Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Those are good questions. But it is time to look at those issues from a different point of view.
1. The difficulty in understanding the gandhabba concept lies with the mindset (mostly in the Western world) that is anchored on materialism. Starting with ancient Greeks, it was assumed that everything in this world can be explained with matter (objects that have weight and take up space).
2. However, within the past 100 years or so, after the scientists started probing the matter in detail, they have got into the “quantum regime” where the boundary between matter and energy disappeared. Now we know that matter can be converted to energy (atomic bomb) and that “invisible energy” can move matter. An example of the latter is the ability of scientists to drive robotic vehicles on the Moon from a laboratory on Earth.
3. So, why is it difficult to conceive that the gandhabba can move the physical body? If scientists can move a vehicle on the Moon from here (using pure energy as the intermediary), why can’t the gandhabba (which is essentially an “energy body” with very little matter) move the physical body from within the physical body?
4. The other question about the “instantaneous” movement of a gandhabba to a womb or the birth of a Deva in a Deva realm to take place instantaneously with the dying of a human on the Earth.
– There is a verified phenomenon of “quantum entanglement” in physics. In 1997 Nicholas Gisin did the first experiment with entangled photons, in which they were sent seven miles apart via optical fibers. If one of those photons was forced to change its spin (an intrinsic property) that INSTANEOUSLY changed the spin of the other photon. See, “Quantum Entanglement – We Are All Connected”5. The rebirth process works in a similar same way. But the explanation is a bit deeper because it takes place in the vinnana dhatu.
– When the gandhabba of a human dies (at the end of human bhava) a Deva in a Deva realm is born instantaneously. Those are just two events on the same “lifestream”. The potential to cause a Deva life in that Deva realm may have been there for a long time (as that human did moral deeds and built up enough kammic energy in the vinnana dhatu). That is also the “kamma bhava” which turned to “uppatti bhava” at the moment of death of that human.
– For further details on vinnana dhatu, see, “Search Results for: vinnana dhatu nama loka”It requires time and effort to understand these deep concepts. But it is fully worth the effort.
Yes. Well stated, Tobias!
– Another point is the following. Even though the goal is future happiness, most people are tempted to engage in immoral deeds seeking such goals. The results are NOT according to one’s WISHES but according to the types of kammic energies created by the mind.
– Mind is the most powerful entity in this world: “Manōpubbangamā Dhammā..”It should become clear when you see that iccha and anicca are related.
Anshu64 wrote: “I have one more concern that Abhidhamma explains how the mind turns into the matter and matter turns into mind..”
That is explained in Paticca Samuppada (PS). We can see that as follows.
1. PS cycles start with “avijja pacccaya sankhara” and end up with “bhava paccaya jati” leading to suffering.
– So, the “seeds” for that jati (birth) were sowed in the mind, with “avijja pacccaya sankhara”.2. In the step of “bhava paccaya jati” it is the manomaya kaya (gandhabba in the case of a human or an animal) that is first born.
– That manomaya kaya has a suddhatthaka-size hadaya vatthu. Our thoughts arise in that hadaya vatthu.
– So, that is where “matter turns into mind.”3. Thus, it is a cyclic process. As long as the “avijja paccaya (abhi)sankhara” step is there, the PS cycle will continue.
– The solution is to comprehend the Four Noble Truths/ Tilakkhana by understanding the PS process that leads to rebirth (Akusala-mula PS) AND then to follow the Noble Eightfold Path.
– Then one will be on the reverse PS (Kusala-mula PS) that starts with “avijja nirodha sankhara nirodha” ending with “bhava nirodha jati nirodha”. That is the end of suffering.This is a good issue to discuss since it can give some insights. Thanks for bringing it up.
– I am going to put it in the point form. If anyone has questions, please refer to specific bullet numbers.1. Abhidhamma starts at a basic fundamental level. Rupā are categorized into 28 types, cittā into 81 (121) types, etc. Such a detailed analysis provides a solid foundation for Buddha Dhamma.
– However, Abhidhamma cannot “break down” subtle concepts like anicca or the Noble Truths to that level directly; see #4 below.2. An analogy is as follows. Physics (in particular elementary particle physics) provides the backbone for science in general.
– However, physics CAN NOT explain how living cells arise. Biology starts not with physics, but with the ASSUMPTION that living cells exist. They don’t know how living cells came into existence. Even though living cells are made of atoms and physics understands atoms, there is a gap from there to a living cell that has not been explained.
– I discussed that in the “Origin of Life” section.3. However, Buddha Dhamma can explain how living cells arise. They come into existence via the laws of kamma, dictated by Paticca Samuppada (as I explained in that section on “Origin of Life.”)
4. In the same way, Tilakkhana and Four Noble Truths cannot simply be analyzed in terms of 81 (121) citta, 52 cetasika, and 28 types of rupa.
– However, it is again Paticca Samuppada that is the bridge between those fundamental entities and deep concepts of Tilakkhana and Four Noble Truths.5. Paticca Samuppada is explained in the Sutta Pitaka: SN 12.1 through to the end.
– Paticca Samuppada is explained in DETAIL in the “Vibhaṅgapakarana” (of the Abhidhamma Pitaka) in the “Paṭiccasamuppāda vibhaṅga” section.It is good to look for “deeper explanations.” So, I am not trying to discourage such questions as the one from Jorg.
– But in some cases, there are no such explanations, like the one I mentioned above for 17 cittas in a citta vithi.
– Of course, I could be wrong in this particular case. If there is such an explanation, I would like to know too. If I come across one, I will post it.OK. I found it. It is a series of suttas. You can get the translations of those terms in the English translation below.
LayDhammaFollower asked above (in response to a comment by C.Saket):
In the Asaṅkhata Saṁyutta (SN 43) Lord Buddha uses various synonyms for Nibbana:
anāsavaṁ…saccaṁ…pāraṁ…nipuṇaṁ…sududdasaṁ…ajajjaraṁ…dhuvaṁ…apalokitaṁ…anidassanaṁ…nippapañcaṁ…santaṁ…amataṁ…paṇītaṁ…sivaṁ…khemaṁ…taṇhākkhayaṁ…acchariyaṁ…abbhutaṁ
…anītikaṁ…anītikadhammaṁ…nibbānaṁ…abyābajjhaṁ…virāgo…suddhi…mutti…anālayo…dīpaṁ…leṇaṁ…tāṇaṁ…saraṇaṁ…Can we have translation of this words if possible, that would be much helpful.
***
1. I think I mentioned this before too. Please don’t just REPLY to an old comment. Then your comment ends up “hidden” among old comments. Just make your comment at the end of the thread. If needed you can refer to an old comment, give the name of the commenter and quote a paragraph from there.
2. Can C. Saket provide a link to the specific sutta with that quote or at least provide the name of the sutta? Please always try to do that. Otherwise, others have to waste time looking for specific references.
What I am saying is that we cannot just focus on the rupakkhandha.
– Attachment to rupa cannot be dissociated from those mental aspects arising from the contacts among external and internal rupa.That is why it is “panca upadana khandha” that is dukkha, not just “rupa upadana khandha.”
Hello Anshu64,
1. I do not know of such an “elemental analysis” of anicca (or dukkha, anatta, or the Four Noble Truths) in Abhidhamma. Do you know? If so, please give references in the Abhidhamma Pitaka.
2. If you cannot provide such references, do you know why such analyses are not there in the Abhidhamma Pitaka?
Lang’s comments:
1. Asanna realm: Yes. The asanna satta has hadaya vatthu and pasada rupā (i.e., manomaya kaya). But it is inside a “physical body” that has no eyes, ears,.. or brain. That means the manomaya kaya is unable to contact the outside world. Thus, no citta can arise.
2. When an Arahant is in sannavedayita nirodha samapatti, the physical body is maintained by rupa jīvitindriya (kammic energy) but no sensory contacts are made. There it is the mind that “shuts off” external arammana.
– To get there an Arahant must systematically go to the fourth jhana, arupavacara samapatti, and then to sannavedayita nirodha samapatti.3. Rest of the first comment is correct.
4. I am not sure what you mean in the second comment.
– Of course, Nibbana is NOT Samsara.
– Samsara is the rebirth process. To get to Nibbana one must attain Arahanthood. At the death of the physical body the Arahant (Parinibbana), Sansaric process ends, and Nibbana is complete.
– In the language of mathematics, Nibbana and Samsara (living in this world) are mutually exclusive. After the Parinibbana, an Arahant is totally disengaged from this world, i.e., no longer in Samsara or the rebirth process.Your thought process is good.
But can look at it the following way too.
1. Rupa play a dominant role. For any mental entities to arise, an internal rupa must come to contact with an external rupa.
– There are six internal rupa and six external. Note that dhammā are rupa too: “What are Rūpa? – Dhammā are Rūpa too!”2. Thoughts with “viparita (distorted) sanna” (sanna vipallasa) and “samphassa-ja-vedana” arise COULD arise due to such contacts.
– Then based on those “mind-made” sanna and vedana, vinnana (future expectations) arise and we engage in abhisankhara that lead to future rebirths and other types of vipaka.3. When we recall past events, we recall not only the associated rupa, but also associated four types of mental entities: vedana, sanna, sankhara, vinnana.
4. Therefore, attachment involves all five aggregates. Thus, panca upadana khandha (pancupadanakkhandha).
