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Before I answer the questions on bhava, I want to make sure that you understand what those translators do not understand, i.e., that there are kamma vinnana (that the Buddha stopped from arising at the Buddhahood), and vipaka vinnana (which the experienced until his passing away or Parinibbana.
– I am not sure whether you have read the relevant posts on that.I will respond to the questions later on. But I quickly scanned the attached document by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
On p. 131 of the pdf, it translates the terms in the “reverse order Paticca Samuppada” from SN 12:2. To quote: “Now from the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance
comes the cessation of fabrications. From the cessation of fabrications comes the
cessation of consciousness..”We know that the Buddha’s mind became free of avijja (“the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance” per the above quote) on the night of Enlightenment.
– So, did the Buddha become unconscious at that point?
– No wonder he starts the essay with, “The topic of becoming, although it features one major paradox, contains other paradoxes as well..” in the Preface (p. 5)
– “Bhava” (in his translation “becoming”) is not a paradox if one understands Paticca Samuppada.It is not just him. The following is the translation of SN 12.2 at Sutta Central
“Vibhaṅga Sutta (SN 12.2)”
– There the translation is: “When ignorance fades away and ceases with nothing left over, choices cease. When choices cease, consciousness ceases.”My question is: Why do people take these translations seriously?
– If they cannot explain what is stated by, “Avijjāya tveva asesavirāganirodhā saṅkhāranirodho; saṅkhāranirodhā viññāṇanirodho” they obviously cannot explain many other concepts including “bhava”.Possibly, but not definitive.
– Animals do things like robots. So, their kamma generation is different. But it requires an Abhidhamma analysis involving what types of citta can be generated by animals.
– We need to worry about the types of kamma humans can do. A human is capable of doing ALL types of kamma, good and bad.I most likely wrote: a “sotapanna with anariya jhana Will also not take birth in the kamaloka”
When you quote me, please link the post and the exact quote. It is a dangerous practice to say, “you wrote this and that” without providing a link to the quote.
Getting attacked by an animal is a kamma vipaka. It can happen to even an Arahant.
– For example, bāhiyo dārucīriya was killed by a cow just after attaining the Arahanthood. See, “Bāhiya Sutta (Ud 1.10)”
– The same thing happened to Pukkusāti: “Dhātuvibhaṅga Sutta (MN 140)”
– See the end of the sutta in both cases.Also, we remember that Ven. Moggalana was killed by a bunch of people.
– Thus, as long as one lives with a human body, any kamma vipaka corresponding to the human realm can take place (good or bad).
– Of course, only a Buddha’s life cannot be taken by anyone. But a Buddha can be injured, as Devadatta did to Buddha Gotama.P.S. Cultivating Metta Bhavana can get rid of some such kamma vipaka, but not all.
As I have explained before, one needs to be an Anagami to attain the first Ariya jhana.
– That is because kama raga anusaya is not there (i.e., kama raga must be completely removed) to get to the first Ariya jhana.
– Anyone below the Anagami stage would still have kama raga anusaya.It is a bit difficult at first to grasp these concepts. But once you understand the fundamentals, it will be much easier.
– One big obstacle is our tendency to evaluate everything based on the physical world.
– In the Western world, the mind gets a “back seat”. We can see that only the five physical senses are recognized.
– But in Buddha Dhamma, the mind is primary and material phenomena are secondary.
– That is why it is hard to understand some mental aspects and laws of kamma. Gandhabba is “much smaller” than an atom in modern science, yet it is the essence of a human!By the way, when I looked at the settings of the “PRINT/PDF” button, it is now possible to email a post too. I have added that capability. Thanks for that.
– I have also written to the people who make that software to ask whether it is possible to have that feature in the discussion forum.Unfortunately, that option is not there for the forum. But you can always right-click on the page and print the needed pages. It is not as clean.
Your questions:
“1. Gandhabba (containing anusaya gati) senses an available zygote (womb), one that is gati compatible with the parents.”
No. Gandhabba does not have any control over that. A gandhabba is pulled into a matching womb by kammic energy. That is mentioned in several posts.
– It is not possible to write all the details in one post. That is why you should make a list and go through all available posts.“2. Gandhabba enters the womb and triggers the body to grow.”
Again, gandhabba is not aware of this process. Once in a womb, it may not be conscious until the brain is developed. Brain development happens gradually and is complete around seven years of age. Even inside the womb, it is conscious to a varying degree.
“3. The brain facilitates consciousness only when arammana (sensory stimulus/pasada rupa) is present, thus mind (hadaya vatthu) is established. The arammana corresponds to the strongest kamma from a person’s past.”
Arammana is simply a sensory input. How do we hear a sound? That sound wave hits the ears and vibrates the eardrums. That signal goes to the brain where it is processed into a “sound signal” that is transmitted to the sota pasada rupa. That pasada rupa transfers the signal to hadaya vatthu (like a gong hitting a bell) and makes the hadaya vatthu vibrate 17 times (that is the citta vithi with 17 citta). The “sound sensation” arises in the hadaya vatthu with that citta vithi.
– That is explained in some posts including “Does any Object (Rupa) Last only 17 Thought Moments?”“4. It is a person’s individual gandhabba (containing anusaya gati) that is the thing that always keeps a person linked to who and what they are despite loss of consciousness or death.”
Yes.
Good question, Dosakkhayo.
1. The concepts of jhana and kasina have been badly interpreted in current Theravada texts.
– Buddhaghosa’s Visuddhimagga is mostly responsible for that.2. We need to start with understanding the FUNDAMENTAL idea of Nibbana.
– Even though relatively little suffering manifests in realms higher than the human realm, a “living being” spending most of the Samsaric journey in the lowest four realms (apayas) filled with suffering. Thus, the Buddha taught that this world of 31 realms is filled with suffering.3. “Full Nibbana” (Parinibbana or the “complete release from suffering”) is attained at the death of an Arahant. That Arahant will not be reborn in any of the 31 realms.
I need to keep repeating those basics because many people have not grasped those ideas (I am not directing this to Dosakkhayo). I just want to emphasize the foundation.
4. Thus, any meditation where the focus of the mind is a “worldly object” CAN NOT be a Buddhist meditation.
– In the “Samādhi Sutta (AN 10.6)” the Buddha explained that to Ven. Ananda.
– There Ven. Ananda asks the Buddha whether there is a Samatha meditation (samādhi bhāvanā) in Buddha Dhamma that is not based on kasina or other (e.g., breath) meditation.
– Instead of contemplating worldly things, one MUST contemplate the unfruitful nature of worldly things. That is vipassana meditation (as explained in the Anapanasati Sutta and in even more detail in the Satipatthana Sutta.
– If someone with magga phala likes to cultivate jhana (with Samatha meditation) they should contemplate the Nibbana that they have experienced (at that level):
“‘etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭinissaggo taṇhākkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānan’ti.”
– While anariya yogis get to Samatha (and anariya jhana) with the traditional kasina and breath meditation (detailed in Visuddhimagga) Ariyas (Nobel Persons) attain Nibbana with the above verse.
– That is what the Buddha explained to Ven. Ananda. The above verse is in that sutta. Note that the English translation could be misleading in some places, but one can get the general idea with my explanation. That translator, just like any other current Theravada teacher, still practices traditional kasina/breath meditations!5. Of course, #4 requires more details. I will start on a series of posts on jhana/kasina with the next post.
– I just got started on a series of posts on Anapanasati, but that needs to be on hold.
– That is fine because this background on jhana/kasina should be understood first.6. Let me address the question by Dosakkhayo briefly. I will discuss that in detail in the upcoming posts. The following is the verse he quoted:
“Dasa kasiṇāyatanāni pathavīkasiṇaṁ āpokasiṇaṁ tejokasiṇaṁ vāyokasiṇaṁ nīlakasiṇaṁ pītakasiṇaṁ lohitakasiṇaṁ odātakasiṇaṁ ākāsakasiṇaṁ viññāṇakasiṇaṁ. Tattha yañca pathavīkasiṇaṁ yañca āpokasiṇaṁ evaṁ sabbaṁ, yañca odātakasiṇaṁ. Imāni aṭṭha kasiṇāni samatho. Yañca ākāsakasiṇaṁ yañca viññāṇakasiṇaṁ, ayaṁ vipassanā. Evaṁ sabbo ariyo maggo yena yena ākārena vutto, tena tena samathavipassanena yojayitabbo.”
– Note that the verse refers to “Dasa kasiṇāyatana” or “ten kasina āyatana“.
– This DOES NOT refer to kasina OBJECTS.
– Anything in this world related to one or more of those “kasina āyatana“. Material things are made of pathavi, apo, tejo, and vayo and are located in ākāsa. Some objects have colors represented by nila, pita, lohita, and odāta. All “nāma dhammā” are associated with viññāṇa.
– Thus, to get to Nibbana (Arahanthood) saññā for all ten of those kasina āyatana must be uprooted. That needs a detailed explanation. That is what I will be doing with the new series of posts.7. The relevant point to remember is the following.
– Traditional kasina meditations or breath meditation can get one to jhana. One who cultivated such jhana WILL BE reborn in a Brahma realm.
– However, once that lifetime ends, rebirth in the human realm will take place first, and after that rebirth in ANY realm (including apayas) will again be “in effect”. That is why it is useless to cultivate traditional kasina meditation (with kasina objects like clay balls/water bowls, etc) or with breath meditation.I will respond to your first post later. I need to reply to another comment first.
But regarding your most recent comment: You don’t see the PRINT/PDF button at the bottom of each page? You should be able to download a pdf of a post AND print a post.
Questions and answers:
“Since the gandhabba (manomaya kaya) combined with pasada rupa, are ON all the time, can I assume that this is the MEMORY circuit (so to speak)?”
I wrote that gandhabba is alive (i.e, not dead). But it is not “ON” until an arammana comes in. I think I explained that.
– It is like a drum is there, but there will be no sound until something strikes it.
– That sound is like the consciousness. No consciousness until an arammana hits the hadaya vatthu (either directly with dhammā or via the five pasada rupa.)
– There is no “memory circuit”. What would that be? There is no need for such a thing.“If the brain does not produce consciousness (which I do not believe it does), why am I still me when I wake up in the morning or when a person who has been in a coma for 10 years regains consciousness and is the same person as before the coma?”
– You are the same you because the gandhabba (with the same anusaya, gati) is the same!
– Of course, anusaya and gati can change, but that happens over time, with understanding.“Is the gandhabba directly responsible for this?”
Of course, it is. The gandhabba (hadaya vatthu plus pasada rupa) is you. The physical body with the brain lasts only about 100 years, but a human gandhabba may live for thousands of years.
– The bain dies with the physical body. Gandhabba comes out and waits for another womb to make another body.
– As we have discussed, gandhabba is created by kammic energy and will last until that kamiic energy is spent. That is the end of “human bhava” within which one is reborn with a physical body many times.
– When that gandhabba dies, another one will be created by kammic energy, unless one has attained the Arahant stage. That new gandhabba can be born in any of the 31 realms. Of course, we normally reserve the word gandhabba only for humans and animals. But Devas/Brahmas also have hadaya vatthu/pasada rupa, so it is the same concept.I recommend going back and reading more posts on gandhabba:
“Search Results for: gandhabba”
– I do understand that it is a bit complex subject.The key is to understand the relationship between hadaya vatthu and the brain.
The following are the key points:1. Citta and thoughts (or consciousness) arise in hadaya vatthu.
2. But all six signals from the external world (sights through dhammā) come in via the brain.
3. While being unconscious the brain is totally inactive. Even while in deep sleep it is mostly inactive.
– For citta to arise in hadaya vatthu, there must be an arammana coming through one of the six senses.
– Thus, if the brain is not active, no citta vithi can be triggered, and thus no consciousness.
4. However, the gandhabba (hadaya vatthu plus pasada rupa) is alive at all times. But no citta vithi can arise until the hadaya vatthu is triggered.
5. Each citta has AT LEAST the seven universal cetasika: Phassa (contact); vēdanā (feeling); saññā (perception); cētanā (volition); Ekaggata (One-pointedness); jivitindriya (life faculty); manasikāra (memory).
– However, normally other cetasika also arise. There are 52 cetasika including vedana and saññā, and any citta with cetasika has saṅkhāra. Since “mano saṅkhāra” are defined as “vedana and saññā”
saṅkhāra are ALWAYS in a citta.
6. See, “Cetasika (Mental Factors)” for details on cetaiska.
7. Further details on the role of the brain at; “Brain – Interface between Mind and Body”If not clear, please feel to ask questions.
Yes. There was a post with that title.
The analysis there is not incorrect in the way it was done.
– However, it may lead to a “possible contradiction issue” because of the following. Most references in the Tipitaka refer to three stages/lakkhana of a sankhata: Uppāda (arising), ṭhiti (existence), vaya (destruction). See, for example, “Saṅkhatalakkhaṇa Sutta (AN 3.47).”
– That is why I removed it.As I remember, it discussed human life through five stages: born a baby, growing to a young age, enjoying life at that young age, getting to the middle age and experiencing discomforts/sicknesses, etc, and then dying.
– So nothing inherently wrong with that analysis. But I didn’t want to leave room for the possibility of inconsistency with the Tipitaka.Yes. That is a good description.
– But the Pali word is assāda, not assadā.
– We attach to some things (visuals, sounds, etc) in this world because they are likable. For example, a person of the opposite sex may look attractive, and one may like the sound of a piece of music, etc. Then we start thinking, speaking, and doing things (with mano, vaci, and kaya sankhara) to make them “ours” and to enjoy them more. Sometimes that makes us do immoral things. At a less damaging level, they make us bound to the “kama loka.”Regarding your question, see, “Kāma Assāda – A Root Cause of Suffering” and “Kāma Assāda Start with Phassa Paccayā Vedanā or Samphassa-Jā-Vedana“
