LayDhammaFollower

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  • LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    Anyone else realised the countless catch-22 feedback loops that exists in Paṭicca Samuppāda?

    i.e. How things goes both ways.

    Example.

    Reason for all future suffering is birth and reason for birth is ATTACHMENT to objects with Aniccā nature. (This all objects are found in 31 realms only). One more reason is when one has birth, with birth one only experiences objects with Aniccā nature, one would form attachments to this saṅkhata with Aniccā nature because of seeing whatever little pleasure is found in them, ignoring the hidden suffering in them due to viparinama. With saṅkhata of Aniccā nature, one would have dukkha and dukkha alone eventually, not anything else ever. Because, nibbanā that is only niccā and asaṅkhata cannot be had by staying in the world, i.e. through rebirth in 31 realms anywhere in any type of birth of any type.

    On the other hand, Without birth one would not meet objects with Aniccā nature, so would not form attachments with them, either. So, with that one would not experience any suffering that comes with attachment to objects with Aniccā nature and one would not have suffering that comes due to birth which is old age, illness and death either.

    So, with REMAINDELESS cessation/stopping/removal of attachment/tanha to 6 internal/6 external Rūpa of Aniccā nature, as consequence of birth that is stopped, one would be free of all suffering,. So, one would never meet any Rūpa with Aniccā characteristic.

    But, we are born again and again, in influence of viññana (expectations + memories + projections + vedana + sanna) to experience niccā sukkhā from something that is Aniccā and causes dukkhā (both in present and in future through rebirth) if we attach to it in hope of gaining sukkhā out of distorted diṭṭhi/saññā/cittā.

    Buddha once said that one who has defiled viññana, cannot understand true nature of the world. Because, with viññana one doesn’t just see the objects as they are, but, they see it with coloured perception, one would project all sorts of expectations on that arammana. Projections about either how it can give happiness/pleasure, how it might lead to unpleasant feelings.

    At the root lies our ignorance of this whole process.

    p.s. ofcourse, ATTACHMENT to object with true niccā nature is not problem, because then one would actually have niccā state, then one would have both sukha and atta. And only object with true niccā nature is asaṅkhata nibbanā.

    So, if someone were to claim that attachment is whole problem. NO. wrong kind of attachment is problem. Right kind of attachment is not Problem. One would lokottara samma diṭṭhi would have right kind of attachment. One’s right attachment would increase with every magga phala.

    In summary why this is catch – 22?

    Without birth one would not form any attachments.
    Without attachments one would not have birth.

    With attachment one would have birth,
    And With birth one would deliberately/willingly create further attachments based on the perceived pleasent, Charming, delightful nature of that object (while avoiding their drawbacks and viparinama). Hence, would lead to more future suffering through birth.

    So, both this loops feed into each other.

    It is because of tanha for objects with Aniccā nature, one would have suitable birth. which inevitably leads to all sort of suffering that comes due to birth.

    WITHOUT any birth whatsoever anywhere at all,one would not be able to meet objects with anicca nature, hence, not forming of attachment, hence no birth. Either meeting unliked or seperating from liked, it can happen only with birth, not otherwise.

    So, Only when one eradicated the tanha for six internal and six external Rūpa with Aniccā nature, would one be able to escape from the suffering completely, otherwise, it is impossible that one would have birth and one would NOT meet something that is Aniccā.

    And Without lokottara samma diṭṭhi, one would not see all this, would not see how objects with Aniccā nature are. Hence, one would have attachment, hence one would have upādāna → bhava → jati → jara, marana etc e.g. whole mass of suffering arising due to attachment to objects with Aniccā nature.

    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    One must fulfill the four conditions to become sōtapanna @dosakkhayo.

    Just so that you know, Four conditions to become sōtapanna is different from four qualities of someone who is at least sōtapanna.

    One of the condition to become sōtapanna is that One must LISTEN to dhamma sermon or desana by someone who is at least Sōtapanna.

    Only when problem, it’s causes, it’s end and path to its end are seen and understood to some level, can one start working on the problem. To understand the problem reading is beneficial and can lead to sōtapanna anugami stage, you must listen to dhamma sermon either in live mode or recorded one to get exact problem definition, so to speak.

    This sections contains complete analysis on the sōtapanna stage (↓)
    Sōtapanna Stage of Nibbāna

    This page (↓) contains complete summary of what happens at different level with attainment of various stages of nibbanā

    (What āsavā, anusuya, citta, Cetasika, samyojana are removed or reduced at various stages.)

    Conditions for the Four Stages of Nibbāna

    • This reply was modified 4 days, 5 hours ago by Lal.
    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    Insight topic:

    Is there anyone in world who is immune from worldly suffering?

    ———-

    If one thinks there is someone who can stop it or is immune from the suffering buddha talks about In first noble truth, one hasn’t understand the message of buddha yet …

    Because, it is kind of suffering that is *impossible* to avoid.

    Just like fish cannot eat worm without getting caught in hook. It is like that.

    Every kind of suffering anyone has ever faced in long sansarā, is all described in first noble truth. Yet, one cannot ever exhaust oneself with contemplation on it.

    Not only “what is suffering”,
    But, it’s deepest root cause too.

    It is deepest reason why we suffer.

    Once that cause it eliminated, there is no more arising suffering in any form.

    Buddha once said that bhikkus it due to not understanding this four noble truths that you and me, we both have wandered in this sansarā for so long.

    So deep is noble truths.

    Suffering which buddha describes,
    No one is free from it.

    And buddha is just messanger, he discovered that laws of nature are not compatible with long term well being and happiness of anyone.

    No one can be free from it as long as one doesn’t understand what causes suffering ultimately on the deepest level, the very core of pain.

    It is because we strive against the system that isn’t capable of providing the long term Happiness to any being, that we suffer so much.

    This is hard to understand.

    Because for so long we have tried to fight the entropy/disintegration/chaos of system, rather than setting our own affairs in order.

    We hold world in very high esteem.

    As long as we think it is us who are at shortcoming rather than world, we will keep suffering.

    Because, how can one not suffer when one touches the hot pan.

    Impossible rights?

    Noone is free from dukkhā that buddha talks about.

    Not scientists, politician, rockstar, actor, actress, musician, king, queen, Animal, Deva, Brahma, mara, preta, hell being, fish, insects …

    MN82: Rathapala Sutta.

    When King asks Arhant rathapala that despite him being healthy, young, wealthy why did he decided to become monk.

    Then he describes the dukkhā that cannot be stopped by anyone at all.

    *Dhamma summary -1:*
    There is no true ownership in world.

    (Who has been able to keep anything with death? even when alive one keeps doing saṅkhāra to keep possessions from decaying, even one’s merits are subject to exhaustion)

    *Dhamma summary – 2:*
    There is no true protection for anyone in world.

    (can you stop death of someone, if you were to fall ill can someone share your pain?)

    *Dhamma summary – 3:*
    This world is insatiable, unfulfilling.

    No matter how much senses pleasures one has, one never ever gets lasting satisfaction ever.

    *Dhamma summary – 4:*

    This world is swept away; it is not lasting; it doesn’t endure;

    Is there anyone who doesn’t get weak with old age? Who doesn’t ever get helath trouble – illness?

    I don’t think there would be so much delight in pleasure of world if we all honestly knew that we cannot stop suffering of our parents, our parents cannot stop suffering we have. Brother cannot help sister, sister cannot help brother, you cannot help relatives, relatives cannot help you in suffering that buddha talks about.

    This doesn’t mean we all abandone the things and go in jungle and do some sort of meditation or chanting or some woodoo thing.

    But, by accepting the truth, there is actually a greater possibility of helping each other out. Being more compassionate towards each other.

    Because it is not just me or you, who suffers, it is everyone. (The Buddhist dukkhā)

    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    Attachment is not problem.

    Because, when you have attachment, you work towards that goal/object to achieve it.

    You should definitely have attachment to objects that give happiness.

    But, for your own complete happiness without even shred of pain in it, you need to attach to and work towards such object which can give you just that.

    So, Problem is wrong kind of attachment.

    When you attach to object which are not in your complete control, unsatisfactory, not worth pursuing, unfruitful, meaningless, essenceless, so will be the result.

    You will be unhappy and unsatisfied, *eventually*.

    But, if you attach to objects which are to your complete liking, under your control that is kind of search that is useful and gives long term happiness.

    You will be happy *eventually*.

    So, attach to right kind of objects.

    Don’t blame attachment. Blame wrong attachment, praise right attachment.

    But, you will start to understand what is right and wrong kind of attachment, when you have right view of things in this world of 31 realms.

    Poison is not a problem.
    Drinking it is.

    Hot pan is not problem.
    Touching hot pan is problem.

    Someone telling you that pan is hot is not a problem. You should be grateful to such person. Because now that you know it is hot and painful, you won’t touch it.

    Problem would rather arise, if there was no sign on hot pan, that said this is “hot pan”, don’t touch it.

    This touch is attachment with either greed or hatred.

    Origin of attachment is thinking that object that you have attached to can give you permanent *lasting* happiness. This is part of ignorance.

    Attachment to objects with Aniccā nature, happens out of ignorance that those objects are Aniccā, not niccā as you think.

    If something is bad for your health and doctor says not to consume it and you consume it anyways, then that consuming is a problem. Not that thing in itself.

    If the bench you liked was painted recently,
    when you try to seat on it,
    would problem arise when there is sign that says “painted”
    or
    when there is no such sign?

    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    Unedited notes taken at moment of insight:

    Birth is dukkha, illness is dukkha, old age is dukkha, death is dukkha. Not having/meeting liked is dukkhā, Meeting/having unliked is dukkhā. In short not having what one likes is dukkhā. PañcaUpādānaKhandha is origin of dukkhā.

    ×-×-×-×-×

    By understanding the first noble truth the origin of dukkha must be understood.

    Dukkha arises due to having PañcaUpādānaKhandha for saṅkhata with Aniccā nature. That is gist of this whole truth.

    Now, why are the internal and external Rūpa of all kinds Aniccā?

    If internal Rūpa were niccā (as per one’s desire, wishes), we could say that let senses (which are what internal Rūpa are) be always fulfilled, yet, despite putting so much effort (let alone the wishing) for their fulfilment, we are always left unsatisfied, unfulfilled, helpless state. Because we cannot desire what we have And we have never been able to have what we desire. Let’s say this statement is false, then tell me, what have you found in this unfathomably long sansarā that you can claim is according to your own liking completely and not only it is niccā but also you are able to keep it.

    Permanent unending happiness, bliss, pleasure, rapture, joy is what everyone desires. No one is whole world can rightly claim that they are doing saṅkhāra for having Suffering, not for happiness. It is altogether a different matter, however, that happiness in this world is first conditional and second too momentarily/fleeting/brief/short etc.

    Due to the happiness in this world being conditional, one must be CONSTANTLY making conditions to make sure that one will have his future happiness, if not, one will be grief struck and distraught.

    So, this constantly working to have happiness is first kind of dukkhā that one must face.

    Not having what one desire after saṅkhāra dukkhā

    Not being able to keep what one desire after doing saṅkhāra

    There are also two type of paths to happiness.

    One is worldly happiness. We all know about worldly happiness. worldly happiness is defined by constant “chase” behind it. It is something we have ran behind for unfathomable long sansarā, yet where is that happiness? Isn’t this happiness (worldly happiness) like Mirage, you constantly running behind it, and in many cases to do get to this Mirage unlike Mirage in dessert, yet, one has never been able to keep it to one’s liking.

    Another is kind of happiness that is completely mutually exclusive to worldy happiness. Biggest benifit of this this happiness is that once it is achieved it doesn’t require any further future maintenance.

    It is truly according to one’s wishes. One can not ever lost it due to any reason. There is not even ounce of physical or mental suffering in it. It is permanent unending.

    However, as this two types of happiness are mutually exclusive. One cannot have his foot in both of this happiness completely. Before understanding the message of buddha one is constantly standing on worldly happiness,

    It is not that permanent happiness cannot be had by anyone. Anyone in this world can have permanent happiness. If only they chose to cultivate the causes that leads to permanent happiness.

    First observation: this truth is not about feeling of suffering. it is about constantly present (inherent) problem of dukkhā.

    Dukkha is removable suffering. Not unstoppable/unpreventable suffering.

    It is removable, because it has originated from the causes. With removal of the causes leading to dukkhā, dukkha ceases. So, suffering is NOT inevitable if causes are removed for that suffering. For example, If one removes the causes for birth in human realm, all the dukkha one has to face in human realm can be instantly eliminated. Even better would be to remove the causes permanently, for permanent stopping of any suffering.

    Now, old age and illness mostly applies to animal and human realm. This two realms are most prone to suffering caused by

    Suffering is visible both here and now and suffering to come can also be easily predicated for future lives.

    Suffering here and now: three kinds of dukkha in human realm.

    Suffering in future: first is being born in apāyā. Second is again the insatiable nature of both internal and external Rūpa of any kind ranging from the most dense rupa of niraya to most subtle kind of Rupa in arūpāvacara Brahma realms. All are subject to

    Analysis: direct dukkha, indirect second or third order effects of that dukkha. Niraya, human and any higher realm dukkha. Saṅkhata vs living being dukkha, Aniccā embedded in everything, origin of dukkha PañcaUpādānaKhandha.

    All saṅkhata with dukkhā characteristic always makes us helpless at the end. Because we do them for happiness. We do saṅkhāra for this saṅkhata in hopes that we will have HAPPINESS. Noone wants this happiness to end. Yet, it always inevitably unstoppably goes away. Making us helpless in the end. Either of internal Rūpa or either external rupa will go into viparinama state. This change can be gradual (getting old in case of living beings and getting decayed in case of any non living saṅkhata) OR they can have sudden unexpected change in their state (sudden illness, sudden untimely death in case of living beings and sudden unexpected rapid change in case of any non living saṅkhata.) Leaving us helpless in end always. Either of this two type of change must happen to everything.

    So, this is nature of suffering INHERENT in world. It is independent of ourself, our actions. Because it is inevitable unstoppable suffering.

    Buddha goes as far as to say that world is indeed anchored in suffering. Why? Because, laws of nature are such that achieving permanent happiness in this world of 31 realms is impossible task, an uphill battle.

    YET, we do not have to experience this suffering. Just because, ALL worldly objects are filled with suffering doesn’t mean we all have to experience suffering through them.

    For example, if you knew the pan that is kept on stove is very hot, would you touch it?

    Just like that if you can understand this much about the nature of worldly objects in world. How they have inherent dukkha nature in them, would you embrace them?

    And our problem is just this,
    we need to understand just this much.

    First we should be able to understand how worldly objects are like hot pan.

    Second we need to understand that just because a hot pan is in front of us, it doesn’t cause us suffering. It is when we touch it, that it leads to painful feelings. Here, touching hot pan means the tanha, desire to experience worldly objects. This tanha/craving is through either greed or hatred. Greed is more Fundamental, we want to have good part of worldly objects without their corresponding bad part (which inevitably comes up). We arise hatred when the “supposedly” good state of object inevitably turns to “bad” state.

    Example. A very simple but illuminating example, would be about aging. One would not want to have decayed sense faculties, one would like to have faculties of young men, but, no one in world can have it to their own liking. However, one can stop having the human body in first place, that would automatically eliminate the suffering that comes consequently due to having human body. How would one do that? By removing the causes leading to birth of human body.

    It must be mentioned that this are just narrow examples, but, the suffering characteristic is there in everything.

    If someone were to say attachment is what leads to suffering, he would be wrong. Because, attachment does not lead to suffering, it is attachment to objects with nature of suffering that leads to suffering. If one were to attach to object that leads to true happiness they would not be suffering. So, it is not as much as problem of attachment as to it is problem of what we are attaching to.

    We all want to have something which is niccā. That is we want to have something to our complete liking. That is why we device all shorts of methods and tricks to make ourselves happy. Going so far as to do various very very immoral kinds actions, all in our quest to happiness. (Harming others either physically or mentally. Lying, killing, stealing, beating, violence, corruption)

    yet that is something utterly impossible. You don’t have to be Sisyphus. All Sisyphus can do is rolling the stones again and again. Yet, you have choice to change the way you approach this quets of Happiness.

    If you were to run behind the kind of happiness that doesn’t change, doesn’t deteriorate with time, doesn’t go away once achieved, which js completely to your liking all the time, will you not want that kind of happiness ? Would not that be much better kind of happiness then the kind of happiness we constantly chase behind.

    Quest for Sensual pleasures is bitter at beginning and end, sweet at the infinitesimal moment at the middle. Effort of acquiring sensual pleasures is suffering, sense faculties not fulfilled by such happiness even after getting it, is not to our complete liking either.

    If you cannot have something the way you wish, is it niccā or Aniccā?

    If you cannot have the good part of something without the bad part that comes with it, is it niccā or Aniccā?

    So, becuse you cannot have good part without bad part, that is what Aniccā is. Not to liking. If it were completely niccā, than we would be able to have good part without bad part in any worldly object. We would not suffer, but, because they are Aniccā we suffer after touching them.

    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    When dasa kusala are done without at least basic understanding of buddh dhamma, i.e. Paṭicca Samuppāda + four noble truths + tilakkhana, they are just puñña abhisankhara.

    When done with understanding of dhamma they are just kusāla saṅkhāra not kusāla abhisaṅkhāra.

    There is no such thing as kusāla abhisaṅkhāra. Abhisaṅkhāra either puñña or Apuñña, are done out of ignorance.

    With understanding of dhamma to minimum threshold of sottapana anugami, slowly kusāla mula Paṭicca Samuppāda is cultivated, leading one to nibbanā through removal/reduction of tanha (attachment either through hate/greed/ignorance). This cycle is initiated with kusāla mula saṅkhāra,they are special kind of saṅkhāra.

    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    Anyone want to see the Drawbacks of attaching to pleasent and unpleasant feelings that arises based on sense contacts? What is wrong with pursuing pleasent and unpleasant feelings from senses?

    Pleasent feelings are pleasent in remaining,
    Unpleasant when they pass away.

    Unpleasant feelings are unpleasant in remaining, but pleasent when they pass away.

    All things have pleasent and unpleasant part. Either is meaningless/anattā/unsubstantial/unfruitful/untrue.

    This is right view.

    I learnt this from sutta I can’t recall right now.

    One who is attached to pleasent feelings, feels unpleasant when pleasent feelings pass away from sense contact against his wishes. This will always happen.

    One who is attached to unpleasant feelings via hatred suffers when unpleasant feelings arises through sense contact. Becaus one want them to go away, but they don’t go away on one’s wishes until causes for arising of those unpleasant feelings are removed.

    One who likes pleasent feelings cannot stop pleasent feelings from going away, he cannot maintain pleasent feeling as he likes.

    One who hates unpleasant feelings, cannot stop unpleasant feelings from arising, he/she cannot remove unpleasant feeling as he/she wishes.

    Now that all of you who contemplate this and rightly decide that feelings are useless. You would want to stop feelings right?

    What is ultimate cause for arising of feelings?

    Feelings cannot arise without sense contact.

    What is ultimate cause for arising of contact?

    formation of senses.
    Without senses, sense objects cannot create contact at senses.

    What is cause for arising of senses?

    It is birth.
    Without birth the senses cannot be formed.

    What is cause for birth?
    Avijjā is cause for birth. (Avijjā → tanha → upādāna → bhava → jati → whole mass of Suffering.)

    What is Avijjā?
    Avijjā is lack of paññā.

    What is paññā?
    I explained in all the above posts in group.

    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    Detachment cannot be forced.

    However detachment can be effected by Cultivating causes for it.

    Causes for detachment is paññā. Which is wisdom. Not bookish knowledge. Applying the learning to be free from real life suffering. Actual experiential freedom from suffering.

    Now, What is paññā? → Taking wise decision with right understanding → What is right understanding? → seeing drawbacks of relying on six senses and the corresponding six sense objects for happiness. *Why drawbacks but not benifits should be seen*, because by default we see the benifits of all senses and objects, but, we don’t pay attention to the long term results of this quest to derive happiness by senses → what are drawbacks? → I explained drawbacks in all above posts.

    Most important problem with all of us, who have still incomplete paññā is that we still don’t see either the whole picture of world.

    *That is what I said repeatedly in above posts. Problem is seeing “hot pan” as “pan which won’t hurt” you, if you touch it. But, that’s is ofcourse wrong. It is impossible that may you be able to touch hot pan AND it may not burn you. It is outright foolish. Yet, by embracing six senses and corresponding six senses objects, this is what we are doing.*

    This “hot pan” is sansarā with six senses/six kinds of sense objects.

    “Touching it” means having hate or greed for this objects.

    Why we see “hot pan” as “pan that won’t burn”?

    Because of ignorance.

    What is Ignorance? Not having paññā? What is paññā? Mentioned earlier.

    We fail to see that it is our quest to derive the happiness from this world, which as consequence brings all the suffering that one experiences in this life, or will experience in future life if one doesn’t stop touching the hot pan.

    Please note that Buddhist path is path of wisdom, analysis, investigations, discernment.

    *ONE SHOULD NOT HAVE DATA SELECTION BIAS ON PATH.*

    One cannot collect data that supports the Buddhist worldview. One must observe all the fact and then see whether buddhism makes any sense.

    FOR EXAMPLE. Just because you see all the children around you who are poor, you should not and can not say that this is why world is suffering. All this suffering is suffering, but buddha talks about very particular type of suffering. It is not mundane everyday life suffering. However, this mundane suffering is automatically covered in Buddhist view of suffering. But, Buddhist view of what is suffering is much wider in scope. I have tried to explain this in above posts.

    Please, read and contemplate.

    Even if you don’t see six senses and corresponding objects as suffering directly, you will see that they are not exactly the best instrument for those seeking happiness without even trace of suffering in it.

    Blind faith and beliefs can not lead anywhere.

    Actually noone should even try to give up sense pleasures or anything,

    WITHOUT HONEST INVESTIGATION FIRST.

    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    Why do we do anything at all in world?

    Can any of us point out anything that we don’t do for our happiness (or for sake of happiness of people around us)?

    Even a single thing?

    Yet, Is this quest successful?

    If not why?

    What did go wrong in quest to achieve worldly happiness?

    ….

    Have your parents, partners, siblings, relatives, friends or anyone else you have meet in your life, have they been able to achieve COMPLETE happiness, happiness that is unbroken, cannot be affected by anything else?

    Think…

    If you wanted to study Masters in Physics, what should be minimum qualification of your teacher for this course?

    Junior school?

    Middle school?

    High school?

    Bachelor’s in physics would work for sure, right?

    No.

    You would want someone who has done at least masters in physics, to make you understand masters level course in physics.

    Now, coming to the question of family and friends, have any of them been successful in achieving *permanent* happiness?

    If not, would you expect them to teach you how to go about achieving *permanent* happiness?

    Would you take thier advice on such matter?

    Think …

    They have done nothing wrong by motivating us for achieving worldly goals. Because, from their perspective that is what a correct path is. They are guiding us on correct path from *THEIR ERSPECTIVE.*

    Yet, if they have not been able to achieve permanent happiness despite their 20, 30, 40 years of hard work and struggle.

    What does that tell you?

    Think …

    ———

    Quoted from jethavanarama Buddhist monastery english sermons series video:

    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    – what would you do when you lose what you have build with so much hard work?

    – happiness achived through senses always require one to do sankhara of some sort

    – worldly happiness is not natural, ever present. Natural state.

    – it has strings attached to it

    – it is conditional

    – which means if one doesn’t fulfill it, one would be not happy.

    – that is consequence of being dependent on external things for happiness

    – that means one constantly needs to do something in order to have happiness

    – worldly belief: “We must work HARD in order to be happy” how foolish. Why would one fight impossible battle?

    if worldly happiness is unnatrual, fabricated, artificial then as buddha said, “world is anchored on suffering”, suffering is natural state of world, not happiness.

    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    How in the sansarā have we come to expect something that is literally impossible? How have we come to have such irrational impossible expectations?

    Buddha once said that No one would be able to know true nature of world with defiled viññana. (Only completely purified at Arhant stage.)

    ————-

    It is as if we have overlooked what is in front of us all along.

    I mean, even though this human body has come into existence due to myriad of causes all aligning. Even if one step had failed, the human body would not develope.

    We wish to keep it young and not want it to grow old, As if it is under our control and so truly ours. We are in outright denial. Want proof? Ask someone around yourself, ask them if anyone wants to actually get old or get ill or get declined sense faculties, ask them if any of them will get it. This is body that would become completely useless and lifeless, if it didn’t had one extremely small part that cannot be even detected. (Gandhabba)

    All things keeps changing as per causes, only to eventually die. (It can be either external six Rūpa OR five passada Rūpa+ haddaya vatthu) all are subject to cessation with removal of cause. There is no true ownership of anything for anyone. All this delusion not only keeps us in world where we not only get never complete satisfaction but also gives us endless suffering. How long do you want to keep building sandcastles?

    Only a fool would embrace the world with defiled viññana in hopes of having complete niccā in this burning place where everything is Aniccā. Only a fool would cling to PañcaKhandha.

    To be honest all of us have been fool for so long. Even Bodhisattva until that night of his enlightenment. He won four noble truths after his unfathomably long quest to end suffering COMPLETELY.

    Understanding dukkhā, arising of dukkhā, cessation and path to Stopping of all this suffering is all that there is remaining for us …

    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    Rarity of what you have right now.

    Kamma Bijā for human Bhavā✅

    Human Bhavā✅ (extremely rare)

    Suitable parents✅ (rare)

    Their union✅

    Mother in her time✅

    Conceive ✅

    Buddha sasana ✅ (one in hundreads of eons)

    Association with kalayana mitta with true dhamma ✅ (rare)

    Tihetuka birth ✅ (rare)

    Understanding buddha dhamma to at least basic level ✅

    Only then suffering ends permanently.

    Even one thing fails in whole process,
    No end of sansarā

    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    Buddhist approach goes again flow in the senses that it cures the root cause of problem (mind → tanha) rather than addressing the symptoms.

    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    Saṅkhata are expected in particular way. One does saṅkhāra dukkha to maintain saṅkhata.

    Internal Rūpa are expected in certain way. One does saṅkhāra dukkha to maintain senses.

    Eventually one of them, either senses or saṅkhata will fail.
    Either one of this dominoes must fall. Any of them cannot be maintained as per one’s liking, as long as one wants.

    In some realms senses can be maintained but not saṅkhata.

    In some realms, saṅkhata can be maintained but not senses.

    And finally most of births are in realm, where neither senses are to liking and neither saṅkhata are to liking.

    Would you want to embrace such conditional temporary limited happiness?

    Or should you change the approach to your own long term happiness?

    LayDhammaFollower
    Participant

    Another way to look at it, is that niccā state and Aniccā state are mutually exclusive to each other.

    One cannot have niccā state by staying in this world of 31 realms, by being born anywhere. Only when one is not born one would have niccā state, e.g. one has nibbanā, that is only true complete niccā state.

    However, as long as one craves the objects with Aniccā nature one will born somewhere in 31 realm, and think about it how can someone who craves for objects with Aniccā nature would ever have true happiness/sukha/niccā/atta in this world? By having PañcaUpādānaKhandha one would only have suffering and suffering alone.

    (Tanha → upādāna → bhava → jati → origin of whole mass of suffering.)

    AND craving for any object from our own pañcakKhanda would be futile. Because our pañcakKhanda can never have any object with niccā state. Reason being nibbanā is something not experienced by six senses, hence there is no record/pañcakKhanda of its experience in our memory records.

    Our pañcakKhanda only has objects with Aniccā nature, so craving for any of that is meaningless, because one would not only not have any happiness due to PañcaUpādānaKhandha but one would have much more dukkha in form of saṅkhāra, viparinama, dukkhā dukkhā as long as one has PañcaUpādānaKhandha. Without removal of PañcaUpādānaKhandha suffering cannot be ever stopped.

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