[cubibobi]

Hi all. First of all, Happy New Year to everyone! I hope everyone had a 2023 filled with Dhamma.

This is a minor point unrelated to the main ideas of this thread, but I just want to sort out a couple of Pali terms.

There are various statements like:

“The puthujanas who reside most of the time in the apayas …”

My understanding is that the term puthujjana means an average (anariya) HUMAN and that “satta” means an average being in general (including a puthujjana).

… so the statement should be:
“The sattās who reside most of the time in the apayā …”?

Best,
Lang

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Yash RS

[cubibobi]

A while back, I read that mudita was sympathetic joy — being happy in the success of others.

 

I remember this post about ariya metta bhavana:

5. Ariya Metta Bhāvana (Loving Kindness Meditation)

#6 says that all four Brahma Vihāra are cultivated with ariya metta bhavana

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dosakkhayo

[cubibobi]

Thank you, Lal.

So subha is just one word that cannot be broken down further.

With subha meaning “fruitful/good”, I thought it made sense to think of the word in terms of su + bhava (good bhava), and that subha saññā is the saññā that bhava is good (fruitful).

That’s taking it a bit too far, right?

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LayDhammaFollower

[cubibobi]

Dear all,

I’d like to revisit this thread to ask a question about the breakdown of the word “asubha.”

Is asubha = a + su + bhava ?

Thank you!
Lang

[cubibobi]

Thank you, Lal! Your response shed much light and made me think of a few things.

First, Aniduan wrote: “Upon Google search the word Sanatana Dharma comes up as eternal truth in Hinduism”

I thought that he had a typo and left out the “n”, and thus I thought of the above Dhammapada verse. This is because I have seen only this kind of translation for the verse;

It is not by hatred that hatred
subsides here anytime.
but by non-hatred they subside.
this is an eternal law.

The last line is always translated as:

this is the timeless Truth
this is the eternal law
etc.

I suppose this is another example of conventional meaning vs deeper meaning. I have not seen sanantano explained this way — as the end of “san” — although it makes a lot of sense, based on what we have been learning here.

Another question about the Pali breakdown: it seems like “anti” (in sammanti) and “anta” (in sanantano) are the same meaning components (the end) in different forms?

Related to the above, I was reading the latest post: Uncovering the Suffering-Free (Pabhassara) Mind

Under number 12, we have the phrase “sīti bhavissanti“, meaning “will be fully cooled down“. Does bhavissanti break down to “bhava” + “anti“?

[cubibobi]

“sanantana” appears in Verse 5 of Yamaka Vagga of the Dhammapada:

“Na hi verena verāni
sammantī’dha kudācanam
Averena ca sammanti
esa dhammo sanantano“

[cubibobi]

Thank you, Lal!

“It is just that the “sweetness” or “saltiness” in not a vedana but a “sanna”.”

This makes a lot of sense!

So, the nature of “sweetness”, “saltiness”, etc. is the “Guṇa” part of “Kāma Guṇa“. If we were to invent a phrase, can we say that an arahant has “Guna Sanna“? (with guna implied to apply to the kama loka).

If we say “Kāma Guṇa” then the “Kāma” part implies some kind of attachment, and not mere “qualities” or “characteristics”, correct?

[cubibobi]

I was rereading these posts and had similar thoughts as TGS.

Up to now, I always thought that Kāma Guṇa and somanassa do arise in an arahant, which make a lot of sense to me.

Under #29933 above, Lal wrote:
I have confirmed that many times. Yes, An Arahant would taste that meal to be tasty.

I do remember Lal mentioning that many times, plus a few other examples, such as one about a beautiful woman.

 

Kāma Guna, Kāma, Kāma Rāga, Kāmaccandha

#9. of this post says:
A beautiful woman will be seen as such by anyone from an average person to an Arahant.

All of the above make sense to me since I take “guṇa” to mean just a quality shared by most in a certain group of human beings, as stated in #2 of the post:

2.
“While there could be minor differences, all humans experience the same basic “qualities” or “kāma guṇa” through the five physical senses. Even when one becomes an Arahant, that will not change”.

My reasoning was that arahants still have functional indriya that can discern guṇa such as tastiness of food or beauty in a person (or a scenic place, etc.). I can see somanassa arising in an arahant due to such discernment, as in #5 of the post:

Kāma Guṇa – Origin of Attachment (Tanhā)

#5
However, “tiṇṇaṃ saṅgati phasso, phassa paccayā vedanā” in #2 above does not occur in an Arahant. Even though an Arahant will experience sōmanassa vēdanā due to kāma guṇa, an Arahant would NOT get attached to that “pleasant/sensual feeling.”

It’s just that that kind of discernment will never lead to Kāma, Kāma Rāga, Kāmaccandha, or tanha in an arahant. In an average person it does.

Now,

#45548
“Kāma Guṇa do not arise in an Arahant.”

“Somanssa and domanassa are both created by the mind based on Kāma Guṇa. Thus, they do not arise in an Arahant.”

This is confusing, but that’s probably what Lal is working in his next post.

Thank you!
Lang

[cubibobi]

I read this post on ‘Kāma Guna, Kāma, Kāma Rāga, Kāmaccanda’ quite a while back, and reread it after reading this thread.

From this, I take kāma to mean “liking kāma guna somewhat”, residual liking left in an anagami.

If this is so, is it also correct to say this about the stronger forms of liking:

kāma rāga = rāga for kāma guna
kāmaccanda = ccanda (iccha + anda) for kāma guna

Thank you!

Lang

[cubibobi]

I doubt that I am at or even near the sotapanna stage, but I’ve always thought that the understanding of anicca, dukkha, anatta gets deeper with each magga phala and culminates at the arahant stage.

So, when you say:

“… I can’t truly believe in Sotapanna’s understanding of anicca / anatta “couldn’t be improved upon”.

… you are right.

A sotapanna‘s understanding of anicca, dukkha, anatta is improved with each magga phala and complete at the arahant stage.

I thought I have seen this in a number of places here at PD, but I did a quick search and saw only one post that alludes to this:

Sankhāra, Kamma, Kamma Bīja, Kamma Vipāka

Under #5, it says:

… Here wisdom means comprehension of the true nature; it starts with getting rid of 10 micchā diṭṭhi and then grows as one understands anicca, dukkha, and anatta to higher levels. Wisdom culminates at the Arahant stage.

<br />
How does the understanding of anicca, dukkha, anatta improve with each stage of magga phala?

I remember reading something like this; you can do a search to verify (I’m not getting hits right now):

A sotapanna understands anicca, dukkha, anatta to the extent that he will not do apayagami kamma to enjoy the pleasures of kama, and he still likes to own things that brings such pleasure.

A sakadagami enjoys pleasures but no longer wishes to own things that bring them.

An anagami is no longer attached to kama (freed from the kama loka).

An arahant is not attached to any realm (complete understanding of anicca, dukkha, anatta)

 

Best,

Lang

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Jorg

[cubibobi]

• Furthermore, if anyone has supporting strong evidence for the Buddha was born in India, I don’t mind such information posted here. We need to keep an open mind.

—–

I remember seeing this a while back, which looks convincing to me.

Lumbini, the Birthplace of the Lord Buddha
https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/666

 

Best,

Lang

[cubibobi]

— From Lal:”The apple that you saw is NOT the same as the apple itself. It is just an image of the apple captured by your eyes”.

The Bāhiya Sutta says something like: “seeing is just a trace of seeing, hearing is just a trace of hearing, …” (“diṭṭhe diṭṭhamattaṃ bhavissati, sute sutamattaṃ bhavissati, …”

These are different ways of expressing the same concept, correct?

– From TripleGemStudent
“I don’t know anything about IT, but what’s the name of the database system that works like your example?”

When I wrote that I was thinking of the Oracle Database Management System, since I know something about it. For this system, before it creates or updates a piece of data, it first writes (or logs) the instruction on how to write or update the data.

Eventually the system does write the data itself (when it is convenient to do so), but it is actually the logging mechanism that is critical.

 

Thank you!
Lang

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TripleGemStudent

[cubibobi]

“To emphasize, only the four mental components are preserved in the nāma loka. The rupa loka has only “material things”, Thus, rupakkhandha is NOT preserved.”

—–

An analogy from the IT field may be helpful here. Imagine a database system that works like this:

(1) A user creates a piece of data at time T1.

(2) The system records not the data itself but instruction on how to create that data; let’s say that the instruction consists of four pieces of information.

(3) At a later time T2 the user wants to retrieve that piece of data; the system goes to the instruction at timestamp T1, executes it per the four pieces of information, creates the data, and presents it to the user.

(4) There are no limits to the storage of the instructions.

Thus, the data itself (rupakkhandha) is NOT preserved; what is preserved is the 4-piece instruction (the four mental components) to recreate that data.

I said to imagine such a storage system, but actually there is a database system that works somewhat like this.

Best,
Lang

2 users thanked author for this post.

TripleGemStudent, dosakkhayo

[cubibobi]

“P.S. Taṇhā happens automatically due to “bad gati.” We have control over “upādāna” because that is when we become aware of the “attachment.” Thus, if we are mindful, we can realize we have started cultivating abhisankhara and stop it. That is the basis of Ananapasati/Satipatthana!”

Thank you for reminding us of this, i.e. control over upadana. And you emphasized it again in the newest post Anuseti – How Anusaya Grows with Saṅkhāra

#8
Thus, we must stop the process of “anuseti” (cultivating abhisaṅkhāra) as soon as realizing attachment to an ārammaṇa. This is the basis of Ānāpānasati/Satipaṭṭhāna.
…

A number of vipassana/satipatthana retreats out there teach people to focus on the “vedana paccaya tanha” step, the most typical of which is the “vipassana” as taught by S.N. Goenka. This tradition teaches people to scan the body for physical vedana to stop tanha for them.

Thus, they are scanning the wrong things. Instead we should be “scanning” for abhisaṅkhāra, stopping apuññabhisaṅkhāra (at least at the beginning) as soon as we catch them.

Without being exposed to true Dhamma I would still have been doing anapana as breath meditation and vipassana/satipatthana as above.

[cubibobi]

Thank you, Lal.

I was thinking that past pañcakkhandhā is namagotta, and that the upadana part was what created kammic energy.

So, upadana creates new kammic energy. For an arahant, there is no new kammic energy, but there is still past kammic energy.

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