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I would add that Buddha does not really deal with those things. There is Sutta that Buddha explains that he does say what is the cause of suffering and how to end it, the rest is rather less important – people looking for those answers are not really looking to practice Dhamma but fulfill their intellectual curiosity – which is nothing wrong, but there is no point of “buying up” people into Dhamma thru proving certain points while Dhamma can be explained on examples that we are self-aware and most people are (mind, senses, ignorance, etc and whole Paticca Samupadda process and basic Anicca stuff should be enough even for less intelligent people)
Lal, this is not a person, this is another bot, the DavidLeilak is also a bot, not a person, they look thru the sites (those bots) and spread malicious or bad links to highlight their site into the top search of google. Delete those people and links also set up a captcha for posting :)
You can just google this site and you will see “paul” spamming everywhere :)
I would not suggest doing those methods above overall – even I suggest some anariya jhanas for people but if you already found real Dhamma there is no point of regressing into wrong views and methods for the sake of experience that it may happen anyway on the Path.
Most people who speak about jhanas do not experience jhanas but some lower states of concentration, are you sure you experienced arupa jhanas?
This person is probably a bot, this link may or is harmful – do not click it. You may delete this Lal. As site and forum getting more popular you will get more of those random bots spamming “bit.ly” links to their marketing stuff of hoax sites
There are many interesting topics in Dhamma for sure, we can ask endless questions about those things especially on the cosmic matter and things beyond scope of our mind and technology. One needs to keep that in check and by “that” I mean that mind-pattern that looking for some cosmic argument to practice Dhamma. It’s like a first-grader trying to challenge a mathematician about his own ignorance and limited information glued into what he “thinks and believes to be such and such” – the life experience will verify everything and a person will grow for certain things giving up on this pattern.
What I mean here you may be looking for validation in the wrong room that will cause more mess in understanding. Everything starts always from the base or root understanding, first, you learn numbers, the meaning of the numbers, and basic calculation to move further but if you want to go into “cosmic” matters “on the go” you will be at a disadvantage. People need to understand that – they will not able to grasp it all. You can’t have it all, but what is essential in Dhamma is very graspable for anyone willing and anyone with goods roots for it.
Thank you for your answer and input, I understand neither self nor non-self and can explain it too, which I would do different way on the podcast that I’m starting, the thing is that I was asking about “what makes you rebirth” not in the sense of self but as an object that “bounds you” into such and such existence. It’s our mind that goes thru this process and that what I mean, here the “mind” can sound vague and not direct because many people may think that the mind is this or that but for cultivators and Dhamma practitioners “mind” should be evident.
Okay, I see we do not understand each other in the sense that I read and know most of the things we said here (even thru limited insight) but the thing is if we want to pin point “what takes rebirth” even as an object or manufacture of rebirth which is neither self nor nonself what would you pin point it towards? For example, the mind is behind everything so it would be the mind under wrong views that take rebirth which is manufacturer or creator of this life or that life or even lifestream(?) and we have a small window being human (or being born in the times when Buddha is alive) to get rid of this ignorance so mind attains Nibbana, agree?
The thing is, there is a missing link. You can not disappear and appear as someone else out of the blue (even if you appear out of blue in deva realms there must be cause for it and object, a mechanism that you came from). If that would be the truth, you could just live your life as you want, fell dead and there will be “someone else” worried about suffering so there need to be an aspect of “I” that suffers thru lifetimes and “I” that is liberated but that obviously wrong view and leads to nowhere. There need to be as exact and as precise an explanation on that topic as is crucial to understand (unless we lacking information/understanding of it). Even if the perception of “I” is wrong it does not disappear. If we follow this we have a mind under avijja that takes the perception of “self” based on skandas but an underlying layer of that which sums up to be mind – that takes the “I” in the rebirth process and experiences suffering. My point and question what is that take rebirth before taking a form and “I”. If we take the mind – it will be as a “soul” from that perspective. Hope you understand better now where is the “lacking” puzzle here that I’m looking for :)
“However, as long as a mind has avijja, it ACTS AS IF it is a living being.” – that very good point and I get this, also I get this there is no soul and neither self nor nonself. As I understand for now it’s the mind under avijja that goes thru this process. :)
The question is what is that X that transmigrates from each bhava in that lifestream, can we find any answer anywhere in Tipitaka as if not we are having “missing link” as in darwin theory and do that X have any awareness that we can relate or is just energy-process, conduct of cause and effect that happens as with nature? (like the rain example that ends up giving base for life on earth for example)
I think you fault of understanding Dhamma comes from modern thinking as technology, for example you are looking for a phone that will connect you to “Nibbana” but there is no such thing and rather than putting all the focus on trying to find the right “method” you should stick to enhancing your mental factors as explained for example in Satipatthana, what matters is what you do with your mind, how you understand things with proper view and how do you deal with attachments. You can get rid of attachments without even a second of meditation with the right guidance and energy that supplicate insight, if you want to “see” the way out you need to purify mind first. If you think sitting certain way or moving certain why is the “hack” – that’s a big misunderstanding I would say. That’s to say you can not study Dhamma on your own or even with Lal texts as they are just text-books for teacher to explain you. You need to be in presence or hear audio or have special texts that holds the energy of Buddha Guna that purifies mind, certain suttas holds this energy (that’s why people chant it and enter jhanas). Dhamma is simple but not necessary easy if you are not gifted with a lot of white kamma and merit.
About Sotapanna leaving “the Path” – well I think that may happen, most people after attaining Sotapanna would be probably Neyya type, Neyya from what I understand needs further explanation, either from properly understanding sutta or having the right sutta that push person higher or higher person that can point out to the limits of his attainments like Anagami probably could help Sotapanna better than other Sotapanna. I read somewhere in the suttas that person/monk who wasn’t even Sotapanna helped to move Sotapannas higher by chanting suttas – so suttas holds certain purification effect if you have base you may figure it out but those Sotapannas may be actually higher type of people (above Neyya) this is gray area for me, so I can not really speak deeper about this but on the outside it maybe seemed simple as above but if you try to analyze it deeper it will get complicated and without Buddha insight is hard to judge those things right, and it may turn into guessing game.
