- This topic has 25 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 2 months, 2 weeks ago by LayDhammaFollower.
July 25, 2022 at 4:37 am #38948
I will use this post for posting details of all the insights and breakthrough Experiences I had.
July 25, 2022 at 4:39 am #38949
I pondered on lal’s analogy of fish, hook and bait and got breakthrough.
This are notes from that breakthrough;
This is expansion on that analogy;
Is it wise for fish to embrace the worm tied to hook in pond by someone trying to caught fish?
If fish were to do it,
will it have more sukha or dukha as final result?
Is small temporary happiness fish had after eating that worm, was worth its life?
But, if the fish chooses to embrace the worm, in hopes of whatever little shred of happiness it can have by eating the worm, is that action wise or unwise?
Doing unwise leads to pleasent or unpleasant results in long term?
If fish knew that in having one single time small meal it will be caught in much suffering?
Would it embrace the worm?
Becaus it will get caught and die.
Humans too act like fish.
What is “worm” for humans?
(Worm = trap/bait in this analogy)
Pleasent sights, smells, touches, sounds and taste.
One either has greed or hatred for this five kinds of objects. When it is pleasent object there is greed to keep it, maintain it, embrace it, trying to have more of it. When event, person or any other cause blocks happiness dependent upon that object, one generates hatred for that cause, which blocks one from having the much desired pleasent experience.
This goes much deeper through, it is not just pleasent nature of objects, happiness is even dependent on personal preference too. Different people have different kinds of personal preferences, this preference is subtle greed for having things in particular way. WHEN this personal preferences are not fulfilled, they again do what?
There is Generating of dislike, friction or even hatred, depending upon how strong the happiness of that person was dependent on greed/personal-preference being fulfilled.
Now, what is “hook” for humans?
Just like fish is caught on hook in eating worm.
Humans too get *caught in sansarā* while trying to eat worm.
Why sansarā is hook?
Did any of your suffering arise in any other way then through six senses?
Why sansarā is hook,
Because not matter what, it is not possible to have happiness without suffering.
As long as one want to eat delightful sights, sounds, smells, taste, touch using senses.
Write this down, the much unwanted future suffering cannot be stopped. Even if one had everything one cannot stop illness, old age and death. One cannot stop becoming monkey or insect based upon one’s own kamma despite everything. If the causes are there, effects will follows inevitably.
So, even through all sorts of pleasent things are present in world, they bring much more suffering then pleasure, happiness.
Is 100 years of even kingly pleasure of any value if you were to become monkey or insect after this birth?
One thinks this is impossible,
Because, of too much attachment to body. One thinks body is mine, I am body etc. Because one fails to see the causes for birth of body.
If parents were not United, if mother was not in her time, if you didn’t had kamma bija for human Bhavā, if you didn’t had food at any time in your life for long time, would you still be here?
It is all just causality at the core.
Are six senses ever completely fulfilled?
It is impossible, because, whatever temporary fulfilment one has, comes through contact of senses with corresponding external senses objects. *It arises based on conditionality, with cessation of causes, whole experience ceases.*
One cannot constantly maintain any conditionality to keep senses fulfilled.
Senses are by their very nature are insatiable. It is not your fault that they are unfulfilled. They have inherent nature of suffering and vexation.
Trying to keep senses happy or fulfilled by providing them various pleasent objects is foolish.
One is trying to do impossible.
Six senses are not not be relied upon to have any happiness.
Now, we see that six senses are unfulfilled always and they are always unbalanced and insatiable and always gives suffering.
Both senses and external sense objects are completely Aniccā, dukkhā and anatta. They are utterly useless for achieving any kind of permanent happiness.
One who tries to achieve the happiness through six senses is fool. He will always be unhappy eventually.
One should get rid of all passions based on either senses or six corresponding sense objects.
So, with cessation of this senses would all suffering cease or no?
Without birth can senses come? So, with stopping of birth, do senses arises or no?
So, with cessation of birth, with cessation of senses, would suffering to end or no?
But, when what exists birth exists?
Birth cannot come!
What is Avijjā/ignorance?
It is only when delusion exists that either this senses or the objects out in the world can provide *PERMANENT HAPPINESS* that you run behind them with passion, hate, greed etc.
Now, with cessation of this avijjā/ignorance abhisaṅkhāra ceases, defiled viññana cease, salayatana ceases, samphassa ceases, samphassa-jā-vēdanā ceases, tanha ceases, bhava ceases and with cessation 9f bhava comes cessation of jati, with cessation of jati comes cessation of birth, with cessation of birth, comes stopping of all suffering.
Cessation of all suffering is that not a true happiness, all of us seek?
July 25, 2022 at 4:56 am #38950
This is the reason, why repeated endless attempts to have happiness in “this world” *ALWAYS FAILS*.
Why it fails?
Because one expects to not experience pain after touching hot pan.
Is that fair expectation?
Is it possible to not experience suffering after touching hot pan?
Is one fool or wise to expect no pain after touching the hot pan?
On the other hand, even if pan is there, if you don’t touch it,
Does it create the pain?
July 25, 2022 at 5:22 am #38951
With the happiness through six senses, question is not whether suffering will arise or not.
Question is when suffering arises.
For poor people in human realm, suffering is ever present reality.
For rich people in human realm, even with all their riches they cannot completely stop what they don’t like, they cannot completely get what they like. Money cannot keep senses young, cannot stop all the illnesses, cannot stop someone from telling you harsh words.
Even if one has all the wealth in the world, can it help one to have birth in next life exactly as one likes?
So, one must understand clearly, buddha doesn’t talk about the mundane suffering or pain of everyday life.
The suffering buddha talks about is ever present reality/sansarā/six senses/”the all”/”the world” it is inherently not to complete liking or as per one’s wishes.
World works on principle of causality, we want to embrace it in illusion that it is works as per our wishes.
If it worked as per your wishes, would you ever let anything happen, that you don’t like or that causes Suffering?
But, you suffer and have pain, grief, lamentation, despair, sorrow, seperation from liked, not meeting or having liked etc etc.
So, is the six senses/world a real problem that you should fix? Or should you fix your attachment (greed/hatred) to world?
As mentioned earlier, all our friends, family, relatives all have tried their ever best to fix the world, *yet, world is unfixable problem.*
However, this is not giving up in any sense or accepting defeat. It is just that why would you fight battle that cannot be ever won?
Remeber, it is not about giving this up or that up or anything, It is about trying to choose the battle that has possibility of winning.* Why would you fight battle that is impossible to win? Why would you try to have happiness from something which is incapable of providing it?
What is winning in this question?
*Winning is simply that you remove all possibilities of ever having any kind of suffering ever again. Is anything more valuable. Never ever having any Suffering.*
I explained in above posts why world is not fixable, but, attachment is fixable.
July 25, 2022 at 5:27 am #38952
An extremely important example of Buddhist mind based approach to fix problem of suffering rather than trying to fix world.
How is not world but attachment is fixable?
And how just with ending of tanha, suffering automatically stops?
Let’s see this with example.
You have countless times heard that he who wins himself is true winner, but why? And more importantly, how? *And what is meaning of one who wins himself?*
A very important example about what entails winning in world in true sense – A Buddhist perspective.
Let’s say that there are two persons X and Y who are soon going to meet third person Z.
X has hatred towards bad speech of others. We all have dislike for that. Noone likes to hear the harsh words even from their parents, let alone anyone else.
However, Y has no such attachments or preferences. Because he understands that whatever comes through senses is not under our control and not to complete liking, whatever type of liking that might be. Hence, he accepts whatever that comes up through senses without any hatred or greed or any kind of attachments. Because he knows that attachment to pleasent words with greed and attachment to unpleasant words with hatred is of no use.
Now, X and Y goes to meet Z. Z yells at both X and Y, insults them, gives them harsh words, unpleasant speech.
However X suffers and Y does not suffer in this situation.
Why understanding this is extremely important?
Because, this situation illustrates how it is not the things in world but, our expectations/preference/greed/hatred which creates the suffering.
Now, just because X doesn’t have any preference for any particular type of treatment, does that mean he will generate the love/pleasent feeling even when someone insults him/her?
No. This is important to understand, you don’t have to give up on doing anything at all. Just don’t have attachment/expectations for anything coming through six senses. You will still be fully functional, after removing all the attachments.
Only thing given up by giving up attachment/preference/hate/greed is suffering/pain.
Important thing here to understand is that just because X has that kind of preference, it doesn’t mean that, people will stop telling him unpleasant unliked harsh words, however, because of his attachment to hear only nice words, now when he hears unliked words he will generate the hatred and hated is cause for suffering.
On the other hand when Y hears the same unpleasant words he has not hatred because he has no attachment/greed to particular type of speech and words, he doesn’t expect ears to *COMPLETE LIKING* hence, he doesn’t generate any hatred due to not having any greed.
Whether or not you have any kind of expectations/liking/greed/hatred has not impact on any worldly object or six senses, they will work on causality. They don’t work as per one’s wishes.
One’s greed/hatred/attachment/preference doesn’t enhance the working of anything, attachment serves no purpose other than giving pain and suffering. while their presence gives much suffering.
This is why one should work of oneself rather than world for achieving true happiness.
This example illustrates how it is not worldly conditionality that creates suffering but our attachment to it that is problem.
But, throughout our long Samsarā it has become our tendency/instinct and first response to fix world and to make it to our liking rather than fixing ourselves to not expect something from world which it can never provide.
When you try to fix world rather then yourself, you suffer. Because, you cannot bent ganga river as you like.
When you try to fix attachment, it is possible to stop Suffering and to have something that is to our *complete liking*
First is wrong approach, giving unpleasant unliked result. Something that all of us have done for so long.
Second approach is Buddhist approach, in which you fix false expectations rather then fixing world. This leads to permanent end of suffering.
If suffering is ended permanently, is it true winning or not?
One who ends suffering by fixing his mind, is he true winner or no?
July 25, 2022 at 5:28 am #38953
Another way to look at it, is that niccā state and Aniccā state are mutually exclusive to each other.
One cannot have niccā state by staying in this world of 31 realms, by being born anywhere. Only when one is not born one would have niccā state, e.g. one has nibbanā, that is only true complete niccā state.
However, as long as one craves the objects with Aniccā nature one will born somewhere in 31 realm, and think about it how can someone who craves for objects with Aniccā nature would ever have true happiness/sukha/niccā/atta in this world? By having PañcaUpādānaKhandha one would only have suffering and suffering alone.
(Tanha → upādāna → bhava → jati → origin of whole mass of suffering.)
AND craving for any object from our own pañcakKhanda would be futile. Because our pañcakKhanda can never have any object with niccā state. Reason being nibbanā is something not experienced by six senses, hence there is no record/pañcakKhanda of its experience in our memory records.
Our pañcakKhanda only has objects with Aniccā nature, so craving for any of that is meaningless, because one would not only not have any happiness due to PañcaUpādānaKhandha but one would have much more dukkha in form of saṅkhāra, viparinama, dukkhā dukkhā as long as one has PañcaUpādānaKhandha. Without removal of PañcaUpādānaKhandha suffering cannot be ever stopped.
July 25, 2022 at 5:38 am #38954
Saṅkhata are expected in particular way. One does saṅkhāra dukkha to maintain saṅkhata.
Internal Rūpa are expected in certain way. One does saṅkhāra dukkha to maintain senses.
Eventually one of them, either senses or saṅkhata will fail.
Either one of this dominoes must fall. Any of them cannot be maintained as per one’s liking, as long as one wants.
In some realms senses can be maintained but not saṅkhata.
In some realms, saṅkhata can be maintained but not senses.
And finally most of births are in realm, where neither senses are to liking and neither saṅkhata are to liking.
Would you want to embrace such conditional temporary limited happiness?
Or should you change the approach to your own long term happiness?
July 25, 2022 at 5:44 am #38955
Buddhist approach goes again flow in the senses that it cures the root cause of problem (mind → tanha) rather than addressing the symptoms.
July 25, 2022 at 5:49 am #38956
Rarity of what you have right now.
Kamma Bijā for human Bhavā✅
Human Bhavā✅ (extremely rare)
Suitable parents✅ (rare)
Mother in her time✅
Buddha sasana ✅ (one in hundreads of eons)
Association with kalayana mitta with true dhamma ✅ (rare)
Tihetuka birth ✅ (rare)
Understanding buddha dhamma to at least basic level ✅
Only then suffering ends permanently.
Even one thing fails in whole process,
No end of sansarā
July 25, 2022 at 5:50 am #38957
How in the sansarā have we come to expect something that is literally impossible? How have we come to have such irrational impossible expectations?
Buddha once said that No one would be able to know true nature of world with defiled viññana. (Only completely purified at Arhant stage.)
It is as if we have overlooked what is in front of us all along.
I mean, even though this human body has come into existence due to myriad of causes all aligning. Even if one step had failed, the human body would not develope.
We wish to keep it young and not want it to grow old, As if it is under our control and so truly ours. We are in outright denial. Want proof? Ask someone around yourself, ask them if anyone wants to actually get old or get ill or get declined sense faculties, ask them if any of them will get it. This is body that would become completely useless and lifeless, if it didn’t had one extremely small part that cannot be even detected. (Gandhabba)
All things keeps changing as per causes, only to eventually die. (It can be either external six Rūpa OR five passada Rūpa+ haddaya vatthu) all are subject to cessation with removal of cause. There is no true ownership of anything for anyone. All this delusion not only keeps us in world where we not only get never complete satisfaction but also gives us endless suffering. How long do you want to keep building sandcastles?
Only a fool would embrace the world with defiled viññana in hopes of having complete niccā in this burning place where everything is Aniccā. Only a fool would cling to PañcaKhandha.
To be honest all of us have been fool for so long. Even Bodhisattva until that night of his enlightenment. He won four noble truths after his unfathomably long quest to end suffering COMPLETELY.
Understanding dukkhā, arising of dukkhā, cessation and path to Stopping of all this suffering is all that there is remaining for us …
July 25, 2022 at 5:52 am #38958
– what would you do when you lose what you have build with so much hard work?
– happiness achived through senses always require one to do sankhara of some sort
– worldly happiness is not natural, ever present. Natural state.
– it has strings attached to it
– it is conditional
– which means if one doesn’t fulfill it, one would be not happy.
– that is consequence of being dependent on external things for happiness
– that means one constantly needs to do something in order to have happiness
– worldly belief: “We must work HARD in order to be happy” how foolish. Why would one fight impossible battle?
– if worldly happiness is unnatrual, fabricated, artificial then as buddha said, “world is anchored on suffering”, suffering is natural state of world, not happiness.
July 25, 2022 at 5:53 am #38959
Why do we do anything at all in world?
Can any of us point out anything that we don’t do for our happiness (or for sake of happiness of people around us)?
Even a single thing?
Yet, Is this quest successful?
If not why?
What did go wrong in quest to achieve worldly happiness?
Have your parents, partners, siblings, relatives, friends or anyone else you have meet in your life, have they been able to achieve COMPLETE happiness, happiness that is unbroken, cannot be affected by anything else?
If you wanted to study Masters in Physics, what should be minimum qualification of your teacher for this course?
Bachelor’s in physics would work for sure, right?
You would want someone who has done at least masters in physics, to make you understand masters level course in physics.
Now, coming to the question of family and friends, have any of them been successful in achieving *permanent* happiness?
If not, would you expect them to teach you how to go about achieving *permanent* happiness?
Would you take thier advice on such matter?
They have done nothing wrong by motivating us for achieving worldly goals. Because, from their perspective that is what a correct path is. They are guiding us on correct path from *THEIR ERSPECTIVE.*
Yet, if they have not been able to achieve permanent happiness despite their 20, 30, 40 years of hard work and struggle.
What does that tell you?
Quoted from jethavanarama Buddhist monastery english sermons series video:
July 25, 2022 at 7:14 am #38960LalKeymaster
Well done! Thank you for sharing with us.
– Others may want to express their insights/comments, especially looking from different angles.
Note-taking helps clarify concepts. From my school days, I have tried to write down what I learned in my own words. In a way, that is what I am doing on this website too. As the understanding grows, one can express a given concept better.
– Trying to put ideas into words helps clarify. Just reading through a post is not enough. At least one should contemplate new concepts and try to express them in one’s own words. That is Vipassanā! Then one can compile notes.
July 25, 2022 at 12:14 pm #38969
Detachment cannot be forced.
However detachment can be effected by Cultivating causes for it.
Causes for detachment is paññā. Which is wisdom. Not bookish knowledge. Applying the learning to be free from real life suffering. Actual experiential freedom from suffering.
Now, What is paññā? → Taking wise decision with right understanding → What is right understanding? → seeing drawbacks of relying on six senses and the corresponding six sense objects for happiness. *Why drawbacks but not benifits should be seen*, because by default we see the benifits of all senses and objects, but, we don’t pay attention to the long term results of this quest to derive happiness by senses → what are drawbacks? → I explained drawbacks in all above posts.
Most important problem with all of us, who have still incomplete paññā is that we still don’t see either the whole picture of world.
*That is what I said repeatedly in above posts. Problem is seeing “hot pan” as “pan which won’t hurt” you, if you touch it. But, that’s is ofcourse wrong. It is impossible that may you be able to touch hot pan AND it may not burn you. It is outright foolish. Yet, by embracing six senses and corresponding six senses objects, this is what we are doing.*
This “hot pan” is sansarā with six senses/six kinds of sense objects.
“Touching it” means having hate or greed for this objects.
Why we see “hot pan” as “pan that won’t burn”?
Because of ignorance.
What is Ignorance? Not having paññā? What is paññā? Mentioned earlier.
We fail to see that it is our quest to derive the happiness from this world, which as consequence brings all the suffering that one experiences in this life, or will experience in future life if one doesn’t stop touching the hot pan.
Please note that Buddhist path is path of wisdom, analysis, investigations, discernment.
*ONE SHOULD NOT HAVE DATA SELECTION BIAS ON PATH.*
One cannot collect data that supports the Buddhist worldview. One must observe all the fact and then see whether buddhism makes any sense.
FOR EXAMPLE. Just because you see all the children around you who are poor, you should not and can not say that this is why world is suffering. All this suffering is suffering, but buddha talks about very particular type of suffering. It is not mundane everyday life suffering. However, this mundane suffering is automatically covered in Buddhist view of suffering. But, Buddhist view of what is suffering is much wider in scope. I have tried to explain this in above posts.
Please, read and contemplate.
Even if you don’t see six senses and corresponding objects as suffering directly, you will see that they are not exactly the best instrument for those seeking happiness without even trace of suffering in it.
Blind faith and beliefs can not lead anywhere.
Actually noone should even try to give up sense pleasures or anything,
WITHOUT HONEST INVESTIGATION FIRST.
July 25, 2022 at 12:17 pm #38970
Anyone want to see the Drawbacks of attaching to pleasent and unpleasant feelings that arises based on sense contacts? What is wrong with pursuing pleasent and unpleasant feelings from senses?
Pleasent feelings are pleasent in remaining,
Unpleasant when they pass away.
Unpleasant feelings are unpleasant in remaining, but pleasent when they pass away.
All things have pleasent and unpleasant part. Either is meaningless/anattā/unsubstantial/unfruitful/untrue.
This is right view.
I learnt this from sutta I can’t recall right now.
One who is attached to pleasent feelings, feels unpleasant when pleasent feelings pass away from sense contact against his wishes. This will always happen.
One who is attached to unpleasant feelings via hatred suffers when unpleasant feelings arises through sense contact. Becaus one want them to go away, but they don’t go away on one’s wishes until causes for arising of those unpleasant feelings are removed.
One who likes pleasent feelings cannot stop pleasent feelings from going away, he cannot maintain pleasent feeling as he likes.
One who hates unpleasant feelings, cannot stop unpleasant feelings from arising, he/she cannot remove unpleasant feeling as he/she wishes.
Now that all of you who contemplate this and rightly decide that feelings are useless. You would want to stop feelings right?
What is ultimate cause for arising of feelings?
Feelings cannot arise without sense contact.
What is ultimate cause for arising of contact?
formation of senses.
Without senses, sense objects cannot create contact at senses.
What is cause for arising of senses?
It is birth.
Without birth the senses cannot be formed.
What is cause for birth?
Avijjā is cause for birth. (Avijjā → tanha → upādāna → bhava → jati → whole mass of Suffering.)
What is Avijjā?
Avijjā is lack of paññā.
What is paññā?
I explained in all the above posts in group.
July 31, 2022 at 2:04 pm #39055
Unedited notes taken at moment of insight:
Birth is dukkha, illness is dukkha, old age is dukkha, death is dukkha. Not having/meeting liked is dukkhā, Meeting/having unliked is dukkhā. In short not having what one likes is dukkhā. PañcaUpādānaKhandha is origin of dukkhā.
By understanding the first noble truth the origin of dukkha must be understood.
Dukkha arises due to having PañcaUpādānaKhandha for saṅkhata with Aniccā nature. That is gist of this whole truth.
Now, why are the internal and external Rūpa of all kinds Aniccā?
If internal Rūpa were niccā (as per one’s desire, wishes), we could say that let senses (which are what internal Rūpa are) be always fulfilled, yet, despite putting so much effort (let alone the wishing) for their fulfilment, we are always left unsatisfied, unfulfilled, helpless state. Because we cannot desire what we have And we have never been able to have what we desire. Let’s say this statement is false, then tell me, what have you found in this unfathomably long sansarā that you can claim is according to your own liking completely and not only it is niccā but also you are able to keep it.
Permanent unending happiness, bliss, pleasure, rapture, joy is what everyone desires. No one is whole world can rightly claim that they are doing saṅkhāra for having Suffering, not for happiness. It is altogether a different matter, however, that happiness in this world is first conditional and second too momentarily/fleeting/brief/short etc.
Due to the happiness in this world being conditional, one must be CONSTANTLY making conditions to make sure that one will have his future happiness, if not, one will be grief struck and distraught.
So, this constantly working to have happiness is first kind of dukkhā that one must face.
Not having what one desire after saṅkhāra dukkhā
Not being able to keep what one desire after doing saṅkhāra
There are also two type of paths to happiness.
One is worldly happiness. We all know about worldly happiness. worldly happiness is defined by constant “chase” behind it. It is something we have ran behind for unfathomable long sansarā, yet where is that happiness? Isn’t this happiness (worldly happiness) like Mirage, you constantly running behind it, and in many cases to do get to this Mirage unlike Mirage in dessert, yet, one has never been able to keep it to one’s liking.
Another is kind of happiness that is completely mutually exclusive to worldy happiness. Biggest benifit of this this happiness is that once it is achieved it doesn’t require any further future maintenance.
It is truly according to one’s wishes. One can not ever lost it due to any reason. There is not even ounce of physical or mental suffering in it. It is permanent unending.
However, as this two types of happiness are mutually exclusive. One cannot have his foot in both of this happiness completely. Before understanding the message of buddha one is constantly standing on worldly happiness,
It is not that permanent happiness cannot be had by anyone. Anyone in this world can have permanent happiness. If only they chose to cultivate the causes that leads to permanent happiness.
First observation: this truth is not about feeling of suffering. it is about constantly present (inherent) problem of dukkhā.
Dukkha is removable suffering. Not unstoppable/unpreventable suffering.
It is removable, because it has originated from the causes. With removal of the causes leading to dukkhā, dukkha ceases. So, suffering is NOT inevitable if causes are removed for that suffering. For example, If one removes the causes for birth in human realm, all the dukkha one has to face in human realm can be instantly eliminated. Even better would be to remove the causes permanently, for permanent stopping of any suffering.
Now, old age and illness mostly applies to animal and human realm. This two realms are most prone to suffering caused by
Suffering is visible both here and now and suffering to come can also be easily predicated for future lives.
Suffering here and now: three kinds of dukkha in human realm.
Suffering in future: first is being born in apāyā. Second is again the insatiable nature of both internal and external Rūpa of any kind ranging from the most dense rupa of niraya to most subtle kind of Rupa in arūpāvacara Brahma realms. All are subject to
Analysis: direct dukkha, indirect second or third order effects of that dukkha. Niraya, human and any higher realm dukkha. Saṅkhata vs living being dukkha, Aniccā embedded in everything, origin of dukkha PañcaUpādānaKhandha.
All saṅkhata with dukkhā characteristic always makes us helpless at the end. Because we do them for happiness. We do saṅkhāra for this saṅkhata in hopes that we will have HAPPINESS. Noone wants this happiness to end. Yet, it always inevitably unstoppably goes away. Making us helpless in the end. Either of internal Rūpa or either external rupa will go into viparinama state. This change can be gradual (getting old in case of living beings and getting decayed in case of any non living saṅkhata) OR they can have sudden unexpected change in their state (sudden illness, sudden untimely death in case of living beings and sudden unexpected rapid change in case of any non living saṅkhata.) Leaving us helpless in end always. Either of this two type of change must happen to everything.
So, this is nature of suffering INHERENT in world. It is independent of ourself, our actions. Because it is inevitable unstoppable suffering.
Buddha goes as far as to say that world is indeed anchored in suffering. Why? Because, laws of nature are such that achieving permanent happiness in this world of 31 realms is impossible task, an uphill battle.
YET, we do not have to experience this suffering. Just because, ALL worldly objects are filled with suffering doesn’t mean we all have to experience suffering through them.
For example, if you knew the pan that is kept on stove is very hot, would you touch it?
Just like that if you can understand this much about the nature of worldly objects in world. How they have inherent dukkha nature in them, would you embrace them?
And our problem is just this,
we need to understand just this much.
First we should be able to understand how worldly objects are like hot pan.
Second we need to understand that just because a hot pan is in front of us, it doesn’t cause us suffering. It is when we touch it, that it leads to painful feelings. Here, touching hot pan means the tanha, desire to experience worldly objects. This tanha/craving is through either greed or hatred. Greed is more Fundamental, we want to have good part of worldly objects without their corresponding bad part (which inevitably comes up). We arise hatred when the “supposedly” good state of object inevitably turns to “bad” state.
Example. A very simple but illuminating example, would be about aging. One would not want to have decayed sense faculties, one would like to have faculties of young men, but, no one in world can have it to their own liking. However, one can stop having the human body in first place, that would automatically eliminate the suffering that comes consequently due to having human body. How would one do that? By removing the causes leading to birth of human body.
It must be mentioned that this are just narrow examples, but, the suffering characteristic is there in everything.
If someone were to say attachment is what leads to suffering, he would be wrong. Because, attachment does not lead to suffering, it is attachment to objects with nature of suffering that leads to suffering. If one were to attach to object that leads to true happiness they would not be suffering. So, it is not as much as problem of attachment as to it is problem of what we are attaching to.
We all want to have something which is niccā. That is we want to have something to our complete liking. That is why we device all shorts of methods and tricks to make ourselves happy. Going so far as to do various very very immoral kinds actions, all in our quest to happiness. (Harming others either physically or mentally. Lying, killing, stealing, beating, violence, corruption)
yet that is something utterly impossible. You don’t have to be Sisyphus. All Sisyphus can do is rolling the stones again and again. Yet, you have choice to change the way you approach this quets of Happiness.
If you were to run behind the kind of happiness that doesn’t change, doesn’t deteriorate with time, doesn’t go away once achieved, which js completely to your liking all the time, will you not want that kind of happiness ? Would not that be much better kind of happiness then the kind of happiness we constantly chase behind.
Quest for Sensual pleasures is bitter at beginning and end, sweet at the infinitesimal moment at the middle. Effort of acquiring sensual pleasures is suffering, sense faculties not fulfilled by such happiness even after getting it, is not to our complete liking either.
If you cannot have something the way you wish, is it niccā or Aniccā?
If you cannot have the good part of something without the bad part that comes with it, is it niccā or Aniccā?
So, becuse you cannot have good part without bad part, that is what Aniccā is. Not to liking. If it were completely niccā, than we would be able to have good part without bad part in any worldly object. We would not suffer, but, because they are Aniccā we suffer after touching them.
July 31, 2022 at 2:06 pm #39056
Attachment is not problem.
Because, when you have attachment, you work towards that goal/object to achieve it.
You should definitely have attachment to objects that give happiness.
But, for your own complete happiness without even shred of pain in it, you need to attach to and work towards such object which can give you just that.
So, Problem is wrong kind of attachment.
When you attach to object which are not in your complete control, unsatisfactory, not worth pursuing, unfruitful, meaningless, essenceless, so will be the result.
You will be unhappy and unsatisfied, *eventually*.
But, if you attach to objects which are to your complete liking, under your control that is kind of search that is useful and gives long term happiness.
You will be happy *eventually*.
So, attach to right kind of objects.
Don’t blame attachment. Blame wrong attachment, praise right attachment.
But, you will start to understand what is right and wrong kind of attachment, when you have right view of things in this world of 31 realms.
Poison is not a problem.
Drinking it is.
Hot pan is not problem.
Touching hot pan is problem.
Someone telling you that pan is hot is not a problem. You should be grateful to such person. Because now that you know it is hot and painful, you won’t touch it.
Problem would rather arise, if there was no sign on hot pan, that said this is “hot pan”, don’t touch it.
This touch is attachment with either greed or hatred.
Origin of attachment is thinking that object that you have attached to can give you permanent *lasting* happiness. This is part of ignorance.
Attachment to objects with Aniccā nature, happens out of ignorance that those objects are Aniccā, not niccā as you think.
If something is bad for your health and doctor says not to consume it and you consume it anyways, then that consuming is a problem. Not that thing in itself.
If the bench you liked was painted recently,
when you try to seat on it,
would problem arise when there is sign that says “painted”
when there is no such sign?
August 3, 2022 at 1:49 pm #39097
Is there anyone in world who is immune from worldly suffering?
If one thinks there is someone who can stop it or is immune from the suffering buddha talks about In first noble truth, one hasn’t understand the message of buddha yet …
Because, it is kind of suffering that is *impossible* to avoid.
Just like fish cannot eat worm without getting caught in hook. It is like that.
Every kind of suffering anyone has ever faced in long sansarā, is all described in first noble truth. Yet, one cannot ever exhaust oneself with contemplation on it.
Not only “what is suffering”,
But, it’s deepest root cause too.
It is deepest reason why we suffer.
Once that cause it eliminated, there is no more arising suffering in any form.
Buddha once said that bhikkus it due to not understanding this four noble truths that you and me, we both have wandered in this sansarā for so long.
So deep is noble truths.
Suffering which buddha describes,
No one is free from it.
And buddha is just messanger, he discovered that laws of nature are not compatible with long term well being and happiness of anyone.
No one can be free from it as long as one doesn’t understand what causes suffering ultimately on the deepest level, the very core of pain.
It is because we strive against the system that isn’t capable of providing the long term Happiness to any being, that we suffer so much.
This is hard to understand.
Because for so long we have tried to fight the entropy/disintegration/chaos of system, rather than setting our own affairs in order.
We hold world in very high esteem.
As long as we think it is us who are at shortcoming rather than world, we will keep suffering.
Because, how can one not suffer when one touches the hot pan.
Noone is free from dukkhā that buddha talks about.
Not scientists, politician, rockstar, actor, actress, musician, king, queen, Animal, Deva, Brahma, mara, preta, hell being, fish, insects …
MN82: Rathapala Sutta.
When King asks Arhant rathapala that despite him being healthy, young, wealthy why did he decided to become monk.
Then he describes the dukkhā that cannot be stopped by anyone at all.
*Dhamma summary -1:*
There is no true ownership in world.
(Who has been able to keep anything with death? even when alive one keeps doing saṅkhāra to keep possessions from decaying, even one’s merits are subject to exhaustion)
*Dhamma summary – 2:*
There is no true protection for anyone in world.
(can you stop death of someone, if you were to fall ill can someone share your pain?)
*Dhamma summary – 3:*
This world is insatiable, unfulfilling.
No matter how much senses pleasures one has, one never ever gets lasting satisfaction ever.
*Dhamma summary – 4:*
This world is swept away; it is not lasting; it doesn’t endure;
Is there anyone who doesn’t get weak with old age? Who doesn’t ever get helath trouble – illness?
I don’t think there would be so much delight in pleasure of world if we all honestly knew that we cannot stop suffering of our parents, our parents cannot stop suffering we have. Brother cannot help sister, sister cannot help brother, you cannot help relatives, relatives cannot help you in suffering that buddha talks about.
This doesn’t mean we all abandone the things and go in jungle and do some sort of meditation or chanting or some woodoo thing.
But, by accepting the truth, there is actually a greater possibility of helping each other out. Being more compassionate towards each other.
Because it is not just me or you, who suffers, it is everyone. (The Buddhist dukkhā)
August 10, 2022 at 1:51 am #39349
Anyone else realised the countless catch-22 feedback loops that exists in Paṭicca Samuppāda?
i.e. How things goes both ways.
Reason for all future suffering is birth and reason for birth is ATTACHMENT to objects with Aniccā nature. (This all objects are found in 31 realms only). One more reason is when one has birth, with birth one only experiences objects with Aniccā nature, one would form attachments to this saṅkhata with Aniccā nature because of seeing whatever little pleasure is found in them, ignoring the hidden suffering in them due to viparinama. With saṅkhata of Aniccā nature, one would have dukkha and dukkha alone eventually, not anything else ever. Because, nibbanā that is only niccā and asaṅkhata cannot be had by staying in the world, i.e. through rebirth in 31 realms anywhere in any type of birth of any type.
On the other hand, Without birth one would not meet objects with Aniccā nature, so would not form attachments with them, either. So, with that one would not experience any suffering that comes with attachment to objects with Aniccā nature and one would not have suffering that comes due to birth which is old age, illness and death either.
So, with REMAINDELESS cessation/stopping/removal of attachment/tanha to 6 internal/6 external Rūpa of Aniccā nature, as consequence of birth that is stopped, one would be free of all suffering,. So, one would never meet any Rūpa with Aniccā characteristic.
But, we are born again and again, in influence of viññana (expectations + memories + projections + vedana + sanna) to experience niccā sukkhā from something that is Aniccā and causes dukkhā (both in present and in future through rebirth) if we attach to it in hope of gaining sukkhā out of distorted diṭṭhi/saññā/cittā.
Buddha once said that one who has defiled viññana, cannot understand true nature of the world. Because, with viññana one doesn’t just see the objects as they are, but, they see it with coloured perception, one would project all sorts of expectations on that arammana. Projections about either how it can give happiness/pleasure, how it might lead to unpleasant feelings.
At the root lies our ignorance of this whole process.
p.s. ofcourse, ATTACHMENT to object with true niccā nature is not problem, because then one would actually have niccā state, then one would have both sukha and atta. And only object with true niccā nature is asaṅkhata nibbanā.
So, if someone were to claim that attachment is whole problem. NO. wrong kind of attachment is problem. Right kind of attachment is not Problem. One would lokottara samma diṭṭhi would have right kind of attachment. One’s right attachment would increase with every magga phala.
In summary why this is catch – 22?
Without birth one would not form any attachments.
Without attachments one would not have birth.
With attachment one would have birth,
And With birth one would deliberately/willingly create further attachments based on the perceived pleasent, Charming, delightful nature of that object (while avoiding their drawbacks and viparinama). Hence, would lead to more future suffering through birth.
So, both this loops feed into each other.
It is because of tanha for objects with Aniccā nature, one would have suitable birth. which inevitably leads to all sort of suffering that comes due to birth.
WITHOUT any birth whatsoever anywhere at all,one would not be able to meet objects with anicca nature, hence, not forming of attachment, hence no birth. Either meeting unliked or seperating from liked, it can happen only with birth, not otherwise.
So, Only when one eradicated the tanha for six internal and six external Rūpa with Aniccā nature, would one be able to escape from the suffering completely, otherwise, it is impossible that one would have birth and one would NOT meet something that is Aniccā.
And Without lokottara samma diṭṭhi, one would not see all this, would not see how objects with Aniccā nature are. Hence, one would have attachment, hence one would have upādāna → bhava → jati → jara, marana etc e.g. whole mass of suffering arising due to attachment to objects with Aniccā nature.
August 10, 2022 at 6:32 am #39352LalKeymaster
“Without birth, one would not form any attachments.
Without attachments, one would not have birth.”
– Yes. That summarizes the Samsāric journey.
We all should take a bit of time off the “rat race” and contemplate the dangers of the rebirth process. Most of us are too busy even to think through Buddha’s advice!
– We may not get another opportunity for millions/billions of years! This life is very short.
Sādhu! Sādhu!! Sādhu!!!
September 15, 2022 at 4:24 pm #40384
Countless infinite uncountable unfathomable number of great eons have passed so far …
Still no end to quest to pursue happiness in this world can be seen.
So many tears dropped.
So much blood spilled.
So many body of all sorts, aquired and dropped.
So many times building sandcastles on beach.
Small and big.
Only for them to be taken away by waves in some time
Struggling to gain liked.
Struggling to keep liked as wished.
Mourning at the helplessness arising due to seperation from all that was hold dear.
Struggling to keep away unliked.
Struggling to remove unliked.
Mourning against helplessness when despite all the efforts unliked still arises, when unliked can’t be removed.
Where’s true security in this world?
Where is it?
What have we found that we have been able to keep?
What true profit is there in this world?
This life too shall pass away in vain, empty way, just like infinite lives before …
Buddha has gave up, Great arhants have gave up.
Gave up seeking happiness in this world.
October 2, 2022 at 2:24 am #40671
Homage to my teachers Lal, Ven. Waharaka thero and Gautama Buddha,
Who are opening dhamma eyes of many in land of blind.
Topic: About depth of Paṭicca Samuppāda.
Dhamma is like wide ocean.
All of world’s rivers end in this ocean.
You can remove practically unlimited water from it, yet it would be not exhausted.
Name of the ocean is Paṭicca Samuppāda.
Rivers are all types of mundane worldly teachings, *religious* or *scientific*. They all have their foundation or foothold in dhamma. Not because, I say so, or because buddha says so, or out of faith.
BUT, because dhamma is timeless principle of how reality works.
Whether there is buddha or not, it remains as it is.
Meaning of “removing of water from ocean”:
You can derive insight about everything from buddha dhamma. There is answer to every question in Paṭicca Samuppāda.
Despite attempts of anyone to derive even unlimited amount of knowledge and insights from Paṭicca Samuppāda, it would remain as it is. There would always be more insights to be had from it. It would not be exhausted.
Such is dhamma.
However, It must be understood that dhamma is something that is discovered, it is not something that is created or invented.
Dhamma is not idea of someone about How reality works.
Dhamma is teaching of someone who could observe in its complete details how reality works.
Someone who knew all causes and all effects, everything about past, present, future and everything that is timeless.
I say that there is answer to all questions in Paṭicca Samuppāda, not because, it gives theory of evolution or because it teaches calculus, but, because it gives you answer to question about why were you asking question in first place or why you were ABLE to aks question in first place or why you NEEDED to ask question in first place.
It is deep, profound.
It is not about content of “life”,
but, it is about metadata of “life” and everything in it.
It gives you deepest layer of casuality.
When what exists that,
spiritual life exists?
When what does not exists that,
Spiritual life does not exists?
When what exists,
question and answer exists?
When what does not exists that,
Question and answers do not exist?
Such are some of the deep question that are answered by Paṭicca Samuppāda.
October 2, 2022 at 2:51 am #40672
Topic: What is wrong with Antinatalism movement?
Antinatalism is philosophy that holds that origin of all types of suffering can be traced back to birth. i.e. birth is reason for all suffering. Which is true.
However, this movement blames biological parents for giving birth to child. Which is what this movement gets wrong.
Parents are not 100% responsible for giving
Birth to child.
Birth of child is like seed turning into tree. Parents are responsible for providing water and nutrients to seed. They are NOT responsible for existence of seed in first place.
So, antinatalist are helpless in their own suffering, because, from their materialist POV about life, someone else is responsible for their suffering they cannot do anything about it and they will forever be helpless. Because, they cannot prevent their own birth from materialist POV.
However, this is not factually true.
Rebirth can be completely stopped from ever arising.
This is actually what buddha dhamma is all about.
How rebirth works, what is rebirth, what is suffering, it’s causes, it’s elimination, path to its end, why is it suffering in first place, etc all details are embedded in Paṭicca Samuppāda.
October 2, 2022 at 3:22 am #40673
There is ariya dukkhā and anariya dukha.
There is ariya niramisa sukha and anariya sukha.
There is ariya escape from dukkhā and anariya escape from dukha.
Ariya dukkhā: first noble truth, not having higher magga phala, not having removed San completely, having birth.
Anariya dukha: not having amisa sukha or sukha from jhana, not having birth or not having good birth.
Ariya sukha: magga phala, removal of san, nirodha samphatti, nibbanā, parinibbana, getting rid of dukkhā and getting rid of future suffering of saṁsāra.
Anariya sukha: having good birth, sensual pleasures, jhanic bliss, being king, having big families, properties, becoming billionaire etc.
Ariya escape from suffering:
From saṁsāra to nibbanā
Anariya escape from suffering:
From saṁsāra to saṁsāra.
(From one disease to another disease)
Escape from suffering of one place of sansarā to another place in sansarā is like, getting another disease when trying to cure one already existing disease.
Whole saṁsāra is disease.
October 2, 2022 at 5:10 am #40674
If anything belonging to six pairs (senses and corresponding objects) worked as per your wishes, would you ever let anything happen, that you don’t like or that causes Suffering?
Would you ever let yourself become helpless (not being able to free yourself from suffering)?
January 2, 2023 at 6:43 am #41938
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