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You almost got to the point, TGS.
If Ven. Sariputta was in Nirodha Samapatti, he would not have any saññā.
– But he stated that he was still perceiving, meaning he still had saññā arising.
– If one still has saññā, that means one still has citta arising. Yet, he did not perceive anything in this world (na idhaloke idhalokasaññī) or anything of paraloka (na paraloke paralokasaññī)
– Ven. Saripuatta was in Arahant phala samadhi! There only pure, undefiled citta (pabhassara citta) would arise. A pabhassara citta has only seven uncontaminated, universal cetasika (with pure saññā and vedana). That means one is ONLY aware that one is alive but does not perceive anything in the world.
– A citta normally would contaminate in nine stages. Even for Arahants, it will go through the mano, manasan stages. See “Citta, Manō, Viññāna – Nine Stages of a Thought”
– In contrast, no citta (i.e., no saññā) in nirodha samapatti: “Nirōdha Samāpatti, Phala Samāpatti, Jhāna, and Jhāna Samāpatti“I chatted with the new ChatGPT this morning, which is supposed to be a form of artificial intelligence (AI).
Following is the conversation:
Can a Creator exist?
– Yes, it is possible for a creator to exist. The concept of a creator is a common theme in many belief systems, including many religions and mythologies. In these belief systems, a creator is typically described as a divine being or force that brought the universe into existence. However, the existence of a creator is a matter of belief and cannot be proven or disproven through scientific means.Doesn’t it violate the principle of cause and effect?
– The principle of cause and effect states that every event or action has a cause that precedes it and leads to the event or action. This principle is a fundamental concept in many fields, including science, philosophy, and logic.So doesn’t the concept of a creator violate that principle?
– The concept of a creator, as it is commonly understood in many belief systems, does not necessarily violate the principle of cause and effect. In these belief systems, the creator is typically considered to be the ultimate cause of the universe and everything in it. In other words, the creator is seen as the initial cause that set the chain of events and actions in motion, leading to the universe and all of the things in it.But what caused the creator?
– The concept of a creator, as it is commonly understood in many belief systems, is typically considered to be the ultimate cause of the universe and everything in it. This means that the creator is seen as the initial cause that set the chain of events and actions in motion, leading to the universe and all of the things in it. As such, the creator is not itself caused by anything else. Rather, it is the cause of everything else.Does every cause lead to an effect?
– Yes, according to the principle of cause and effect, every cause leads to an effect. This means that every event or action has a cause that precedes it and leads to the event or action. The principle of cause and effect is a fundamental concept in many fields, including science, philosophy, and logic.Don’t the necessary conditions need to be satisfied for a cause to lead to an effect?
– Yes, it is generally believed that certain necessary conditions must be satisfied in order for a cause to lead to an effect. For example, in the scientific study of causality, it is often assumed that a cause must precede its effect in time and that the cause must be related to the effect in some way. However, the specific necessary conditions for causality can vary depending on the context and the particular approach used to study it.So your statement, “Yes, according to the principle of cause and effect, every cause leads to an effect” is wrong?
– I apologize if my previous response was unclear. While it is generally accepted that every cause leads to an effect, it is also generally believed that certain necessary conditions must be satisfied in order for this to happen. In other words, not every cause will necessarily lead to an effect unless the necessary conditions for causality are met. I hope this helps clarify my previous response.What are conditions for the world to exist if a creator set the first cause?
– It is not possible for me to answer this question definitively, as the concept of a creator and the conditions for the existence of the universe are matters of belief and interpretation. In many belief systems, the creator is considered to be the ultimate cause of the universe, setting the initial conditions and laws that govern the universe. However, the specific conditions for the existence of the universe in these belief systems can vary depending on the particular interpretation.Can we skip belief systems and stick to logic?
– Yes, we can certainly consider the concept of a creator and the conditions for the existence of the universe from a logical perspective. In this case, we would need to define the concept of a creator and the conditions for the existence of the universe in a way that is consistent with the laws of logic. This would allow us to reason about these concepts using logical arguments and draw conclusions based on the evidence and information available. However, it is important to note that the conclusions reached through logical reasoning may not necessarily align with the beliefs of any particular belief system.Belief systems can be wrong. So, i like to skip that altogether?
– It is certainly true that belief systems can be wrong or inconsistent with reality. However, it is important to recognize that belief systems also provide a framework for understanding the world and our place in it. They can offer explanations for the origins of the universe and its workings, as well as guidance for how to live a fulfilling and meaningful life. While it is important to critically evaluate belief systems and not blindly accept them, it is also important to recognize the value they can bring to our lives.It seems to me that you are just summarizing what is in books, not necessarily logical thinking.
– As a language model trained by OpenAI, my responses are based on the information that I have been trained on, which includes a wide range of text from books, articles, and other sources. I do not have the ability to browse the internet or access new information, so my responses are limited to what I have been trained on. While I can provide information and offer explanations based on the text I have been trained on, I cannot engage in original logical thinking or provide information that is not contained in my training data. I apologize if my previous responses did not make this clear.OK. I understand. Thank you!
– You’re welcome. I’m glad I could help clarify. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask and I will do my best to provide a helpful response based on the information I have been trained on.
*************I have bolded the critical statements from the ChatGPT at the end.
– There is no “intelligence” involved in the sense of original, logical thinking. Only humans are capable of that.
– But it can quickly summarize what it has learned based on the information fed to it by the programmers!1 user thanked author for this post.
In my last comment I stated:
“Furthermore, different people get rid of sakkaya ditthi in different ways.
– There is a sutta where the Buddha gave an analogy. One time, a bhikkhu went around asking other bhikkhus (who had declared attaining the Sotapanna stage) how to describe the Sotapanna stage. Each one gave different descriptions of the Sotapanna stage.
– That bhikkhu got confused and complained to the Buddha. The Buddha gave an analogy of asking someone to describe a tree that had a unique trunk (black), unique flowers (bright red looking like pieces of red meat), and unique leaves (specific unique shape). Some people would identify the tree as having that unique trunk, some others describe it with flowers or leaves. But they all had seen the tree!
– I don’t remember the name of that sutta.”The sutta is “Kiṁsukopama Sutta (SN 35. 245)”
Following is a Wikipedia article on that tree the Buddha referred to:
“Butea monosperma”
– In the above English translation, it is referred to as a “parrot tree.”
– In Sri Lanka, it is called a “කෑල tree,” as the Wikipedia article mentions.
– The article has pictures of it in different seasons.Yes. Our bodies are “vipaka kaya” dependently originated.
– Furthermore, they are built around a manomaya kaya which arises due to kammic energies created by our (javana) citta!
(A manomaya kaya (made of suddhatthaka) arises due to kammic energy created by our javana citta. Then the physical body grows according to that blueprint with energy from the food we eat.)Thus, our physical bodies are not only dependently originated but originated via our minds.
– It is somewhat like a magician’s work.
– That is why kamma vinnana (in javana citta) is like a magician. Something created by a magician is flimsy!The following link has that verse and the English translation there:
“Girimānanda Sutta (AN 10.60)”You may be focusing on the English translation of “asuci” as “many kinds of filth.”
The Pali word “suci” means “pure.” Asuci means “impure.”
– Depending on the context, one could take asuci to mean “filth” or even “feces.”
– But here, it means just impure.The message here is that our bodies are a collection of parts. Furthermore, such a body is subject to many ailments.
– It is of no benefit to making such bodies in future lives.
– As I wrote earlier, we must avoid generating “patigha saññā” or revulsion during meditation. We need to understand the true nature of our physical bodies (yathabhuta ñāna.)P.S. The last verse you quoted is “Ayaṁ vuccatānanda, asubhasaññā”
– Asubhasaññā is not about revulsion (or “perception of ugliness” in the above English translation.) Asubha means “not beneficial.”“Regarding the words “gatō vā,“ is gatō related to gati?”
No. “gatō vā“ means “once got to” or “once arrived at.”
– The deeper meaning is to cultivate a mind that is free of struggles to keep material possessions, a mindset that cannot be disturbed
easily with sensory attractions, etc., as described in that post.As you mentioned, it could mean both the mundane and the deeper meaning.
– One could go to a forest, to the foot of a tree … (or a quiet place), and that would help too. Doing a “formal mediation” in a noisy environment would be difficult.
– However, the deeper meaning applies whether one is doing a formal mediation OR “being mindful at all times.”Thank you.
Meevanapalane Thero’s discourses contain essentially the same teachings published on this website.
– Of course, there could be minor differences.
– Also, I have not read the English translation. I am not sure how accurate it is.This is a good question. I need to write a post or two on the subject.
1. First, the conventional spelling is “pujā” even though it is pronounced, “poojā.”
2. “Pujā” is normally translated as homage or devotional offering. However, it has a deeper meaning of “making a suitable background/environment for spiritual development (to attain Nibbana.)
3. As we all know, Buddha Gotama is no longer in this world. So, it is not a “devotional offering” for Buddha Gotama.
– Of course, a pujā in his name symbolizes our gratitude to the Buddha for teaching us how to stop suffering in the rebirth process.4. There are two ways to “make an offering” or pujā. (i) Āmisa pujā and (ii) Paṭipatti pujā
– The first type, Āmisa pujā, is to offer food, clothes, etc., that can be used. Of course, that does not apply to a Buddha pujā.
– It is the second type of Paṭipatti pujā that applies in this case. The Buddha taught that the best way to honor him would be to follow his teachings and attain Nibbāna.5. Thus, we must figure out how to conduct a proper Paṭipatti Buddha pujā.
– The customary way is to offer flowers, incense, and light. All three have deeper meanings and also set the background for formal meditation.6. We offer beautiful flowers to the Buddha. But we know those flowers would lose beauty in a day or two. That symbolizes the “anicca nature.” We contemplate that our bodies are like those flowers (if we are still young.) Our parents/grandparents had young and vibrant bodies while they were young, but now some have decaying bodies with ailments, and others may be dead. That is the fundamental nature of this world.
– If you have seen incense sticks, they are pretty straight. They symbolize one’s character (gati.) If one is truthful and does not engage in any immoral behavior, one does not need to “bend to ask for forgiveness.” You may have seen people being arrested for crimes; they try to hide their faces with their heads bowed.
– Furthermore, the odor/smell of incense is not like that of perfume. People wear perfume to parties. The smell of incense is not suitable for a party atmosphere but has a calming effect.
– Light symbolizes wisdom, the opposite of darkness which symbolizes ignorance.
– Furthermore, oil lamps with wicks soaked in coconut oil are typically used. That has a deeper meaning too. Such a lamp will extinguish if the oil or the wick burns out. In the same way, our bodies will die when the kammic energy that sustains this human bhava runs out or the lifetime of this physical body comes to an end. Thus we must be mindful of the limited time we have to make progress on the path. Thus, it also symbolizes the anicca nature.7. Of course, people normally recite verses while engaging in such offerings. Those verses have meanings too. See “Buddhist Chanting.”
8. If such an offering is made with the proper mindset, that makes one’s mind calm and peaceful. That is why it is done before a formal meditation session or listening to a discourse.
Please feel free to comment or ask questions. That will help me write a couple of posts in the future too.
– I will write about Bodhi pujā later on, either here or in a post. It is not about just blindly “worshipping a tree.” The Bodhi tree is a special tree that will stay alive through the end of this Buddha Sāsana, 2500 years from now.It is not like ‘H’ in the word “Have” in those words you quoted.
– There, the letter in front of the “H” must be emphasized.
– The audio files for those words are at “Pāli Glossary – (A-K)” and “Pāli Glossary – (L-Z)”However, if the letter “H” is at the beginning of a Pali word, it is pronounced as in the word “Have.”
Any verse in a sutta needs to be analyzed in context. The above verses refer to when our Bodhisatta went through six years of “unfruitful efforts,” subjecting the body to hardships.
Again, it is a good idea to read a sutta with Plai and English side-by-side (keeping in mind that translations of some verses are incorrect). I am linking to emphasize the above point (“Before my awakening”):
“Mahāsaccaka Sutta (MN 36)”The translation is correct here:
“So I cut off my breathing through my mouth and nose and ears
So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, mukhato ca nāsato ca kaṇṇato ca assāsapassāse uparundhiṁ.”
– The Bodhisatta was trying a practice implemented by some ascetics to “remove defilements by subjecting the body to hardships.” “assāsapassāsa” in the above verse DOES refer to “breathing in and out.” He was forcefully stopping breathing in and out. This is why it is CRITICAL to note the context. Read the whole sutta, not just specific verses.But the translation of the first verse you quoted is INCORRECT:
“‘Why don’t I keep practicing the breathless absorption?’
yannūnāhaṁ appāṇakaṁyeva jhānaṁ jhāyeyyan’ti.”
– Here, “jhānaṁ jhāyeyyan’ti” is INCORRECTLY translated as “breathless absorption.”
– As we have discussed, “jhāyi” means to “burn,” specifically to “burn defilements.” The Bodhisatta thought, “Why don’t I try burning defilements (by stop breathing)”?
– See “Jhāna, Jhāya, and Jhāyi – Different Meanings”This is why it is dangerous to translate (or read) Pali suttas word-by-word without understanding the context!
I don’t want to encourage people to go off on tangents. But those who have the above mindset to explore new avenues of collecting and processing information this thread could be helpful.
I am trying to decide on a “note-taking app.” The “Obsidian app” proposed by Dosakkhayo seems to be good, and I just ran into another called “Napkin”:
I have made a few revisions to the post, “Kamma and Saṅkhāra, Cetanā and Sañcetanā.”
But I think it is time to write a series of posts on the following topic.
– Arising of citta (loosely translated as “thoughts”) is a purely mechanical process. It happens within a billionth of a second.
– Then how is it that we have “willpower” to change our destiny?
– That requires systematic analysis. There is sufficient background material on the website, and there are enough people who will be able to follow.It is primarily humans who have willpower.
– For example, animals are essentially robots who instinctively respond to sensory inputs (arammana.) But that is not to say they don’t have feelings. They do, and they suffer tremendously. But they are helpless (that is the true meaning of “anatta“) because they cannot alter their destiny.
– Even most Devas and Brahmas are like that. They enjoy their mental states until the sustaining kammic energy runs out. Of course, Devas and Brahmas with magga phala do have willpower because their gati have been permanently altered (no going back to bad gati.)
– That is why the Buddha said that human bhava is precious and not to be wasted!
– Those interested in the new series may want to grasp the essential aspects of Abhidhamma in the Abhidhamma section.Yes. The post you mentioned above is related too. I can try to revise it tomorrow. Please feel to ask more questions so that I can incorporate them.
Good observation.
Fundamental Concepts:
A set of cetasika arise automatically according to gati/arammana. There are 52 cetasika, but 25 are good (sobhana) cetasika that arise with “good gati” and 14 bad (asobhana) cetasika associated with “bad gati.” Six cetasika may arise with good or bad gati, and seven “universal cetasika” arise with every citta.
– Two of the universal cetasika — vedana and sanna — also arise according to one’s gati; the other five are “managerial cetasika” doing various functions; cetana is one of those.
– Thus, cetana is a universal cetasika in EVERY citta. It is the cetasika responsible for putting together all relevant cetasika ACCORDING TO one’s gati and the particular arammana (sensory input.)
– Cetana does its work automatically, within the rise of the citta (< billionth of a second.) The initial set of cetasika arising in response to an arammana define mano sankhara. - If the mind attaches to that arammana, it may start adding more good or bad cetasika while doing vaci sankhara. - That process may be intensified with kaya sankhara. See "Cetasika (Mental Factors)” and “Saṅkhāra – What It Really Means”
– May be I should write a post on those connections? The above two posts may not show the connection.Thank you for your kind words, LDF.
– I am impressed that you read the series on “Origin of Life” a few times!1. I was born to a Buddhist family. I remember attending the Sunday “Dhamma school” at the village temple, taking precepts on Poya (Full Moon) days, and regularly visiting the temple to offer flowers/incense to the Buddha, followed by listening to a discourse by a bhikkhu.
– After I started attending Ananda College, one of the premier Buddhist schools in Sri Lanka, such activities were reduced. But Buddhism was taught through high school. Then I went through four years of undergraduate studies focusing on physics.2. From my early years, I wanted to “get to the bottom” of any subject, and thus I read everything I could get my hands on. I think that mindset led me naturally to specialize in physics. I came to the United States for graduate studies and have been here since then. I worked at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory after getting my Ph.D. and taught a few courses at the close-by University of Tennessee, Knoxville.
3. Even though I liked doing research, I was getting “burned out” with administrative responsibilities and keeping up with environmental compliance activities. So, I took early retirement. I started reading widely again and naturally started thinking seriously about Buddha Dhamma. I had the essential background, but there were many “unanswered questions.” Thanks to the internet, I could listen to discourses by many prominent bhikkhus in Sri Lanka and elsewhere.
4. That went on for almost five years before I listened to a discourse by Venerable Meewanapalane Siri Dhammalankara on July 31, 2013. That discourse changed my life. I immediately realized that it was Buddha’s teachings. Within a few months, I went to Sri Lanka, met a few people (including that Thero), and gathered some recommendations. By that time, I learned that Waharaka Thero had uncovered the true teachings several years prior. Even though I made a couple more visits to Sri Lanka since then, I was never able to meet Waharaka Thero.
5. Soon after I visited Sri Lanka in 2013, I started working on this website. I knew nothing about operating a website but was able to launch it on January 1, 2014. I wanted to share what I had learned, especially with those who could not listen to those discourses in the Sinhala language.
6. I want to mention some things that may benefit others, particularly young people like you.
– One must have an interest in pursuing any subject. If someone is not interested in Buddha Dhamma, that is because one does not have the necessary background. It takes effort to set up that background, especially in the Western world. When engaged in the “rat race” trying to experience maximum sensory pleasures (and how to pay for such activities), there is hardly any time left to investigate issues like the “meaning of life.”
– Are we here just for a brief time? Why are we here? Did it happen without a cause, or can everything in this world be explained logically?
– That is why I think reading the “Origin of Life” section will be beneficial, especially for those with such an interest.
– However, some already have faith in the Buddha (and his Dhamma) and may not be interested in such analyses.7. In either case, I highly recommend taking notes while reading or listening to Dhamma.
– I have done it from my school days (on any subject). Even if I may not read some of them, just writing down what one learns helps get it into “long-term memory.” I have accumulated a pile of notebooks from Waharaka Thero’s discourses. I recently glanced through them and saw that I had taken notes of the same discourse a few times in some cases (unknowingly.) But the interesting point is that my latter notes are much better; they were taken with a better understanding.8. Explaining a concept to others is another way to clarify/solidify one’s understanding. But before trying to explain verbally, write down at least in point form. When you try to express an idea, you may realize that more questions need to be answered.
– Furthermore, as one’s understanding grows, one can see the errors one may have made in the early days. I see that there are early posts on the website that require re-writing or revision.9. There is always room to improve. Only a Buddha knows everything perfectly. But it is an exhilarating experience to advance on the Path as things become clear more easily. Now I can read an earlier post of mine or a sutta translation by another person and see the flaws right away, in most cases. It is just that it takes time to organize my thoughts and write.
I may add a few things to this comment in the future if anything else comes to mind, especially if it could benefit others.
11/24/22:
10. Regarding #7 above, it is NECESSARY to summarize what you learned in your own words. Just copying and pasting quotes directly from the source is useless.
11. If one would like to learn Buddha Dhamma at a deeper level (which is not necessary), it is essential to learn a bit of Abhidhamma. Abhidhamma is not different from Buddha Dhamma but is a systematic analysis of Buddha Dhamma.
– Some issues that may not be resolved within the Sutta Pitaka can be resolved with Abhidhamma.12. Related to #11 is the following that I also mentioned in another thread at the forum. It is time to write a series of posts on willpower and the human mind.
– Arising of citta (loosely translated as “thoughts”) is a purely mechanical process. It happens within a billionth of a second.
– Then how is it that we have “willpower” to change our destiny?
– That requires systematic analysis. There is sufficient background material on the website, and there are enough people who will be able to follow.It is primarily humans who have willpower.
– For example, animals are essentially robots who instinctively respond to sensory inputs (arammana.) But that is not to say they don’t have feelings. They do, and they suffer tremendously. But they are helpless (that is the true meaning of “anatta“) because they cannot alter their destiny.
– Even most Devas and Brahmas are like that. They enjoy their mental states until the sustaining kammic energy runs out. Of course, Devas and Brahmas with magga phala do have willpower because their gati have been permanently altered (no going back to bad gati.)
– That is why the Buddha said that human bhava is precious and not to be wasted!
– Those who are interested in the new series may want to grasp the essential aspects of Abhidhamma in the Abhidhamma section.2 users thanked author for this post.
