Mentioning of a soul in Pāyāsisutta

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    • #38181

      In the Pāyāsisutta

      Chieftain Pāyāsi said to Venerable Kassapa (not the full text)

      ‘Hopefully we’ll see his soul escaping.’
      ‘appeva nāmassa jīvaṁ nikkhamantaṁ passeyyāmā’ti.
      But we don’t see his soul escaping.
      Nevassa mayaṁ jīvaṁ nikkhamantaṁ passāma.

      Venerable Kassapa give the 2.7 The Simile of the Dream (2.7. Supinakaupamā) and mentioned

      “But did they see your soul entering or leaving?”
      “Api nu tā tuyhaṁ jīvaṁ passanti pavisantaṁ vā nikkhamantaṁ vā”ti?

      – #1. What Pali word are they using for mentioning of a soul? Is that word “jivam”? If it is, does jivam really mean soul? I looked into this and something of interest that came up. Someone mentioned “jiva = can mean life or life force or soul, depending on context.”

      – #2. Someone also mentioned “Jīva” was one of the terms used for “soul/self” by non-Buddhists. Therefore, since the Buddha very frequently addresses non-Buddhists and non-Buddhist ideas, he’ll use “jīva” for “self” like they occasionally do in the Upanisads, Vedas, etc.” Is this fairly accurate?

    • #38182

      Yes. Your interpretation is correct.

      I have not recently read the sutta. But it is likely that Chieftain Pāyāsi believed in a soul and he wanted to see a soul coming out of a dying person.

      Buddhist Interpretation:
      If a human dies and there is more kammic energy left in the human bhava, then the gandhabba would come out. Of course, even then that gandhabba cannot be seen by the naked eye.
      – If that human was at the end of human bhava, then nothing will come out of the dead body if that human is reborn as a Deva or Brahma. In that case, a Deva or Brahma will be born in the appropriate Deva or Brahma realm simultaneous with the death of the human.
      – If rebirth is in the animal realm, then an animal gandhabba will come out of that dead human body.

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