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Yes. Ultimately that is right.
– When one does not understand the true nature of the world (4NT/tilakkhana/PS), one could become confused about how to respond to some arammana or may respond to them unwisely. That leads to the agitation of mind, which is not conducive to the lightness of mind (pāmojjaṁ) and joy (pīti).The verse that Jorg quoted is in several suttas; see, for example, “Paṭhamaupanisa Sutta (AN 10.3)”
– The English translation there translates avippaṭisāra as “no regrets.” It is related, but not quite the same.You can read AN 10.1, 10.2, and a few more suttas following AN 10.3. That may help solidify the understanding.
Yes! Excellent.
“Dukkha” (“dukha” + “khaya”) is “dukha” that can be “overcome or removed” (khaya). “Dukha” is the suffering felt.
LDF wrote: “I think that drinking analogy is valid for realms above human realms.”
– No. It is valid for all realms.
Any dukha or sukha felt in the current life is due to “panca upadana khandha” in previous lives. In that analogy, “poison was consumed” in a previous life, and one now reaps the results (vipaka).
– The Buddha was injured once and had several other ailments like back pain. That was not because of “panca upadana khandha” after the Buddhahood.
– “panca upadana khandhā dukkhā” means “attaching to pancakkhandha is the cause of future suffering.”LDF wrote: “Another interesting insight is that is only because Gandhabba is kammicaly trapped in human body, that when three types of buddha removes PañcaUpādānaKhandha, they are also able to guide others to it, without instantly attaining parinibbana, isn’t it?”
– Yes. That is correct. A gandhabba of a Buddha or an Arahant can stay alive only until the kammic energy to sustain that physical body is there. Had Buddha’s physical body died right after attaining Buddhahood, his gandhabba would have perished, and he would have attained Parinibbana.
Yes. That is exactly right.
A tihetuka person WILL NOT be born without sota pasada rupa.
– But their eardrum or some other part of the brain may be damaged, and they may lose hearing.
– If they can repair that damage or use a hearing aid, they may be able to hear.The following account is from the post “Gandhabba in a Human Body – an Analogy”
Sometimes people are born with the cakkhu pasāda rūpa in good condition, but the optic nerve (or the physical eye itself) may be damaged. In that case, they cannot see because the brain is not getting a signal from the eyes.
But if the gandhabba can come out of the body, it can see by itself. The following video clearly illustrates this situation.Note that she had “never seen anything” in her whole life. It seems that either her physical eyes or the optic nerve/visual cortex in the brain had been damaged at birth. But the cakkhu pasāda rūpa was fully functional. That is why she was able to see when the gandhabba came out of her body.
– However, in other cases, one may be born blind because one may not be born with the cakkhu pasāda rūpa. In that case, even if the gandhabba comes out of the body, it would not be able to see.You don’t need to prove attaining a magga phala to anyone else, LDF.
– You can verify for yourself, and no one else can confirm or deny that.Furthermore, different people get rid of sakkaya ditthi in different ways.
– There is a sutta where the Buddha gave an analogy. One time, a bhikkhu went around asking other bhikkhus (who had declared attaining the Sotapanna stage) how to describe the Sotapanna stage. Each one gave different descriptions of the Sotapanna stage.
– That bhikkhu got confused and complained to the Buddha. The Buddha gave an analogy of asking someone to describe a tree that had a unique trunk (black), unique flowers (bright red looking like pieces of red meat), and unique leaves (specific unique shape). Some people would identify the tree as having that unique trunk, some others describe it with flowers or leaves. But they all had seen the tree!
– I don’t remember the name of that sutta.
– P.S. There are two main conclusions reached when one gets to the Sotapanna stage: One would have “seen with wisdom (panna)” that (i) there is no “permanent self” traveling the rebirth process (it happens via Paticca Samuppada), (ii) it is fruitless AND dangerous to be in the rebirth process (because most rebirths are in the apayas).By the way, here is a post that describes “temporary bhavanga”: “Bhava and Bhavaṅga – Simply Explained!“
I am glad that you understood that section. If one understands that, one can eliminate Sakkaya Ditthi, as you seem to have.
1. You wrote: “How an extremely small bit of matter powered by kammic energy can create so much suffering.”
– Yes. Many people may not fully understand how small a suddhatthaka is. It is much smaller than an atom in modern science. Yet, the “seat of the mind,” hadaya vatthu, is just a single suddhatthaka energized by kammic energy. Our huge physical body is no different from a huge tree trunk (i.e., lifeless) when that gandhabba with the hadaya vatthu leaves (at Death or in an NDE/OBE).
2. You asked: “1. looking from POV of bhavanga, sottapana has removed all apayagami bhavanga. because all citta/cetasika corresponding to those strengths are removed/reduced in javana. right?”
– You mean “temporary bhavanga,” not the “bhavanga” one is born with. Yes. One can get into an “immoral temporary bhavanga” if a tempting arammana comes to mind IF one still has anusaya. So, since a Sotapanna has removed “apayagami anusaya,” their mind will not be tempted by such an arammana and thus will not get into such a “temporary bhavanga.”
2. So, we can revise your #2 as follows: “2. As we progress, the possibility to get into more such “temporary bhavanga” are removed because less and less arammana with which we get stuck via tanha.”
– Here is another way to say the same thing: “As we progress, the possibility of getting into bad gati will be removed because corresponding anusaya will be gone.”4. You wrote: “And sense restrain will take care of food coming through contact, isn’t it?
We must deprive fire (of jati) by reducing/stopping the throwing of wood logs (through four foods) in it and also stop the supply of oxygen (three san), right?”
– That is exactly right.Your post was perfectly fine. It shows that you have a good understanding.
Regarding: “I don’t understand very complex details about two types of NamaRupa but I did understood the basic connecting point between namarupa and sakkāya diṭṭhi, how kamma viññāṇa is bridge between mind and matter.”
– You grasped the most crucial aspect, i.e., that kamma viññāṇa is the bridge between mind and matter.
– The longer one engages in abhisankhara formation (whether vaci or kaya abhisankhara), the more kamma viññāṇa one accumulates, generating “namarupa” in mind (with “vinnana paccaya namarupa”). Those three processes (“avijja paccaya sankhara,” sankhara paccaya vinnana,” and “vinnana paccaya namarupa”) may go back and forth uncountable times, generating “namarupa” or “kamma bija” that get deposited in vinnana dhatu.
– That is what powers future rebirths at cuti-patisandhi moments, taking one of such kamma bija and transforming it into a manomaya kaya with several suddhatthaka (hadaya vatthu and a set of pasada rupa).Your last statement: “Just wanted to share the decision about lifestyle change after the realisation occurred as per your comment that some elephants must be deprived by not giving them food for time until they’re very weak” captures the way to implement that understanding.
– Food for vinnana is vaci and kaya abhisankhara!
– The key is to stop generating vaci and kaya abhisankhara by “engaging with a mind-pleasing arammana.” That will weaken such kamma viññāṇa and eventually eliminate them. P.S. By the way, vaci abhisankhara (just talking to oneself OR speaking out) is as bad as engaging in bodily actions with kaya abhisankhara.
– The Buddha used different terminology for that process: Anapanasati, Satipatthana, Indriya Bhavana, etc. Ariyakanata Sila is the same thing.Welcome to the forum, namo0804!
Thank you for taking the time to write.I revised your comment as follows. I am hoping that would possibly better express your thoughts in English. Please feel free to correct where I did not get it right.
********
“These days, I quickly become aware when a bad thought (with bad cetana) comes to my mind.
Let me share my experience.In my case, I have a habit of spending too much time blaming myself when I accidentally do something bad. Instead, I need to realize why it was a bad deed, that it can have bad consequences, and stop there.
– Blaming myself for too long is not the solution. But I do need to see the adinava of such bad actions.
– Now I realize that spending too much time blaming myself will delay getting to samadhi.
– When I keep blaming myself, my mind becomes agitated, which is the opposite of samadhi!
– Now, once I realize a mistake, I promise not to repeat it and forget about it. Spending time regretting what happened will only make me agitated.
– That was also a vicious cycle that led to adding more Saṅ every moment.
– Fortunately, I remembered (the Dosakkayo’s writing) that I had read before.Since then, I thought it would be better to cultivate the opposite habit. For example, I must cultivate metta often if I get angry quickly.
Also, if I can maintain a calm mindset, it will be less likely for bad thoughts to arise.
– Contemplating the harmful consequences of bad behavior made my mind calmer.My aggression gradually decreased, and my mind became peaceful.
Ven Lal always said that understanding Dhamma could not be enforced.
– Now I could empathize with what he emphasized.I was able to experience that practicing Dhamma (living according to Dhamma) is different from just thinking about it or enforce about it myself (i.e., trying to implement a set of rules).
Cleaning the mind of kilesa(or Saṅ) was the most important thing!
– Now I understand the meanings of the Dhammapada Verse 239(Verse 239 – The Story of a Brāhmin).
– I hope this experience could be of some help to others.May the blessing of triple gem be with all beings!”
***********Thank you again for sharing your experience.
I have not seen them specifically attributed like that. But I have heard some discourses by Waharaka Thero, where he mentioned such possible connections.
Normally, pathavi, apo, tejo, and vayo are attributed to avijja (moha) and vanna, gandha, rasa, oja to tanha. I think this categorization is more standard.
However, it seems logical to attribute apo to greed (but one can also attach via anger) and pathavi (and tejo) to anger. It is also logical to attribute tejo to avijja (moha) since uddacca is removed only at the Arahant stage with a last bit of avijja.
– Vayo is not likely to be associated with lobha or dosa but more with avijja (uncertainty).Wise thoughts and reflections, LayDhammaFollower!
1. There is no “person” going through the rebirth process (in the sense of a “permanent soul”).
2. What we experience now is vipaka of deeds (kamma) done in the past. Is the “experiencer” the same as the “doer”?
– We cannot pick one of those two answers. Since “we” keep changing, we cannot say “yes.” On the other hand, “me/I” AT the PRESENT MOMENT has evolved from past actions, and thus we cannot say “no” either. The key is to realize that as long as we have the wrong view (diṭṭhi) and perception (saññā) that “this world can be beneficial for ‘me'” suffering cannot be stopped.3. As long as past actions CAN bring their results (vipaka), suffering will continue. Those conditions arise due to lobha, dosa, and moha (ignorance of the Noble Truths about this world.)
4. We can stop those past actions (kamma) from bringing their results (vipaka). That is the key. That is done by losing the craving for worldly things. That requires understanding Buddha Dhamma (Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana) AND living according to Dhamma (ariyakanta sila) to lose cravings for worldly things.
5. The suffering (not only in this life, but especially in the apayas) is real (we can surely see the suffering in the animal realm), and our current actions can stop future suffering. That is the bottom line.
Jorg asked: “Does this verse also imply that this puts one in a more advantageous position of cultivating the path, e.g., cultivating an understanding of tilakkhana?”
Yes. Honoring (and taking care of) the wise (especially Noble Persons, parents, wise elders, etc.) helps set the necessary background to cultivate the Noble Path. It will help in this life and also in future lives.
– One who cultivates such prerequisites (also including giving, cultivating metta, etc.) will lead to rebirths conducive to cultivating the path. One will be reborn to a family with the right background (so that one will be exposed to Buddha Dhamma) and have a long healthy life.“Vuddhapacayino” comes from “vuddha” for elderly/wise, and “apacāyana” means to respect.
– Those who honor and respect the wise/Noble will get to a (mundane) “nicca” state where one’s expectations (on making progress on the Path) can be expected to be fulfilled.
– “Bala” here is not just physical strength but also “having enough resources” like enough health/wealth/wisdom so as not to be distracted from the Path.Good comment by Dosakkhayo.
Yes. I forgot to mention the sense of relief (niramisa sukha) separating from sensual pleasures. It is like reducing the load that one carries.
See “Bhāra Sutta (SN 22.22)“
Yes. There are many useful videos on Youtube.
– I like it and will give it a try. Thanks for the suggestion.The following series of videos is good:
Yash and LDF asked: “Also Lal mentioned “At the end of the “Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22)” the Buddha promised that one would attain at least the Anagami stage in two weeks if one practiced it incessantly;”
So what exactly should be done, Lal. I mean can you provide a structure from where should one start from to attain the stage within a fortnight?”As always, statements need to be taken in context. Let me write down some bullet points. We can discuss any of them if you have questions.
1. The time limits mentioned are specifically for bhikkhus. Attaining the Angami stage is practically impossible for a “householder” living a family life, as I have explained many times. By definition, anyone engaging in sex or related activities will not be able to attain the Anagami stage.
2. Even for bhikkhus, those are guidelines. To get to the Anagami or Arahant stage in two weeks, one must have a high level of panna and completely immerse in the effort. A good example is Ven. Sariputta and Ven. Moggalana. Many bhikkhus in the time of the Buddha could get to those magga phala within seven years. But it can be even slower these days, primarily because the true teachings of the Buddha are not available to most people.
3. Thus, the main goal of a householder should be to make sure to get to the Sotapanna stage. But confirmation of the Sotapanna stage is not as straightforward as that of the Anagami stage. If one attains the Anagami stage, there will be no doubt in their mind. That is because kama raga WILL NOT arise in an Anagami, even if the most beautiful woman in this world comes to him and invites him for sex. But watching an adult movie (porn) is enough to confirm it, too, in most cases.
– On the other hand, there is no such reliable indicator for the Sotapanna stage.
– Therefore, getting to at least the Anagami stage, if practical, is the best confirmation.4. But abstaining from sex may not be an option for many people.
– Even in that case, reducing “extra activities” like watching porn will help one get to the Sakadagami stage. A Sakadagami still has kama raga but at a lower intensity. That is why they will not be born in the human world but only in a Deva realm.
– Furthermore, as one progresses, one can experience the lessening of kama raga. We need to remember that kama raga means much more than sex. Any cravings for sensual pleasures (including tastes, smells, and other bodily comforts) are included in kama raga. The desire to own things is reduced and then goes away before one completely loses cravings for them. The progress is gradual, but there is definite progress that one can experience, as I have.
– Another aspect is that some “bad habits” go away just by learning Dhamma. For example, I did not make a strong effort to quit drinking; of course, I was not a heavy drinker. But I used to take a drink or two almost every day while I worked. That habit gradually went away. These days, I get a headache if I have a strong drink like whiskey. I can tolerate a beer, but there is no urge to have one. That vinnana has died! My advice is to avoid all that can be avoided. Most “pleasures” are mind-made. It is our vinnana that fools us into believing that those experiences are pleasurable. I know that from experience.1 user thanked author for this post.
