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I hope you get better soon, Jorg!
The “Dovacassatā Sutta (AN 6.115)” is a short sutta. The English translation there is misleading.
In many cases, this and other modern translators provide the mundane meaning because they do not know the deeper meanings.
“Dovacassatā” and “pāpamittatā” essentially refer to asappurisa.
- “sovacassatā” and “kalyāṇamittatā” refer to sappurisa.
- As we know, sappurisa are Ariya (Noble Persons). See #7 of “Dhamma – Different Meanings Depending on the Context .”
I linked above to the verse “Dovacassatāya pahānāya sovacassatā bhāvetabbā, pāpamittatāya pahānāya kalyāṇamittatā bhāvetabbā, cetaso vikkhepassa pahānāya ānāpānassati bhāvetabbā.”
That verse is translated with the mundane meaning in the above link: “You should develop being easy to admonish to give up being hard to admonish, good friendship to give up bad friendship, and mindfulness of breathing to give up a distracted mind.”
It should be translated as: “You should associate with those who speak the correct Dhamma, not those who speak adhamma, a Noble Person and not an immoral person, and practice ānāpānassati to remove confusion/distracted-ness of the mind to get to samādhi“
Mindfulness of breathing CAN BE give up a distracted mind temporarily. It WILL NOT help remove any anusaya/bad gati!
- In the same way, “good friends” that one associates to have a good time, are, in most cases, asappurisa.
We can elaborate on the descriptions a bit more.
1. Bhava – refers to different types of existences in this world of 31 realms.
- Vipatti means “encounter bad experiences,” and sampatti is the opposite of that, i.e., good experiences.
2. Sambhava (“san” + “bhava“) refers to how those existence result (via Paticca Samuppada) due to different types of “san“.
- Worst “accumulations” or “san” have “lobha, dosa, moha as roots,” i.e., via apunna abhisankhara.
- “Good” existences result via punna abhisankhara and anenja abhisankhara. But they also do not end suffering.
3. End of suffering can result only by following the Noble Path based on “bhava uddha Dhamma” or Buddha Dhamma or Paticca Samuppada.
- That is possible MOSTLY while born in the human realm. The key factor associated with the human realm is to be born with a brain.
- As we have seen, the brain “slows down” our responses to external stimuli. That gives us a time window to be mindful and stop the progression of various abhisankhara. Thus, one cannot cultivate the path while in the human gandhabba state. A physical human body (with a brain) is NECESSARY.
- That is why we must be grateful to our parents for allowing us to be born with a physical body.
That is a crucial point requiring some thought.
4. In all other realms, citta flow is fast and uncontrollable. Mano sankhara turn into vaci sankhara and then kaya sankhara VERY QUICKLY. Thus, one’s responses are according to the gati one is born with.
- Such gati are cultivated in the human realm (while born with a physical human body.)
- Then one is born in either an apaya (with dugati) or a “good realm” with sugati or good gati.“
5. While in the human realm, one cultivates both good and bad gati.
- Then one spends time in those realms until those kammic energies are spent. During those existences in other realms, they do not accumulate gati (at least to any significant extent.)
- As discussed in the Agganna Sutta, at the beginning of a “newly-formed Earth,” most sentient beings (below the Abhassara Brahma realm) are humans.
- Then they branch out into other realms.
That is a summary.
Namo0804 wrote: “Of course, there are exceptions like born in asanna realm(500 maha kappa), but it is a very small bit.
To compare sansara to a workplace, we have never retired from a job, just went on vacation rarely.”
Yes. Good insights.
- Vacations (like births in human and higher realms) are rare and short-lived.
- Most time is spent in the four lowest realms (apayas).
- That holds for any sentient being who has not attained at least the Sotapanna Anugami stage (that includes all humans, Devas, and Brahmas).
pariyesanā – to investigate, analyze possibilities
pariggaho – to grab firmly, like an octopus grabbing with all eight feet
ārakkho – trying to keep for oneself; that is done with chandaraga and macchariya with the expectation of lābha.
In other words, you got close enough.
The following dictionary is useful (it still has some wrong translations too):
“Concise Pali-English Dictionary –A.P. Buddhadatta Mahathera“
Tanha and avijja go together. Both are wholly removed only at the Arahant stage.
- Vibhava tanha is the worst, the assumption of no rebirths. Then one would not be afraid of doing any immoral deed. That goes away at the Sotapanna stage.
- The strongest part of kama tanha is associated with kama raga and goes away at the Anagami stage.
- Bhava tanha is to “wish for” specific existences/titles/etc. The strongest component of an “unchanging soul” goes away at the Sotapanna stage. Cultivation of anariya jhana is included in bhava tanha.
“Kāma Tanhā, Bhava Tanhā, Vibhava Tanhā“
P.S. Yes the second post in #1 in my first comment is: “Icchā (Cravings) Lead to Upādāna and to Eventual Suffering“
Here is a recent video that corroborates my initial impressions about ChatGPT when it was first announced.
- It is a good resource, but it is not intelligence. It has the unique ability to scan and preserve a lot of information and then converse like a human based on the information it was trained on.
- Apparently, it can write complex computer programs too. That may put some programmers out of business.
- However, genuine intelligence is the ability to develop original concepts, like E = mc^2 . My prediction is that it will never be able to do that.
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Yes. You bring up an excellent point.
1. Most people just know the steps in PS. They have no idea what each step means. One can write a book on each step, especially for the “tanha paccaya upadana” step. That is where we get attached to an arammana and start accumulating kamma.
- This is when we start generating abhisankhara with “avijja paccaya sankhara” and initiate numerous PS cycles going round and round.
- This sutta explains that step in a bit more detail.
- I have discussed that in “Taṇhā Paccayā Upādāna – Critical Step in Paṭicca Samuppāda” and “Difference Between Tanhā and Upādāna.” I may have used different terms, but the idea is the same.
- Another relevant point is the importance of vaci sankhara, which is two-fold: (i) we first start thinking how to respond to an arammana, (ii) if our feelings get energized, we will start talking about it/asking about it, etc.
2. The following verses, starting with the verse you quoted, explain that:
“9.1Iti kho panetaṁ, ānanda, vedanaṁ paṭicca taṇhā, taṇhaṁ paṭicca pariyesanā, pariyesanaṁ paṭicca lābho, lābhaṁ paṭicca vinicchayo, vinicchayaṁ paṭicca chandarāgo, chandarāgaṁ paṭicca ajjhosānaṁ, ajjhosānaṁ paṭicca pariggaho, pariggahaṁ paṭicca macchariyaṁ, macchariyaṁ paṭicca ārakkho. 9.2Ārakkhādhikaraṇaṁ daṇḍādānasatthādānakalahaviggahavivādatuvaṁtuvaṁpesuññamusāvādā aneke pāpakā akusalā dhammā sambhavanti.
10.1‘Ārakkhādhikaraṇaṁ daṇḍādānasatthādānakalahaviggahavivādatuvaṁtuvaṁpesuññamusāvādā aneke pāpakā akusalā dhammā sambhavantī’ti iti kho panetaṁ vuttaṁ, tadānanda, imināpetaṁ pariyāyena veditabbaṁ, yathā ārakkhādhikaraṇaṁ daṇḍādānasatthādānakalahaviggahavivādatuvaṁtuvaṁpesuññamusāvādā aneke pāpakā akusalā dhammā sambhavanti. 10.2Ārakkho ca hi, ānanda, nābhavissa sabbena sabbaṁ sabbathā sabbaṁ kassaci kimhici, sabbaso ārakkhe asati ārakkhanirodhā api nu kho daṇḍādānasatthādānakalahaviggahavivādatuvaṁtuvaṁpesuññamusāvādā aneke pāpakā akusalā dhammā sambhaveyyun”ti?
3. The English translation there gives some idea. But those verses need to be explained in one’s own words.
“ajjhosānaṁ” means “really getting trapped in that arammana,” thinking, “should I do this or that? How can I get this for myself without others grabbing it?” , etc.
- This is also represented by vitakka/vicara. See “Vitakka, Vicāra, Savitakka, Savicāra, and Avitakka, Avicāra.”
Feel free to ask further questions after reading those posts.
The second reference is better, and gives the basic idea:
“Lokoti—khandhaloko, dhātuloko, āyatanaloko, vipattibhavaloko, vipattisambhavaloko, sampattibhavaloko, sampattisambhavaloko.”
It identifies several ways the Buddha characterized “the world of 31 realms.”
khandhaloko – five aggregates
dhātuloko – six dhātus (pathavi, āpo, tejo, vāyo, ākasa, vinnāna)
āyatanaloko – 12 āyatana (six internal, six external)
P.S. (one hour later) I revised the following:
vipattibhavaloko – the four lowest realms (apāya) arising due to bad kamma vipāka (vipatti)
vipattisambhavaloko – realms where apāyagāmi deeds are done (mostly the human realm)
sampattibhavaloko – the higher 27 realms (sugati) arising due to good kamma vipāka (sampatti)
sampattisambhavaloko –realms where sugatigāmi deeds are done (mostly the human realm)
Thank you for taking the time to use the correct formatting. It helps me and also others to point the link to
the verse in question.
- It is easy to do: The following is the link with markers (with Pali and English side-by-side) for SN 22.21:
- “Ānanda Sutta (SN 22.21)“
- Once you find the sutta number (say, MN 1), replace “sn22.21” in that link with “mn1,” and you will get the sutta reference for MN 1.
- Make sure to use lowercase and no gap in between (sn22.5, mn1, etc.).
- Then click on the marker you need to point to (suppose we want to show verse 1.14) in the above link. Then you will get the correct link: “Ānanda Sutta (SN 22.21)“
- Please keep the above link saved as a bookmark so you can use it in the future.
P.S. I see that the formatting option to “open the link in a new tab” is not there. I will see if I can fix that.
Yes. Thank you! I have revised it as follows:
“For example, the concept of anicca is understood gradually—from the Sotapanna Anugāmi stage to the Sotāpanna stage. A Sotapanna fully comprehends the anicca nature and the anatta nature. The next step is to comprehend dukkha and asubha nature fully. See, “Vipallāsa (Diṭṭhi, Saññā, Citta) Affect Saṅkhāra.”
Another related video is below. Is there a coverup? There is a Buddha statue too!
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Jorg asked: “However, why use this specific term vikkhepa?”
Why not? Vikkhepa DOES mean “confusion.”Jorg: “Another reason is that one might still interpret anapanassati as mindfulness of breathing if one takes vikkhepa as “distracted,” so I was looking for some details from that perspective as well.”
– One is distracted if confused.
– The main problem is that people are trying very hard to justify their addiction to “breath meditation.” Once, a moderator at Dhamma Wheel became upset with me. He wrote something like, “I have practiced breath meditation for 30 years. How can you tell me it does not work?”
– It is possible to be on the wrong path for billions of years, not just a mere 30 years! Until one learns the Ānāpānasati taught by a Buddha, one will never be able to know what it is and practice it.
– Of course, one can get “peace of mind” by practicing breath meditation or other mundane kasina meditations. That can lead to anariya jhana and even abhinna powers if one stays away from sensual pleasures. Devadatta did precisely that and attained abhinna powers. But he ended up in an apaya.Please read the post, “Ānāpānasati – Overview” carefully and let me know if there is ANY wiggle room to justify Ānāpānasati as “breath meditation.”
– I just revised that post a bit more.
– I would be happy to discuss that post with anyone anywhere. That is the only way to settle this issue once and for all.Achieving “big things” depends on one’s state of mind.
– The state of mind of a Noble Person is different from that of an average human.
– “Big things” for an average person is to achieve “worldly things” like wealth and physical beauty.
– But “big things” for an Ariya are the stages of magga phala.For example, ‘Alexander the Great” is hailed a hero among average humans. He won many battles and conquered many countries.
But he attained nothing of value in the end because he died without making any spiritual progress. Because of the countless lives he destroyed, he is probably born in a lower realm.
– On the other hand, our Bodhisatta gave up his princely life and attained Buddhahood.However, one should not go to extremes either in interpreting the above.
– For example, one must take care of one’s physical body by exercising regularly and eating well. That helps avoid getting sick and also maintains a healthy brain. Those are important to be able to follow the Noble Path and get to magga phala.1 user thanked author for this post.
“Before the mentioning of “junior mendicants realized a higher distinction than they had before. Did these “junior mendicants” also include non-ariya’s ?”
All the bhikkhus there were at or above the Sotapanna stage.
– I have revised your link to show “tabs” or “markers” and the sutta opens at your first verse.
– At marker 8.1 the Buddha specifically states that the assembly of bhikkhus are all Ariyas. (Translated there as “it’s free of nonsense.”)
– Starting at marker 9.1, the Buddha states that even more specifically. Some are Arahants (at 9.1); some are Anagamis (at 10.1) and so on.I think that answers your second question as well.
Ānāpānasati can lead to Arahanthood (Nibbana) only if the practitioner has understood that remaining in the rebirth process is dangerous. Then one must CULTIVATE the Nobel Path that one has “SEEN” to get to Arahanthood.
– One SEES the Path with Lokuttara Samma Ditthi at the Sotapanna stage. Then one can follow that path by the practice of Ānāpānasati.
– P.P.S. At the marker 28.1, the Buddha stated that fulfilling Ānāpānasati will fulfil the four stages of Satipaṭṭhāna: “Ānāpānassati Sutta”However, non-Ariya can do the “mundane version” of Ānāpānasati, and complete the mundane path so that they can comprehend the Noble Truths/PS/Tilakkhana.
P.S. The “mundane version” of Ānāpānasati includes, of course, the following: Taking in good morals and cultivating “good gati“, discarding bad gati, learning (taking in) correct teachings of the Buddha, discarding wrong views by contemplating those teachings and related material (like rebirth accounts, Out-Of-Body experiences, Near- Death Experiences), etc.
I am afraid I cannot help. If I can find a contact for Abhaya Thero, I will email you at the address I have for you (forum registration.)
Some cases like this could be “not real” in the sense it is “made up” by the person’s mind, even though the person may truly believe it to be true.
– Of course, I don’t know enough to say about your mother’s situation. I am not an expert on these issues.“what I meant by the black magic person is the one who is sending the preta.”
I think you may have the wrong picture.
– But let me get the facts straight first. Are there two persons/beings involved in “possessing” your mother?1. One is your mother’s sister’s husband, and the other is a “preta”?
2. Is your mother’s sister’s husband still alive? If so, does he have the power to send a “preta” to your mother? How?I reread the thread to get an idea of the problem. The following are my observations.
1. Your suspicions about the “black magic person” may be correct. I have heard of such instances in Sri Lanka. Abhaya Thero could be helpful if you could contact him. I will see if any of my contacts know how to contact him. He used to investigate such cases in Sri Lanka before becoming a bhikkhu. The following is one of his several videos on youtube.
2. Normally, such a “black magic person” can be attracted to a particular person, a place that he/she liked, or a combination of such factors. They cannot exert influence on people with strong willpower. It is possible that either she is the only “target” or the one with the least willpower among you.
– Does she practice Buddha Dhamma? If one is fully engaged in following Buddha Dhamma, it is less likely that such “black magic persons” can influence that person. Just reciting suttas is not enough. But combining those two will have a stronger effect.
– If you or an exorcist can talk to the “black magic person,” you can ask what it wants. Sometimes their wish can be fulfilled by making an offering to Bhikkhus, as I have seen in some videos by Abhaya Thero. In those videos (as in the above video), Abhaya Thero talked to the “black magic person” through the patient (i.e., your mother in this case.) When the patient is “possessed” by the “black magic person,” the words are that of the “black magic person.”
– By the way, to “take possession” of a patient’s body, either the patient must be willing, or the patient does not have enough willpower to resist.3. Moving to a new house may or may not help. Since the “black magic person” came to the relative’s wedding, she seems to be followed, and the attraction is mostly to her, not the house. But I am not sure. It may help.
