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May 11, 2023 at 5:35 am in reply to: Sharing Eng Subtitles of Waharaka Thero’s Tilakkhana desana #44763LayDhammaFollowerParticipant
This is a google drive folder containing some more transcripts (Sinhala and English) side-by-side versions.
Link to the folder with English transcripts of Waharaka thero English translated sermons.
Credits: Janith Boniface Fernando, It also contains one transcript edited by Lal.
p.s. It contains transcripts of some recent videos as well.
LayDhammaFollowerParticipantThank you @Saket for sharing the relevant sutta.
Lal, Can you briefly explain the sutta?
LayDhammaFollowerParticipantThis is the equation of kamma vipaka as I understand it. (Kamma generation of course happen via akusala PS cycle.)
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A (effect) = { B + C + D + E + F } causes
where,
A = vipaka (effect) = resulting music in radio
B = Physical environment = Body = Radio itself = determines range of available frequencies
Deva/Brahma body wouldn’t be able to manifest kamma bīja suitable only for humans or lower realms.
humans would not manifest vipaka of lower realms.
C = Mental environment = Mindset/Bhava = Tuning of radio = determines which station is tuned
Arhants would not kill anyone, even if they might come across someone who had violently killed them. Because, they have eradicated all the bad bhava.
D = Surrounding environment = Kind of beings around us and their mindset = Location of radio = determines what radio stations are in range and what radio stations are not available
If you are in a monastery full of ariya, you will mostly manifest good kamma/merits.
E = kamma bīja/kamma viññāṇa = Various Radio stations broadcasting signals at different frequencies
F = unknown complex variables discernible only to Buddha
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Vipaka in a nutshell, can be compared to resonance (Resonance between the overall environment and previous kamma seeds.)
LayDhammaFollowerParticipantMany people are attached to ideas, concepts and knowledge. So, that is also attachement to dhamma rūpa.
So, there can be taṇhā (attachement to Buddha dhamma for example) and upādāna (keeping dhamma close in mind).
Saḷāyatana might mean using sense faculties for seeking Dhamma and Buddha. One might be deliberately using ears to search for and hear dhamma sermons or might search for dhamma related books through eyes.
I heard the sermon, this is what I understand.
Lal can comment based on sinhala audio and subtitles.
LayDhammaFollowerParticipantI assume you are asking about how non-energised dhamma are converted to energised dhammā in mind and where is RūpakKhanda. If so, This is explanation.
The mystery is in mechanism of recalling memory.
RūpakKhanda is not stored, it is generated as needed from other four aggregates.
When memory is recalled, RūpakKhanda is regenerated from four aggregates stored in kamma bhava.
And this process of recalling involves energy. So, that is why dhamma comes to mind as dhammā.
p.s.
Kamma bhava = viññāṇa dhatu = non-energised-permanenet mental aggregates (four components of PañcakKhanda other than RūpakKhanda) + energised kamma bīja/kamma viññāṇa
You can view summary of this whole topic (aggregates, dhatu, four ultimate realities, PañcakKhanda, memory, kamma etc) in table format in pdf file shared in following reply on forum.
LayDhammaFollowerParticipantI am attaching a document named “Yathābhūta ñāna”. I created that table in order to clearly understand the fundamentals of that topic. Hope it’s helpful to others as well.
Yathabhuta-nana-1<br />
<br />2 users thanked author for this post.
LayDhammaFollowerParticipantPerhaps Internal āyatana in RūpakKhanda refers to mental impression of those āyatana, Rather than physical āyatana themselves.
For example, Humans holds eye, ear, tongue etc as dear to them and hold them close.
RūpakKhanda also has past and future āyatana mental impressions.
Let’s say a person become blind at some point in his life, If he is not arhant then at cuti-paṭisandhi he will grasp a bhava similar to PañcaUpādānakKhanda. He might have desire to have future sense faculties just like he had in past before becoming blind.
p.s. I am not sure if there is difference between āyatana and Saḷāyatana, Is there?
I am clear on differences between six Indriya and twelve āyatana. (Indirya becomes āyatana under influence of taṇhā/avijjā.)
LayDhammaFollowerParticipantAdditionally, when I left comment above, I had thought like ‘why am I so polite? I can do it myself!’
I abruptly stopped thinking.
But I feel I have to apologize. Sorry for my bad gati.
I clicked on thank you by mistake.
LayDhammaFollowerParticipantLal, Can you explain how Pīḷana works at cittā level?
I think Comparison of upcoming PañcakKhanda with PañcaUpādānakKhanda plays important part in this process of Pīḷana.
As DanielSt pointed out in the analogy, As soon as there is some PañcakKhanda which is liked or seen as pleasurable, mind starts to get vexed. But that is bit vague. So, it would be good to understand this at citta level.
LayDhammaFollowerParticipantYes, Nice summary Lal.
Even if machines were to behave exactly as if they are sentient,
Machines cannot take rebirth.
As, You have emphasized a lot, Life cannot be created in lab. All life are originated with kammic energy only. Machines cannot create Kammic energy either.
They cannot access viññāṇa dhatu either.
LayDhammaFollowerParticipantUnderstood.
What about question of “Why they are not subject to entropy “?
Can we even ask such questions? I am not sure.
LayDhammaFollowerParticipantAfter contemplating adinava, I recognized that I have been sensitive about my bad thoughts.
I think it is because of tāpa(heat) that made by my intention.
In my case, it was like boiling oil in my chest.
When I intend to crave something, I can feel heating process right away. Around then, heated breathe already scratch my nose.
I repeated this process for several weeks. It was enough time to teach my body that “craving is dangerous”.
Using LayDhammaFollower’s metaphor, it is like hot pan. When mind craves something in this world, it starts to burn.
You can have even better metaphor;
Think of mind as pressure cooker.
Think of taṇhā/wanting as heat. Which heats the pressure cooker.
Eventually when cooker is heated too much, and pressure is too much.
One will start committing Akusalā abhisaṅkhāra. (Thinking, speaking, behaving in unwholesome way.)
Also, You said that you feel pain in chest. I think this is probably related to hadaya vatthu in centre of chest. I used to experience the same a lot early life.
If you want to see how this whole process of heating works, here’s explanation …
(Perceived pleasure/Assāda at beginning) ∝ (Wanting/desire/expectations/taṇhā/iccha) ∝ (mental vexation/stress/heat/anxiety/Pīḷana) ∝ (1/waiting time) ∝ (amount of pleasure/pain experienced in mind at end)
Corollaries:
Delusion => Something perceived as very pleasurable => more wanting => more mental vexation/stress => less one can wait to have that stress reduced by having what is desired => if one has what is desired – stress is reduced – which is perceived as pleasure under delusion => when one does not have what one desired that increases the stress even more then beginning.
Ignorance/Incomplete wisdom => Something perceived as somewhat pleasurable => less wanting => less mental vexation/stress => more one can wait to have that stress reduced by having what was desired.
Complete Wisdom => Nothing perceived as pleasurable at all => No wanting => no mental vexation/stress => no need to wait for stress to go away as it doesn’t arise in first place for it to reduce later on.
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LayDhammaFollowerParticipantI understand your perspective, Lal.
My question then is
#1 How the kammic energy is different from other types of energy that we understand (electrical energy, heat energy etc.) ?
LayDhammaFollowerParticipantLal, Even though technology has not yet advanced sufficiently, it seems it will in some years. Please watch the video cited. It was very surprising for me to see even the technology that we already have in place, let alone what we will develope.
As for proof? What is proof for sentient ness?
Let’s say that this Artificial agent passes the turing test, what about it then?
LayDhammaFollowerParticipantI think AI will be very similar to sentient beings.
AI can be programmed to generate emotions in particular way by enabling reward and punishment system similar to sentient beings.
It can also be programmed to behave in such a way as to maximise the reward and minimise the punishment based on given information.
For example,
Sentient beings generates “mind made pleasures/stress” when they have what they desire/like/want and when they don’t have what they don’t want. Ofcourse that is entirely mind made. It is not like that pain/pleasure is coming from inherent property of physical object.
Can AI not be programmed similarly as well, No?
I am sure computer scientists can even take inspiration from Abhidhamma to create fundamental algorithm to simulate the mental processes in artificial agents.
Are current artificial agents not capable of taking information (vedanā), recognise that information (saññā), form a response (saṅkhāra) already?
Ofcourse, Just because two things appear similar, that does not mean they are same.
I only see one problem here, which is that how can artificial agent can take rebirth? They don’t have viññāṇa dhatu or permanent memory records.
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