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I did not get a chance yesterday to look at the discussion. I have revised a couple of posts related to this discussion:
Hello namo0804,
Glad to see you here on the forum.
Yes. Hojan is doing a great job with the Korean puredhamma website. He also regularly sends me emails with suggestions for revisions/improvements.Regarding your question:
The word “Sotapanna” is probably associated with both those meanings.
(i) “Dutiyasāriputta Sutta (SN 55.5)” provides one meaning associated with “sota” (stream) being the Noble Eightfold Path. When one starts on the “path” or the “stream” one becomes a Sotāpanna: “sota” + “āpanna” where “āpanna” means “entering.”
(ii) As you stated, “the name “Sotāpanna” also includes the fact that we can get Sōtapanna Magga/Phala by listening desana.”
That is discussed in #3 of the post you referred to.P.S. I just revised your post to embed the Youtube video you referred to. It talks about the fact that one needs to grasp the Dhamma by hearing about it from a Noble Person to become a Sotapanna. That is quite right. If one does not know about the Noble truths, one will never reach the Sotapanna stage by just “meditating.”
– Also, one can embed a Youtube video in a post the following way:
(i) Click the “Share” button below the video and copy the link.
(ii) Paste that link in the post.1 user thanked author for this post.
I see what you are trying to say.
However, in many suttas, kamma viññāṇa is used instead of dhammā (kamma bija also means the same thing).
– For example, some suttas mention “viññāṇa descending to a womb,” implying a gandhabba (created by kamma viññāṇa) descending to a womb.
– So, one needs to know they mean the same. I think those sentences are fine.
– Furthermore, in the second case (“kamma viññāṇa is not totally mental” – in the sense that it has ENERGY unlike vipaka viññāṇa), I wanted to emphasize the difference between vipaka viññāṇa and kamma viññāṇa.Change in gati with Anapanasati/Satipatthana was explained in a chart in an earlier discussion:
“Removing black rays?”Dosakkahyo wrote: “.. ‘unconscious’ is oblivious”
– No. “Unconscious” means loss of consciousness.
– OK. So, you probably meant “not focusing on an arammana.”Yes. Upadana depends on one’s level of progress.
Thus, it is indeed correct to say: “So (for a Sotapanna), in the “arammana – vipaka vinnana – gati to attach – samphassa – samphassa ja vedana – tanha” process, “apayagami gati to attach” step can not happen. Therefore, apayagami level tanha can not happen too.”
– P.S. Thus, a Sotapanna is free of suffering associated with all apayas.I am not quite sure what you mean by the last paragraph. But I think what you are saying is the following.
– For example, an Anagami will not generate automatic mano sankhara (and follow-up vaci/kaya sankhara) for a sensual arammana that would generate kama raga in someone below that stage. That is because an Anagami has overcome “kama raga gati” and would not attach (tanha) to such an arammana. Thus an Anagami would proceed to the left (at the top of the chart shown above: “No Gati to Attach.”)
– P.S. Thus, an Anagami is free of suffering associated with all realms in kama loka.Yes. Different suttas describe these ñāṇa and iddhividha ñāṇa somewhat differently.
I discussed the Kevatts Sutta in “Pāṭihāriya (Supernormal Abilities) of a Buddha – Part I”
I just added your reference to that post (in #4). Thank you!
Dosakkhayo asked:
“small question: Is cutūpapāda ñāna same as dibbacakkhuñāṇa?”– No. They are different. Cutūpapāda ñāna gives the ability to recall previous lives (including non-human lives). Dibbacakkhuñāṇa gives the ability to “see with a divine eye,” i.e., to see long distances through walls and even to see other realms.
– Cutūpapāda comes from “cuti” (end of bhava) and “upapāda” (to a new bhava). Dibbacakkhu comes from “dibba” for “devine/Deva” and “cakkhu” for “seeing.”“But a sotapanna removed nicca saññā vipallāsa.”
– That is not correct. But what I had in #18 of that post was not quite right either. I just revised that sentence (in #18) as follows:“Saññā vipallāsa goes away at the Anāgami stage, and citta vipallāsa (together with asmi māna) is removed at the Arahant stage. See “Vipallāsa (Diṭṭhi, Saññā, Citta) Affect Saṅkhāra.”
Yes. Thank you for catching that. I just revised it:
10. What happens is the following. Since an Arahant has removed all āsavā, the “vedanā paccayā taṇhā” step in Paṭicca samuppāda will not take place. Thus, the akusala-mula Paṭicca samuppāda will NOT operate for an Arahant. Furthermore, since there are no akusala to get rid of, kusala-mula Paṭicca samuppāda will also not operate.
Very good, Tobi.
– Please feel to comment further after reviewing the chart.
– It should be gathi/gati and NOT garthi/garti.
– Kamma instead of karma.
– Pali instead of Sanskrit!“Therefore, unlike the other five abhiññās, asavakkhaya nana seems to be achievable without jhana.”
– Yes. As I have mentioned in various posts/comments, cultivating jhanas is not necessary to attain any stage of Nibbana, even though they may be realized at various stages of Nibbana.
– That is clear, for example, from the two types of citta vithi involved in getting to jhana and magga phala at the end of the following post:
“Citta Vīthi – Processing of Sense Inputs”– What are the “other five abhiññās” you mentioned?
Yes. Exactly right!
Tanha and avijja arise together. That is why four of the eight entities in a suddhatthaka are from avijja, and the other four are from tanha.
“The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka”
– That is also why both “mohakkhayo Nibbanam” and “tanhakkhayo Nibbanam” describe Nibbana. As we know, avijja is a reduced version of moha.I have revised the post in question to make your points easily seen with a chart:
“Key Steps of Kammic Energy Accumulation“Yes. That captures the essence.
– Dukkha dukkha (births in the apayas and injuries, sicknesses, etc in human bhava) arise as kamma vipaka resulting from kamma done with abhisankhara.OK. I did revise the post to include it. Good suggestion. Thanks!
Buddha Jayanthi Tipitaka edition has the original Pali Tipitaka (in the Sinhala alphabet) and a translation in the Sinhala language. It was published around 2005, I believe.
– But that translation is not correct in most cases, just like the English translations at Sutta Central. Incorrect interpretations of anicca and anatta appear, for example.1. The verse in the video is not in the Tipitaka, as far as I can see. It is possibly one composed to aid in attaining jhana. There is nothing wrong with that approach if one is interested in cultivating jhana.
– Abhaya Thero’s discourses are not only focused on jhana. He recommends going through an extensive set of instructions (also on YouTube, mainly in the Sinhala language).2. Yes. The quote from my posts explains how proper breathing (possibly together with such recitals) can help get to “passaddhi,” possibly leading to jhana.
3. However, the main focus in Anapanasati/Satipatthana MUST BE the removal of “bad gati” that perpetuates the rebirth process.
– See, “How Habits are Formed and Broken – A Scientific View”
– The following chart explains the basis:
P.S. The critical point is that when we attach to an arammana (tanha), that happens automatically. We don’t have control over that step.
– But we become aware “that the mind got attached” when we start generating vaci sankhara based on that arammana. At that point, we can stop generating more vaci sankhara.
– But if we “remain attached (because we like that arammana),” then we go to the beginning of the PS cycle (avijja paccaya sankhara). Then that will proceed to bhava and jati in Idappacayata PS, where one will be “born” in a corresponding mental state and continue generating more PS cycles. That will lead to strengthening that “bad gati.”
– It takes an effort to get rid of such “deeply ingrained gati” (digham assasanto…) discussed in #3 above.
– “Paṭicca Samuppāda During a Lifetime“
