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Yes. Exactly!
You wrote: “Yoniso manasikara should be cultivated..”
I am not sure whether I have explained this in detail, but cultivating yoniso manasikara REQUIRES comprehending Paticca Samuppada, i.e., how various bhava (and jati) arise CORRESPONDING to the types of abhisankhara cultivated.
– Greedy abhisankhara lead to peta (preta) bhava, hateful abhisankhara lead to niraya bhava, etc.It describes the fickle/unstable nature of things in this world.
The sutta compares:
– “rupa” to foam (bubbles that appear in a river and break quickly),
– feeling (vedana) also foam (bubbles that appear when it rains and break quickly),
– perception (sanna) to a mirage, and
– vinnana to the trunk of a banana tree (which has no “hardcore” or essence); one becomes tired at the end.Feel free to ask questions if the translation in the link is not clear.
I am glad to hear that, Jorg.
Let me expand my above answer to clarify a bit more.
There are 24 paccaya in “Paṭṭhāna” in Abhidhamma.
– That is the deepest level of Buddha Dhamma. It describes 24 types of conditions (“paccaya“) in Paticca Samuppada. See “Paṭṭhāna Dhamma – Connection to Cause and Effect (Hetu Phala)”
– I have discussed a few of them in the section “Paṭṭhāna Dhamma”
– Upanisa paccaya is an important one. I will discuss it next when I get some time. It is just that there are so many things that seem urgent!But as I wrote above, one can go a long way without reading about these details.
– I recommend reading the “Indriyabhāvanā Sutta (MN 152)”
– It describes Anapanasati/Satipatthana in simple terms. All one needs to do is to “mindfully protect one’s sensory faculties” by not yielding to temptations. That is not an easy task. But it becomes easier when one comprehends the “anicca nature” (unfruitful/dangerous nature) of sensory attractions.By the way, this thread has become too long.
It takes time to scroll down here!
– May be the next person wishing to continue the discussion should start a new thread, “Goenka’s Vipassana – Part 2”
– After starting that thread, I can make a link from here to the next thread.Jorg wrote: “I accidentally came across another passage that aims to justify the practice of observing sensations.”
1. Observing sensations for the sake of observing is of no value.
– One needs to be mindful of WHY a certain sensation comes in.
– For example, if a sukha vedana comes in (say due to seeing a beautiful woman), one needs to contemplate the anicca nature of getting attached to that person.
– Do they explain how “observing sensations” lead to dispelling defilements? or to lead to the Sotapanna stage?2. That is not what these meditation programs try to teach you.
– Rather, they focus on bodily sensations arising WHILE IN A MEDITATION RETREAT.
– Such sensations are MOSTLY bodily sensations! One cannot get to Nibbana by monitoring them!3. As I have tried to explain many times, meditation MUST BE done at all times. That means being mindful and STOPPING getting attached to various enticing arammana!
– Of course, arammana that makes one angry must be dispelled too.
– Furthermore, one must learn Dhamma, so one will not be uncertain (vicikicca) about some arammana too.4. Regarding those Plai verses:
“1. Kāyikaṃ sukhaṃ kāyikassa sukhassa, kāyikassa dukkhassa, phalasamāpattiyā upanissaya paccayena paccayo.”Those people have no idea about the upanisa paccaya in Abhidhamma.
– Before I explain the meaning of that verse, I need to explain the upanisa paccaya.
– There is no need to go that far right now.I advise first reading the posts on this subject under “Anapanasati” and “Satipatthana.”
For example, “Mahā Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta”
– It is a waste of time to translate deep Pali verses. A mere word-by-word translation is meaningless. I will have to write several posts to explain the message conveyed in those verses fully.The following post is from Jorg:
Thank you Lal!
I accidentally came across another passage that aims to justify the practice of observing sensations. It’s actually mentioned right after the already discussed key phrase Vedanāsamosaraṇā sabbe dhammā in the section called: “Vedanā in the Practice of Satipaṭṭhāna”I’ll provide the context including the key pali phrases below.
I would be interested in knowing the meaning of those Pali verses.“In all references to vedanā in the Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta the Buddha speaks of sukhā vedanā, dukkhā vedanā, i.e., the body sensations; or adukkhamasukhā vedanā, which in this context also clearly denotes neutral body sensations.
The strong emphasis is on body sensations because they work as a direct avenue for the attainment of fruition (nibbāna) by means of “strong dependence condition” (upanissaya-paccayena paccayo), i.e., the nearest dependent condition for our liberation. This fact is succinctly highlighted in the Paṭṭhāna, the seventh text of Abhidhamma Piṭaka under the Pakatūpanissaya, where it is stated:
1. Kāyikaṃ sukhaṃ kāyikassa sukhassa, kāyikassa dukkhassa, phalasamāpattiyā upanissayapaccayena paccayo.
2. Kāyikaṃ dukkhaṃ kāyikassa sukhassa, kāyikassa dukkhassa, phalasamāpattiyā upanissayapaccayena paccayo.
3. Utu kāyikassa sukhassa, kāyikassa dukkhassa, phalasamāpattiyā upanissayapaccayena paccayo.
4. Bhojanaṃ kāyikassa sukhassa, kāyikassa dukkhassa, phalasamāpattiyā upanissayapaccayena paccayo.
5. Senāsanaṃ kāyikassa sukhassa, kāyikassa dukkhassa, phalasamāpattiyā upanissayapaccayena paccayo.1. Pleasant body sensation is related to pleasant sensation of the body, unpleasant sensation of the body, and attainment of fruition (nibbāna) by strong dependence condition.
2. Unpleasant body sensation is related to pleasant sensation of the body, unpleasant sensation of the body, and attainment of fruition by strong dependence condition.
3. The season (or surrounding environment) is related to pleasant sensation of the body, unpleasant sensation of the body, and attainment of fruition by strong dependence condition.
4. Food is related to pleasant sensation of the body, unpleasant sensation of the body, and attainment of fruition by strong dependence condition.
5. Lying down and sitting (i.e., the mattress and cushions, or the position of lying, sitting, etc.) is related to pleasant sensation of the body, unpleasant sensation of the body, and attainment of fruition by strong dependence condition.From the above statement it is clear how important vedanā, sensation, is on the path of liberation. The pleasant and unpleasant body sensations, the surrounding environment (utu), the food we eat (bhojanaṃ), and the sleeping and sitting position, the mattress or cushions used, etc. (senāsanaṃ) are all responsible for ongoing body sensations of one type or another. When the sensations are experienced properly, as the Buddha explained in Mahāsatipaṭṭhāna Sutta, these become the nearest dependent condition for our liberation.
There are four dimensions to our nature: the body and its sensations, and the mind and its contents. These provide four avenues for the establishing of awareness in satipaṭṭhāna. In order that the observation be complete, we must experience every facet, which we can only do by means of vedanā. This exploration of truth will remove the delusions we have about ourselves.
In the same way, to come out of the delusion about the world outside, we must explore how the outside world interacts with our own mind-and-matter phenomenon, our own self. The outside world comes in contact with the individual only at the six sense doors: the eye, ear, nose, tongue, body and mind. Since all these sense doors are contained in the body, every contact of the outside world is at the body level.”
Great. I am glad to hear that.
I received the drawing that you sent to my email. But it could take a day or two to go over it.
The website started slowing down recently, and it became a bit worse this morning. We are working with the Web Hosting company to resolve the issue. They have made some temporary adjustments, which should give us some time.
So, I hope to post your drawing after getting this issue resolved.
“The question remains, why those two extra categories of dukkha (dukkha dukkha, viparinama dukkha)?”
I am not sure why you say that because “dukkha” can mean either “actual suffering” or the “causes for suffering,” as I explained above.
– Dukkha dukkha and viparinama dukkha are in the first category.
– Sankhara dukkha is included in both categories.“The world is made by sankhara/sankata of uncountable beings, thus a single being will experience bad vipaka based on the result of all sankhara (which we call “planet earth”).”
Each one reaps the fruits of their kamma, especially regarding rebirths.
– Of course, the world is made due to the “collective kamma” of all beings.
– Also, there can be some “unaccounted suffering” due to things like floods, earthquakes, etc. But those also arise BECAUSE one is born into that existence.
– But rebirths are ALWAYS due to one’s kamma.“The reason why I asked is that there are rūpa(hadaya vatthu) in arūpa realm. So arūpa dhātu is not same the arūpa loka.”
Yes. There are rūpa (hadaya vatthu of the Brahmas) in Arupa loka.
Arūpa dhātu are rupa below the suddhāṭṭhaka stage, i.e., those are kammic energies or dhammā.
That is an important point. See “What are Rūpa? – Dhammā are Rūpa too!”So, the sutta in question, “Dhātu Sutta (Iti 51)” states a highly condensed idea/explanation.
– All “tangible rupa” in this world can be put under rūpa dhātu.
– They all arise due to arūpa dhātu (or kamma bija or dhammā)Stopping the arising of arūpa dhātu (or kamma bija or dhammā) will stop the arising of rūpa dhātu and will lead to nirodha dhātu or Nibbana!
OK. As long as you understand that kama guna and attachments are two different things.
As I said, an Arahant does not lose the “sweetness of sugar” upon attaining Arahanthood.
– But, he does lose any attachment to the taste of sugar.This issue could be a problem with exchanging ideas with words.
For example, you asked: “How can Arhant recognise it as beautiful?”
– You may be implying that the Arahant would not be attracted to a beautiful woman. If so, that is right.
– But just like the issue of sugar, Arahant would see the difference between a “beautiful woman” and a “not so beautiful woman” per kama guna.
– Attachment is different from “natural perception” due to kama guna.“However, Recently during contemplate it occured to me, that kama guna, vipakā vēdanā and samphassa-jā-vēdanā all three are PURELY SUBJECTIVE AND CONDITIONAL right?”
No. That is not right.
– “Kama guna” go with each bhava. Something that may appear enticing to a dog could be disgusting to us (e.g., feces).
– “Vipaka vedana” may APPEAR as good (attractive) or bad (repulsive) depending on the kama guna. For example, the grass is appealing to cows, but not to us.
– samphassa-jā-vēdanā is PURELY SUBJECTIVE AND CONDITIONAL.You wrote: “You said somewhere that even Arhant might “recognise” beautiful women as beautiful women.”
“Kama guna” and “attaching to kama guna” are two different things.
– An Arahant would see a beautiful woman as a beautiful woman just as they would taste sugar to be sweet or feces to be stinky. But they would not be attracted to that woman or sugar or repulsed by feces.You may want to read some of the following posts:
“Search Results for: kama guna“In Buddha Dhamma, “dukkha” is not just “suffering.” It can be “suffering” or “cause for suffering,” depending on the context.
– In fact, the First Noble Truth is about “causes of suffering.” That is sankhara arising due to avijja!We can look at it this way.
– sankhara dukkha can be in both categories.
– Dukkha dukkha and viparinama dukkha fall under “suffering” or “vipaka.”Let me give a brief outline.
1. Everything in this world is included in the six dhatu (basic elements) of pathavi, āpo, tejo, vāyo, ākāsa, and viññāṇa.
2. The first sutta above says that all suffering in this world arises from the six dhatu.
– Hint: They arise at the patisandhi moment of grasping a new bhava.3. The third sutta says they all have the anicca nature (i.e., created due to causes and destroyed when those causes wear away). That is because that “creation/arising” happens via Paticca Samuppada. All bhava and jati end up in death.
4. The second sutta states the “elements” responsible for that Paticca Samuppada process: “The elements of sensuality, malice, and cruelty.”
5. The fourth sutta states how (abhi)saṅkhāra in “avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra” in PS arise due to attachments to (things in this world) based on the six dhatu (pathavi, āpo, tejo, vāyo, ākāsa, and viññāṇa.)
– Such attachments defile a mind (“cetaso upakkileso“) and lead to “avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra”. Here “upakkilesa” means “pulling close kilesa to mind.”
– We discussed kilesa in the recent post, “Kilesa – Relationship to Akusala, Kusala, and Puñña Kamma”6. The final sutta says when one understands the above, one comprehends “Rūpa dhātu, arūpa dhātu, nirodha dhātu.”
– That will lead the stopping of rūpadhātu and arūpadhātu from arising and lead to the “ultimate element” of Nibbana or nirodha dhātu.Yes. Saṅkhāra-dukkha may arise in both ways.
– For example, one must make an effort when trying to possess something. Then, depending on what types of kamma were done, those actions will bring vipaka later.
– All three types of dukkha arise via “avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra.”One type of dukkha-dukkha (physical suffering) is vipaka.
– The other type of mental suffering, “domanassa vedana,” may arise due to the above vipaka vedana. That is absent in an Arahant, even though the first would still be there.Sutta Central translation there is:
“Liking, disliking, and both liking and disliking have come up in me.”That is good. I may state it as:
“Liking, disliking, and both liking and disliking may arise in me.”That happens when an arammana comes in through one of the six sensory inputs.
– “both liking and disliking may arise in me” seems a bit confusing.
– That is possibly the case when one is uncertain whether that arammana is good or bad.All three possibilities arise when one is “unaware of the real nature” (na pajānāti) of such arammana.
A Noble person would know with wisdom (pajānāti) how such arammana arise via Paticca Samuppada and thus, would not be swayed by them.
I have made significant revisions to the post “The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka”
I will look at the other posts that I referenced above. If I revise any of them, I will mention that here.
P.S. Revised: “Bhūta and Yathābhūta – What Do They Really Mean“
