April 25, 2023 at 7:07 am #44491LayDhammaFollowerParticipant
We know some facts about memory records;
#1 They are not located anywhere but are everywhere all time.
#2 They are permanent.
#3 All energy and matter are subject to entropy; decaying and destruction.
What are nāma gotta are made up of then?
What mechanism ensures their permanence?
April 26, 2023 at 6:28 am #44510
“#1 They are not located anywhere but are everywhere all time.”
- Yes. They are in vinnana dhatu. The Buddha revealed that. Even today, scientists are aware of only five dhatu: patavi, apo, tejo, vayo, akasa. Material things are made of the first four and located in akasa dathu.
“What are nāma gotta are made up of then?
What mechanism ensures their permanence?”
- Nāma gotta are not”made up” of anything.
- They are only RECORDS of events that have happened.
- We can only convince ourselves of the truth of that. Without the existence of nāma gotta, no one can live!
- Think carefully about the above statement. See “The Amazing Mind – Critical Role of Nāmagotta (Memories).“
April 26, 2023 at 6:56 am #44512LayDhammaFollowerParticipant
What about question of “Why they are not subject to entropy “?
Can we even ask such questions? I am not sure.
April 26, 2023 at 7:24 am #44513
“What about question of “Why they are not subject to entropy “?
Can we even ask such questions?”
Of course, you can ask questions. If I did not give an answer to a question, ask again. Sometimes I think my reply has the answer, other times I may simply miss it.
- Entropy is associated with things with energy.
- Nāma gotta do not have energy. That is why I emphasized that they are only RECORDS.
- Entropy increases with time, as shown by the Second Law of Thermodynamics. That is going from “ordered states” to “disordered states” and is another manifestation of anicca nature.
- “Second Law of Thermodynamics is Part of Anicca!“
P.S. Regarding viññāṇa dhātu: “Where Are Memories Stored? – Viññāṇa Dhātu.”
April 29, 2023 at 6:43 am #44533Tobias GParticipant
I think what is missing, is a clear overview about the different entities the mind creates: dhammā, namagotta, namarupa, gati, vinnana, kammabijja, kammavinnana, kammabhava, pancakkhandha ….
As we know there are only 4 ultimate entities: rupa, citta, cetasika, Nibbana. Thus these words above are just different terminologies for “mind made things”.
The sutta says: “manañca paṭicca dhammē ca uppajjāti manōviññāṇaṃ“. The mind comes into contact with dhammā which lead to manovinnana. I use the word dhammā to include all possible mental objects. The question is, how much energy do those objects contain?
There are several pancadvara citta vithi, some of them have javana citta, some not. But all pancadvara citta vithi are followed by manodvara citta vithi with javana citta. Therefore if the mind contacts the world with any of the six senses, javana citta in manodvara citta vithi combine nama and rupa and “store the result” as pancakkhandha. If it is just an imprint of an event (vipaka vinnana) the dhammā are so fine, that we cannot speak of energy. If it is more (kamma vinnana), the dhammā contain energy, what we call kammabijja, gati … In any way it is anidassana appaṭigha rupa (=dhammā).
These dhammā are reference points for the mind, which compares the objects with them, recognizes and reacts accordingly. Recognition is colored according to the existing “old dhammā” (gati) and therefore leads to akusala PS. If the current object is a memory, old feelings are also incorporated into it and mixed with current gati. The mind refers everything perceived again and again to itself, stabilizes itself with it and also separates itself from the environment or forms an I-perception. Through the self-reference also the impression arises that one is in the possession of the truth.
April 29, 2023 at 7:46 am #44534
Yes. That is a good analysis. Thank you, Tobias.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.