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1. This is why I often say that suttas cannot be translated word-by-word. They need to be explained in detail.
“Sutta Interpretation – Uddēsa, Niddēsa, Paṭiniddēsa”2. The “Uṇṇābhabrāhmaṇa Sutta (SN 48.42)“ is a short sutta.
– But, it requires an understanding of 4NT/PS/Tilakkhana, at least to some extent.3. If I am forced to summarize the following steps:
“manassa kho, brāhmaṇa, sati paṭisaraṇan”ti.
“Satiyā kho, brāhmaṇa, vimutti paṭisaraṇan”ti.
“Vimuttiyā kho, brāhmaṇa, nibbānaṁ paṭisaraṇan”ti.
“Accayāsi, brāhmaṇa, pañhaṁ, nāsakkhi pañhassa pariyantaṁ gahetuṁ. Nibbānogadhañhi, brāhmaṇa, brahmacariyaṁ vussati nibbānaparāyaṇaṁ nibbānapariyosānan”ti.I may write:
A cleanse a mind is the help/refuge to Sammā Sati
To get to vimutti ñāṇa Sammā Sati helps/is required.
Vimutti ñāṇa is the way (help/refuge) to get to Nibbāna.
Once one reaches Nibbāna, no more progress to be made. That is the end of the effort!– But, it requires even more explanation, especially for someone unfamiliar with the difference between sati and Sammā Sati, etc..
4. The verse before “Manassa pana, bho gotama, kiṁ paṭisaraṇan”ti?” is the following:
“Pañcimāni, brāhmaṇa, indriyāni nānāvisayāni nānāgocarāni na aññamaññassa gocaravisayaṁ paccanubhonti. Katamāni pañca? Cakkhundriyaṁ, sotindriyaṁ, ghānindriyaṁ, jivhindriyaṁ, kāyindriyaṁ. Imesaṁ kho, brāhmaṇa, pañcannaṁ indriyānaṁ nānāvisayānaṁ nānāgocarānaṁ na aññamaññassa gocaravisayaṁ paccanubhontānaṁ mano paṭisaraṇaṁ, manova nesaṁ gocaravisayaṁ paccanubhotī”ti.
– That requires even more explanation.
– It is by not letting the five sense faculties (indriya) become ayatana that one cleanses the mind. That is explained in the post, “Indriya Make Phassa and Āyatana Make Samphassa” and the in the links therein.5. Please don’t expect to learn Buddha Dhamma by reading suttas translated word-by-word. That is an impossibility.
– That is why I have several posts under “Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta.” Of course, those posts also refer to many more other posts!You are correct. I had written about “removed defilements” instead of “removed suffering.” Even though they are related, not the same. Thanks for pointing it out.
– This post has not been revised recently. I just revised it and made other changes too.Let me know if anything else in that post require revision.
Good question!
I highlighted the three keywords that appear in the three suttas above in Dosakkhayo’s questions: paṭibhāga, paṭisaraṇa, atthiya
The last two are easier to translate:
paṭisaraṇa means to provide refuge/protection.
atthiya means “(possible) benefit.”The first one, paṭibhāga, means something like “The presence of this can lead to that benefit.”
One must grasp each word’s meaning in the context of the other questions (preceding the quoted questions above) in each sutta. You can go through the three suttas and ask more questions.
P.S. You should read the English translations provided with each sutta. See whether it makes more sense if you replace their translation with the above.
You are welcome!
You still did not do the links correctly.
Instructions for linking web pages in #2 of “How to Post/Reply to a Forum Question”
– I just now revised those instructions.To repeat the linking instructions:
2. In particular, it is good to use the “link” button to provide a link to another post on this website or an external web page. To describe the procedure, let us assume that you want to provide a link to the “Abhidhamma – Introduction” post on the website.
(i) Open that post in a separate window.
(ii) Copy the post’s title (“Abhidhamma – Introduction”) and paste it into your text window.
Select that text with the title (“Abhidhamma – Introduction”) and click the “link” button. It will open a new window to put in the web address.
(iii) Go to that other open window with the “Abhidhamma – Introduction” post and copy the web address from that web page (which in this case is “https://puredhamma.net/abhidhamma/abhidhamma-introduction/”).
(iv) Come back and paste that to provide the link at the URL input. Note: Don’t forget to check the little box “Open link in a new tab” so that when someone clicks on the link, it will be opened in a new window.
(v) That is it!I hope they are clearer now. Please send me an email or comment below if those instructions need improvements.
– Anyone can try out a test page if they like. Just write “TEST” at the beginning and try to link the “Abhidhamma – Introduction” post below to follow along exactly! I can delete such “TEST” posts later.
“Abhidhamma – Introduction”
– It is worthwhile to try it out and learn how to do it correctly. That will make comments/questions look better. Also, opening a link in a separate tab enables the reader to go back and forth between the comment and the referred web page.“asādhāraṇena ñāṇa” is wisdom that is uncommon or “not shared with average humans.”
– Not many humans can comprehend 4NT/PS/Tilakkhan and get there. That is why it is called so.The Buddha has several asādhāraṇena ñāṇa not shared with even Arahants. Only a Buddha would have them.
Note: Please take time to properly insert a link.
I had to take the time to “fix” your link.Quite insightful!
“Without birth, one would not form any attachments.
Without attachments, one would not have birth.”
– Yes. That summarizes the Samsāric journey.We all should take a bit of time off the “rat race” and contemplate the dangers of the rebirth process. Most of us are too busy even to think through Buddha’s advice!
– We may not get another opportunity for millions/billions of years! This life is very short.Sādhu! Sādhu!! Sādhu!!!
Glad to hear that, Jorg.
“paccupaṭṭhitā” means something like “when present.” “Sati” means to “have that mindset,” i.e., the comprehension of Noble Truths/PS/Tilakkhana that worldly pleasures are like bait for a fish (leading to future suffering).
When one engages in anupassanā (in this case, cittānupassanā) with that mindset, one’s wisdom will grow, gradually losing cravings for worldly pleasures which are devoid of value: “yāvadeva ñāṇamattāya paṭissatimattāya anissito ca viharati, na ca kiñci loke upādiyati.”
This is why any anupassanā is NOT limited to formal meditation. Whenever an “unfruitful arammana” comes to mind, one should discard that arammana via such contemplation.
OK. Glad to hear that.
You wrote: “It’s very difficult for me to construct a sentence while conveying my thought.”
I think you should write the comment using a word processor. That way, you can take time and ensure your ideas are conveyed correctly.
– Once satisfied with your writing, copy and paste it on the forum.
– Putting ideas into words is not easy. That is my main concern when I write.1) Correct.
– Note that somanassa/domanassa vedana arise due to “samphassa-ja-vedana” or “mind-made vedana”.
– Once one starts understanding that things in this world are not worth pursuing, such “mind-made vedana” will start decreasing.2) Yes. It is important to understand what is meant by “kāye kāyānupassī viharati,” “vedanāsu vedanānupassī viharati,” “citte cittānupassī viharati,” and ” dhammesu dhammānupassī viharati.”
– They mean “to be mindful of kāya, vedanā, citta, and dhamma.”Kāya can be interpreted in several ways: (i) real nature of the physical body made up with inert matter (four great elements), (ii) how one acts with the physical body, and, (iii) how such actions arise based on “samphassa-ja-vedana.”
That last one connects to the next section on vedanā. When “samphassa-ja-vedana” arise, one must contemplate that they arise due to one’s attachments and that such vedana can lead to improper actions with bad consequences. That is simply “vedanāsu vedanānupassī viharati,” or being mindful of the real nature of “samphassa-ja-vedana” at all times.
The section on citta does the same but states a bit differently. When greedy, angry, ignorant thoughts (citta) arise, one must “catch them ASAP” and stop them.
The last section on dhamma explains the core teachings that explain how “samphassa-ja-vedana” arise and how one gets into trouble by attaching to them and making foolish decisions, thereby extending future suffering.
B). C). Yes. Nice.
D) “‘Atthi vedanā’ti vā panassa sati paccupaṭṭhitā hoti yāvadeva ñāṇamattāya paṭissatimattāya anissito ca viharati, na ca kiñci loke upādiyati.”
– That is what both you and I described above.
– When one understands the true nature of this world (yāvadeva ñāṇamattāya paṭissatimattāya,) one will live without getting attached to worldly things (anissito ca viharati, where “anissita” means realizing the unfruitfulness of worldly things). The phrase, “ca kiñci loke upādiyati” means similar to the latter: “not to upadana things in this world.”3.) “My understanding of Cittanupassana is the practice where one should be mindful of the vaci saṅkhāra before they have a chance to develop into speech and kaya saṅkhāra” and the rest.
– That is exactly right!B) The list of things in the “3. Cittānupassanā” section (see, “Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta (DN 22)” are the types of citta to be avoided with wisdom. Those start with “Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu sarāgaṁ vā cittaṁ ‘sarāgaṁ cittan’ti pajānāti.” or “one understands, these are greedy citta.” The next one is to see the non-greedy thoughts (and to cultivate them), i.e., “Vītarāgaṁ vā cittaṁ ‘vītarāgaṁ cittan’ti pajānāti.”
– “Saṅkhitta citta” are “foolish,” and “Vikkhitta citta” are “scattered/excited.” This is the only pair that is not opposite of each other.
– “Mahaggata citta” are those that transcend kama loka, i.e., sensual pleasures. They can be jhana or the cultivation of Nibbana (transcending jhana as well). “Amahaggata citta” are sensual thoughts.
– So, for most of the pairs of cittas listed, one type is to be discarded and the opposite to be cultivated.C) As explained above, “Mahaggata citta” may be cultivating jhana or progress toward Nibbana.
As one cultivates the Noble Path, jhanas may be attained on the way.D) Yes.
4.
A) Yes. That is correct.B) “Samudayadhammānupassī vā cittasmiṁ viharati, vayadhammānupassī vā cittasmiṁ viharati, samudayavayadhammānupassī vā cittasmiṁ viharati.”
– This is mainly about how various types of “bad citta” (described under #3) arise (samudaya) and how they can stopped from arising (vaya). For example, suppose a greedy thought arises. Then one should contemplate how it arose via Paticca Samuppada (with attachment to a “mind-pleasing rupa.”)
C) “‘Atthi cittan’ti vā panassa sati paccupaṭṭhitā hoti yāvadeva ñāṇamattāya paṭissatimattāya anissito ca viharati, na ca kiñci loke upādiyati.”
– It says that when one cultivates cittanupassana, one’s wisdom will grow, and one will gradually lose attachments to this world (i.e., move toward Nibbana.)1 user thanked author for this post.
After reading the above post of dosakkhayo, it seems to me that he has two unresolved issues:
1. The difference between amoha and paññā, which I briefly explained in the thread, “hetu the six roots.”
– That topic was discussed previously too: “post on Kusala-Mula Paṭicca Samuppāda”2. How the “comprehension of the Four Noble Truths” (i.e., the level of paññā attained) at a magga phala “carries over to subsequent rebirths.” In other words, how can one not lose that attainment when dying in this life and being reborn?
– From dosakkhayo’s following comment above, it seems that he thinks that “newfound understanding” must become a memory to be carried over to the next life:
“Without punna iddhi or cultivate jhana and iddhi, one cannot access the previous memory.”
– It is not a matter of being able to recall what one has learned. That knowledge/understanding stays with the seat of the mind (hadaya vatthu) and is transferred to the next hadaya vatthu when grasping a new bhava. When Samsaric bonds (samyojana) are broken, they never “come back.” There is no need to “consciously think” about it.@dosakkhayo: Before I go any further, were those the unresolved issues? Do the above explanations help? Do they need further clarification?
– What do you mean by ” inseparable group” in the last three questions? I am not sure what that means. May be you can give the Pali word for it.dosakkhayo wrote: “The reason why I asked the question is I had been confused by there is no amoha cetasika.”
OK. I understand the issue that you trying to resolve.
It is the paññā cetasika that “represents” amoha. But paññā would be absent until one becomes a Sotapanna Anugami by starting to comprehend Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana.
– That is also why avijjā is defined as “not understanding the Four Noble Truths.” See “Avijjā Sutta (SN 56.17).”: “Yaṁ kho, bhikkhu, dukkhe aññāṇaṁ, dukkhasamudaye aññāṇaṁ, dukkhanirodhe aññāṇaṁ, dukkhanirodhagāminiyā paṭipadāya aññāṇaṁ—
ayaṁ vuccati, bhikkhu, avijjā;.”
– Thus, until avijjā starts fading one would ONLY have “mundane amoha” instead of paññā.I will make an expanded explanation in the other thread “What is the knowing which Sotapanna cannot lose even beyond death?”
– I think you raised the same question in a different way there.
– Let me think about how best to explain the issue there.I have been trying to respond to your original comment:
“Where the 6 primary causes lobha, dosa, moha, alobha, adosa, amoha belong to?
the six dhatu? pathavi, apo, tejo, vayo, akasa, vinnana?
or elsewhere?”That comment did not make any sense.
What is the issue that you are trying to get at?
– I don’t know the conversation at the Korean Puredhamma site because I cannot read Korean.
– If you want to ask me a question, just ask that question.Thank you, LayDhammaFollower!
P.S. It is a good practice to use the following guidelines to insert a link to a comment:
3. In particular, it is good to use the “link” button to provide a link to another post or even external links. In order to describe the procedure, let us assume that you want to provide a link to the “Abhidhamma – Introduction” post at the website.
– Open that post in a separate window.
– Copy the title of the post (Abhidhamma – Introduction) and paste in the text you are writing.
Select that text with the title (Abhidhamma – Introduction) and click the “link” button. It will open a new window to put in the web address.
– Go to that other open window with the “Abhidhamma – Introduction” post and copy the web address from that web page (which in this case is https://puredhamma.net/abhidhamma/abhidhamma-introduction/”).
– Come back and paste that to provide the link at the URL input.
– You can also check the little box “Open link in a new tab”, so that when someone clicks on the link, it will be opened in a new window.
– Follow the same procedure to provide an external link.
*****
Those instructions are from: “How to Post/Reply to a Forum Question”Of course, just do it as you did if it is not easy to follow the instructions. It is just that the comment will look better, , and also, the link will open in a new tab. That allows the reader to go back and forth between the comment and the link if needed.
I just “fixed” your links per those instructions.
****@ dosakkhayo: Also, see #5 of “Sōtapanna Anugāmi – No More Births in the Apāyās“
