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Last night I watched the following video:
“James Tour: The Mystery of the Origin of Life”
This video provides the backgrounds for both ucceda ditthi (that there is nothing other than physical body to life and that life is ended with the death of the physical body) and sassata ditthi (that there is a soul surviving the death of the physical body, and that soul is eternal and was created by the Creator).
– Even though most scientists have ucceda ditthi, James Tour has sassata ditthi.James Tour clearly explains why evolution cannot be true and that science CANNOT explains the origins of life.
– At 39.50 minutes, he explains why it is not possible to take the physical body as “me”, because all the cells in the physical body are continuously re-generated (and scientists do not understand how the cells seem to be “programmed”).
– Therefore, he concludes, that life was created by God, the Creator.Of course, he does not know about the third (and much deeper) possible explanation provided by the Buddha: That life has no traceable beginning and that a given “lifestream” is reborn in a wide variety of forms including human, animal, deva, brahma, etc.
– Thus Darwin’s theory of evolution is wrong, just like James Tour explains.
– There is no need to resort to a Creator either. Everything can be explained in great detail with Paticca Samuppada. Of course that takes a lot of contemplation to grasp. It is the same “lifestream” that may be reborn a monkey or a human, for example.This video provides fundamental information that may help some of you to get a better understanding on how complex life is.
– James Tour clearly explains the how science cannot even create a single cell (basic unit of life) in the laboratory despite claims made that “we are close”.
– Science will NEVER be able to able CREATE life. It can create CONDITIONS for an existing lifestream (gandhabba) to get a physical body. That is what happened in the cloning experiments where sheep Dolly was cloned.Hello Upekkha,
Thank you for bringing to attention this important sutta.
Following is my translation of the whole sutta. If there are questions, please don’t hesitate to ask:
On one occasion the Blessed One was staying in Anāthapiṇḍika’s Jetvanarama monastery. Then Anāthapiṇḍika the householder went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, bowed down to him and sat to one side. As he was sitting there, the Blessed One said to him, “Householder, are offerings still given by your family?”.
“Food offerings are still given by my family, bhante, but they are coarse made with broken rice and not that good”. (My Comment: By this time, Anāthapiṇḍika had gone broke, having spent all his wealth building Jetavanarama and making offerings to the bhikkhus every day. But he got his wealth back later on).
“Householder, regardless of whether an offering is inexpensive or expensive, if it is prepared inattentively, disrespectfully, not with one’s own hand, as if throwing it away, with the view that nothing will come of it, then the results (vipaka) of that giving will not be that good: Whenever the result of that giving comes to fruition, one would not enjoy it even if it is splendid food, splendid clothing, splendid vehicles, or any other enjoyment coming through the five senses. And one’s children, servants, and other workers will not listen to one, will not be respectful. Why is that? Because that giving was not done with the proper mindset.
Householder, regardless of whether a gift is inexpensive or expensive, if it is prepared attentively, respectfully, with one’s own hand, not as if throwing it away, knowing that good kamma lead to good vipaka, then the results (vipaka) of that giving will be optimum: Whenever the result of that giving come to fruition, one’s mind will incline to the enjoyment of splendid food, will incline to the enjoyment of splendid clothing, will incline to the enjoyment of splendid vehicles, will incline to the enjoyment of the five sense faculties. And one’s children, servants, and workers will listen to one and will be respectful. Why is that? Because that is the result of a good kamma done with the proper mindset.
Once, householder, there was a brahman named Velāma. And this was the nature of the great gift, he gave: He gave 84,000 gold trays filled with silver, 84,000 silver trays filled with gold, 84,000 copper trays filled with gems. He gave 84,000 elephants with gold ornaments, gold banners, covered with nets of gold thread. He gave 84,000 chariots spread with lion skins, tiger skins, leopard skins, saffron-colored blankets, with gold ornaments, gold banners, covered with nets of gold thread. He gave 84,000 milk cows with tethers of fine jute and copper milk pails. He gave 84,000 maidens adorned with jeweled earrings. He gave 84,000 couches spread with long-fleeced coverlets, white wool coverlets, embroidered coverlets, rugs of deer hide, each with a canopy above and on red cushions. He gave 84,000 lengths of cloth—of finest linen, of finest cotton, of finest silk. To say nothing of the food and drink, staple and non-staple food, lotions and beddings: They flowed, as it were, like rivers.
Now, householder, I was Velāma the brahman at that time. I gave those expensive gifts. But those who received those gifts were not worthy of receiving them. Therefore, those givings did not lead to much merit”
However, if there was just one who was a ditthisampanna (Sotapanna) among them, that would have led to great benefits.
If one were to feed one Anagami, that would be more fruitful than that great gift that Velāma the brahman gave.Furthermore, if one were to feed just one Anagami, that would be more beneficial than feeding 100 Sotapannas.
– If one were to feed one Arahant, that would be more fruitful than if one were to feed 100 Anagamis.
– If one were to feed one Pacceka Buddha, that would be more fruitful than if one were to feed 100 Arahants.
– If one were to feed one Smmasambuddha– self-awakened One- that would be more fruitful than if one were to feed 100 Pacceka Buddhas.
– If one were to feed a community of monks headed by the Buddha, that would be more fruitful than if one were to feed a Smmasambuddha.
– If one were to have a dwelling built and dedicated to the community of bhikkhus, that would be more fruitful than if one were to feed a community of bhikkhus headed by the Buddha.
– If one with a confident mind were to seek the refuge Buddha, Dhamma, & Sangha, that would be more fruitful than if one were to have a dwelling built and dedicated to the bhikkhus.
– If one with a confident mind were to undertake the precepts—refraining from taking life, refraining from taking what is not given, refraining from illicit sex, refraining from misleading others, refraining from being intoxicated with liquor, money, power, etc—that would be more fruitful than if one with a confident mind were to seek refuge in Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha.– If one were to cultivate the anicca saññā even for just a short time only lasting a finger-snap (accharāsaṅghātamattampi aniccasaññaṃ bhāveyya), that would be more fruitful than all those great gifts that Velāma the brahman gave, and also greater than those other greater actions described above.”
End of the sutta.
My comments: There are four major “take-ins”:
1. Just giving for the sake of giving (without right understanding, etc) will not be fruitful, no matter how much is given.2. Even if a little is given with the right mindset, that will lead to much benefits (mahapphalataran).
3. Merits of such giving will increase greatly if the recipient is of worthy of receiving.
4. Comprehending the anicca nature even for a brief moment is much more beneficial than all givings mentioned.So, there are many things we can learn from this sutta. Most of all, it shows how important it is to cultivate the anicca saññā.
Tobias wrote: “Please see #9: “…Translated: ‘And what, bhikkhus, is the way leading to the cessation of identity? …”
I just revised that as follows to make clear that it is the “identification of one or more of the five aggregates as one-self that is sakkāya ditthi” (which is different from the saññā of a “me” or “māna” that is removed at the Arahant stage):
“And what, bhikkhus, is the way leading to the cessation of identity with the five aggregates (sakkāya diṭṭhi)?”This issue is related to the three types of vipallasa; see my comment above on June 22, 2019 at 1:47 pm. To quote from there:
“However, there are 3 types of “muddled views/perceptions/thoughts” called VIPALLASA (pronounced “vipallaasa”) about this world of 31 realms.
– Those are ditthi vipallasa, sannna vipallasa, and citta vipallasa”.Getting rid of ditthi vipallasa of nicca,sukha, atta, subha happens at the Sotapanna stage with the removal of sakkāya diṭṭhi.
– However, removal of “me” happens only at the Arahant stage with the removal of saññā of a “me” or “māna“.
– In other words, a Sotapanna knows that it is not correct to take any of the five aggregates to be “me”, but he/she still has that perception (saññā) and it arises automatically (citta). This saññā vipallas and citta vipallasa are removed by contemplating on the anicca, dukkha, anatta, asubha nature.1 user thanked author for this post.
Akmal wrote: “I wanted to ask, are occult practices mentioned in the tipitaka?”
There are no “occult practices” per se mentioned in the Tipitaka.
However, the word “occult” means “paranormal phenomena”, meaning phenomena that cannot be understood by modern science; see, the Wikipedia article, “Occult”.
In the days of the Buddha, not only the followers of the Buddha, but also other yogis were able to engage in such actions as flying through the air (with the physical body) or even visiting deva and brahma realms with the “manomaya kaya” (which is the same as gandhabba).
Such feats were achieved not by practicing “black magic” or mysterious procedures, but by cleansing one’s mind.
– Non-Buddhist yogis did that by abstaining from immoral actions, speech, and thoughts, and also by suppressing the desire for sense pleasures.
– Buddha’s disciples did those things by rooting out not only abstaining from immoral actions, speech, and thoughts, but also by eliminating sense desires by comprehending the dangers of sense pleasures.Therefore, we need to think about issues like this relating to mind phenomena depending on the context.
In another example, “astral travel” can be done by cleansing one’s mind as discussed above. Furthermore, those who has cultivated such capabilities in their recent previous lives can develop such capabilities without much effort. The same with anariya jhana; those who had cultivated them in previous recent lives can “get them back” easily.
– However, there people who are selling “their techniques” by promising to teach how to do astral travel. Those are hoaxes.
– Therefore, one needs to be careful in addressing these issues.
I do not have much time to address other issues, but these are my initial thoughts.Hello Upekkha,
Sorry to hear about your problems.
I do not think it is the Mara (or more precisely Mara Devaputta), is the one who is making these problems. As I have discussed several times (see the links below), Mara Devapuatta is a deva of the highest deva realm. He wants people to do good deeds and be born as devas like him. However, he does not like people following Buddha Dhamma, because the Buddha has taught that one should pursue Nibbbana, and not strive to be born a deva.
There are “really bad beings” who try to confuse people and get them into trouble. Since you have had some problems in the past, you may have become a target. It is good that you are continuing those good practices, and with time I believe you be able to overcome these influences.
From your description it is not quite clear whether this “voice” wants you to do bad things or just stop following Buddha Dhamma.
Also, I do not think past discussions at this forum would have anything to do with your situation.
Following links may provide some more information:
“What Does Buddha Dhamma Say about Creator, Satan, Angels, and Demons?“.
“Attitude towards kamaloka devas“, which was discussion at this forum some time back.
I understand the desire (and anxiousness that goes with it) of learning about Tilakkhana. Of course, it is the goal of each and every Buddhist.
Learning Buddha Dhamma (and especially Tilakkhana) is more like learning science/math than learning a natural arts subject like history or geography.
In the latter case, one can just memorize specific events in the past or specific geographic information. Once one memorizes that bit of information, there is nothing more to learn there.
In contrast, in math/science, one needs to understand concepts. Much more than memorization, one needs to be able to grasp key ides and then build on them. For example, one could memorize the standard multiplication table, and would then be able to answer questions on those exact multiplications that appear on the table: Thus, one would be able to answer that 3 times 5 is 15.
– However, if one is asked how much is 3 times 16, one cannot provide the answer unless one intuitively understands how to multiply such larger numbers.
– Thus, a teacher would have to first teach how such larger numbers can be multiplied using a certain technique. That technique CANNOT BE memorized. One just needs to understands the concept of multiplication of larger number.
– Furthermore, one can keep extending one’s capabilities to higher and deeper levels. There is no “end point”!Having a basic knowledge that dasa akusala are bad is like memorizing the multiplication table.
– Learning about anicca, dukkha, anatta nature is like learning how to do multiplication of any two random larger numbers.Just like multiplication of two random large numbers cannot be done just by memorizing the multiplication table, one cannot understand anicca, dukkha, anatta nature just by READING on what they are. The key ideas must be contemplated with examples from one’s own life.
– I have written many posts on anicca, dukkha, anatta (Tilakkhana). It is not necessary to understand each and every one of them. There are many different ways that one can comprehend Tilakkhana. Some may understand some aspects and others may understand other aspects. I myself keep learning about new aspects and then I write about that aspect.
– In that regard, discussions at the forum are very valuable. I wrote the past several posts after I contemplated and looked into deeper aspects of Tilakkhana, based on the topic, “what does ending of sakkaya ditthi really mean?“.Tilakkhana are fully understood only at the Arahant stage.
– Until then we just need to do our best to further our understanding. So, don’t be discouraged if you do not understand all aspects (i.e., each and every post).
– But each and every post will get you think in new direction or to further elaborate on a given aspect.
– Please don’t hesitate to ask questions if a certain aspect is not clear. It is also possible that I myself have not fully understood that particular aspect. As I said, Tilakkhana are fully understood only at the Arahant stage.Tobias wrote: “Vedana can be of 5 types: sukha, dukha, somanassa, domanassa, upekkha. Sukha, dukha and upekkha aris from kamma vipaka. But somanassa and domanassa vedana are mind made and fully removed at the Arahant stage. How are these 5 types connected to the universal vedana cetasika?”
Yes. Those are the five types of vedana and sukha, dukha and upekkha arise from kamma vipaka.
As the chart provided by Seng Kiat clearly illustrates, somannasa and domanassa vedana are fully mind-made.
– Those two are stopped from arising after the Arahant stage even in the present life.All five types are associated with the vedana cetasika.
However, the point in the post referred to by Tobias is that the first Noble Truth on suffering is not the physical suffering (dukha) itself.
– In particular, people tend to believe that one could get rid of physical suffering experienced IN THIS LIFE can be removed by attaining Nibbana. That is not correct.
– Only the somanassa and domanassa are removed at Arahanthood (that experienced in this life itself).
– However, any and ALL suffering (including physical suffering) are removed after the Aarahant attins Parinibbana, i.e., after the death of Arahant’s physical body.So, the First Noble Truth (Dukkha Sacca or “Truth ABOUT Suffering”) is about ALL future suffering. More precisely, it is about what kinds of sufferings are associated about the ALL future lives, including those horrific sufferings experienced in the apayas, not just the mild types experienced in the human realm.
Then the Second Noble Truth (Dukkha Samudaya or “san” + “udaya”) is about how that expanded suffering arises, i.e., the root causes (lobha, dosa, moha or “san”). Of course, this is described by Paticca Samuppada.
– This is a bit more deeper, since one needs to see how one gets “attracted” to “san” only because one does not comprehend the anicca, dukkha, anatta nature of this world. Instead one perceives the nature to be of nicca, sukha, atta.Third (Dukkha nirodha) shows how that suffering can be stopped from arising (“nir” + “udā”, where “udā” is “arising”), by getting rid of those three root causes: lobha, dosa, moha or “san”.
– That of course requires the comprehension of anicca, dukkha, anatta nature.Fourth (Dukkha Nirodha Gāmini Patipadā) is the way to removal of “san”, i.e., the Noble Eightfold Path.
The difference between suffering itself and the First Noble Truth are also discussed in the post, “Is Suffering the Same as the First Noble Truth on Suffering?“.
Hello diogorobert,
It is not possible to write in a few posts all the details. So, it is possible that one may get a wrong impression by reading a post. For example, it is not correct to say that,
“1. Walk the mundane eightfold path: get rid of ten dasa akusala”. The post that quoted does not say that a Sotapanna will not commit any of dasa akusala.– One must make a resolve to remove all dasa akusala. However, a Sotapanna has not removed all of them. Only an Arahant can totally abstain from dasa akusala.
– The hardest of the dasa akusala to remove is miccha ditthi. This is done in many steps, and completed only at the Arahant stage. First, one removes the ten types of miccha ditthi via the mundane eightfold path. Then one removes sakkaya ditthi at the Sotapanna stage. But the wrong views/perceptions of nicca, sukha, atta nature are removed and the anicca, dukkha, anatta nature fully understood only at the Arahant stage.
– I have not discussed nicca, sukha, atta as opposites of anicca, dukkha, anatta in a regular post (I believe). But It is discussed in more detail at: Discourse 3 – Distorted Perceptions or Saññā Vipallāsa; see, “Three Marks of Existence – English Discourses“.Your other points are correct.
However, I do not see why those are not consistent with the latest post, “Sakkāya Ditthi – Getting Rid of Deeper Wrong Views“.
Can you be more specific as to where the inconsistencies are? May be you can refer to certain bullet numbers in the post and point out why they are not consistent with any other post at the website.
Hello Lair (Lvalio),
diogorobert was just correcting a spelling mistake in his post (he spelled Sotapanna as “Sottapanna” by mistake).
By the way, one can correct such mistakes in the original post itself (by editing it). However, any revisions MUST BE done within an hour of the original posting. Otherwise, the post may get DELETED by the software that manages the forum!
Tobias wrote: “That is clear, Lal. What I mean is this: #3 says that ALL wrong views are removed with removal of sakkaya ditthi. But this is not the case. The Sotapanna still has wrong views e.g. about kama raga..”.
This is an important point that requires another post to discuss in detail. However, I have discussed it in a discourse about Tilakkhana; see below.
1. A Sotapanna has removed sakkya ditthi and thus ALL wrong VIEWS.
2. However, there are 3 types of “muddled views/perceptions/thoughts” called VIPALLASA (pronounced “vipallaasa”) about this world of 31 realms.
– Those are ditthi vipallasa, sannna vipallasa, and citta vipallasa.3. A Sotapanna has removed all 3 types of vipallasa about anicca and anatta nature.
– He/she has also removed ditthi vipallasa about dukkha and asubha nature (in this analysis, asubha is also included in addition to Tilakkhana).
– Therefore, he/she has removed all types of DITTHI vipallasa.4. An Anagami has removed sanna vipallasa about dukkha and asubha nature. Kama raga and patigha are removed only when one removes sanna vipallasa about dukkha and asubha nature.
5. Only an Arahant has removed all three vipallasa about anicca, dukkha, anatta, and asubha nature.
This was discussed briefly in #12 of the post, “Ditthi, Saññā, and Sankhāra – How They Relate“.
It is discussed in more detail at: Discourse 3 – Distorted Perceptions or Saññā Vipallāsa; see, “Three Marks of Existence – English Discourses“.
Tobias wrote: “I would say, with the removal of sakkaya ditthi one removes the 10 types of micca ditthi…”
You may want to think about the following.
There are two eightfold paths, see, “Buddha Dhamma – In a Chart” and the post referred to therein.
– Also see, “Mahā Cattārisaka Sutta (Discourse on the Great Forty)“.In brief:
– There are two eightfold paths.
– First, one needs to follow the mundane eightfold path and get rid of the 10 types of miccha ditthi.
– The deeper wrong views of nicca, sukha, atta can be removed and one can then comprehend the real nature of this world of 31 realms (only after one gets rid of the 10 types of miccha ditthi); see, “Three Marks of Existence – English Discourses“.
– When that happens, one becomes a Sotapanna Anugami/Sotapanna and starts on the Noble Eightfold Path.June 22, 2019: Just published a relevant post: “Sakkāya Ditthi – Getting Rid of Deeper Wrong Views“.
Thank you, AxelSnaxel, for opening this topic.
I have presented some information in the following posts:
“Boy Who Remembered Pāli Suttas for 1500 Years”
“Abnormal Births Due to Gandhabba Transformations”
“Manomaya Kaya and Out-of-Body Experience (OBE)”
“Gandhabba State – Evidence from Tipiṭaka”
There could be more relevant posts. I just remember those offhand.
– It would be nice if someone reading the forum has had any such experiences (OBE, NDE, etc) and can provide an account of that experience.
@Christian: I am just curious. Which points of AxelSnaxel above do you not believe?This is a good question. It has been asked in different forms, and the following discussion at this forum last year provides some explanations:
“Can an arahant or sotapanna become a Buddha?”
We can discuss more if you or anyone else has more questions.
That is the logical conclusion, Tobias.
However, I am not 100% certain about that applying to devas. Devas have very fine bodies compared to humans, but those are “much more dense” than bodies of brahmas. Devas can utilize all five physical senses (but of course, we cannot directly compare their experiences to ours).
– We do know that human Arahants do live “in this world” until the death of the physical body and attain Parinibbana (full Nibbana or total dissociation from “this world of 31 realms”) only when the physical body dies and the gandhabba separates from it.
– But I do not recall “direct accounts” in the Tipitaka about devas or brahmas attaining Parinibbana upon attaining the Arahanthood. However, since the “body” of a brahma is just a few suddhashtaka just like a human gandhabba coming out of a dead human body, it is very likely that a brahma attains Parinibbana upon attaining the Arahanthood.
– On the other hand, I also have not seen any accounts about “Arahant devas or brahmas” in the Tipitaka either.“Things” or “events” in this world arise due to six root causes (lobha, dosa, moha, alobha, adosa, amoha).
– Lobha, dosa, moha lead to rebirths in the apayas (four lowest realms).
– Alobha, adosa, amoha lead to rebirths in human and higher realms.
– All those perpetuate sansaric journey (rebirth process), and thus binds one to suffering filled “this world of 31 realms”.Those are the causes. When those causes are removed nothing in this can arise, and one attains Nibbana.
There are no causes for Nibbana. That is why it is called asankata.
– Nibbana RESULTS when all six causes are removed by cultivating panna, i.e., by comprehending the true nature of this world.Cultivation of panna is not a cause. It is the Path to Nibbaba (via removing all six root causes).
