June 20, 2022 at 1:31 pm #38157
If there is no permanent essence of any lifestream in Samsarā,
why do we FEEL like there is some sort of self, even after removal of sakkāya?
I would like to guess that it is because we have removed the diṭṭhi but saññā of “me” is still there.
What is difference between sakkāya diṭṭhi and mano which is removed at Arhant stage only?
June 20, 2022 at 1:47 pm #38158LalKeymaster
Good question. From the way you phrased it, I can see that you understand the main idea behind sakkāya diṭṭhi.
– But the keyword there is diṭṭhi.
– Sakkāya diṭṭhi is the wrong view that there is a “soul-like entity” in the rebirth process, i.e., that there is something permanent that goes from life to life.
Even after you SEE that there is no such “soul-like entity” you have the PERCEPTION (saññā) of “me” and “mine”.
– That WRONG saññā REDUCES AT THE Anagami stage and GOES AWAY only at the Arahant stage.
– In fact, there are THREE types of “vipallasa”: diṭṭhi, saññā, and citta.
– Both saññā, and citta vipallasa go away at the Arahant stage with the elimination of avijja and mana. So, “mana” (sometimes called “asmi mana”) is the “perception of a “me” and it is harder to remove than sakkāya diṭṭhi.
– See, “Vipallāsa (Diṭṭhi, Saññā, Citta) Affect Saṅkhāra”
Also, if you have not read the revised post on “Sakkāya Diṭṭhi – Wrong View of “Me” and “Mine”” please read that too.
June 20, 2022 at 11:10 pm #38161
Understood, clearly lal. Thank you.
We can similarly also say that sottapana has removed the deeper wrong view with knowledge of tilakkhana and removed sakkāya DIṬṬHI.
But, He still has PERCEPTIONS/SAÑÑĀ of kammā assāda or any other assāda being fruitful (niccā, sukkhā, attā)
So, over all we can say that diṭṭhi vipallāsa of Puthujjano worldview goes away starting at sottapana anugami stage, but, vippalasa saññā of this Puthujjano worldview only goes away at anāgāmi stage.
Here, Puthujjano worldview means seeing what causes suffering as pleasurable/fruitful/helpful/meaningful.
June 21, 2022 at 6:02 am #38166LalKeymaster
That is exactly right. Glad you understood. It is a step-by-step process to get to the Arahanthood.
– Most people cannot even imagine how the perception of “me” can go away. So, that is the wrong starting point.
– One first needs to get the “correct view” at the Sotapanna stage. That “correct world view” is confirmed at the Sotapnna phala moment. Every effort needs to be made to understand the Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana to get to that stage. it is not that the world does not offer “pleasurable things.” But the problem is that if one attaches to them, that WILL lead to future suffering. It is hard to see that because most of that suffering comes in future lives!
– Then, to get rid of the saññā vipallasa at the Anagami stage and to get rid of the even deeper citta vipallasa at the Arahant stage, one must contemplate that “correct world view” of anicca, dukkha, anatta repeatedly, especially when one is “drawn back” to sensory pleasures.
June 25, 2022 at 4:24 am #38273
Many Thanks to you,lal.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.