
– But, few people have exceptional memory recall (HSAM). That supports the idea of all memories (namagotta) remain intact in vinnana dhatu. See “Recent Evidence for Unbroken Memory Records (HSAM)”4. Therefore, this “misinformation effect” of not being able to recall memories correctly is to do with the brain.
– All average humans have that issue to some extent.
– Those with HSAM have brains that can recall past events in this life with high accuracy due to what is called “punna iddhi” or a type of kamma vipaka. It is not that they have higher intelligence, as mentioned in that post.
– We know that some children can recall one or two past lives.
– But if one can cultivate abhinna powers by cultivating higher jhana, one will be able to recall even past lives. Some yogis can recall many past lives, but none can recall lives far back as a Buddha.
