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From what I see the meaning behind is like that:
1) “Hey look at me I attained Nibbana, worship me!” – Breaking precepts
2) “I attained Nibbana, let me help you be free of suffering” – Okay to doBuddha mentioned that using superpowers to coax other people to practice Dhamma is not really right way to do because they would have wrong views about it but at the same time I remember story of Buddha who takes one person who was attached to his girlfriend/wife and could not leave her for a 5 minutes, Buddha showed him other great nymphs in higher realms so he considered that his wife is no more than monkey compared to them, Buddha coaxing him if he follows Noble Path he would be reborn in that realm with all those women so he ordained but at the same time in the process he attained Nibbana, other monks laughed his off as his intention was “impure” but Buddha “scolded” those monks as he already attained Arahantship.
Every situation needs a certain stage of wisdom – we can not act like robots and Buddha never expected that when he states Vinaya, some rules are straightforward but some rules seems to have open space for wisdom of a person and for him to decide and be responsible for his actions.
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Look into those desanas, also I help other people attain Nibbana on the group the way I attained it. We use puredhamma.net as a textbook to explain concepts of Dhamma and apply those things in practical matter with real-life examples. Link is around the forum to the group if you want to join it of course.
I do not think so there will be any satisfactory answer to it until one can start making any effort in 8-fold Path. What happens after Nibbana? Nibbana of course.
The closest explanation I can give is that Nibbana becomes the dominant “layer” before anything at the stage Arahanthood but before that other aggregates can be still dominant like in Sotapanna stage because of yet to be resolved avijja.
As Lal said: “Nibbana is the “state” that is reached when all those are stopped from arising. There are no citta, cetasika, rupa “in Nibbana””
Let us not go this way again. One can not think out the experience of Parinibbana prior to attaining it as a person can not think out the new color that he does not know as thinking process only revolves around what we know already.
The point is that self cannot be the basis of itself so it can not be no/not-self as anatta.
One will have a glimpse or understanding/experience of what Nibbana is when one follows 8 fold Path otherwise using any conventional ideas will only bring more corruption to Dhamma and wrong views especially by those people who did not even reach Sotapanna.
Too put it easier. Once one see Anicca nature of 5 kandhas they become “burning” once realize that one automatically discard any associate or craving in relation to those – like person who put hand into fireplace and his hand automatically draw back or as person who grabs coal in hand one drops it the moment one feel the burning but with hard shell of ignorance burning can not be felt or recognized so as you can see this got nothing to do with self or at least exclusively with self.
This got nothing to do with with the Path – constantly reminding yourself about how somebody is sick and dying etc. will actually take away energy for practice. Buddha said it’s good from “time to time” remind oneself about faults of ourselves and others but if you focus on this too much you will lose energy that you can use to advance on the Path. Sybe you need proper teacher and guidance to be less confused and someone who will straight you up as just going around circles will not make any use for you.
Buddha explained your behavior like this AN 7.71 so try to take it to the heart so you will not end up like this AN 8.10
Again this makes no sense, will create more confusion and problems then it really is to solve. It’s not logical and will confuse people who will just start to believe how it is as they will have no way to figure it out. Please stop those misinterpretations as you yourself admitted that you do not let go or dissolved sakkaya ditthi which your wrong views on sakkaya ditthi can be results of sakaya ditthi.
If you translate it rightfully or use explanations of those Pali words you will clearly see it got nothing to do with “self”
Anicca Sanna is enough to attain Nibbana (AN 7.66)
Yes Siebie, those are very bad – if you can’t stop using them it will be nice :)
Anicca is enough (SN22.102)
Anicca is enough (AN6.102)
Anicca is enough (AN7.95)Thank you very much Lal for this post. Very refreshing. Many expect from Dhamma to be fireworks and turn their life around in one night totally ignoring the facts you stated about human nature which can be discouraging for practice but once one understands the limitations of being human one will deal better with obstacles on the Path. :)
Thank you very much Lal for this post. Very refreshing. Many expect from Dhamma to be fireworks and turn their life around in one night totally ignoring the facts you stated about human nature which can be discouraging for practice but once one understands the limitations of being human one will deal better with obstacles on the Path.
Then a certain monk went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One, “‘One who dwells in the Dhamma, one who dwells in the Dhamma’: thus it is said, lord. To what extent is a bhikkhu one who dwells in the Dhamma?”
“Monk, there is the case where a monk studies the Dhamma: dialogues, narratives of mixed prose and verse, explanations, verses, spontaneous exclamations, quotations, birth stories, amazing events, question & answer sessions. He spends the day in Dhamma-study. He neglects seclusion. He doesn’t commit himself to internal tranquillity of awareness. This is called a monk who is keen on study, not one who dwells in the Dhamma.
“Then there is the case where a monk takes the Dhamma as he has heard & studied it and teaches it in full detail to others. He spends the day in Dhamma-description. He neglects seclusion. He doesn’t commit himself to internal tranquillity of awareness. This is called a monk who is keen on description, not one who dwells in the Dhamma.
“Then there is the case where a monk takes the Dhamma as he has heard & studied it and recites it in full detail. He spends the day in Dhamma-recitation. He neglects seclusion. He doesn’t commit himself to internal tranquillity of awareness. This is called a monk who is keen on recitation, not one who dwells in the Dhamma.
“Then there is the case where a monk takes the Dhamma as he has heard & studied it and thinks about it, evaluates it, and examines it with his intellect. He spends the day in Dhamma-thinking. He neglects seclusion. He doesn’t commit himself to internal tranquillity of awareness. This is called a monk who is keen on thinking, not one who dwells in the Dhamma.
“Then there is the case where a monk studies the Dhamma: dialogues, narratives of mixed prose and verse, explanations, verses, spontaneous exclamations, quotations, birth stories, amazing events, question & answer sessions. He doesn’t spend the day in Dhamma-study. He doesn’t neglect seclusion. He commits himself to internal tranquillity of awareness. This is called a monk who dwells in the Dhamma.
“Now, monk, I have taught you the person who is keen on study, the one who is keen on description, the one who is keen on recitation, the one who is keen on thinking, and the one who dwells in the Dhamma. Whatever a teacher should do — seeking the welfare of his disciples, out of sympathy for them — that have I done for you. Over there are the roots of trees; over there, empty dwellings. Practice jhana, monk. Don’t be heedless. Don’t later fall into regret. This is our message to you.”
Dhamma-viharin Sutta
What lies beyond Nibbana? AN 4.174
Then Ven. Maha Kotthita went to Ven. Sariputta and, on arrival, exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to Ven. Sariputta, “With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media [vision, hearing, smell, taste, touch, & intellection] is it the case that there is anything else?”
[Sariputta:] “Don’t say that, my friend.”
[Maha Kotthita:] “With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media, is it the case that there is not anything else?”
[Sariputta:] “Don’t say that, my friend.”
[Maha Kotthita:] “…is it the case that there both is & is not anything else?”
[Sariputta:] “Don’t say that, my friend.”
[Maha Kotthita:] “…is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?”
[Sariputta:] “Don’t say that, my friend.”
[Maha Kotthita:] “Being asked if, with the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media, there is anything else, you say, ‘Don’t say that, my friend.’ Being asked if … there is not anything else … there both is & is not anything else … there neither is nor is not anything else, you say, ‘Don’t say that, my friend.’ Now, how is the meaning of your words to be understood?”
[Sariputta:] “The statement, ‘With the remainderless stopping & fading of the six contact-media [vision, hearing, smell, taste, touch, & intellection] is it the case that there is anything else?’ objectifies non-objectification.[1] The statement, ‘… is it the case that there is not anything else … is it the case that there both is & is not anything else … is it the case that there neither is nor is not anything else?’ objectifies non-objectification. However far the six contact-media go, that is how far objectification goes. However far objectification goes, that is how far the six contact media go. With the remainderless fading & stopping of the six contact-media, there comes to be the stopping, the allaying of objectification.
“There are these four types of thunderheads. Which four?[…]
“And how is one the type of person who thunders but doesn’t rain? There is the case where a person has mastered the Dhamma: dialogues, narratives of mixed prose and verse, explanations, verses, spontaneous exclamations, quotations, birth stories, amazing events, question & answer sessions. Yet he doesn’t discern, as it actually is present, that ‘This is stress.’ He doesn’t discern, as it actually is present, that ‘This is the origination of stress.’ He doesn’t discern, as it actually is present, that ‘This is the cessation of stress.’ He doesn’t discern, as it actually is present, that ‘This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.’ This is the type of person who thunders but doesn’t rain. This type of person, I tell you, is like the thunderhead that thunders but doesn’t rain.
Like I said this will not bring any benefit, if one can not attain magga phala and keep up making ideas (the one you made belongs to Mahāyāna view which is more and more clear that you are crypto-mahayanist) it will not do, why you constantly look for acceptance from other people? If you understanding is right you should be already Anagami or Arahant. What you are trying to do also with sakkya ditthi thread is trying to think of a color that you do not know. It’s impossible – try to understand key things that leads to Nibbana and from that one can get deeper into those concepts but one can attain Nibbana even without knowing all of that if one know only key dhamma concepts that leads to it.
Repeating the same wrong views, again and again, does not make them right either. MN44 has wrongly translated sutta and what it’s spoken there has nothing to do with what Buddha meant there. Stopping the “I” making does not lead to the end of suffering, end of hate, greed, and lust, etc. You will be just more delusional then a regular person who just living life ignorantly about things and just following things like dogs follow the stick or bone.
You are repeating hinduism teachings which Buddha discarded, how hard is to understand that by thinking this way you will never get into Nibbana?
Sariputta explained it clearly it’s neither self (or any six sense door) or objects of perceptions but CRAVING which arise on the basis of AVIJJA (not knowing true nature of this world). Imagine being robbed by muggers that take fake money you have from a monopoly (but they do not know it and think it’s real) even that YOU (SELF) have been robbed you still does not suffer as that money is worthless.
