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Here is another evidence that highly-advanced machining techniques existed over 5000 years ago. There is no way to carbon-date these granite specimens. They COULD BE hundreds of thousands of years old.
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To understand the background, one needs to read the chapter from the beginning (there is an English translation).
It describes the events following the Parinibbana of the Buddha and preparations for the first Buddhist Council.
Then starting at marker 1.16.18 (close to where TGS tagged) it says:
“Upāliṁ vinayaṁ pucchi, suttantānandapaṇḍitaṁ; Piṭakaṁ tīṇi saṅgītiṁ, akaṁsu jinasāvakā.”
That is a highly condensed saying, “Ven. Upali recited the Vinaya Pitaka, Ven. Ananda recited the Sutta Pitaka, and all gathered Arahants recited all three Pitaka (including the Abhidhamma Pitaka, which was only partially finished at that time.)”
TGS is asking about the next verse: “Khuddānukhuddake nānā, yathāpaññattivattanā; Na pucchi akkamitvāna, vandāpesi na yāci ca.”
Here “nānā” means “various,” and NOT a “ñāṇa.”
That verse says that subsequently, they discussed various primary and secondary Vinaya rules (Khuddānukhuddake nānā), etc., related to the above recitals.
Your formatting issue can be handled in the following way:
1. If you want to “bold” or ‘italicize” a sentence, first write the sentence. Then drag the cursor across it to select the sentence and click “bold (B)” or “italicize (I)” in the Toolbar.
2. If you want to provide a link to a post, first open that post in a different tab. Copy the title and then paste it into your comment. Select that title like above, and click on the “chain link symbol” (10th item in the Toolbar). That will open a “small window.” Go back to the other tab and copy the web address. Come back and paste it in the first box in the “small window.” Also, don’t forget to click the downward arrow in the “Target” box at the bottom of that “small window” and select “New Window.” Then click “OK” to close that “small window.”
- That last action will open the link in a new tab when someone clicks on it. That is helpful for the reader since they can go back and forth between your comment and the post you linked.
- The one next to the “chain link symbol” is to “undo link.” After writing the comment, if you realize that you put in the wrong link (or that you forgot to change the “Target” box), you can open the comment, select the link and click the “undo link.” Then you can re-do the linking process.
3. P.S. When you copy a title of a post and paste it, it may appear in big letters corresponding to a “heading” like this:
“Waharaka Thero English Subs Discourse”
- It will say “Heading 1” in the drop-down box in the second formatting row.
- Here, click on that box and select “paragraph,” which will reduce the text’s size. Now you can select that text and add the link.
4. For All: Please feel free to try these out below. Type “TESTING” first and try out any formatting method you like. I can delete them later.
- There are many options available in the Toolbar now. Feel free to test them. It is good to learn them to express yourself better and make things clear to others.
- If you write an incorrect statement, you can select it and then use “scissors” to cut it out, etc.
That is an excellent post, namo0804!
I revised some of your sentences. Please feel free to re-state if my rewording did not capture your ideas sufficiently.
1. You seem desperate to attain jhana. My advice is to ensure you have reached the Sotapanna Anugami stage.
- If you fear getting into a womb again, it would be nothing compared to being born in an apaya. See, “Does the Hell (Niraya) Exist?“
2. I have explained in several posts that those with anariya jhana WILL return to the human realm and subsequently to lower realms.
- On the other hand, one must be an Anagami to attain the FIRST Ariya jhana since kama raga is eliminated even in the first Ariya jhana.
- But if even a Sotapanna Anugami attains an anariya jhana, they will not return to the kama loka. I think that is what you are after. But, here, you need to make sure that you have reached the Sotapanna Anugami stage. I am not saying you have not. I have no way of determining anyone else has reached ANY magga phala or jhana.
3. Anariya jhana: Getting into a jhana and staying in a jhana are two different things.
- Some people could get into an anariya jhana and stay in it without effort. They had cultivated them likely in previous births in THIS human bhava. As I have explained, human bhava can last many thousands of years, and within that time, one will be born with a human body many times.
- Some others may get to jhana by going through the gotrabu stage but may not have CULTIVATED that jhana. They may not even know that they have jhana.
- For a human, getting to the first jhana means temporarily transcending the human (and kama loka). Initially, that is only for a couple of thought moments (citta). Then the mind “gets back” to the kama loka. Only with practice one lengthens the “time in the first jhana.” But the problem is identifying whether one has reached the jhana stage.
- As one lengthens the time in the first jhana, one can start feeling those bodily experiences described in the Samannaphala Sutta. So, this may not be an easy task for someone who has not cultivated jhana in previous lives.
4. I don’t know whether I have reached anariya jhana, and I don’t care either. I don’t spend any time on that. I experience bodily sensations close to that once in a while when I am deeply engaged in Vipassana. I am close to the Anagami stage, which has been my goal.
- An excellent example from the Tipitaka that I often cite is Devadatta. He attained not only all anariya jhana/samapatti but also iddhi powers. But he lost all that and was born in an apaya.
- That is what I mean by “losing an anariya jhana.” It is not permanent in the sense one can lose it if kama raga or patigha becomes strong; they had not removed kama raga anusaya or patigha anusaya. That can happen even at the cuti-patisandhi moment when kammic energy brings an arammana to mind.
- “Āsava, Anusaya, and Gati (Gathi)“
5. The bottom line is the following. It is better to spend time comprehending Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/ Tilakkhana and ensuring that one has reached the Sotapanna Anugamai stage at least. “Paṭicca Samuppāda, Tilakkhana, Four Noble Truths.”
- We all had cultivated ALL jhanas and gotten to the highest arupavacara samapatti INNUMERABLE TIMES in this long Samsara.
- One has to reach a magga phala only once.
- It may be worthwhile cultivating an anariya jhana if one is confident that one has reached at least the Sotapanna Anugami stage. No one else can confirm or deny that. One has to make that decision based on one’s experience.
- The first magga phala that one can have no doubts about is the Anagami stage. No sensory input can perturb one’s mind if one has reached that. So, one can watch any X-rated movie, for example, without getting aroused. That is the ultimate test.
- To get there, one must first “see” the fruitlessness/dangers of remaining in the rebirth process at the Sotapanna Anugami stage; that is, getting to Samma Ditthi. Then one gradually DEVELOPS perceptions (sanna) about that danger and gets to the Anagami stage. That second step involves cultivating the “anicca sanna,” “dukkha sanna,” and “anatta sanna.” That is time better spent than cultivating anariya jhana.
Theruwan Saranayi!
1. Yes. The duration of the jhana does not matter. As long as one has attained a jhana citta vithi, one has transcended the “kama loka.” Thus the yogi will be born in a Brahma realm. However, in the case of an anariya jhana, that is only temporary, meaning the yogi will return to kama loka at the end of that Brahma birth. But if one has ALSO attained at least the Sotapanna Anugami stage, that yogi will not return to kama loka.
2. The duration of the time does not matter, as explained above. P.S. You asked, “how can one would be in jhana(not samapatti) while walking.” One can be in a jhana with even iddhi powers while engaging in physical activities. It is only in a jhana samapatti that one is unaware of the surroundings; see the post referred to at the end. Note that there is an account in the Tipitaka where Culapanathaka Thero made 1000 copies of himself and worked with them at his temple; see “Are There Procedures for Attaining Magga Phala, Jhāna and Abhiññā?“
3. This is where many people come to the wrong conclusions. Jhanic experience is discussed in detail by the Buddha in “Jhānic Experience in Detail – Sāmaññaphala Sutta (DN 2).”
4. Details on vitakka/vicara and savitakka./savicara at “Vitakka, Vicāra, Savitakka, Savicāra, and Avitakka, Avicāra.”
I just revised the post “Citta Vīthi – Processing of Sense Inputs,” where further details can be found.
Thank you!
I revised that sentence as:
- Thus we can see that kāma assāda, saṅkappa rāga, and vaci saṅkhāra mean the same thing. Of course, vaci saṅkhāra may also lead to kāya saṅkhāra.
I have also made some other revisions too.
TGS wrote: “Without going into further details, a Sotapanna would know yoniso manasikara. “
- Yes. This is the same as what I wrote in #2 in my comment above: “That means understanding Paticca Samuppada (PS), which explains how one’s actions/mindset leads to different rebirths.” That is why yoniso manasikara is one of the four conditions for attaining the Sotapanna stage.
- If one can understand the implications, one can start seeing why it is unfruitful/dangerous to seek sensual pleasures. The first step there is to see the dangers of engaging in immoral deeds seeking sensual pleasures, i.e., generating apunna abhisankhara (“avijja paccaya sankhara.“) That is when one starts seeing the anicca nature (and that it leads to dukkha and anatta.)
Dipobhasaddhamma: You seem to be on the Noble Path based on what you wrote. Of course, no one can vouch for anyone else’s attainments.
- Once one gets to the Anagami stage, there will be no doubts because no lustful thoughts can arise regardless of how strong a sensory input (arammana) is.
It is a good question.
The answer depends on the level of understanding of the person. One way to look at it is as follows.
1. There are two paths: mundane and lokuttara (Noble).
- One must complete the mundane eightfold path first. That means getting rid of the ten wrong views (miccha ditthi.) As long as one does not believe in kamma and their vipaka, the validity of the rebirth process, that there are living beings in other realms, etc., one does not have the necessary background to comprehend the Four Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana.
- I keep wondering whether I need to add more posts on completing the mundane path. Relevant posts at “Moral Living and Fundamentals” and “Living Dhamma.”
- P.S. The importance of getting rid of miccha ditthi is discussed in “Micchā Diṭṭhi, Gandhabba, and Sōtapanna Stage.”
2. Once one gets rid of those wrong views, the next step is to be exposed to the correct explanations of our Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana.
- The Noble Truths are about the suffering in the rebirth process, how that suffering arises due to attachment to worldly things (which people perceive as pleasures), and how to overcome that attachment by seeing the dangers of remaining in the rebirth process.
- That means understanding Paticca Samuppada (PS), which explains how one’s actions/mindset leads to different rebirths. In particular, understanding what types of actions (via apunna abhisankhara) lead to births in the apayas.
- Then, simultaneously, one would realize the anicca, dukkha, and anatta nature of this world of 31 realms.
So, yes, a Sotapanna Anugami starts on the Noble Path by getting a glimpse of that “deeper vision.” Once getting to that point, there is no turning back because the more one contemplates the nature of this world, the more one becomes convinced about the futility AND danger of remaining in the rebirth process.
That is one way to look at it. “Paṭicca Samuppāda, Tilakkhana, Four Noble Truths.”
Of course, there are always more details. We can discuss any suggestions.
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1. As I have explained in many posts, Four Noble Truths is the same as Paticca Samuppada. Those encompass Tilakkhana (anicca, dukkha, anatta.) None of those is known in the absence of a Buddha.
- See, for example, “Paṭicca Samuppāda, Tilakkhana, Four Noble Truths.” Of course, the series of discourses (referred to in this thread) discuss that too.
- None of those is known to the world in the absence of a Buddha.
2. It is a waste of time to read any document that translates anicca as impermanence and anatta as no-self.
3. If a Tipitaka reference can be provided for the following statement, we can discuss that: “The characteristics of anicca and dukkha are known whether Buddhas arise or not.” There is no such reference!
- Note the dukkha in the above statement cannot be taken as merely “suffering” either. Suffering is dukha. Since suffering is known to even animals, a Buddha is not needed to show us that “suffering exists.”
- On the other hand, dukkha is “dukha + khaya.” Without a Buddha, we will not know how to overcome that suffering, i.e., the Dukkha Sacca.
The following is the latest in that series, which was just posted to Youtube. Thanks to Janith Fernando for sending it to me.
- Again, if you find anything that needs clarification, please comment and refer to the time in the video. I have not watched either of the videos due to the lack of time. It will be easy to check since both Sinhala, and English versions are there. Thank you, Janith! Much merit for your efforts!
Sometimes “santi” is used to express “there are.”
See, for example, “Suddhika Sutta (SN 31.1)“
TGS: When you provide a link, you should select “new window” in the “target box” in the “insert link” popup. That will open the page in a new tab. I have done that to your link, and now the sutta opens in a new tab in your comment.
- For those who are not sure how to provide a link, click on the “chain link” symbol. When you hover over each formatting symbol, it tells you what it does. For example, “B” is for “bold.”
- One must select the text to be bolded, italicized, etc. When providing a link, select the title of the link and then click the link symbol in the formatting panel.
Select the sentence that you want to be “bold” or “italics,” and then press the “b” or “i” on the format bar. That will solve the formatting issue. I corrected the first “bolded ” sentence in your comment.
Yes. I will try to address those when I have time. A lot can be written on various issues/concepts, but it is a matter of having enough time.
Yes. A sekkha is a Noble Person at or above the Sotapanna Anugami stage, training to be an Arahant (Asekha).
Two suttas explain a sekha:
“Sekkha Sutta (SN 45.13)” and “Sekkha Sutta (AN 3.85).”
The English translations can be improved. For example, the following verse in the second sutta “Adhisīlampi sikkhati, adhicittampi sikkhati, adhipaññampi sikkhati. Sikkhatīti kho, bhikkhu, tasmā sekhoti vuccatīti” can be a bit better translated as:
“They train with Ariyakanta sila (Adhisīla,) they cultivate defilement-free thoughts (dhicitta) with the comprehension of Tilakkhana (adhipañña.) That’s why they are called a ‘trainee’.”
See #4 of “Sotapatti Aṅga – The Four Qualities of a Sotāpanna” for a description of “ariyakanta sila.”
I am compiling evidence (as they come in) for the existence of ancient, highly spiritual, and technologically advanced civilizations.
The reason is that it is inevitable that they existed, according to the Tipitaka. The “Mahāpadāna Sutta (DN 14)” provides a detailed description of the existence of three Buddhas before Buddha Gotama in this maha kappa (meaning this Earth) that was formed about 4.5 billion years ago.
- P.S. The current eon (maha kappa) is known as a “bhaddakappa” (or a fortunate eon) because it will have five Buddhas born before its end. There can be many maha kappas without a single Buddha. As the above sutta states, there were 30 maha kappas before the current one without a single Buddha. There were two Buddhas in the 31 eons before the current one.
Civilizations can end with mass extinctions due to several possible cataclysmic events, such as a comet impact or an enormous earthquake.
- The acquired knowledge and technology can be completely wiped out due to such an event.
- It is not easy to find or verify the existence of such ancient civilizations because of the unimaginable period of even several million years, let alone over four billion years.
- However, there is already enough evidence to see that the currently accepted timeline of human evolution is wrong, which says agriculture was invented only 12,000 years ago: “The Development of Agriculture.”
- That is incorrect since it has now been verified (with carbon dating) that advanced structures were built before that timeline; for example, “Gobekli Tepe: Facts, Discovery, and Location.” The videos posted in my earlier posts above provide more information.
- More evidence will hopefully emerge. The main problem is that metals, when submerged in the Earth, decay and do not last even a million years. So, if a human civilization built rockets many millions ago, there will be no trace of that left. But the evidence for advanced ancient civilizations may appear unexpectedly as our technologies improve and may lead to evidence from yet unimagined ways.
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