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Inflib said: ” I’m able to communicate with my gandhabba and she’s trying to stop me from continuing on the Path. For example, Arhanthood will create the fertile ground for a major catastrophe..”
Actually, it is not your gandhabba doing that. Your gandhabba is inside your body, and is essentially your “being”. The physical body is just a temporary residence for the gandhabba, the mental body. There are many posts on this but here are a couple: “Gandhabba (Manomaya Kaya)- Introduction” and “Our Mental Body – Gandhabba“.
I would encourage you to use the “Search” button at top right to find more posts, and also to read the links given in the above posts.
There are many unseen beings in our world. There is evidence that there are such “good beings” and “bad beings”. See:
“What Does Buddha Dhamma Say about Creator, Satan, Angels, and Demons?”Both these types can try to stop one from following Buddha Dhamma, as discussed in the above post. If you can give some details of your experience (if you are comfortable in doing that), I and others may be able to provide some input.
It is possible that more readers have had similar experiences. Before starting the discussion forum, I got several emails describing their experiences.
I just published the post, “Does Bodily Pain Arise Only Due to Kamma Vipaka?”, as promised.
Unless one takes time to go through that background material, this post may not be fully understood. Learning Dhamma (at this deeper level) REQURIES an effort.
Buddha Dhamma is not like anything that we have been exposed to, and some concepts may not be obvious to everyone. As I keep saying, do not expect to learn pure Dhamma just by reading posts. Practice (from a base level) is an essential part. Understanding how dasa akusala (and the ten types of micca ditthi) can defile a mind and cover it, is critical.
Also, please don’t take these comments as an indication of frustration on my part. I fully understand different people have different levels of understanding (that is why there are posts at the website ranging from basic to deep levels).
I will do whatever it takes to help out a motivated person (and I do know all those who have commented so far have the desire to learn).
Please do not just state what you believe or not. That is irrelevant. My goal is not to convince anyone of anything. My goal is to explain Buddha Dhamma per Tipitaka, and its original commentaries.
It is up to each person to decide whether these interpretations make sense.
Rehashing same ideas again and again, as I see in other discussion forums, does not serve any good for anyone. I will only respond if points in the post as directly quoted and shown to be incorrect.Of course, there could be other explanations (more correctly other ways of looking at the issue) in some cases (as we have seen in discussions so far), and those would be valid comments. What is unproductive is to say what one just believes, without proof from the Tipitaka.
Finally, something that I have learned by experience: expecting to grasp deep concepts without a good grasp of fundamentals is like taking a college level course without going to primary school. I wasted a lot of time before encountering desanas of Waharaka Thero, because I did not know some fundamentals (not only anicca, dukkha, anatta, but a few more basic things like bhava, jati, and gandhabba). I say this with a lot of compassion, not with agitation or disrespect. So, please don’t hold back from making legitimate comments.
Akvan said: “So I don’t think that the phrase; ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self.’ (yadanattā taṃ ‘netaṃ mama, nesohamasmi, na meso attā’ti) specifically refers to sakkayaditti. However, the basic / fundamental understanding of this will lead to the eradication of sakkayaditti. I guess at the ultimate level, the understanding of this leads to the eradication of Maana (asameemana).”
I agree. The vision or understanding starts at the Sotapanna Anugami stage, but it is truly comprehended only at the Arahant stage.
Also see: “Sakkaya Ditthi is Personality (Me) View?“.Siebe said: “I know it is not described that way in the sutta’s, but i belief the view “i am a human’ is a sakkaya ditthi”.
I did not say, “i am a human’ is a sakkaya ditthi”. Please read the above carefully.
What I said was: “This is really about sakkaya ditthi: whether there is anything in this world to be worthwhile to be called “mine” and to do immoral things to maintain those “things”.”
This is a fine point to grasp.OK. I did not catch the “sati” part of Siebe‘s question.
Yes. If sati (mindfulness) is there, then asobhana cetasika like jealousy and hate cannot arise. Only sobhana cetasika can arise together with other sobhana cetasika. Sobhana and asobhana cetasika do not mix in a given citta.
Siebe is probably talking about my analogy of a picture drawn with dark colors to show how a pure citta is contaminated by asobhana cetasika in a post at: “Living Dhamma – Fundamentals“.
It is just an analogy. The Buddha used many such analogies to clarify things. Don’t take it literally.
Issa (jealousy) or dosa (hate) cetasika will of course darken (defile) a mind.
Siebe said: “Do you belief the Buddha did possess some kind of knowledge (wisdom)…”
Of course I do. The whole idea is that a Buddha is a human who has perfected mind capabilities to the ultimate level, and is able to comprehend everything about the world. The problem most people have is they think the Buddha is yet another guru or a top level philosopher. One of course starts there, since one does not want have blind faith.
You may know the name of the sutta, where someone asked the Buddha “Are you a human, a deva, or a brahma?”. The Buddha said he was none of those. That he had transcended all in the 31 realms.
I think there is enough material at the website, especially with the “Nāma & Rūpa to Nāmarūpa” subsection, to see that the Buddha is someone who truly transcended this world.
The material I have presented so far is just scratching the surface. I myself have to spend the rest of my life to write what I know right now (and I do get frustrated about that). What I know came mainly from my later teacher Waharaka Thero’s desanas, but I am learning more from the Tipitaka now. The Buddha said that what he has taught can be compared to a handful of leaves in a forest. So, one will never be able to comprehend even a fraction of what he knew.
Also see: “Buddha Dhamma: Non-Perceivability and Self-Consistency“.Siebe said: “In the sutta’s the Buddha advises the khandha’s, ofcourse also the vinnanakhandha, to see, with correct wisdom, like this: ‘This is not mine, this I am not, this is not myself.’
What does this mean? How to understand this?”That is a good question, and most of the website is focused on explaining this subtle point. This is really about sakkaya ditthi: whether there is anything in this world to be worthwhile to be called “mine” and to do immoral things to maintain those “things”.
The Buddha rejected both “no-self” and an “everlasting self”. We cannot say “I don’t exist” or “you don’t really exist”. We both know that we do exist. But, this existence is transient. There is nothing to brag about even if one is a king, deva, or a brahma.
In this existence, we are humans. But in the next, we could an animal, a deva, or brahma. And that depends on what we have done in the past, and more importantly, what we are doing in this life (because we can get out of this suffering-filled existence by learning and practicing Dhamma).
In fact, at a deeper level, all five aggregates arise due to six causes (lobha, dosa, moha, alobha, adosa, amoha). But we only need to get rid of lobha, dosa, moha to break this samasaric journey. And that is done by staying away from dasa akusala, and learning and comprehending Tilakkhana. Panna (wisdom) will grow and all six roots will be taken out.
Now, this idea can be understood (and expressed) by different people in different ways. So, I would encourage others to give their opinions.
Yes, Siebe, it is a mess. It will take a while for most people to clear the cobwebs and see what the Buddha really meant by some of these verses in suttas.
Comprehending “Stream of consciousness” is what is meant by “viññāṇasotaṃ pajānāti“. As discussed in the recent posts at the website, viññāṇa is a key concept to understand:
“Viññāna Aggregate”Here is the sutta: Sampasādanīya Sutta (DN 28): In the sutta, after citing various Noble characteristics of the Buddha and Arahants, Ven. Sariputta basically reviews various aspects of the Dhamma, and the particular section that Siebe refers to is the “1.5. Dassanasamāpatti
desanā” or attaining the first stage of Samma Ditthi (dassana or vision). Therefore, Walshe is wrong is saying that this refers to Arahants.Here is the Pali version of the section quoted by Siebe and given above by SengKiat: “Puna caparaṃ, bhante, idhekacco samaṇo vā brāhmaṇo vā ātappamanvāya … pe … tathārūpaṃ cetosamādhiṃ phusati, yathāsamāhite citte imameva kāyaṃ uddhaṃ pādatalā adho kesamatthakā tacapariyantaṃ pūraṃ nānappakārassa asucino paccavekkhati: ‘atthi imasmiṃ kāye kesā lomā … pe … lasikā muttan’ti. Atikkamma ca purisassa chavi¬maṃ¬salo¬hi¬taṃ aṭṭhiṃ paccavekkhati. Purisassa ca viññāṇasotaṃ pajānāti, ubhayato abbocchinnaṃ idha loke appa¬tiṭṭhi¬tañca paraloke appa¬tiṭṭhi¬tañca. Ayaṃ catutthā ¬dassa¬na¬samā¬patti. Eta¬dā-nuttari¬yaṃ, bhante, ¬dassa¬na¬samā¬pattīsu“.
Basically, this section talks about how a person can see that 32 parts of the body are just composed of satara maha bhuta, and thus have no life in them by themselves, and are subjected to decay and death. One can comprehend this easily with the role of the gandhabba. It is the gandhabba that gives “life” to body parts; when it leaves, the body is lifeless.
In the third verse, it says, the third vision is attained when one realizes that the vinnana is what keeps the life either in this world or in the netherworld (paralowa as gandhabba). It does not mention gandhabba, but that is the idea.
In the fourth verse, the fourth vision is to realize that when vinnana ceases to exist, there is no footing either in this world or in paralowa.
Anyway, it is not possible to translate a verse without realizing the scope of the sutta. Above is just the key idea. This clearly shows that one cannot translate a sutta word-by-word.
By the way, section 1.3 of the sutta is “1.3 Gabbhavakkanti Desana” or about gandhabba descending to a womb. Gabba is a womb and vakkanti (or okkanti) is entering.
Vince said: “Yes I posted something, then edited it and tried to post it again. I figured it might show up eventually, but oh well.”
Once submitted, a given comment can be revised only within an hour. That could be the reason why the comment got deleted, but I am not sure. In principle, the system should not allow a revision after an hour.
Vince wrote: “Somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it true that any Ariya will still have minor wrong views about what is and isn’t good to do until they reach the Arahant level, because until that point Samma Ditthi is still incomplete?”
Yes. As Tobias G also elaborated, Samma Ditthi (or panna) is completed at the Arahant stage. There is no amoha cetasika. As Samma Ditthi grows, the moha asobhana cetasika weakens and the panna sobhana cetasika grows.
Thanks, SengKiat for the quotes.
However, that section of the sutta is not about an Arahant. It will be good if Siebe can point to the exact location of the verse within the sutta.
@Siebe Re: DN28§7
I cannot locate the location in the sutta where this phrase is at. Could you (1) either post the Pali version of the verse or (2) post the link to the English version so that I can find where it is in the Sutta?
This is a bit complex issue. I am still trying to figure out how to get all the relevant factors into a single post.
By the way, Johnny_Lim and Akvan have pointed out the important of the five niyamas. However, the traditional interpretation of the five niyamas is not correct.
I have discussed this a bit at: “What is Kamma? – Is Everything Determined by Kamma?”
I hope to finish the post within a few days.
I am thinking about closing out this topic. It was a good discussion and contains a lot of useful information. If there are no more questions, I will close it in a week a so.
Of course, it will remain on the forum list, so that anyone can come back and read. Also, if at any time, another relevant point on this topic is needed to be discussed, I can re-open the discussion. Please send me the question directly to [email protected].
Thank you, Siebe, for staring this discussion. Thanks and much merits to all who participated.
Siebe said: “..do you believe it is possible that one can deliberately come back to ‘this world, the 31 realms of samsara, while one is totally freed from samsara, to help other beings?”
This is a totally absurd idea in Mahāyāna Buddhism: That past Buddhas can come back to this world.
Once liberated from this world of 31 realms there is no coming back. At Parinibbana, nama and rupa are totally separated (nama rupa paricceda), and that is not a reversible process.
From the discussion that we have had on this topic, it is very clear that it is the defiled vinnana that is responsible for keeping one in this world. A Buddha (or an Arahant) will NEVER re-generate a defiled vinnana in order to REMAIN in this world.
It is only because we have a defiled vinnana that we are so reluctant (and even afraid) to be liberated from this suffering-filled world. This is especially because we are not aware of the unimaginable suffering that awaits in the apayas. Even in this world, how many people commit suicide because they just cannot bear the suffering (mental or physical), including some famous people with all the money in the world?
One can get a vague idea of the suffering in the lower realms in the apayas, by looking at the animal suffering. How many fish die of unimaginable suffering once hauled in to boats when caught in nets. They could be there for hours, writhing in pain, before dying. When a wolf pack attacks a deer, for example, they don’t kill and eat; they eat the flesh while the animal is still alive. Poeple tend to enjoy National Geographic videos where a tiger chases a deer and eats it alive. Most people are not aware that they themselves could be subjected to similar situations in future births.
