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Welcome to the forum, Dan.
Yes. In the above comments, I (and others) have described in detail many issues with Goenka-type meditation programs. They can bring temporary calmness but do not help stop future suffering.
Thanks, Tobi. It is good to discuss these issues since other people may have similar questions. Following is my initial response, and I may keep revising it during the day to avoid multiple posts.
– Please wait until later today to ask follow-up questions (12 hours from this post.) I can answer any questions after that.1. I don’t have doubts whether Burkhard Heim`s theory is consistent with the CURRENT string theory or any other proposed theory. String theory is just that, an unproven theory: “String theory”
– My argument is that ALL scientific theories up to date have been either rejected or revised. New theories can explain more, but then scientists discover more phenomena that are not consistent. Einstein’s theories replaced Newton’s theory of gravitation. However, Einstein’s idea about locality has been proven wrong, and the recent Nobel Prize was awarded for that. See my post on this thread on November 17, 2022 at 5:29 pm.
– All scientific theories either exclude mental phenomena or try to accommodate them forcefully (e.g., thoughts arise in the brain) or explain abstractly (e.g., the theory you quoted).2. In contrast, Buddha’s explanations are radically different. It is a paradigm change compared to all current scientific theories based on “materiality.”
– In a post above, I provided one reference describing that, and here is another simpler one: “Dhamma and Science – Introduction.”3 (a). Now, let me answer your questions raised at the end:
First question: “1. Mano the mind. Is Hadaya Vatthu + viññāna correct? In my theory, I only gave the Mano coordinates, i.e., a location with x5 + x6 in the universe. The processes remain the same PS, etc.
Where can I find something about the Javana power?”Hadaya vatthu is the “seat of the mind,” i.e., that is where thoughts arise. Viññāna is another name for thoughts (but there are different types of viññāna; some are just consciousness or “being aware,” and other types have expectations.) See “Viññāṇa – Consciousness Together With Future Expectations.”
– Hadaya vatthu has the smallest amount of matter in Buddha Dhamma. It is less than a billionth of the size of an atom in science. That hadaya vatthu can be created only by kammic energy. A human’s hadaya vatthu differs from an animal’s. I cannot explain all that, even in many posts. But a good starting point could be “The Grand Unified Theory of Dhamma.”
– Einstein failed to accomplish his goal of a Grand Unified Theory. No such theory is possible without the mind playing the dominant role. That ultimate theory is Buddha Dhamma.
– Of course, just saying that would not make it so. But by scientific standards, Buddha Dhamma has withstood all scientific findings, whereas science makes revisions (or proposes new theories) to accommodate new findings.
– As for dimensions, Buddha’s differs from the picture you propose. There is a way to divide everything in this into six categories: four great elements (pathavi, apo, tejo, vayo), space element (akasa), and viññāna dhatu. All material objects are made of the four great elements and are located in the space element. Viññāna dhatu incorporates all mental phenomena. Understanding these concepts would take a significant effort, especially because it is a different paradigm.3 (b) Second question: “4. In which sutta or where is this point described? Does the mind create those dhammā with thoughts (saṅkhāra.)?” That question is regarding “The mind creates those Dhammā with thoughts (saṅkhāra.)”
This is getting to the full explanation of 3 (a) above. You have reached the right point, the crux of the issue!
– Again, this is not something I can explain in a comment like this or even with many posts. This whole website is about that.
– It has taken me over eight years to assemble the posts on the website. But there is much more, depending on how deep I want to go.
– Let me give an example. Any scientist (like your friend) had to spend many years learning basic concepts until he could start understanding string theory. Buddha Dhamma is much more profound/more complex than any theory scientists will ever have if one takes a theoretical approach (i.e., the Abhidhamma approach.) There are no suttas that explain Abhidhamma. The Pali Canon has three parts, two of which are Sutta Pitaka and Abhidhamma Pitaka; the third one, Vinaya Pitaka, is mainly for the bhikkhus. A brief summary at “Preservation of the Buddha Dhamma.”
– However, there is a simpler way to follow the Buddha’s Path and get to Nibbana. That is to take a “practical approach” explained in the suttas. It starts with teaching how to live a moral life first. The second step is to get rid of the first level of wrong views about this world (ten types of miccha ditthi.) The final step is to get rid of the deeper level of wrong views about this world (that pursuing sensory pleasures can only lead to eventual suffering in the rebirth process.) See, for example, “Is It Necessary for a Buddhist to Eliminate Sensual Desires?”
– You asked: “What is the connection between the process of creation (Saṅkhāra) and attaining Nibbana?” One needs to understand Paticca Samuppada to get the basic idea. The basic idea is briefly explained in “Distortion of Pāli Keywords in Paṭicca Samuppāda.” But, of course, it requires much more detail.3 (c) Final set of questions: Here is the basis. Any sentient being lives in this world (going through the rebirth process) until attaining Arahanthood. At the death of that Arahant (Parinibbana), that sentient being leaves this world, i.e., is not reborn in any realm of this world.
– Another way to say that is: “Existing in this world” and “in Nibbana” are mutually exclusive. One can be either in this world or in Nibbana (after Parinibbana.)
– Nibbana cannot be described in the terminology of this world. The Buddha emphasized the following. This world has both pleasures and suffering. Pleasures dominate suffering in the realms above the human realm (i.e., in Deva and Brahma realms.) Suffering dominated pleasures in the lower four realms, including the animal realm. The human realm has pleasures and suffering. The problem is that MOST rebirths are in the four lowest realms! Nibbana is suffering-free. That is all anyone can say about Nibbana. Nothing in this world (people, Devas, houses, mountains, stars, ..) is there in Nibbana. See, for example, “Nibbāna “Exists”, but Not in This World”
– Your question: “When someone attains Nibbana, is the universe still there for all other living beings?” Yes. There are an infinite number of beings in the universe. See “The Infinity Problem in Buddhism.”
– Your question: “If we go to Paranibbana, do we disappear from the universe?” Yes. As explained above.
– Your question: “Will the universe remain after this?” Yes. As explained above.4. There is a lot of material condensed in the above comments. Please make a list as you read and refer to relevant post(s) if you have questions. As I said above, it will not be possible to understand everything even after reading those posts. But we need to start somewhere. I will be happy to answer any questions.
“Jha = to burn, ana (from anapanasati)? = taking in the Noble 8 fold path.”
I am not sure. Indeed, there is no contradiction.
Tobi asked: “Only the Buddha Dhamma brings us to Nibbana, all other theories are just crutches. That includes point 3 as well.
“Manōpubbangamā Dhammā..” is in this context and also on the page dhammā…..with ā not lowercase?”Yes. Two meanings.
– Dhamma (with uppercase D and no long “a”) refers to teaching. Buddha Dhamma means “teachings of the Buddha.’
– Dhammā (with a long “a” and normally lowercase d) refers to “things that bear/sustain worldly things.” That is what comes in the phrase “Manōpubbangamā Dhammā” since everything in this arises with the mind as the precursor. See “The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka” and “What are Dhammā? – A Deeper Analysis.” These are a bit deeper discussions and may require understanding fundamental concepts in Buddha Dhamma.Thank you, Tobi.
I watched the video “6 Dimensions in Color.” I also glanced through the document that you emailed me. In the following I will list the major contradictions of this theory with Buddha Dhamma.
1. This theory also tries to DERIVE mental aspects. The higher two dimensions are attributed to the mind in a subtle way, but it is abstract. In Buddha Dhamma, one starts with the mind: “Manōpubbangamā Dhammā..”
– In other, more mainstream scientific proposals, mental aspects are attributed to the brain. This theory is different, but it also does not give the predominant role to the mind but tries to DERIVE it in a subtle abstract way.2. In the write-up you sent me, you gave NUMBERS to represent the universe’s size and lifetime.
– In Buddha Dhamma, both are infinite. It is impossible to derive such numbers.
– If the principle of causality is true (the basis of Buddha Dhamma AND modern science), one cannot trace a “beginning to sentient life” and hence to the universe.
– As modern science has illustrated, the boundaries of space are limited only by technology. The most recent telescope can look deeper into space, but that is not a limit.3. It is fruitless to try accommodating this theory — or any other theory — to Buddha Dhamma.
– There is no need to do that since Buddha Dhamma is self-consistent. See “Buddha Dhamma: Non-Perceivability and Self-Consistency” No other theory can provide any more insight than what is already there in Buddha Dhamma.
– All such efforts are just a waste of time. Such efforts will only take precious time away from pursuing Nibbana: “Nibbāna “Exists”, but Not in This World”Tobi wrote: “The Burkhard Heim page can be changed from German to English”
Thanks. I took a quick look at it. I did not see a post specifically on the double-slit experiment.
– Anyway, I got the impression that his model is not good either.I am not specifically interested in these explanations. But the conclusion of these experiments is that nature is “non-local,” meaning far apart events (even separated by across a galaxy) can be correlated. They can influence each other instantaneously! Meaning such events are not limited by the speed of light, as Einstein envisioned.
– The recent Nobel prize award was for the confirmation of that “non-locality.”– My interest is that it is the exact mechanism under which the laws of kamma operate! When a human dies (cuti) on Earth’s surface and grasps a Deva existence (patisandhi), a Deva appears in the corresponding Deva realm instantaneously. There is no time delay
– Cuti and patisandhi are only apart by less than a billionth of a second (time between two consecutive cittas.)1 user thanked author for this post.
Yes. “Jhā” is to burn, specifically “burn defilements (raga, dosa, moha).
One gets to Ariya jhana by actually “burning,” but anariyas do not burn but suppress those defilements.
– That is why in the “Sandha Sutta (AN 11.9)” the Buddha admonished bhikkhu Sandha that he should meditate like a “thoroughbred horse” and not like an inferior horse.
– Those anariya jhanas attained by suppressing defilements are useless, just like an inferior horse.
– See “Jhāna, Jhāya, and Jhāyi – Different Meanings”“Dhammapada verse 371”
– In the English translation there, “Jhāya bhikkhu mā pamādo” is translated as “Practice absorption, don’t be negligent!” But a better translation is “burn defilements (not just suppress) without delay!”
– The rest of the verse is even more critical: “Do not delight in sensory inputs with kāmaguṇa” (because that can lead to rebirth in the apayas). “where you get to swallow hot iron melts (molasses)!” “And when it burns, don’t cry, “Oh, the pain!”
– The last two lines refer to the unimaginable suffering present in the apayas.The next verse is that quoted by TripleGemStudent (TGS): “Dhammapada 372”
– Now we can see that the explanation by TGS also makes sense with the preceding verse.We have cultivated anariya jhana an uncountable times in the rebirth process. In fact, ALL living beings on this cakkavala will get to cultivate jhana at the end EACH maha kappa and thus be reborn in a Brahma realm.
– That is why it is USELESS to do breath meditation and cultivate anariya jhana! However, one can use that temporary samadhi state to get to Nibbana by comprehending the anicca nature of such anariya jhana.Hello Tobi,
I cannot read the German website you quoted. But here is a brief article on Wikipedia: “Heim theory”
The description you quoted above involves an electron absorbing/emitting photons. But there is no need for such mechanisms.
– This experiment has been done on electrons and photons separately, i.e., similar interference patterns have been observed when the experiment was done with a single electron or a single photon.
– Also, whether this experiment has anything to do with consciousness is a separate issue. (It does not)
– The question of whether a photon is a particle or a wave has also been resolved: “Photons Are Particles Not Waves”Yes. It depends on the person.
Jorg, you can watch the video in LDF’s initial post by clicking on the “Watch on YouTube” link in the blank video.
– We can post the whole list if you or anyone else is interested.I have been thinking about it some more. Sometimes, it is not possible to give a simple, strict “yes” or “no” answer.
Trying to cultivate “asubha saññā” by looking at disgusting aspects of dead bodies or internal organs is — in general — not a good idea for those below or even at the Sotapanna stage.
But, for some, such a drastic approach may help get to the Anagami stage faster (if one has a firm determination) AND is not “agitated/disturbed” by such horrific pictures.
– But that is not recommended for Sotapannas living “householder lives” because that can end marriages affecting children’s and spouses’ lives. One can lose interest in sex. I am not saying that losing interest in sex is bad. It is just that one needs to be aware of the possibility of that outcome. One will know when one is ready to take such an action. That depends on one’s level of understanding of Buddha Dhamma AND one’s personal background.1 user thanked author for this post.
Yes. Lang is right. Buddha’s Asubha Bhavana is NOT about seeing rotting corpses and distasteful videos like the last one on the list.
– I had not looked at the documents/videos. Just now, I took a brief look at the video listed last. That is NOT asubha Bhavana, but is the version commonly taught by even Theravada teachers!Even though LayDhammaFollower (LDM) has requested to remove them if needed, I will leave them at least for a while so that people can see what not to follow.
The Buddha wanted us to contemplate the unfruitfulness of valuing not only our physical bodies but anything in this world.
– Asubha DOES NOT mean “disgusting” or “yucky.” That may generate patigha, as LDM pointed out.
– It means not beneficial, not fruitful, etc., and quite the opposite.Please read the following sutta carefully.
“Sivathika Sutta (AN 5.249)”– In the days of the Buddha, there was no burial or cremation for average people. Dead bodies were discarded in designated “charnel grounds.”
– But the Buddha wanted us to see not the drawbacks of disgusting scenes in a charnel ground but the drawbacks of disgusting conduct by way of body, speech, and mind.– The Buddha also taught us to contemplate the 32 parts of the body to see that they are also made of the same four great elements as plants and rocks.
– I have mentioned that briefly in #5 of “Anussati and Anupassanā – Being Mindful and Removing Defilements“. I may have addressed it in another post, but I don’t remember.The CRITICAL point that I have been trying to convey is that translating “Ānāpānassati” as “mindfulness of breathing” is INCORRECT!
I have revised #5 of that post as follows.
5. There is a small collection of suttas in the Ānapāna Vagga of Saṁyutta Nikāya BEFORE the section on Ānāpānasati. That is to give an idea of what is involved in Ānapāna, which comes from “Āna” + “āpāna,” where two words mean “taking in (kusala)” and “discarding (akusala or defilements).”
– That section in the Ānapāna Vagga has several suttas starting with the “Aṭṭhikamahapphala Sutta (SN 46.57)” and ending with the “Ānāpāna Sutta (SN 46.66).”
– You can read the English translations in the above links and see that the word “breath” is NOT there! Of course, the INCORRECT English translation of “Ānāpānassati” as “mindfulness of breathing” in SN 46.66 does not mean the word “breathing” is mentioned in that sutta! That INCORRECT translation is in the Sutta Central translation in the above link. (Note: I usually provide the “side by side” Pāli and English translations from Sutta Central. That does NOT mean I agree with their translation. One should always be cautious about the INCORRECT translation of many words in Sutta Central translations).The nine stages represent different stages of evolvement with more cetasika. Each stage has an increasing number of cetasika as that initial “citta” stage gets increasingly contaminated.
– The final stage of vinnanakkhandha is quite complex.We never experience the intermediate stages starting with the “citta” stage. We only experience the final stage of vinnanakkhandha.
– This evolvement in nine stages is discernible only to the mind of a Buddha.It is a good question that brings out an issue that needs to be emphasized.
1. First, ākāsānañcāyatana, viññāṇañcāyatana, ākiñcaññāyatana, and nevasaññānāsaññāyatana are NOT jhāna. They are samāpatti.
– The Buddha discussed only FOUR jhānās. These are the mental states of rupavacara Brahmas.
– One can proceed to higher arupavacara samāpatti once getting to the fourth jhana.
– However, these days, the higher four arupavacara samāpatti are incorrectly labeled as the fourth through the eighth jhāna.
– In many posts, I have also used that incorrect terminology. (Please let me know if you come across them so I can revise them).In a recent post, I pointed out the above; see #4 of “Samādhi, Jhāna, and Sammā Samādhi”
– It was also discussed at the forum, “Post on “Samādhi, Jhāna, and Sammā Samādhi”2. Now, to address the question of TripleGemStudent: “I’m wondering what are the benefits of those arupa jhana’s?”
The short answer is as follows:
– A cetovimutti (or ubhatovimutti) Arahant gets to nirodha samapatti by sequentially going through the first four jhana and then the four arupavacara samapatti. Thus, there are eight steps up to that stage. The ninth step is to advance to the next stage of nirodha samapatti.
– That nine-step process is also informative in the following way. That Arahant would transcend the kama loka once getting to the first jhana. Then they would advance through higher arupavacara states, reaching the nevasaññānāsaññāyatana at the eighth step, which is the highest arupavacara Brahma realm (dimension of neither perception nor non-perception). One is almost released from this world of 31 realms at that point.
– Even anariya yogis can reach that state. But they CAN NOT get to nirodha samapatti because they have NOT removed any anusaya! They will be born in that Brahma realm at death, but they can be reborn in apayas in future lives since they have not removed any anusaya.
– But A cetovimutti (or ubhatovimutti) Arahant can “temporarily detach” from this world of 31 realms for up to seven days. Since they still have kammic energy to sustain the physical body, they will be automatically released from nirodha samapatti after seven days (unless they willingly come off before that).“Does “avinipātadhammo” mean “free of the apāyā”?”
Yes. That is correct.
– That verse comes in many suttas: “76 results for avinipātadhammo“
