Compilation of experience note

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    • #41872
      namo0804
      Participant

      Reading LayDhammaFollower’s insite note, I learned that such records could work as milestones for others.

      I hope my experience would be hint to others too.

    • #41873
      namo0804
      Participant

      1.

      I felt cuti-patisandhi moment’s dangerousness.

      I want to describe my new mindset about sansara.

      This kind of feeling could very different for each person, so I want you to read this kind of post as relative, not absolute.

      2.

      Let’s imagine you’ve been working hard all day. You must be very tired.

      But you have to work out tomorrow, because it is week days!

      So you set an alarm and get ready to sleep. Thinking like this :

      “I don’t want to get up again.”

      But you have to get up tomorrow! Because you have to work!

       

      3.

      “You don’t want to get up, but you have to get up.”

      This was the horrible point that I realized.

      I extended this viewpoint to the to the whole of sansaric journey, I’ve got a rough understanding of a very terrible fact!

      So far, we’ve rarely rested our mental activities for an infinite amount of time…

      Of course, there are exceptions like born in asanna realm(500 maha kappa), but it is a very small bit.

      To compare sansara to a workplace, we have never retired from a job, just went on vacation rarely.

      I hope my experience could be helpful to others _()_

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      Gad
    • #41877
      LayDhammaFollower
      Participant

      This is good practice @Namo0804!

      ====

      “You don’t want to get up, but you have to get up.”

      This was the horrible point that I realized.

      As long as birth anywhere arises,

      This Three kinds of dukkha will not and can not logically stop.<br />
      Because, world works on laws of causality not as per our wishes.

    • #41879
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Namo0804 wrote: “Of course, there are exceptions like born in asanna realm(500 maha kappa), but it is a very small bit.

      To compare sansara to a workplace, we have never retired from a job, just went on vacation rarely.”

       

      Yes. Good insights.

      • Vacations (like births in human and higher realms) are rare and short-lived.
      • Most time is spent in the four lowest realms (apayas).
      • That holds for any sentient being who has not attained at least the Sotapanna Anugami stage (that includes all humans, Devas, and Brahmas).
    • #41929
      namo0804
      Participant

      That’s what I admired @LayDhammaFollower !!!

       

      You said,

       

      “Because, world works on laws of causality not as per our wishes.”

       

      This sentence gave me a lot of insight. It was explained in more detail in #39349 .

       

      In #39349, LayDhammaFollower said,

       

      Without birth one would not form any attachments.<br /><br />
      Without attachments one would not have birth.

       

      I think it has a profound meaning. So I could only understand a little bit.

       

      I’d like to have my studies checked.

       

      My understanding is as follows :

       

      Attachments are a waste of energy. Because it is key factor to suffering, not what one desires.

       

      Let’s say there’s a man who wants to build muscles.

       

      Man’s cravings to muscle are not causes of muscle production!

       

      When he wants to bulid muscles, he must have to train his body! Not just craving!

       

      If he doesn’t exercise and just wants muscles, he can not get muscles.

       

      So we have to remove attachments. It is useless. Cravings are waste of mental energy.

       

      However, we often misunderstood that cravings are cause of what we want.

       

      Why?

       

      I think it’s because we’re used to use pīḷana as a fuel of sankhara.

       

      But pīḷana is just a source of abhisankhāra. It is not the main cause of what someone wants.

       

      So we have to remove attachments.

       

      Ironically, when we remove attachments in this world, we do not need to be reborn!

       

       

       

      Did I get it right?

    • #41934
      LayDhammaFollower
      Participant

      I want to give you a detailed answer. will do so when I am free.

      Until then I am attaching this photo. I have darkened the unnecessary details.

      Play of jati, tanha and avijja

      Edit: Embedded Image.

    • #41940
      namo0804
      Participant

      @LayDhammaFollower

       

      Thank you!

      I will contemplate about that until then. Thanks very much for your help.

       

      With metta.

    • #42013
      namo0804
      Participant

      To LayDhammaFollower.

       

      I think I understood some of the notes you attached. So I write it down.

      I’d like to have it checked when you have time. I don’t use mention function because don’t want to rush you.

       

      Anyway, reading your notes, I remembered what happened a few years ago.

      One of my friends said, he had never been beaten by his parents.

      So I thought that he would be happy. But he was not.

      He said that he felt inferior when he saw relatives of his age.

      I asked “why?” wondering.

      Then he said, many of his relatives are attending to prestigious universities in USA.

      However, his limit was going to the best university in Korea. That’s why he felt inferior!

       

       

      It was absurd to hear that, but now I understand the structure he and all of us suffered, a little, by contemplating your memo.

      As long as the pañcupādānakkhandhā exists, we will bind to suffering.

      But without jati, there is no pañcupādānakkhandhā!

    • #42080
      LayDhammaFollower
      Participant

      Greetings, @Namo0804!

      First I apologise for very late reply.

      Lately, I have been busy with lots of things and trying my best to mange all of them.

      So, that is why.

      ===

      You said,

      “Attachments are a waste of energy. Because it is key factor to suffering, not what one desires.”

      To be more precise, “Taṇhā for anything which is of Aniccā nature will ALWAYS lead to three kinds of dukkhā AND will ALWAYS leave one helpless (ANATHA) eventually, because we don’t have COMPLETE control over anything. This process is embedded in PAṬICCA SAMUPPĀDA.”

      If one likes Nibbāna, i.e. one has Chanda for Nibbāna then one will not face suffering and one will not become helpless. Because Nibbāna is permanent. Because it is not in domain of causality.

      WE CANNOT STOP ANY PROBLEM THAT COMES DUE TO BIRTH,

      ONLY PROBLEM WE CAN SOLVE IS STOPPING ALL THE ROOT PROBLEM WHICH CAUSES OTHER PROBLEM YO ARISE. ONCE WE SOLVE THAT IT WILL SOLVE OTHER PROBLEMS WITH IT AUTOMATICALLY.

      WHATEVER DUKKHĀ IS EXPERIENCED AFTER BIRTH IS JUST SYMPTOMS OF ‘THE’ DISEASE, NOT DISEASE IN ITSELF.

      Birth IS “THE DISEASE” with infinite symptoms. You cannot stop kamma bija from manifesting their vipakā AS LONG AS there is kāya having indriya.

      For example, if you have headache due to corona virus, you need to fix corona virus not headache. Because corona virus is root problem/disease. Headache is just Symptom of it.

      UNTIL PARINIBBĀNA, ONLY DUKKHĀ WE CAN PERMANENTLY FIX IS STOPPING MENTAL SUFFERING. BECAUSE, MENTAL SUFFERING IS COMPLETELY 100% SELF MADE, ARTIFICIAL, SELF FABRICATED, UNNATURAL. p.s. mental suffering arises due to samphassa-jā-vedanā, which arises due to defiled gati. Arhant has removed all the defiled gati.

      So, no one can ever make an arhant suffer mentally. He can be hurt physically.

      Whatever arhant experiences is brushed off like water falls off the leaf. Whether someone tells him harsh words, beats him or whatever PañcakKhanda is experienced, is fine and okay AND accepted completely as it is.

      He knows completely that taking revenge i.e. retaliation, will only bring what he wants to stop. No one can stop hatred by hatred but only by love and compassion. Because if you hate someone, you create new kamma bija which might give future suffering.

      In addition putting forth saṅkhāra to do anything, accomplish anything is actually completely useless. Because nothing wr like will stay the way we want it to stay. Nothing can be maintained to our liking in long term.

      Saṅkhāra is useless suffering, whatever we accomplish with any saṅkhāra except Kusala mula saṅkhāra is also equally useless and bring much suffering.

      So, arhant has completely accepted and has understood that whatever is happening to him in present is just vipakā and vipakā happens due to having senses which gives rise to PañcakKhanda.

      Apuñña ābhisaṅkhāra = unpleasant PañcakKhanda.

      Puñña ābhisaṅkhāra = pleasent PañcakKhanda.

      UNTIL PARINIBBĀNA, THERE IS NO FULL PROOF SOLUTION TO PHYSICAL SUFFERING THAT ARISES DUE TO KAMMA VIPAKĀ.

      ===

      You said,

      As long as the pañcupādānakkhandhā exists, we will bind to suffering.

      But without jati, there is no pañcupādānakkhandhā!

      BUT, remember we CANNOT ever stop jāti from arising by wishing for it to stop. We need to stop cause which results in jāti.

      Jāti is due to bhava.

      Bhava is due to PañcaUpādānakKhanda.

      PañcaUpādānakKhanda is due to taṇhā.

      Taṇhā is due to avijjā.

      Avijjā is not knowing 4NT.

      4NT = Paṭicca Samuppāda + tilakkhana.

      I wrote summary of 4NT in beginning of this reply in bold font.

      SO, Basically as long as we don’t understand Aniccā nature of this whole world, everything in it, WE WILL ATTACH, BUT, THAT ATTACHMENT TO ANYTHING OF SAṄSARĀ, ANYTHING OF ANICCĀ NATURE WILL BRING NOTHING BUT HEAPS AND PILES OF MISERY OF INFINITE VARITIES, EVENTUALLY. Even in the present life we are helpless against many problems, for example the problems related to physical health etc.

      Everyone faces infinite problems and suffering in life but, only Buddha can figure out the ultimate problem which is responsible for all other problems.

      Without mind having infinite wisdom such as Buddha mind, all beings will ALWAYS remain in DELUSION about the true source of their suffering.

      BECAUSE, WANTING LONG TERM HAPPINESS BY STAYING IN SAṄSARĀ IS LIKE EXPECTING COMPASSION FROM HITLER.

    • #42082
      LayDhammaFollower
      Participant

      In above reply I said,

      UNTIL PARINIBBĀNA, ONLY DUKKHĀ WE CAN PERMANENTLY FIX IS STOPPING MENTAL SUFFERING. BECAUSE, MENTAL SUFFERING IS COMPLETELY 100% SELF MADE, ARTIFICIAL, SELF FABRICATED, UNNATURAL. p.s. mental suffering arises due to samphassa-jā-vedanā, which arises due to defiled gati. Arhant has removed all the defiled gati.

      To add to that,

      What actually happens is that,

      Vexed mind creates the “new world” at cuti paṭisandhi to relieve itself from vexation (created by sakkāya/PañcaUpādānakKhandathat it is experiencing at that moment. Mind does not understand that what it enjoys is very thing that brings suffering/harm to itself, that is why it attaches to anything of this world.

      p.s. vexed mind = ignorant mind = mind NOT free from ten saṃyojana = mind that has taṇhā and PañcaUpādānakKhanda = mind that is suffering = mind that has constant unending Pīḷana due to having sakkāya/PañcaUpādānakKhanda

      Attachment to anything in saṅsarā is like eating poisoned chocolate. Gives pleasure for while, brings much suffering in future.

      Here, “Arising of World” means arising “one’s personal World” = PañcakKhanda Samudaya = Loka Samudaya = “Sabba(all)” Samudaya = “Dukkhā” Samudaya = Jāti Samudaya = “Indriya” Samudaya

      Samudaya = San + Udaya = Arising of San/defilements

      Nirodha = Stopping something from arising by stopping its causes.

      We cannot have taṇhā and stop the birth from arising because taṇhā itself is directly responsible for arising of birth. When birth arises, indriya arises, phassa arises, vedanā arises and taṇhā is again triggered.

      The possible only way to stop bhava/jāti from arising is by removing taṇhā.

      Taṇhā in turn is due to vipallāsa about saṅsarā and loka. One views/perceives/thinks about world as Niccā, sukha, atta. This is why attached to various objects (PañcakKhanda). but because world is not that way, this false expectations and hopes and worldview leads to expecting compassion from Hitler. Which will never happen.

      This is why just living in Forrest away from all the temptations is neither necessary nor sufficient the way to practice dhamma.

      ===

      To extinguish fire of jāti, one needs to stop feeding it the four types of wood logs (four types of foods) and one also needs to cutoff the oxygen supply sustaining fire.

      Four foods = physical food, sancētana, phassa and saṅkhāra

      Oxygen supply = taṇhā, avijjā

      ===

      I did read about your friend suffering mentally due to his University and parents problem.

      Here, real eye opening insight which might seem shocking to someone new to dhamma is that all this mental suffering is completely utterly absurdly meaningless useless and worthless.

      Think about it …

      Why does your friend (or anyone else for that matter) needs to constantly put efforts to to go to good University, earn a living, satisfy expectations of parents etc ?

      Did he not tried to create good life for himself in past too? What happened to his past efforts to create good life?

      Maybe he was wheel turning monarch in past lives, but, is that of even little importance now? So, is the case with our present life. All out efforts except efforts put towards understanding dhamma and getting rid of avijjā and achieving magga phala will be useless in long timeframe.

      No one is saṅsarā is able to keep anything they like the way they like it.

      That is why we are never relieved from saṅkhāra dukkhā (until Parinibbāna).

      Whether we achieve something in this saṅsarā or not, it does not matter, as long as we are in saṅsarā this saṅkhāra dukkhā won’t ever stop. It might get reduced but won’t completely stop.

      That is why we need some sort of secure place which stays as it is without ever changing. This place is Nibbāna. There is not even a trace of dukkhā involved in Nibbāna.

      Because even if your friend has achieved everything he wanted somehow, he could not stop death and there is no guarantee about where he will born in future. With physical death, again all his progress will be reset. He will lost everything he has, he will have to leave behind everything and will have to pass away and born according to his kamma of he is not an Arhant. He will have to start climbing mountain once again just like Sisyphus of Greek mythology.

      Even if he is born human, he will have to do everything again.

      This will happen endlessly until he realises the futility of anything of this world and saṅsarā.

      It is possible that your friend was well turning monarch before some lives. But, isn’t that all gone now and lost? So, whatever someone has except magga phala is all lost and useless with death. So one should strive for magga phala.

      I hope this did not sound very harsh. I wrote it with compassion not with any ill will.

    • #42083
      LayDhammaFollower
      Participant

      To understand how rebirth is full of suffering read this single page document:

      Inherent unfixable Asymmetry between happiness and suffering in rebirth cycle

    • #42096
      namo0804
      Participant

      To @LayDhammaFollower

      First of all, thank you for your metta. I felt samadhi just by reading the text.

      Sādhu Sādhu Sādhu _()_

      <br />
      Secondly, thank you for explaining it in an easy-to-understand way.

      Analogy of root problem(disease) and symptom is worth.

      In my understanding, we maintain disease(samsara) for an infinite amount of time, because we love the effects of painkillers(amisa sukha) so much.

      We cannot imagine what is real recovery(nibbana). Only the Buddha can find it.

      I want to contemplate this metaphor a little more.

      Once again, thank you for your help.

      May the blessings of the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha be with all beings.

    • #42130
      namo0804
      Participant

      MEMO 1

      To paraphrase, bhava is like a heated pan.

      And tanhā is the flame that heats the pan.

      The temperature of a heated pan is pīḷana.

      Let’s say there is a frog on the pan.

      When the surprised frog jumps up, it feels cool for a while. This is amisa sukha.

      But frog have to land on the pan eventually.(Eventually leads to suffering. As Ven Lal said in the desana.)

      The heated pan has anicca nature. We heat the pan by our own tanhā.

      When the fire(tanhā) dies down, we feel cool. It is niramisa sukha.

      We tend to think amisa sukha is the only solution. It is because of avijjā.

      When someone feels real niramisa sukha, he or she cannot forget it.

      MEMO 2

      The important thing is, we cannot crave(or imagine) about parinibbana.

      The sankhara named craving, only focus on a thing in the pancakkhandha.

      But nibbana’s feeling, cannot figure out that way.

      It is just understood by ragakkhayo(=dosakkhayo = mohakkhayo )

      Ragakkhayo can be initiate by comprehending about anicca nature.

      When one’s mind feel the need to ragakkhayo, it will initiate automatically.

      (This contents are corrected by Dosakkhayo.

      May the blessings of The Triple Gem be with him and everyone!)

    • #42224
      namo0804
      Participant

      Nowadays, I think I have often unterstood the process of making new bhava with kamma viññāṇa.

      How does lobha make the pretta bhava?

      I understood as follows :

      • Lobha is based on the mind that “I do not have this one severely!” It looks natural that such a mindset makes preta bhava.

      And why does Dana leads to the deva or human bhava?

      • When we give something to others, we have the mindset of “I have this, you don’t have it, so let us share.”
      • It looks natural that such a mindset makes good bhava or good vipaka.

      In a word, craving is a statement about deficiency in itself.

      • Using this fact, we can see why we have to do saṅkhāra. Why?
      • Because we do not have something in our pancupādānakkhandha, structurally/automatically.

      For example, why should humans eat food?

      • Because human bhava does not automatically produce food.

      In contrast, a Brahma does not need any food.

      Because Brahma bhava arose due to a mindset with alobha.

      And this structure, called bhava, is created by our defiled mind named kamma viññāna.

      Why?

      To enjoy something, we must be lacking it inherently and are under stress (pīḷana); thus, we enjoy it when we finally get it. 

      For example, water tastes good if we are very thirsty. But after we had enough water, we would not enjoy drinking more.

      Because of this, we could conclude that amisa sukha is just a pain killer.

      To quote Laydhammafollower’s advice: bhava(=maintaining sansara) is a disease, amisa sukha is just a painkiller, and we can fully recover by reaching  Nibbana.

      In the rebirth process, we have always had cravings because we thought they could give us pleasure and happiness.

      But in reality, our cravings have only brought us “states of deficiency,” i.e., we are always looking for ways to reduce stress (pīḷana), and when we get it after much struggle, we become joyful. That is our ignorance!

      In summary, when we crave something, it leads to future bhava with more deficiency built in. 

      That is why it is a never-ending process until we get rid of tanhā (craving) for worldly things!

    • #42244
      Lal
      Keymaster

      That is an excellent post, namo0804!

      I revised some of your sentences. Please feel free to re-state if my rewording did not capture your ideas sufficiently.

    • #42269
      namo0804
      Participant

      Thank you for your help, Lal!

      I think the revised sentences is better.

      Because the modified context seems to lead the reader’s mind toward nirvana, more.

      Previous version may be misleading to the reader, I think.

      The appropriate use of bold and bulleted list tool increased readability also!

      Thank you again for the correction.

    • #42355
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Your formatting issue can be handled in the following way:

      1. If you want to “bold” or ‘italicize” a sentence, first write the sentence. Then drag the cursor across it to select the sentence and click “bold (B)” or “italicize (I)” in the Toolbar.

      2. If you want to provide a link to a post, first open that post in a different tab. Copy the title and then paste it into your comment. Select that title like above, and click on the “chain link symbol” (10th item in the Toolbar). That will open a “small window.” Go back to the other tab and copy the web address. Come back and paste it in the first box in the “small window.” Also, don’t forget to click the downward arrow in the “Target” box at the bottom of that “small window” and select “New Window.” Then click “OK” to close that “small window.”

      • That last action will open the link in a new tab when someone clicks on it. That is helpful for the reader since they can go back and forth between your comment and the post you linked.
      • The one next to the “chain link symbol” is to “undo link.” After writing the comment, if you realize that you put in the wrong link (or that you forgot to change the “Target” box), you can open the comment, select the link and click the “undo link.” Then you can re-do the linking process.

      3. P.S. When you copy a title of a post and paste it, it may appear in big letters corresponding to a “heading” like this: 

      “Waharaka Thero English Subs Discourse”

      • It will say “Heading 1” in the drop-down box in the second formatting row.
      • Here, click on that box and select “paragraph,” which will reduce the text’s size. Now you can select that text and add the link.

      4. For All: Please feel free to try these out below. Type “TESTING” first and try out any formatting method you like. I can delete them later.

      • There are many options available in the Toolbar now. Feel free to test them. It is good to learn them to express yourself better and make things clear to others.
      • If you write an incorrect statement, you can select it and then use “scissors” to cut it out, etc.
    • #43204
      namo0804
      Participant

      Roman Jakobson, linguist, said

      Languages differ essentially in what they must convey and not in what they may convey.

      When I saw this, I could feel why Pāli word anatta must not be interpretated as “anātma”, the Sanskrit word.

       

      The reasons are as follows :

      • Vedic brahmins wanted to be the Brahma permanently. They were attached to brahma bhava.

      It is natural for such people to be obsessed with “No-self”.

       

      • According to neuroscience, human brain cannot understand negatives.

      Let’s suppose that we heard like “Don’t think of an elephant“.

      When we hear this, we have no choice but to think of an elephant.

      Same way, the Sanskrit word “anātma”, means “No-self“, leads people obsessed to their bhava, I think.

       

      • But Pāli word anatta, which means worthless, leads peole to nibbana.

      This is because everyone has an instinct to avoid damage.

    • #43205
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Yes. Quite right.

      However, it is hard to see the “damage” until one comprehends how different types of bhava (existence) and rebirths (jati) are created by our own mindset, speech, and actions (all done with abhisankhara.)

      • Of course, one can be “born” in various existences during life too. It is easier if one understands, for example, how an innocent teenager can become a drug addict, thief, etc.
      • Paṭicca Samuppāda During a Lifetime

      I know that you have likely understood this. I am providing the link for those who may not have fully understood.

    • #43207
      namo0804
      Participant

      Thank you for consideration.

    • #43838
      namo0804
      Participant

      Suddenly, I had this thought.

      If we start to like(or crave) something in the world, it will attract an event about that.

      In other words, Upadana generates and attracts specific events that we can recognize.

      The event that we made would come in this life or next life.

       

      If we remove the partition called Jati, it is easier to see.

      Cuti-patisandhi moment shares the same mold.

      It is like baking cookies with different ingredients in the same process.

    • #43842
      lal54
      Participant

      “If we start to like(or crave) something in the world, it will attract an event about that.”

      Yes. That is the point. 

      • An Arahant does not crave anything in this world. That is why he will not be reborn in any of the 31 realms.
      • If someone has cravings left for sensual pleasures, they will be born in one of the 11 realms in kama loka. An Anagami has removed all kama raga, and thus will not be reborn in kama loka.
      • If someone is willing to engage in apayagami actions to enjoy sensual pleasures, then they can be born in an apaya (one of the four lowest realms).
      • That is what Paticca Samuppada explains.
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #43851
      namo0804
      Participant

      After contemplating adinava, I recognized that I have been sensitive about my bad thoughts.

      I think it is because of tāpa(heat) that made by my intention.

      In my case, it was like boiling oil in my chest. 

      When I intend to crave something, I can feel heating process right away. Around then, heated breathe already scratch my nose.

      I repeated this process for several weeks. It was enough time to teach my body that “craving is dangerous”.

      Using LayDhammaFollower’s metaphor, it is like hot pan. When mind craves something in this world, it starts to burn.

    • #44502
      namo0804
      Participant

      [Removing craving = Having Moral deed with samma ditthi = Kusala sankhara = Removing San gati]

      All of these are connected each other.

      If someone comprehends this correctly, he or she would be able to remove silabbata paramasa.

      (I think I have not remove this yet.)

    • #44507
      LayDhammaFollower
      Participant

      After contemplating adinava, I recognized that I have been sensitive about my bad thoughts.

      I think it is because of tāpa(heat) that made by my intention.

      In my case, it was like boiling oil in my chest. 

      When I intend to crave something, I can feel heating process right away. Around then, heated breathe already scratch my nose.

      I repeated this process for several weeks. It was enough time to teach my body that “craving is dangerous”.

      Using LayDhammaFollower’s metaphor, it is like hot pan. When mind craves something in this world, it starts to burn.

      You can have even better metaphor;

      Think of mind as pressure cooker.

      Think of taṇhā/wanting as heat. Which heats the pressure cooker.

      Eventually when cooker is heated too much, and pressure is too much.

      One will start committing Akusalā abhisaṅkhāra. (Thinking, speaking, behaving in unwholesome way.)

      Also, You said that you feel pain in chest. I think this is probably related to hadaya vatthu in centre of chest. I used to experience the same a lot early life.

      If you want to see how this whole process of heating works, here’s explanation …

      (Perceived pleasure/Assāda at beginning) ∝ (Wanting/desire/expectations/taṇhā/iccha) ∝ (mental vexation/stress/heat/anxiety/Pīḷana) ∝ (1/waiting time) ∝ (amount of pleasure/pain experienced in mind at end)

      Corollaries:

      Delusion => Something perceived as very pleasurable => more wanting => more mental vexation/stress => less one can wait to have that stress reduced by having what is desired => if one has what is desired – stress is reduced – which is perceived as pleasure under delusion => when one does not have what one desired that increases the stress even more then beginning.

      Ignorance/Incomplete wisdom => Something perceived as somewhat pleasurable => less wanting => less mental vexation/stress => more one can wait to have that stress reduced by having what was desired.

      Complete Wisdom => Nothing perceived as pleasurable at all => No wanting => no mental vexation/stress => no need to wait for stress to go away as it doesn’t arise in first place for it to reduce later on.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #44508
      namo0804
      Participant

      Thank you LayDhammaFollower!

      I will contemplate like as you recommended.

      Thank you for commitment 🙏

    • #44521
      namo0804
      Participant

      To @LayDhammaFollwer

      Your advice gave me a lot of insight about Paticca Samuppada.

      I want to appreciate once again!

    • #44523
      namo0804
      Participant

      Additionally, when I left comment above, I had thought like ‘why am I so polite? I can do it myself!’

      I abruptly stopped thinking.

      But I feel I have to apologize. Sorry for my bad gati.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #44579
        LayDhammaFollower
        Participant

        Additionally, when I left comment above, I had thought like ‘why am I so polite? I can do it myself!’

        I abruptly stopped thinking.

        But I feel I have to apologize. Sorry for my bad gati.

        I clicked on thank you by mistake.

    • #44572
      namo0804
      Participant

      LayDhammaFollower gave a methaphor like :

      WHATEVER DUKKHĀ IS EXPERIENCED AFTER BIRTH IS JUST SYMPTOMS OF ‘THE’ DISEASE, NOT DISEASE IN ITSELF.

      Birth IS “THE DISEASE” with infinite symptoms. You cannot stop kamma bija from manifesting their vipakā AS LONG AS there is kāya having indriya.

      For example, if you have headache due to corona virus, you need to fix corona virus not headache. Because corona virus is root problem/disease. Headache is just Symptom of it.

       

      Recently, I found the Sutta which helps to understand. (Māgandhiya Sutta, MN 75)

      Metaphor of leperosy was helpful.

      I also recommend this, too : (SN 12.63)

       

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #45316
      namo0804
      Participant

      We have always chased by a beast named Tanhā.

      So we have always jumped into a prison called Bhava.

      If we throw meat to the beast, it will momentarily stop.

      In that moment, we may feel a sense of relief temporarily.

      However, it will eventually start chasing.

    • #45317
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Good analogy!

      • Yes. We need to “stop feeding the beast,” at least gradually.
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #45367
      namo0804
      Participant

      I post this to receive a feedback if there are any errors in the beneath.🙏

       

       

      Satta below the Anāgami arises Dosa or paṭigha. It is not for experiencing the suffering, but to avoid the suffering related to something that someone dislike. At least the intention is for that.

      However, Dosa and paṭigha attract the suffering related to something that someone dislike.

      So, is there any value in Dosa/paṭigha?

      If one understands that Dosa which cause suffering in niraya bhava is ‘worthless,’ one understands anātta at the level of Sotāpanna.

      If one understands that paṭigha which cause suffering in human bhava is ‘worthless,’ one understands anātta at the level of Sakadāgāmi.

      If one understands that paṭigha which cause suffering in Deva bhava is ‘worthless,’ one understands anātta at the level of Anāgāmi.

       

       

      🙏

    • #45375
      Lal
      Keymaster

      The following is a quick summary:

      1. Before comprehending anatta, one must comprehend anicca.
      2. Before comprehending anicca, dukkha, and anatta, one must eliminate higher levels of dosa and patigha.
      3. The higher level of dosa/patigha is kodha (anger). One can be born in apayas until kodha (and higher levels of greed) are removed. See “Kodhapeyyāla
      4. Patigha is a much “lower level” of anger. One would not even talk harshly with patigha. It is a very lower level of anger and is “an irritation with another person.” But one can kill another person with kodha. Those with kodha tend to get angry quickly and tend to retaliate. 
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #45376
      namo0804
      Participant

      Oh it is first time that I heard about kodha. Thank you for commitments!

       

      🙏

    • #45377
      Lal
      Keymaster

      The two posts in the following link can be helpful:

      Anguttara Nikāya – Suttā on Key Concepts

      Another section that can be helpful:

      Root of All Suffering – Ten Immoral Actions

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #45379
      namo0804
      Participant

      Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu!

    • #45424
      Lal
      Keymaster

      More suttas highlight the importance of getting rid of akusala to avoid rebirths in apayas:

      I am not sure how accurate these translations are. But they should be enough to get the idea. Usually, adjacent suttas also provide more information.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #46848
      namo0804
      Participant

      Theruwan Saranayi 🙏

      I listened to the Waharaka Thero’s Tilakkhana desana yesterday afternoon.

      Thero’s Desana

      At that time, the thought of the gilded statue came to my mind.

      No matter how nicely one gilds it, it will peel off eventually.

      Like that, Greed, Anxiety, lamentation, etc will arise eventually when one has raga, dosa, and moha mind.

      For example, I have the habit of chewing the callus on my finger when I am anxious.

      I have failed to overcome my anxiety with this method.

      I tried hard to remove my anxiety by chewing callus. But I can’t.

      Like the peeled gilded statue, mental suffering always came up.

      I think it is because I am attached to that.

      Attaching to pleasure (or disliking suffering) makes mental suffering new every moment.

      In other words, abhisankhara pumped up my mental suffering always.

      So I couldn’t eradicate with that deed.

      It’s not just a fault of the behavior, but because of my mind, which has San (raga dosa moha).

      To visualize, attaching to something resembles injecting poison into the food.

      It doesn’t matter whether the food is good or bad.

      The critical fact is that food has been polluted (by our mental activities).

      The thing we need to do is get rid of the poison.

      But we have always behaved like changing bad food with good food, while still putting poison (San).

      As I pondered this far, the message in Ven. Lal’s discourse came to mind.

      Link of the discourse

      Ven Lal says :

      ‘If something eventually leads to suffering, even if brings immediate happiness, that is of Anicca nature.’

      I guess the suffering is mental (made by our mind) with Avijja.

      We cannot remove it with sensual pleasure.

      To make matters worse, expectations about sensual pleasure amplify that kind of suffering.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      Gad
    • #46850
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Attaching to “pleasurable things” can be stopped in two ways. 

      (i) Think about the long-term “bad” consequences of such attachments, especially if such attachments lead to doing immoral or unwise deeds. 

      (ii) At a deeper level, any attachment takes a mind away from the “suffering-free state” (pabhassara citta). Furthermore, what we perceive to be “tasty,” “beautiful,” or “good-smelling,” etc. are all made up by our minds. It is what I call “distorted sanna” in the post below. Even though we cannot eliminate those sensations of tastiness, etc. (even an Arahant experiences them), by comprehending that mechanism, we can stop the subsequent attachment. That is what an Arahant has done to get to Arahanthood!

      It could be a bit harder to see (ii) above. But if one can comprehend it, then it will make stopping attachments much more effortless.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #46851
      namo0804
      Participant

      Oh, it must be contemplated more. Thank you.

    • #46935
      namo0804
      Participant

      At present, there is just ‘new-forming’ which is done by temporary 5 aggregates that formed in the past.

      There is no “I” as an absolute ruler of this forming process. Just forming is there.

      Feeling as “I or soul” is also formed at every moment by our Avijja.

      This forming based on our kilesa forms fear and suffering every moment.

      • This fear and suffering chase us to urge to arise new forming (generate more sankhara.)
      • This fear and suffering pop up because we formed energy in the past through our strong intentions. But it is uncontrollable.

      We can only create new processes with sankhara. After that, we lose control, because now the kammic effects of our initial action start new processes. There is no “Me or I” as controller of the cause and effect process. The feeling of “I” as the controller is an illusion made by past formation based on miccha ditthi.

      Making a rough analogy, it is like a person hit by a ricocheting bullet that he shot.

      • He can only shoot bullets. He cannot control the ricochet process.

       

      For example, I had had an obsession with suppressing wrong thinking excessively.

      • When bad thoughts popped up without my intention, I blamed myself.
      • With those deeds, I couldn’t remove bad thoughts.
      • To make matters worse, not only stronger bad thoughts but also blaming thoughts poped up together, automatically.

      That process was made by my past bad intention. I made that by myself, but I couldn’t control it, like the ricochet of the bullet.

      • I didn’t come up with that bad thought intentionally. It popped up itself by a condition formed in the past.
      • It can apply to all kinds of thinking that pop up in our minds automatically.

      In the case above, there was no “me” controlling that.

      • Arising thought, which was made by past intention, initiated more new processes.

      The only thing we do in Akusala Mula Paticca samuppada is to initiate citta flow by our new present intention. We cannot control what happens next. Forming intention is the only thing we can control.

       

      But, the right of control is also made by our good kamma. It is not free. I perceive this because I removed autism by meditation.

      • Before meditation, I was dragged by stressful thought of autism and obsession that had been made by past bad intention.

      We know many people who suffer from their citta flow which was made by their own bad intentions, but cannot control the arising of subsequent mental suffering and unwholesome intentions.

      • As far as the temporary state of citta flow, they resemble petas (hungry ghosts) or animals.
      • Petas can suffer for eons because it cannot control its Citta flow. But a human can control with mindfulness.

       

      Understanding the above, I could understand that assada (intentional thinking about sensual pleasure) makes harsh suffering.

      Because it is an intense, harsh formation process, it is like being hit by ricochet bullets that are shot from a machine gun.

      There is no pleasure feeling and painful feeling, just less painful and very painful.

      But the illusion made by our delusion covers our minds. That is why we constantly think about sensual pleasure.

      To break that, we must initiate Kusala citta flow which an Ariya can maintain.

       

      The Sammasambuddha is the only one who can discover this process.

      He is the first one (in his Buddha Sasana) who can teach how to construct the citta flow that leads to Nibbana.

      Every Kusala Citta in a mind originates from the teachings of the Supreme Buddha. Without a Buddha, we would not know how to generate kusala citta.

      • This is why Bhavana (mindful meditation) is the best way to pay homage to the Buddha.
      • Bhavana is the same as homaging Buddha.
      • Conversely, an homage to Buddha is Bhavana also. It is suitable for both Ariyas and Puttujanas.
      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #46937
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Thank you for sharing those wise thoughts!

      Sadhu! Sadhu!! Sadhu!!!

    • #46938
      dosakkhayo
      Participant

      sadhu! sadhu! sadhu!

    • #46939
      namo0804
      Participant

      I found some inappropriate expressions had been revised by Ven Lal.

       

      Readability enhanced than before by proofreading. Thank you for kindness. 🙏

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