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A Sotapanna would act exactly the same a law-abiding, normal person would act.
The key is think about what kind of mental factors are likely to arise in such a person acting as a “good samaritan” or a “good neighbor”.
How can dosa arise in such a person who is trying to prevent a wrong doing? Law-breaking is almost always immoral. Preventing that is a good thing. Of course, there are limits to one can do. At least notifying the appropriate authorities can be done.
Thanks, Johnny. It has good points on why the consciousness cannot arise in the brain.
Embodied said: “I might be wrong but to me consciousness “was there” before humankind and will “be there” afterwards.”
Consciousness means life. As we have discussed in many topics, life has no traceable beginning. Humankind on Earth will be wiped out in a few billion years, but will return to the re-formed Earth.
Read the recent discussions in the “Dhamma and Science” forum.
Your worst kamma vipaka (actual abuse) is over. Now you can start fresh and focus on the future. The mind CAN heal.
However, don’t expect quick results. Keep taking the medication and hopefully you can reduce the dose over time, and eventually become free of medication.
y not said: “so far as I have read, only stars with several times the mass of the Sun can go supernova”
It is not necessarily the Sun that has to blow up. Any star in the 10,000 world systems can blow up. The point is that Sun will be destroyed in a supernova.
“If Universe never destroy what is universe catagory, since there is nothing in between sankata and asankata?’
The universe is never the same. Parts of it are destroyed all the time as I explained. “Universe” is just a label. It is a sankata. An entity that undergoes change with time is a sankata.
Again, Take time to think through. Please remember that this is a complex issue.
Of course, suddhashtaka have a lifetime. But they are CONSTANTLY generated by living beings. That is why it never ends. There will ALWAYS be an infinite number of beings generating Suddhashtaka.
Hi Eric,
I am very sorry to hear about your experience.Don’t be mad at me for saying this, but these are kamma vipaka. We all suffer at various levels as results of past kamma; of course yours is harsh.
The important thing is to understand this fact: Nothing happens in this world without one or more causes and when the result comes, it will run its course. But we CAN do two things:
- We all have done good kamma in past lives too. So, we can MAKE CONDITIONS for such good kamma vipaka to bring results, and those can lessen the suffering due to that bad kamma vipaka.
- Even more important, we should engage in good kamma, and follow the Path with determination, in order GET RID OF such bad kamma vipaka from arising in the future.
– Contemplating Dhamma will help you keep your mind away from those past experiences. At least you are not subjected to such abuse now. Try to keep the mind away from those memories. It serves no good to spend time thinking about it. Those are bad vaci sankhara, as I mentioned many times.
– Also try to think of your father as an agent used by Nature to bring those bad kamma vipaka to you. Try to forgive him. Most of all, stop communicating with him; that automatically will take the mind away from those memories.– We all are likely to have kamma viaka MUCH WORSE than what you are experiencing. For example, one could be born a farm animal, and we can see the kind of suffering they go through in the video “Earthlings”: “Nationearht.com“.
Warning: There are scenes that are highly disturbing to the mind.That post was one of the earliest written. I need to revise it, if I can find it.
15 billion years what the scientists estimate for the life of the universe which they assume arose due to the Big Bang. But according to Buddha Dhamma, the whole universe is not destroyed at once (and there was no Big Bang either). It is individual star systems that are born and destroyed in a billion year time scales, but not all at the same time.
According to Buddha Dhamma, the following is what happens:
1. The universe has no traceable beginning, just like life has no traceable beginning.
2. When our Sun blows up in a few billion years, 10,000 other star systems in the vicinity are destroyed due to that blast. In modern science it is called a superrnova.
3. Such 10,000 clusters of world systems blow up from time to time in the universe. Again, such supernova are observed by scientists every year.
4. What science does not know yet is that those star systems, like our Solar system, are re-formed over billions of years. Of course science is not aware of that part yet.
5. When our Solar system is destroyed, not all 31 realms are destroyed. Higher lying brahma worlds (where there is very little of “destructible matter”) are NOT destroyed. That is where all living beings on this Earth ends up before the destruction of the Earth.
6. Then when the Earth is re-formed, those brahmas — at the end of their lifetimes in those worlds — are re-born as humans.
7. Then the life on Earth evolves to other lifeforms too, and eventually is destroyed again after billions of years.
8. So, that is the life cycle. It happens all over the universe at any given time. That is why scientists observe several supernovas even in our own galaxy each year.This is the story detailed in the Agganna Sutta. It is very complex and requires more background material to discuss in detail. But that is an outline.
Uyap: It is not the universe that undergoes cyclic rebirth. It is our Solar system that undergoes cyclic rebirth. We discussed this in just a few days ago: “Are Every Buddha’s Teachings the Same?”
As I said, please think through carefully before rushing to post.
Uyap quoted from an article: ““As physicists analysed the idea it emerged that it carried with it the implication that the Big Bang would create not just one universe – but an endless supply.
Some, according to the Hartle-Hawking theory, would be very like our own, perhaps have Earth-like planets, societies, even individuals similar to the ones in our Universe.
Other universes would be subtly different – perhaps with Earth-like planets where dinosaurs were not wiped out. And there would be universes completely unlike our own, with no Earths, perhaps no stars and galaxies and different laws of physics.”These are all speculations, which are called theories. A theory is not accepted until it is confirmed by observations/experiments. That is very hard to do in Cosmology. Of course, there are indirect ways to confirm theories, but none is there right now to confirm any of this.
Human mind is naturally curious. We want to know everything, especially regarding this wondrous place called universe. It is mind-boggling, but exciting at the same time. I used to spend a lot of time reading science fictions as well as speculations about the origins of the universe, etc.
Let me start with a couple of stories from the Tipitaka that really settled the issue for me. One time, Ven. Moggallana, who was only second to the Buddha in psychic (abhinna) powers, wanted to explore the universe and see for himself how far he could go. He got lost! Buddha had to come to his rescue. I don’t remember the name of Tipitaka reference. It would be great if someone can post it.
– So, if Ven. Moggalana was curious about these things, even after becoming a chief disciple, it is not a surprise that most humans are curious.Then there is the account about a yogi, Rohitassa, who developed abhinna powers. He wanted to see the end of the world and took off looking for it, got lost and died. He was reborn a deva, came to see the Buddha and told the Buddha about his quest; see, “Rohitassa Sutta: To Rohitassa“.
Looking at the issue from another angle, let us think about Einstein. Of course, he made great discoveries. But he died a very discouraged person. Last several decades of his life, he did not make any new discoveries. He was obsessed with formulating a Grand Unified Theory that could explain all phenomena. He was unable to do that and died still trying.
– Even though I am grateful to him for all his discoveries, he did not accomplish very much in stopping future suffering. Even though he made some remarks about Buddhism based on incomplete and inaccurate information available at that time, he was not ever exposed to the main message of the Buddha.From the viewpoint of the Buddha, Einstein could have spent his life pursuing the Sotapanna stage (if he was exposed to true and pure Dhamma), and could have attained the Sotapanna stage.
– From this viewpoint, he would have been free of an unimaginable level of suffering. He may have been reborn a human (if he had kammic energy for the human bhava left), and now he would start all over with nothing to show for his accomplishments as “Einstein” in the previous life.Another key point is that these theories on a multiverse (innumerable universes, not Solar systems but whole universe with billions of galaxies in EACH one), is based on the assumption of a “Big Bang”: that a given universe basically came into existence from NOTHING, in an unimaginable explosive event.
– But the validity of that assumption is not proven either, even though most scientists believe in it; see, “What If the Big Bang Wasn’t the Beginning? New Study Proposes Alternative“.Cosmology is one of the things that the Buddha declared “unthinkable (acinteyya)” for a normal human. One can spend a lifetime looking into, and getting no where.
Here is a video from Carl Sagan to get an idea how vast our “detectable universe” is: https://youtu.be/5Ex__M-OwSA
More details at :”The Grand Unified Theory of Dhamma – Introduction“.P.S. I have deleted 3 postings that appeared above. Please do not use the discussion forum as a instant messaging board. Make only useful and thought-out comments. It does not serve anyone to make statements based merely on one’s intuition. One should provide reasonable explanations.
Sorry about the delay in replying. I am going to be somewhat busy for next several days. But I like to set the background with the following post:
“Buddha Dhamma: Non-Perceivability and Self-Consistency“.I am not sure how many if you have read it. What that post tries to say is that modern science is still at the very early stage compared to Buddha Dhamma. I will expand on that.
I also want to point out the following which is not really related to this topic, but important, regarding a statement made above.
Y not said: “Lal says somewhere that clinging is of two types: the normal one for sense pleasures etc. and Nibbana (of course these are my own words).”
This is not really correct. One’s desire to attain Nibbana is not called clinging. The Pali word is “chanda” and specifically chanda iddhipada; even the word “desire” may have a sensual connotation.
– But it is tanha which probably should translated as clinging. You may have the correct understanding, but if you use the word “clinging” that seems to imply attachment to something in this world.
– This is why it is better to understand key Pali words and use those even in English sentences whenever possible. We just want to make sure to convey the idea.The sutta is at: “Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta“.
The four posts there can be printed out or downloaded as a pdf using the “Print/PDF” button at the bottom of the page.
That can be done for any post at the website.
y not asked: “Are there any suttas where this ‘retrieving from bygone desanas* in relation to the various realms are given?”
This information is gathered from various suttas, including the Maha Parinibbana Sutta and the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta. It will take a lot of time for someone to make a referenced account.
y not asked: ““One can only make CONDITIONS for another to, say receive merits, but that living being must have the right causes to receive them; see, “Transfer of Merits (Pattidāna) – How Does it Happen?“.’
AND I have read that post. There it is said , simply put, that the other must be open to receive whatever merits are intended to reach him/her. I do not recall any mention of CONDITIONS that one can make FOR THE OTHER in that respect”
I don’t think I can explain it any better than in that post. I gave the following analogy: A radio/television station is broadcasting a program. But the reception of the program by a radio/TV depends on the quality of that device and also whether it has been “tuned” to the correct station.
So, just sending merits (broadcasting signal) is not enough. One at the receiving end must have the right mindset (receiver tuned to receive it).Uyap sadi: ““Buddha Dhamma is the Buddha’s doctrine could not be subject to change.”
AND “Then can I assume Buddha Dhamma is Asankhata?”There are many things in this world that do not change. For example, the nama gotta (memory records) are permanent. Buddha Dhamma is like those nama gotta; do not change with time. That is why it is “akalika“.
The word “sankata” is used to denote things that arise due to “sankhara“, and lead to suffering or are associated with suffering. They arise due to avijja or ignorance of the Four Noble Truths (or in other words Tilakkhana, the true nature of this world).
Nibbana is attained when when the root causes for suffering are removed, i.e., cultivating panna. When panna gets to its pinnacle at the Arahant phala moment, the mind has seen the absolute true nature of this world and will not do any more sankhara that will lead to future suffering of any kind. Nibbana is called “asankata” in that sense. It is attained by stopping the arising of all such sankhara.
@Eirc: I have already explained this in detail under another question of yours. I am pasting it below. Please feel free to ask questions if anything is not clear.
The two examples you give above do not belong to the “frivolous talk” category. To live in the society, we need to made “small talk”. Frivolous talk is when people get together and gossip for hours on end. The simplest way is not to consider these things as “absolute rules”. Some people avoid taking even a sip of alcohol for the fear of breaking a precept. That is being foolish. We need to understand that drinking is bad only because when done on a regular basis (and at extreme levels) it can be bad for your health and even more, it can lead to “bad decision making”; one’s mind can lose “mindfulness”.
What we need to understand is the priority of things to do, which tasks to focus on. Worries about spending time on watching TV, internet, movies, frivolous talk, etc will go away when one understands what the priorities should be.
I have explained this in various posts, and mentioned in this in response to a previous question of yours. But since this is an important issue, let me put this from a different point-of-view.
A key concept that has been hidden is “gati” (or “gathi”). Based on our actions, speech, and thoughts (which are kaya, vaci, and mano sankhara), we accumulate various gati, which can be loosely translated as habits/character, but more like moral character.
Let us take person X. If X is capable of doing actions suitable for an animal, he has “animal gati”. These could lie in a broad range, for example, vicious animals kill, so if X can kill (especially a human), then he has gati suitable for an animal. On the other hand, if X has cultivated rupavacara jhana, and enjoys getting into rupavacara jhana, then he has cultivated gati suitable for a rupavacara brahma.
X may have many different gati, but one of the strong ones will determine the bhava that is grasped. So, if X has strong vicious gati suitable for an animal, X is likely to grasp a bhava in the animal realm. On the other hand, if X has dominant gati of a rupavacara brahma, he would grasp that bhava and will be born a brahma to enjoy jhanic pleasures (which are of course temporary).
I really recommend everyone to watch the movie “Earthlings”,at the following site: “Nationearth.com“
(Warning: There are many scenes that are highly disturbing to the mind).So, animals in general undergo much harsh suffering than humans. So, such suffering is possible for X, if X has some kind of “animal gati”. If X is a serial killer, he has gati suitable for much harsher realms in the niraya. If X has “excessively greedy gati” (and thus can commit immoral things to get them), X could grasp a “preta bhava” and be born a preta. It must be noted that just engaging in normal sense pleasures do not belong to this category (so watching TV or going to movies is not a problem here; they are not “apayagami actions”).
So, if one is habitually doing strong dasa akusala, one has ‘apayagami gati”. Here apaya includes the lowest four realms of niraya, preta, asura, and animal. By following the Eightfold Path, X can get rid of such “apayagami gati”. Then one becomes Sotapanna. However, one needs to remove the 10 types of micca ditthi and also comprehend Tilakkhana. That comes AFTER making sure one abstains from those “apayagami actions”.
The next higher 7 realms are the higher realms of the kama loka: human realm and the 6 deva realms. One gets a human or deva bhava by cultivating “human gati” or “deva gati”. But there is still suffering in these realms, even though less than in the apayas. As long as X is attached to sense pleasures, X will have those gati. When one comprehends the long-term dangers of sense pleasures, one would get rid of such gati, and attain the Anagami stage (via Sakadagami stage; I am making this brief).
Once one becomes an Anagami, birth is still possible in the 16 rupavacara brahma realms and the 4 arupavacara brahma realms. Even though suffering in those realms are much less, there is still suffering there. When one realizes that eventually, one loses “upadana” for such bhava also, and one attains the Arahant stage. That is Nibbana. However, one should not even think about the Sakadagami stage until one is a Sotapanna/Sotapanna Anugami.
That is a basic outline. Of course, there are so many details. Those gati and bhava are fueled by Paticca Samuppada cycles that run each time X commits an akusala kamma (which cultivate apayagami gati) or punna kamma (which cultivate gati suitable for human and higher realms).
These set of gati are also called “asava”. When all gati are removed, one becomes an Arahant. Then one will not grasp any bhava. This is why Nibbana is also called “asvakkhaya” or getting rid of asava. Again, DO NOT even contemplate about anything higher than the Sotapanna stage. People get scared about “getting extinct”. One must take one step at a time. One can always stop at the Sotapanna stage! But it is good to get that overall world view of the Buddha.
Now, it is good idea to expand on the above outline by finding and reading posts on gati (gathi), bhava, jati, etc., the key words that you need to get a good idea about.
Once that is done, and the above world view becomes clear, one can make an “action plan” and decide what tasks to be undertaken first.
It is obvious that the first priority would be to avoid births in the apayas. So, one needs to make sure that one abstains from actions, speech, and thoughts that could lead to four types of “apaya bhava”, so to speak. These are the strongest versions of dasa akusala.
I discussed another related aspect in the post: “Basic Mindfulness for Niramisa Sukha“. Note that I have revised the titles of some discussions to make the subject matter clear.
Please feel free to ask questions. I can direct to appropriate posts to learn any concepts that are not clear. I think this is a good undertaking for anyone who is interested in making an action plan to follow the Path systematically.
