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I found that deep contemplation of Etan Santan Etan Panitan all the time without a break in seeing the anicca, dukkha, anatta, gandho, sallato, parato, palokato etc., helps in not only experiencing bliss all the time, but if one were to just sit down and see it, can enter into all 4 jhanas in quick succession
thank you Lal…this was indeed a good experience for me. Also was able to understand about gandhabba within this body and also of 5 aggregates in terms or arising and passing away.
With this correct understanding of udayabbaya naana, the tanha for sensual pleasures or kama tanha greatly reduced to almost nothing and from morning to now, in the same state.
A very concise explanation based upon various Sutta’s relating to Nibbana can be heard from Ven.Katukurunde Nanananda Thero who has given proper explanation on what is Nibbana and how should one understand it.
There are 33 sermons and a book of this one was also suggested by Lal in one of his posts. The only issue is with Anicca and Anatta explanation and other than that, it is a good place to understand on Nibbana.
In the Jatasutta of the Samyutta Nikāya, Buddha hints on Nibbana as under:
Yattha nāmañca rūpañca,
asesa uparujjhati,
patigham rūpasaññā ca,
etthesā chijjate jatā.Where name and form
As well as resistance and the perception of form
Are completely cut off,
It is there that the tangle gets snapped.This answer is given by Buddha to a certain deity which asked a question on tangle within a tangle
Anto jatā bahi jatā,
jatāya jaitā pajā,
tam tam Gotama pucchāmi,
ko imam vijataye jatam“There is a tangle within, and a tangle without,
The world is entangled with a tangle.
About that, oh Gotama, I ask you,
Who can disentangle this tangle?”So basically, Nibbana is a stage where avijja of maha-bhuta’s no longer exist and tanha for possessing them does not exist, there arises Nibbana. In that neither I or we or anything which can be explained through language or syntax exist.
Thus, rupa, chitta and chetasika are of this world and nibbana is not of this world since there is no existence of rupa-nama. Thus there is no designation, language and vocabulary as in nama and no possession of rupa.
In another way, adhivacanasamphassa and paighasamphassa no longer is in contact or phassa and thus nama-rupa does not meet up thus stopping the vortex of samsara. This is also called nibbana.
It would be good to read about Maha Nidānasutta which not only explains PS but also gives indepth explanation of each paccaya especially on namarupa paccaya vinnana and vinnana paccaya namarupa. In that also, you can see nibbana arising when namarupa and vinnana is cut off. Meaning, the craving for nama-rupa is completely eliminated thus stopping the need for existence.
This stopping of existence is called nibbana
y not said: But speaking of ‘taking refuge’ : I found myself reflecting precisely on this ‘taking refuge’ matter last night.It is said: 1) Take refuge in the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha. and also 2) take only yourself as a refuge; take no other as a refuge (and that includes The Buddha, IT WOULD APPEAR).
You are right. Glad to note that you were also reflecting it yesterday night on the same topic. As explained by Buddha, it is always
“Attā hi attanō nāthō
kō hi nāthō parō siyā
attanā hi sudanténa
nāthan labhati dullabhan”“One indeed is one’s own refuge
how can another be a refuge to one?
one reaches salvation by purifying one’s mind
getting to refuge (Nibbāna) is rare”Lal has explained efficiently in https://puredhamma.net/dhammapada/atta-hi-attano-natho/
Usual explanation in all books relating to Jambūdīpa is rose apple tree as enumerated below:
Jambūdīpa : the auspicious Great Island where the Rose Apple (Jambu) tree grows. It is one of the Four Great Island – continents, that constitute the world system, the three others being : Uttarakuru, the Northern Island, Pubbavideha, the Eastern Island and Aparagoyana, the Western Island.
Was able to penetrate 10 dukkha in aahara which I’m listing out here:
Cycle of dukkha relating to aahara:
- Finding livelihood in order to get the aahara is a huge burden and dukkha
- Danger’s to life and property in search of aahara is huge burden and dukkha
- With quest on food, one get’s possessed with Raga, Dvesha and Moha and is completely entangled and mesmerised.
- To get food, one needs to employ one or many of dasa akusala and develop habits in order to survive the “self”. In that killing becomes predominant – mind, speech and body
- With these akusala kamma, one starts enjoying and suffering for the deeds in order to possess new ways to getting food
Results of dukkha on aahara:
- Food might remain undigested, putrid and distasteful which eating and thus can cause poison, vomiting, burning sensation, stomach aches etc., Also, one has to relieve for nature calls every now and then and cannot guarantee on how many times and how much quantity and texture the person is going to get and what complications it might lead to.
- Food creates all kind of diseases and one cannot say what kind and how it will affect and whether there would be a respite from them.
- Creation of Raga, Dvesha and Moha and it’s cycle results in more and more being bound to samsara and the person needs to do this exercise of finding food and suffering because of that again and again. This is because one need to plan for “future” and “time immemorial” and suffer in fear all the time for not getting the food at right time.
- In order to secure oneself, more and more dasa akusala kamma is undertaken and to create good conditions as well, need to do kusala kamma like dana, bhavana and other meritorious deeds to desire a good outcome in this and future lives
- Due to wrong actions in above, the being starts rotating in samsara from the 4 lower levels to human level and back to lower level since the food creates all kind of attitudes which harm the being all the time
Sybe07 said:
Next to this existence, which is always changing, which is anicca, dukkha and anatta there is reality. Reality is the one that does not change, it is nicca, sukha and atta. It is called Nibbana, the unconditioned.This does not arise, not vanish and does not change in the meantime (AN3.47)
I agree and never had any confusion on this one. The moment there is un-conditioning it, then it is nibbana. Un-conditioning happens when the person stops attaching to panchakhandas as they arise and pass away and that is how nature works. Thus he loses attachment to raga, dvesha and moha which is part of khanda’s and there is no “I” or “mine” in that.
This is what I wanted to explain in my above post on what is “I” and why a person holds on (upadana) on it.
We are not the khandas and reality is udayavaya only and that is the message of Buddha and there is no doubt left for me in that way.
Not sure where I got misunderstood or confused you.
the same sense of identity is a feeling due to “self” which exist in every chitta or thoughts.
When we were to meditate on “anicca” or “anatta” nature starting with breath or flow of fluids in body, arising and disappearing of thoughts as one of the object of contemplation, one can easily comprehend as under:
- There are mental impressions already existing – previous births, habits created in this life (Gati) and characteristics which is unique to that person. Let us call at as “vasana”
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Due to this, the being is attracted or repelled due to what he sees, hears, smells, touches, tastes and thinks. Now with this, there is a reaction based upon (1) above
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As an (re)action is taken there creates a “feeler I” [ vedana ] which stands out to compare with “perceiver I” [ sanna]
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As perceiver I stands out [ sanna ] it brings across comparison and that to operate at the optimum level requires “experiencer I” [ vinnana]
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With combination of Feeler, Perceiver and Experiencer, there arises the “Doer I” which is either taking action based upon past happenings or reacting due to first time experience of that happening.
All these 4 different “I” gives an impression of one un-changing self in everything we do as the thoughts already have in itself all these 4 different “I” categorised as ONE-SELF
To break this chain, the quickest is to look at the vedana or Feeler “I” and then apply panna or wisdom to gain ability in seeing “anicca” or “anatta” nature and thus breaking the bond of “tanha and “Upadana” which is cause of bhava and jati.
This is why, we see a continuous “self” and that is one reality which we see never changes.
Why would the Buddha suggest to make an island or refuge of ourselves when we would only be fleeting processes, without any stability?
This is because, the liberation is from the “self” identity and hence one has to make refuge as that “self also changes”
Tobias wrote :How do you understand the “love”-thing he is talking about?
Also this “…we are here in the soul school … you have nothing to fear…you are a devine creature”In my experience, what he saw was a place of para loka where it was filled with greenery and other beautiful things which is “pure sensual” and he felt like a soul school where each of them were playing and enjoying. This can certainly happen as there are many different dimension of paraloka depending upon each person’s gati.
Love here is unconditional is what everyone feels once he is out of body. This body is the limitation and if someone were to get out (as in astral travel) they can feel so blissful of being out of dirt and then feel deep love for all. The common love what we feel is always “conditional” and once the person is out of body for whatever reason is unconditional as it seems “blissful” and gives a chance for the being to wish for everyone’s happiness as feels liberated, but yet in para loka.
Thank you Lal for sharing this one.
Indeed, he had a great experience and hope that he can get rid of raga, dvesha and moha to merge in entirely which is what Buddha teachings will do for a person.
I was able to reflect upon the experience I had in 1995 which took me to a different realms of existence.
Continuation of Girimananda Sutta – Adeenava Sanna
Y not,
Glad to note that you are able to catch before it happens. That is a good sati. You may also look at watching how conditioned things (sankatha) arises and passes away when you think and also reverse the decisions like you did now.
That will take you deeper into all conditions which is seeing anicca, and anatta which is cause of dukkha and asubha.
With metta,
Y not said:How ‘high up’ were you when you were ‘in that happy state’, do you remember?From that place from where you did not want to return?
For gandhabbas restricted to the human plane are not in what may be described a happy state at all; they are craving a human body and envy those in them who are enjoying what they themselves are missing. They do not want to stay there.Well, after a while of out of body, still remember a place which was so peaceful and felt as though this is what I was to be. Don’t know how high up it was, but the place is very vivid even today which is filled with calm and nothing seem to move or change or in motion.
When I get into jhana now, sometimes, that place seem to get familiar but certainly not the one I had experienced then.
Hopefully, with cleaning of mental contents, someday that might become reality and guess that is what is called as “nirodha samapatti” state.
I had been to that place accidentally and with constant clearing of impurities, might reach that place with knowledge instead of just Out of Body.
y not said: “You saw your own physical body AND that of YOUR gandhabba (manomaya kaya)?”
Does your reply to the effect that “…was able to see how the manomaya kaya in my body looks” then mean: you were seeing both your physical body AND the manomakaya from above. Is that how it was? Because in that case, the question arises: if you were seeing both from above, then who was doing the seeing?
I think there is slight confusion here in what was meant and how I’ve explained and excuse me for this confusion.
Part 1: While in Bodhgaya – Here, I could see the manomaya kaya of everyone in Jhana. After that, I was able to understand how my inner body or gandhabba would looks. I was not out of body at this time, but since the jhana was so strong was able to understand or visualise on how mine would be.
Part 2: To question of Lal on coming out of body – I had this experience in 1995 when the manomaya kaya was out and it did seem to be very light and in a happy state. Could see the body lying there from above and after that, was in a very calm place from where I did not wanted to return. Then suddenly felt was thrown into something and I fell down from my bed and was perplexed on what happened.
Reading through material in internet in the year 2000, understood that it is called as “Out of Body experience”
Hope I could clarify on this one and feel free to ask me further questions.
