Compilation of my thoughts

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    • #44262
      dosakkhayo
      Participant

      I will use this thread to post my question about Dhamma.

    • #44264
      dosakkhayo
      Participant

      Understanding

      The newest thing about me while learning Pure Dhamma was explaining the memory process in detail. The infinite, eternal, and non-local preservation of information without extra energy revolutionized my thinking. There is no need for energy to remain anidassana/appaṭigha nāma. In contrast, every sankhata needs energy to maintain itself.

      We can tell sankhata is information in a way. For example, a pencil contains not only the basic information that there is it but also information on how rubber, coal, and wood became pencils. Over time, the physical preservation of such information becomes impossible. However, mental information(pancakkhanda)is eternal.

      It means there are two different types of information. The first type is sankhata, the first information. The second type is namagotta, the meta information. If the former is the information that there was a pencil there, the latter is the information that I saw that there was a pencil there.

      The first type of information is not stored forever. But the second type is. It means the mind can generate meta-information, which is infinite and eternal.

      Practical application

      The meta-information is infinite and eternal. It means that all the happiness in samsara is not new for me. Every kind of it has already been experienced. If I choose to continue the rebirth process, it’s not new at all because it’s the choice I made before already. But if I decide to stop the rebirth process, it is new. So the only new thing that can be done is the complete elimination of defilement.

    • #44438
      dosakkhayo
      Participant

      There are three layers of suffering: dukkha dukkha, viparinama dukkha, and sankhara dukkha.

      I arranged them in deep order.

      The first step is to understand the law of kamma.

      The punna(good) kamma can give us happiness(good vipaka).

      The akusala(bad) kamma can give us suffering(bad vipaka).

      So we can see that the suffering is due to the bad kamma.

      It means you’ll pay for what you do, good or bad.

      But we don’t need Buddha Dhamma to know it.

      The second step is to understand mortality.

      Everything born must die one day.

      Naked we come into the world, and naked we leave it.

      No matter how good it is, it will be over one day.

      But we don’t need Buddha Dhamma to know it, either.

      The third step is to understand the danger of samsara.

      When we understand sankhara dukkha, we understand how to chunk the two previous dukkha.

      We suffer when we make an effort inconsistent with nature’s laws. (dukkha dukkha)

      For example, they believe that evil can cause happiness, that they can achieve happiness without providing the right conditions, or that an inappropriate way is appropriate.

      It is linked to ‘aññathā(unexpected change of sankhata)’. (aññathattaṁ saṅkhatalakkhaṇa)

      Unpredictable changes make it difficult to grasp the conditions that must be prepared to achieve happiness.

      This creates a time gap between happiness and effort.

      Efforts to narrow this gap forcefully harm other beings(akusala kamma).

      And someday, it gives us bad vipaka.

      Therefore, all efforts inconsistent with the laws of nature must lead to suffering.

      Furthermore, we suffer when we make an effort consistent with nature’s laws too. (viparinama dukkha)

      Even if we do all good deeds and birth in the good realms, we can’t help ourselves from running up against death. (vayo saṅkhatalakkhaṇa)

      So, all efforts consistent with the laws of nature must lead to suffering.

      This is a dead-end ally in samsara. As long as we think that the choice to continue samsara is a good thing, we must meet it.

      As long as you try to find happiness in samsara, there must be suffering. (sankhara dukkha)

      This is the essence of Buddha Dhamma.

      That is why the sankhara dukkha is “the great danger

      Ne 5 “tasmā saṅkhāradukkhatā dukkhaṁ lokassāti katvā dukkhamassa mahabbhayanti”

       

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    • #44439
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Excellent. 

      1. The last verse captures the essence. “Bhaya” is ‘danger,” and “mahabbhaya” (mahā + bhaya) is “great danger.”

      2. An average human perceives the cultivation of (abhi)saṅkhāra as “pleasure.” An extreme example is raping a woman seeking sensory gratification. That involves vaci (planning/thinking) and kaya (implementing) abhisankhara. It could be enjoyable at that time.

      • However, he will pay for that brief gratification for millions of years. Unimaginable but true!
      • That is “the great danger.”

      P. S.

      3. It is a good idea to gradually contemplate the danger of even excessive sensory pleasures (such as craving tasty foods, music, etc.) See “Son’s Flesh” which is the translation of the “Puttamaṁsa Sutta (SN 12.63).”

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    • #44441
      dosakkhayo
      Participant

      +) If one makes sankhara, it makes sankhata: manomaya kaya, dhamma rupa, etc. (uppada)

      Lal, I think the above analysis might enhance the value of the post Introduction -2 – The Three Categories of Suffering with compactness. How about using it?

    • #44444
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Good idea. Thank you!

      I added the following to the post:

      13. The “Vicayahāravibhaṅga” in  the Petakopadesa states the following: “Saṅkhāradukkhatāya pana loko anupādisesāya nibbānadhātuyā muccati, tasmā saṅkhāradukkhatā dukkhaṁ lokassāti katvā dukkhamassa mahabbhayanti.”

      • The meaning is “If saṅkhāra-dukkha can be overcome, one will get to Nibbāna. Therefore, saṅkhāra-dukkha is the one with great danger (mahabbhaya or mahā + bhaya.)”
      • An average human perceives the cultivation of (abhi)saṅkhāra as “pleasure.” An extreme example is raping a woman seeking sensory gratification. That involves vaci (planning/thinking) and kāya (implementing) abhisaṅkhāra. It could be enjoyable at that time. However, he will pay for that brief gratification for millions of years. Unimaginable but true!
      • Thus, any such “pleasure” is short-lived (vipariṇāma dukkha) and will bring unimaginable dukkha-dukkha in the future. One must “see” the “hidden suffering in sensory pleasures” before getting to the Sotapanna stage. 
      • Until then, humans see the cultivation of (abhi)saṅkhāra as “pleasure.”
    • #44480
      LayDhammaFollower
      Participant

      Good insights, Dosakkhayo!

    • #44509
      dosakkhayo
      Participant

      Ragakkhayo Nibbanan.

      There are three types of raga: kama raga, rupa raga, arupa raga.

      To put it simply, PS describes how raga turns into kaya.

      If you have yet kama raga, you will be born in kama loka. (Kama kaya)

      Samely, rupa and arupa raga gives you (a)rupavacara kaya.

      So, the continuation of samsara is to continue with getting kaya.

      As long as someone thinks kaya is a good thing(have raga), the creation of kaya doesn’t stop.

      Sakkaya ditthi is sath + kaya. So put together, it means samsara is good for oneself.

      Kaya comes from raga. Ragakkhayo is the end of kaya. That is why there is no kaya in Nibbana. 

      Also, if there is no kaya(manomaya), there can not be citta too. So, there is no citta or cetasika in Nibbana.

    • #44511
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Sakkaya ditthi can also be analyzed as “sa + kaya” or “my + kaya.”

      • But it is neither mine nor someone else’s. It arises due to causes and conditions (Paticca Samuppada.)
      • Many suttas explain that “this body is not yours; not someone else’s either.” It is a “hetu/phala.”

        See, for example, “Natumha Sutta (SN 12.37).”

       

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    • #44516
      cubibobi
      Participant

      Until then, humans see the cultivation of (abhi)saṅkhāra as “pleasure”.

       

      Is this “pleasure” also described by the word Assāda, as in Assāda, Ādīnava, Nissarana?

      Fascinating thread with much insight. Thank you!

    • #44518
      Lal
      Keymaster

      “Is this “pleasure” also described by the word Assāda, as in Assāda, Ādīnava, Nissarana?”

      Yes. That is indeed the critical point.

      • Buddha never denied that there are “pleasurable things” in this world. That is why beings are trapped in the rebirth process. They look at only the “immediate gratification” (Assāda) offered by sensory pleasures. 
      • The “previously unheard teachings of the Buddha” is that those “pleasurable things” have “hidden suffering” (Ādīnava.)
      • When one comprehends the Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana, one can see how such Assāda leads to Ādīnava. See “Understanding the Terms in Paṭicca Samuppāda.”
      • That is when one becomes a Sotapanna/Sotapanna Anugami and starts striving for Nissarna,  which means “stop traveling the rebirth process.” 
      • There is a series of posts onAssāda, Ādīnava, Nissarana.”

      See, for example, “Baḷisa Sutta (SN 17.2),” where the Buddha compared those who have not comprehended Buddha Dhamma to a fish who only sees the bait as “pleasure.” They do not see the “hidden suffering” in sensory pleasures. Until they see it, they will be trapped in the rebirth process (samsara.)

      • In that sutta, the Buddha compared sensory pleasures to “Māra’s hook.”
    • #45065
      dosakkhayo
      Participant

      Do I Have “A Mind” That Is Fixed and “Mine”?

      8. When an EM wave (kiraṇa) packet arrives at the cakkhu pasāda, it hits the hadaya vatthu and “transfers” that visual information about the tree to the mind. The mind is born momentarily during this transition for the duration of that signal.

      This is what is meant by “cakkhunca Paṭicca rupeca uppajjāti cakkhu viññānam.”

      In that context, “cakkhunca Paṭicca rupeca uppajjāti cakkhu viññānam.” shows how to be aware world by indriya.

      But when we see with san, it shows how to be aware world by ayatana.

      The cakkhu become cakkayatana and rupa become rupayatana.

      For example, two people with different tastes read the same book.

      John didn’t like what the main character did at the end. But Mary thought it was the best ending.

      They both read the same letters, but they took them differently.

      So, in this case, we can say that they’re not looking at the same thing.

      This is why rupa ayatana is all personal and mental.

      It is made by the mind and reflects one’s personal preferences(gati, anusaya).

    • #45068
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Yes. That is correct. 

      • An Arahant would see, hear, etc., but not have ayatana since they don’t have anusaya or gati. Thus, there will be no abhisankhara generated based on seeing, hearing, etc.
    • #48554
      dosakkhayo
      Participant

      There are three fetters: sakkaya ditthi, silabbata paramasa, and vicikicca.

      Each of those are not knowing how to deal with correctly raga, dosa, and moha.

      Sakkaya ditthi is the false belief that the consequent pleasure from having raga can be meaningful in some way.

      “When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.”

      “Everything will be Okay.”

      These words are good example of sakkaya ditthi.

      There are three groups in the 10 punna kamma: Dana, Sila, and Bhavana.

      Sila group helps to remove dosa and cultivate adosa.

      But Anariya hasn’t removed silabbata paramasa yet, i.e. they couldn’t see the essence of morality, their sila is not permanent.

      Instead, Ariya saw the essence of morality so silabbata paramasa is gone.

      Then what is the essence of morality?

      How I treat a living being determines how nature treats me as a living being.

      AND, there is no right reason to harm other beings.

      Because nothing is more precious than life.

      One may think like this. “I can swear at him because he broke my stuff, because my stuff is precious.”

      But, nothing is more precious than life.

      The point is that as long as someone has sakkaya ditthi, one day they put something else on life.

      What should I know more broadly? What more information should I collect?

      These questions have nothing to do with understanding the nature of the suffering.

      One should purify one’s mind. What we should do and need to do is that. And it alone is enough to attain Nibbana.

      Until one really comes to this conclusion, one still has vicikicca.

      Think about 10 samyojanas.

      Those can be chunked in three categories.

      Raga categories

      • sakkaya ditthi
      • kama raga
      • rupa raga
      • arupa raga
      • mana

      Dosa categories

      • silabbata paramasa
      • patigha
      • uddacca

      Moha categories

      • vicikicca
      • avijja

      And we can also see that the first item of each list means not knowing how to do ragakkhayo dosakkhayo mohakkhayo, and the rest items mean not doing enough.

      That’s why sotapanna knows the map to the nibbana. Ragakkhayo dosakkhayo and mohakkhayo cover all of the bhavana!

      So we should deal with raga by asubha, dosa by metta, moha by panna.

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by dosakkhayo.
      • #48559
        Gad
        Participant

         

        “Sakkaya ditthi is the false belief that the consequent pleasure from having raga can be meaningful in some way.”

         

        • To be more precise Sakkaya ditthi is the belief in personality. It can take two forms: Sassatta ditthi the belief in an eternal self that will end in a higher or lower realm forever. Present in most religions. The other is uccheda ditthi the belief in a self that is annihilated at death. Sakkaya ditthi can take many forms. However, this belief can say that there is a self that must enjoy sensual pleasures, (Kāma ragā)
    • #48560
      Lal
      Keymaster

      1. Those ideas (Dosakkhayo‘s) about sakkaya ditthi are good but mostly mundane.

      • At the root level, sakkaya ditthi means the view that “pursuing worldly things can bring happiness.” 
      • Once one can see the “big picture of the Buddha” that spans over the rebirth process and the fact that a “suffering-free mind” is hidden under layers of defilements, that view will be eliminated. Sakkaya ditthi will disappear, and the tendency to pursue worldly things will diminish when one comprehends that.
      • I have been discussing that in recent posts and tried to summarize it in the latest post: “Ārammaṇa (Sensory Input) Initiates Critical Processes.”

      2. Silabba Paramasa

      • I may not have discussed “silabbata paramasa” sufficiently. 
      • Paramasa” means a “conviction” that some way of doing things can DEFINITELY get one to the goal.
      • When the goal is to attain Nibbana, “silabbata paramasa” means “following a specific set of precepts/rituals” can get one there. However, while moral conduct is necessary to attain Nibbana, it is NOT sufficient. Nibbana is attained by cultivating wisdom (panna), and morality is a necessary CONDITION.

      3. The various categories of “conditions to attain Nibbana” (seven types of anusaya, ten samyojana, four yogā, four Asava, etc) are discussed in the post “Conditions for the Four Stages of Nibbāna.” To categorize into raga, dosa, moha would be as follows:

      Raga categories:

      • kama raga
      • rupa raga
      • arupa raga

      Dosa categories:

      • patigha
      • uddacca

      Moha categories:

      • sakkaya ditthi
      • vicikicca
      • silabbata paramasa
      • mana
      • avijja

      Under the moha category, sakkaya ditthi, vicikicca, and silabbata paramasa are ditthi (wrong views). Mana (the idea of “me/myself”) and avijja arise due to avijja. Uddacca (“unsettled mind”) could be categorized under avijja or dosa.

      • Of course, everything will eventually be due to avijja!

       

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by Lal.
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      • #48720
        dosakkhayo
        Participant

        I thought about it for a week. And I found out that I was wrong. It meant a lot to me, in a good way. I appreciate your correction.

        • This reply was modified 3 days ago by dosakkhayo.
        • #48722
          Lal
          Keymaster

          You are welcome!

    • #48562
      Gad
      Participant

      I understand that a sotāpanna is said to have eradicated sakkaya ditthi. However, even though a sotāpanna has achieved this, he can still have a strong attachment to kāma ragā. This attachment depends on his gāti, and he may continue to pursue the things of this world. However, he will never commit evil acts to acquire them. I have been considering that belief in the personality might be more appropriate since it eradicates all micchādiṭṭhi. If I have made any mistakes, please correct me. I am still transitioning and learning about many Dhamma concepts that I previously understood in a worldly way. Most of my statements are based on what I learned before I encountered the Puredhamma site. Thank you for sharing the essay Dosakkhayo; it has highlighted my gaps in certain concepts.

    • #48563
      Gad
      Participant

      This is an example of a publication on Sakkaya ditthi.

      SAKKAYA DITTHI: SELF-IDENTIFICATION VIEW IN THERAVADA BUDDHISM

      Sakkaya ditthi is the wrong view that mistakenly identifies with one of the five aggregates of clinging that constitute the Psycho-physical complex described as a being or personality as “self”. 

      There are three possible ways in which self-identification can take place.

      This is mine – due to craving (tanha)

      This I am – due to conceit (mana)

      This is me – due to the wrong view (ditthi)

    • #48564
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Gad wrote: “Sakkaya ditthi is the wrong view that mistakenly identifies with one of the five aggregates of clinging that constitute the Psycho-physical complex described as a being or personality as “self”.”

      • So, a Sotapanna does not have the sense of a “me”? Would not consider the house, car, or anything else as his?
      • #48565
        Gad
        Participant

        No, he still has this wrong perception but he will never fall into the views related to Sakkaya ditthi.

        In the Duthiya Isidatta sutta of the Samyutta Nikaya, it is stated that various other wrong views and the sixty-two wrong views described in the Brahmajala sutta arise due to the presence of sakkaya ditthi and that they do not arise when there is no sakkaya ditthi. The ten other wrong views described in the Duthiya Isidatta sutta are;

        The world is eternal.

        The world is not eternal.

        The world is finite.

        The world is not finite.

        The soul and the body are the same.

        The soul and the body are not the same.

        One exists after death.

        One does not exist after death.

        One both exists and does not exist after death.

        One neither exists nor does not exist after death (6).

        I believe it is this aspect of Sakkaya ditthi that a sotāpanna has eliminated, right?

    • #48572
      Lal
      Keymaster

      You are still quoting standard phrases: “No, he still has this wrong perception but he will never fall into the views related to Sakkaya ditthi.” That does not say anything about the meaning of sakkaya ditthi.” I asked a couple of direct questions above.

      • What do you understand by “sakkaya ditthi“? If you can explain in your own words, I can comment.
      • I am not trying to “get you.” If you genuinely want to learn Dhamma, you need to try to understand what you don’t know. If you don’t want to answer, that is fine. 

      One problem I have is that I don’t know how much of what I write people understand. I can write many posts, but if I am not addressing issues that people don’t understand, then it is a waste of time.

      • #48575
        Gad
        Participant

        Certainly, Sir, I will answer your question. As I mentioned earlier, there are still many concepts that I am processing. Sakkaya ditthi refers to the belief in an unchanging and permanent soul, which can be controlled and passed on from one life to another or can perish with the body depending on the ditthi. A sotāpanna has eliminated these views, but the perception of self still lingers like a bad smell on a washed cloth. It is only at the arahant stage that the perception of self is eliminated. This is the summary of what I learned, sir. Please explain what I misunderstood.

    • #48576
      Lal
      Keymaster

      Excellent.

      • You wrote: “Sakkaya ditthi refers to the belief in an unchanging and permanent soul, which can be controlled and passed on from one life to another or can perish with the body depending on the ditthi. A sotāpanna has eliminated these views, but the perception of self still lingers like a bad smell on a washed cloth.”
      • That is the explanation I was looking for.

      There are three related concepts that the Buddha taught.

      • A puthujjana attaches to things with mana (or asmi mana), tanha, and ditthi, in that order. All three arise based on the “distorted sanna” that is built-in to ALL births via Paticca Samuppada.
      • Asmi mana is the “sense of self or me,” which is the “deepest layer.” That is eliminated at the Arahant stage.
      • Next is tanha (in the form of kama raga, rupa raga, and arupa raga, which value existences in kama, rupa, and arupa loka.) Here, kama raga is removed at the Anagami stage. Rupa raga and arupa raga are removed while on the Arahant magga, i.e., after attaining the Anagami stage.
      • The outermost layer  is “sakkaya ditthi.”  That is the VIEW that worldly things have kama guna and thus can bring happiness. That is the first layer of ignorance to be removed at the Sotapanna stage

      They are summarized in the verse: “etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti.” It is discussed in the post “Etaṁ Mama, Esohamasmi, Eso Me Attā’ti – What Does It Mean?”

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    • #48577
      Gad
      Participant

      Thank you very much for taking the time to explain this to me, sir. I have to reread it to make sure I get it right. As I said there are many concepts in transition in my mind that I used to understand in a worldly way.

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