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Dosakkhayo wrote:
“And 36:53
So, it is important to make this connection. Our sankhara and specifically abhisankhara lead to future lives based on whether they involve dasa akusala or dasa kusala.”– What I said is technically correct. But I can see why that could lead to confusion.
The following comment by LayDhammaFollower provides a good explanation: “There is no such thing as kusāla abhisaṅkhāra. Abhisaṅkhāra either puñña or Apuñña, are done out of ignorance.”
Let me clarify that a bit more.
– Puñña kamma (good, moral deeds done WITHOUT understanding the Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana) are NOT kusala kamma. Since avijja (ignorance) about the real nature of this world is still present, such good deeds have underlying expectations for “good returns in this world,” such as getting a “good rebirth where one can enjoy life.”
– The same good, moral deeds by a person WITH an understanding of the Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana AUTOMATICALLY BECOME kusala kamma.
– P.S. That change in understanding comes at the Sotapanna Anugami stage, where one starts grasping the danger of getting a rebirth in any realm of this world. That is when one first gets to Samma Ditthi and starts on the lokuttara path to Nibbana. Until then, anyone just doing puñña kamma is on the mundane Eightfold path. Also see “Vipallāsa (Diṭṭhi, Saññā, Citta) Affect Saṅkhāra”That is a critical point to understand.
– In the absence of the correct Buddha Dhamma, people may do puñña kamma, but they are UNABLE to do kusala kamma.
– It is ONLY when one understands the not only unfruitful but also DANGEROUS nature of continuing the rebirth process that one will be able to convert the same puñña kamma to kusala kamma. That involves only a change of mindset!Please read the post, “Kusala and Akusala Kamma, Puñña and Pāpa Kamma” and ask more questions if not clear.
– It is a subtle but CRITICAL point to understand.By the way, I am quite impressed by the progress of LayDhammaFollower. I learned that he is only 23 years old. Sadhu! Sadhu!! Sadhu!!!
Tobias wrote: “Thus this “chemical base” + gandhabba (patisandhi vinnana) is the “origin of life” with a dense body. It is only that modern science does not know the gandhabba is required, right?”
Yes. That is correct.
– We see a lot of confusion these days about “when a baby can be called human”?
– In the US, there are many “theories” about when a baby becomes “fully conscious.” Then that evolves into arguments about “a baby not being human” up to a few days, a few months, or even at birth. Some even speculate that since a child cannot “think rationally” until at least a couple of years of age, they may not be “human.” How ridiculous is that?A zygote in a womb becomes human as soon as a gandhabba merges with it!
– See “Buddhist Explanations of Conception, Abortion, and Contraception”Tobias asked: “What is spontaneous reproduction of “certain humans” and “certain beings in the lower realms”?”
– There are a couple of accounts in the Tipitaka where a human baby was born on a flower. Here, it is a saṁsedaja birth. I think bhikkhuni Uppalavaṇṇā, who became an Arahant, was born on a flower. That means a zygote assembled on a flower by natural means (chemical composition), and the gandhabba of Uppalavaṇṇā merged with that zygote. That is an extremely rare event.
– There are some petas (or pretas) and niraya beings who are born spontaneously (in the final form), just like the Devas and Brahmas.In MN12 that you referenced, the four types of yoni (ways of birth) are stated:
“Sāriputta, there are these four kinds of reproduction” (Catasso kho imā, sāriputta, yoniyo.)”A better translation would be: “Sāriputta, there are these four kinds of births”
The sutta states those four kinds as, “Aṇḍajā yoni, jalābujā yoni, saṁsedajā yoni, opapātikā yoni” which can be translated as “Born from an egg, from a womb, from moisture, or spontaneously.”
In a way, ALL births (that take place at the cuti-patisandhi moment) are opapātika or spontaneous births.
– The “four modes of birth” apply to mainly humans and animals.
– The manomaya kaya/gandhabba created spontaneously by kammic energy can lead to “births with physical bodies” in the other three ways.Thus, the “seed” for the other three modes comes from the manomaya kaya/gandhabba.
– For humans, a gandhabba gets into a womb and is born with a physical body. That is the “jalābujā yoni” or “birth from a womb” with “breaking out of the amniotic sac.”
– For animals, all three modes apply. Some (monkeys, deer, etc) are born like humans (jalābujā yoni“); Chicken, birds, etc. are born from an egg (aṇḍajā yoni). The last mode of saṁsedajā yoni is rare for big animals and applies mostly to smaller ones. Here the required “chemical base” for the gandhabba happens naturally in rotten meat or leaves.
– Note that in all three of those modes, a “seed” (manomaya kaya/gandhabba) must have been first produced by kammic energy.Also, note that in all realms above the human realm, all births involve one step, i.e., spontaneous birth (opapātika) via kammic energy.
Well done! Thank you for sharing with us.
– Others may want to express their insights/comments, especially looking from different angles.Note-taking helps clarify concepts. From my school days, I have tried to write down what I learned in my own words. In a way, that is what I am doing on this website too. As the understanding grows, one can express a given concept better.
– Trying to put ideas into words helps clarify. Just reading through a post is not enough. At least one should contemplate new concepts and try to express them in one’s own words. That is Vipassanā! Then one can compile notes.Sampappalāpā does not mean “small talk.”
– You can see from some suttas that the Buddha himself first engaged one in “small talk” before that person would ask a question. That is being polite.Palāpā mean “untrtuh” or “adhamma.”
– When used in conjunction with “san” that also has implications of “lobha, dosa, moha.”
– Sampappalāpā probably derived from “san” and “palāpa.”Sampappalāpā most often involves rattling off on funny, vulgar topics or where one is disputing the truth, i.e., dhamma.
– Even in some serious discussions, when one takes a position against rebirth or non-existence of gandhabba, for example, that could count as sampappalāpā because that is making dhamma to be adhamma.
– Not realizing the truth is not an excuse. This is why miccha ditthi is the worst type of akusala that can make one reborn in an apaya. That is because one’s actions, speech, and thoughts are based on wrong views.1 user thanked author for this post.
Yes. If someone needs to understand what the “essence of a human life” is, one needs to understand what I described above.
– It is the manomaya kaya/gandhabba created by kammic energy when grasping a human bhava.
– That gandhabba is “so small” that it’s merging with a zygote in a mother’s womb is undetectable to modern science.
– That is also why modern science is silent on the accumulating evidence for “Near-Death Experiences” or NDE. The video in my first comment is only one of many. Accumulating evidence for rebirth accounts is yet another piece of evidence.I tried to explain that in the “origin of life” series.
– I am not sure how many people understood.I did a search on “alzheimer” using the search box on the top right:
“Search Results for: alzheimer”The first result is your new question. The others are also discussions and posts with the word “Alzheimer.” I don’t think I had a post exclusively on “Alzheimer’s.”
The “sensing elements” that EXPERIENCE vision, sound, taste, smell, touch, and memory recall are NOT the eyes, ears, tongue, nose, body, and brain.
– The “sensing elements” are in the “energy-body”/”manomaya kaya/gandhabba. Those are the set of pasada rupa (cakkhu, sota, jivha, ghana, kaya) and the hadaya vatthu.In terms of the recent post, “Three Types of “Bodies” – Poṭṭhapāda Sutta (DN 9)” we can say the following (see #3 of the post):
– The eyes, ears, tongue, nose, body, and brain are in the “A solid, heavy physical body.”
– The real sensing elements of pasada rupa/hadaya vatthu are in the “mind-made subtle body”Many sicknesses/diseases/injuries happen to the eyes, ears, tongue, nose, body, and brain.
– That is the price we pay to “enjoy close physical contact (taste, smell, and touch/sex)” with the physical body.In many cases, the eyes, ears, tongue, nose, body, and brain “malfunction” due to kamma vipaka or old age.
– Alzheimer’s disease is a brain problem. If the gandhabba comes out of the physical body (as in an NDE), likely, it would not have any memory loss.The following video (which was in the above-referenced recent post) clearly illustrates this point w.r.t. vision:
– That is a critical point. I have now posted this video on several posts, but I am not sure how many people grasped its importance.
Also, see “Brain – Interface between Mind and Body”
P.S. Yes. An Ariya (a Noble Person) can get Alzheimer’s. It is a kamma vipaka. Remember that Ven. Moggalana was beaten to death, and that was also a kamma vipaka.
– Anyone with a physical body is subjected to kamma vipaka, like Alzheimer’s, injuries, and diseases. Even the Buddha had some physical ailments like back pain.
– Suffering stops ONLY at the death of an Arahant, i.e., with the death of the last physical body.Yes. The succinct verse: “Tattha katamo aniccaṭṭho? Pīḷanaṭṭho aniccaṭṭho pabhaṅgaṭṭho sampāpanaṭṭho vivekaṭṭho aniccaṭṭho, ayaṃ aniccaṭṭho”
can be analyzed in great detail.The word sampāpanaṭṭho means “with the meaning of sampāpana.”
– “sampāpana” is “san” + “pāpana” where “pāpana” implies “inducing pāpa” or “inducing immoral.” Of course, “san” is to “add.”
– Thus, sampāpanaṭṭho conveys the idea that not comprehending anicca nature induces people to engage in immoral activities (pāpa kamma.)It helps to pronounce the Pali word sampāpana instead of “sampapana”
– These are minor details.1 user thanked author for this post.
“ñatvā” means “with that understanding”.
– So, your translation is good.Also, you may have missed the recent discussion: “Peṭakopadesa”
– There are many possible (related) meanings to “anicca.” The same holds for “anatta.” See at the end of “6. Suttatthasamuccayabhūmi”I am glad that you are spending time digging into this issue.
Here are the correct interpretations that I believe are consistent with ANY reference in the Tipitaka:
1. Nicca means the view/perception that something/anything in the world can be maintained to one’s satisfaction and can bring benefits.
– Icca is the craving for worldly things based on the above perceived “nicca nature.”
– Anicca is the opposite of nicca.2. The words with the additional letter “h” (niccha, iccha, aniccha) emphasizes those characteristics.
Now, if anyone can find contrary evidence to the above, we can discuss them.
3. Conversely, many English translations ALMOST ALWAYS translate “anicca” as “impermanence.” That is wrong.
– They sometimes correctly translate “iccha/niccha/aniccha” (as in #2 above). An example of the correct translation is the first verse that you referenced.4. An example of an incorrect translation is in the second verse that you referenced:
“Sukhajīvino pure āsuṁ, bhikkhū gotamasāvakā;
Anicchā piṇḍamesanā, anicchā sayanāsanaṁ;
Loke aniccataṁ ñatvā, dukkhassantaṁ akaṁsu te.”Translated in “Jantu sutta (SN 2.25)“:
“The mendicants used to live happily, as disciples of Gotama,
Desireless they sought alms; desireless they used their lodgings.
Knowing that the world was impermanent, they made an end of suffering.”Here, the translator INCORRECTLY translated “anicca” as “impermanent.”
– That does not flow with the rest of the verse/sutta.If you repeat this exercise, you will find more inconsistencies.
May be we should discuss the concept of “nirodha samapatti” in more detail if it is unclear.
– That will help get the correct idea of Nibbana (particularly Parinibbana of an Arahant).Please read the following post and ask questions if not clear:
“Nirōdha Samāpatti, Phala Samāpatti, Jhāna, and Jhāna Samāpatti“This is a good example of why “anicca” should not be translated as a single word of “impermanence” in English.
“Tattha katamo aniccaṭṭho? Pīḷanaṭṭho aniccaṭṭho pabhaṅgaṭṭho sampāpanaṭṭho vivekaṭṭho aniccaṭṭho, ayaṃ aniccaṭṭho.”
– It means, “What is meant by the “anicca lakkhana“? – It means (things in this world) are to cause stress (Pīḷana), are of “breakable nature (pabhaṅga), induce one to engage in immoral deeds (sampāpana), cause restlessness (aviveka).”There are even more words used to describe anicca in another Tipitaka Commentary. It is not necessary to analyze each of them.
– However, I have discussed the Pīḷana nature in the post, “Anicca – The Incessant Distress (“Pīḷana”)“1 user thanked author for this post.
That sutta provides the correct description.
The difference between a dead body and the body of an Arahant in nirodha samapatti is the following:
– The dead body is “really dead.” It does not have a pulse or body temperature; the body becomes cold.
– The physical body of an Arahant in nirodha samapatti does not have a pulse either. But the body temperature is maintained by kammic energy.That is the description in the sutta.
– But, if one understands the concept of nirodha samapatti, there is no need to look for a sutta.Thanks for the additional references, Seng Kiat.
But I think those three are types of ñana (levels of wisdom) too. Indriya is another name used.
– They are included in the section on “Ñāṇakathā” per my link above. “Ñāṇakathā” means “details on the types of Ñāṇa.”In any case, one can interpret it in any way one likes. It is an “attainment.”
