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Yes. That is a good description. There are many ways to express it.
1. Everything in this world is a sankhata, with a FINITE lifetime. That lifetime may have both sukha and dukkha.
– Living beings spend most of their Samsaric journey in realms filled with much more suffering.
– Rebirth in realms with more sukha is rare. Furthermore, it does not last.2. Rebirth in the 31 realms occurs according to Paticca Samuppada. It WILL NOT stop until the root causes (lobha, dosa, moha) are not there.
– Nibbana is realized (i.e., rebirth stops) with the removal of all root causes.
– The way to remove the root causes is the Noble Eightfold Path, starting with Samma Ditthi.
– Samma Ditthi is to “see” the truth of the above description. That is the beginning of the Path.The following post is from C. Saket:
Asanna state is like a coma, unconscious, lifeless, no citta…
An Asanna Brahma has all the asavas remaining, hidden. Whereas Nibbana is attained by permanently removing all the defilements, asavas.
However technically speaking, in both cases of “Asanna” state and “Nirodha Samapatti”, sanna and vedana are absent.
But that is the only similarity between the two.
There is a huge difference between an Asanna Brahma and the state of Arahant after death (Parinibbana).
Parnibbana is nothing like Asanna. It cannot be described by using rupa, citta and cetasikas at all !!! It is beyond this world!!!
To illustrate this error of regarding Nibbana as sheer nothingness, some Buddhist monks relate the story of the turtle and the fish. There was once a turtle who lived in a lake with a group of fish. One day
the turtle went for a walk on dry land. He was away from the lake for a few weeks. When he returned he met some of the fish. The fish asked him, “Mister turtle, hello! How are you? We have not seen you
for a few weeks. Where have you been? The turtle said, “I was up on the land, I have been spending some time on dry land.” The fish were a little puzzled and they said, “Up on dry land? What are you
talking about? What is this dry land? Is it wet?” The turtle said “No, it is not,” “Is it cool and refreshing?” “No, it is not”, “Does it have waves and ripples?” “No, it does not have waves and ripples.” “Can you
swim in it?” “No you can’t” So the fish said, “it is not wet, it is not cool, there are no waves, you can’t swim in it. So this dry land of yours must be completely non-existent, just an imaginary thing, nothing
real at all.” The turtle said that “Well, may be so” and he left the fish and went for another walk on dry land.In the Asaṅkhata Saṁyutta (SN 43) Lord Buddha uses various synonyms for Nibbana:
anāsavaṁ…saccaṁ…pāraṁ…nipuṇaṁ…sududdasaṁ…ajajjaraṁ…dhuvaṁ…apalokitaṁ…anidassanaṁ…nippapañcaṁ…santaṁ…amataṁ…paṇītaṁ…sivaṁ…khemaṁ…taṇhākkhayaṁ…acchariyaṁ…abbhutaṁ
…anītikaṁ…anītikadhammaṁ…nibbānaṁ…abyābajjhaṁ…virāgo…suddhi…mutti…anālayo…dīpaṁ…leṇaṁ…tāṇaṁ…saraṇaṁ…This clearly shows that Nibbana is nothing like Asanna.
Nibbana exists as an UNCONDITIONAL ELEMENT and it is beyond all our experiences of this world of 31 realms.
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Yes. I realized that.
In fact, there are realms where there is not only “no suffering” but there is “optimum sensual pleasures”. That is the highest Deva realm, Paranimmita Vasavattī Deva. See, “31 Realms of Existence.”
– Mara Devaputta (we normally call “Mara”) is in that realm. He is enjoying the highest possible “sensual pleasures.” So, he does not understand why anyone would want to attain Nibbana. He wants everyone to engage in moral deeds and be born in his realm.
– The only problem is that his life, even though long, is not eternal! At some point in the future, he may end up in an apaya.P.S. I see that you have added some descriptions of Nibbana by Bhikkhu Bodhi.
– Another point is there is no “person” attaining Nibbana. That is the wrong view of sakkaya ditthi; see, “Sakkāya Diṭṭhi – Wrong View of “Me” and “Mine””
– When causes are removed, rebirth will stop, and thus no possibility of future suffering.Thank you!
I just revised that post:
Vipallāsa (Diṭṭhi, Saññā, Citta) Affect SaṅkhāraNibbana is not a “permanent Asanna state”.
– As LayDhammaFolower wrote above, “Nibbanā is the complete absence of suffering after parinibbana.”No asanna satta (or any other living being) is free from future suffering.
– An Arahant is totally free from suffering after Parinibbana.Yes. An Asañña Brahma does not have any citta arising.
The main difference is that Brahma will be reborn when the lifetime in that Brahma realm expires.
– That is because not a single anusaya or a samyojana that binds to the rebirth process has been “broken” in an Asañña Brahma.But an Arahant will not be reborn after the death of the physical body.
Very interesting. Thank you!
Yes. Even after the cremation of other Arahants, such “indestructible dhatu” are found and venerated.
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Thank you! You have summarized the anicca, dukkha, and anatta nature well.
But keep contemplating the suffering endured by all living beings. That is the true Metta Bhavana and that will make your mind calmer.
– I had similar feelings in the early days too. I was quite frustrated that my friends could not see the “danger”. But, then I realized I had also not realized that during all this time in the rebirth process.Thanks, Seng Kiat and Lang for the comments.
The main point is that this chart requires explanation since it is not the standard version of the “patiloma Paticca Samuppada” or the “Paticca Samuppada in reverse order.”
– In particular, there is no saddhā, etc in Paticca Samuppada. Also, the connection between “dukkha” and “saddhā” must be explained. One needs to understand that the root cause of dukkha is attachment to sensory pleasures. That understanding leads to “saddhā“.
– Therefore, the chart does explain HOW the “patiloma Paticca Samuppada” process takes place. One must understand how dukkha arises to have that “unbreakable faith/conviction” or “saddhā“. That happens at the Sotapanna Anugāmi stage.I don’t think it is an arbitrary number.
– Why does a citta vithi have 17 cittās instead of 16 or 18? That is not arbitrary. That is the nature of those things (dhammatā).
– Some such phenomena do not have to have explanations.Yes. Your interpretation is correct.
I have not recently read the sutta. But it is likely that Chieftain Pāyāsi believed in a soul and he wanted to see a soul coming out of a dying person.
Buddhist Interpretation:
If a human dies and there is more kammic energy left in the human bhava, then the gandhabba would come out. Of course, even then that gandhabba cannot be seen by the naked eye.
– If that human was at the end of human bhava, then nothing will come out of the dead body if that human is reborn as a Deva or Brahma. In that case, a Deva or Brahma will be born in the appropriate Deva or Brahma realm simultaneous with the death of the human.
– If rebirth is in the animal realm, then an animal gandhabba will come out of that dead human body.I figured out why they made that chart.
1. It seems to be based on the “Upanisa Sutta (SN 12.23).”
– The English translation there may not make it clear. That is again the root problem with word-by-word translations.
– The key verse in the sutta is “Kā ca, bhikkhave, saddhāya upanisā?
‘Dukkhan’tissa vacanīyaṁ.” It is translated there as “I say that faith has a vital condition. And what is it? You should say: ‘Suffering.’
– That word-by-word translation is not enough. Faith arises when one understands the root causes of suffering! That happens at the Sotapanna Anugami stage. Then one can start following the Noble Path and attain Nibbana. The subsequent steps are listed in the sutta.
– I have briefly explained the main idea embedded in the sutta in #4 of “Origin of Life – There is No Traceable Origin.”2. The same problem is there with the chart. It does not explain how “conviction” is related to “suffering.”
– In #1 above, saddhā is translated as “faith” and not “conviction.”3. Let me know if the explanation is not sufficient.
Note: Please don’t reply to a specific comment, because that reply gets “hidden” like yours. Just reply below the last comment. You can quote from a specific comment made earlier.
P.S. I had commented on the sutta in #1 in a earlier discussion. The following is that comment:
When one really starts comprehending Dhamma (suffering and its root causes), one can start feeling it mentally and bodily. This is described in the Upanisa Sutta (SN 12.23):
“..With the comprehension of suffering (i.e., the First Noble Truth via Tilakkhana) faith results; with the growth of faith, lightness of mind (pāmojjaṃ) arises; with increasing lightness of mind, joy (piti) arises; with increasing joy, lightness of the body (passaddhi) arises; with increasing passaddhi, bodily sukha arises; with increasing bodily sukha, samādhi arises; with samādhi, yathābhūtañāṇadassana (knowledge and vision of things as they really are) arises; with the knowledge and vision of things as they really are, one loses attachment to worldly things (nibbidā), followed by losing cravings for sense pleasures (viragā), and liberation (vimutti), and to the destruction of all defilements (khayeñāṇaṃ)”.
That step-by-step process takes one all the way to Arahanthood.
Yes. In the Western world, the emphasis is on the body, not the mind.
– In Buddha Dhamma is exactly the opposite: “Manōpubbangamā Dhammā..“That is exactly right. Glad you understood. It is a step-by-step process to get to the Arahanthood.
– Most people cannot even imagine how the perception of “me” can go away. So, that is the wrong starting point.
– One first needs to get the “correct view” at the Sotapanna stage. That “correct world view” is confirmed at the Sotapnna phala moment. Every effort needs to be made to understand the Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana to get to that stage. it is not that the world does not offer “pleasurable things.” But the problem is that if one attaches to them, that WILL lead to future suffering. It is hard to see that because most of that suffering comes in future lives!
– Then, to get rid of the saññā vipallasa at the Anagami stage and to get rid of the even deeper citta vipallasa at the Arahant stage, one must contemplate that “correct world view” of anicca, dukkha, anatta repeatedly, especially when one is “drawn back” to sensory pleasures.
