[sybe07]

A sheep is a social animal. It becomes quit stressful when it is isolated from the group. I think people have also such inborn needs. When these are not fulfilled we experience inner fire, stress, suffering.

A strong need is the need for love and attention. I learned that a baby has this already. Ofcourse it wants to be heard, seen, safeguarded, because it is totally helpless. It’s inborn scream for attention is it’s life insurance.

At the same time: exactly this is meant by the desire “I am”, the conceit “I am”. Inside all of us is this ‘scream’ because that’s it, a scream. The “I am” desire and conceit is connected with a sense of being alone, left, isolated and helpless.

An adult may think he is not a child anymore. Oke that is true but the desire to be loved, seen, heard, safeguarded is there. The scream may be felt not to clearly but make no mistake, it is there.

When this need of love and attention is not met, for example because a mother or father are really cold and do not hug or show any affection, a baby can die of stress. That is really remarcable and cruel, isn’t?

From the moment we are born we need more then physical food alone. We will not survive with physical food alone. I have seen this too with birds. I worked in a hospital for birds. While small ducks without parents were easy to support and became adults without health problems, young swans, which are more social, died almost anytime. They could not calm down and just eat. This was horrible to see.

I belief, also humans deprived of love and attention have a very hard time feeling just one moment at ease or peaceful. They heat up too. Also children of parents which are not very loving develop all kind of mental issues. They heat up. When you see the backgrounds of immoral acting people, criminals, dictators, sadist, it is mostly not a loving one.

Therefor i feel, most of the time, mind at ease or mind in fire, has everything to do with an often unconscious experienced sense of being welcome or not, being safe or not, being loved or not, being heard or not, being seen or not, being appreciated or not. Love and attention works as a fire blanket.

I do not say cooling down cannot be due to understanding Dhamma but i want to warn against irrealistic judgements about own attainments.

What would happen with you when you would be isolated, and would be deprived of love and attention, deprived of being respected, deprived of fulfillment of this deep needs? Would you really not heat up and burn?

sheep Siebe

[Lal]

@Siebe: Everyone at this forum has wanted to help you. You need to go over all those comments and see for yourself. But there is a limit as to how much we can repeat ourselves.

This is not a therapy forum. I certainly do not want to console anyone by going against the truth. The real meaning of “musavada” is not just lying (“musa” is incorrect +”vada” is arguments). It means presenting untruth (adhamma) as truth (dhamma).

By the way, adhamma are dasa akusala and dhamma are dasa kusala (abstaining from dasa akusala). The key here is that micca ditthi is the worst of the dasa akusala. Micca ditthi can be removed only by learning true dhamma AND by actually practicing (book knowledge is not enough).

Real compassion is not to keep someone happy by engaging in useless back and forth, but by trying to present the true teachings of the Buddha per Tipitaka. Any issue is to be decided by the Tipitaka, and that has been followed in every question put forth at the forum. Of course, my interpretation of a certain concept could be wrong. I am willing, and I look forward to, discuss such issues if proof is provided from the Tipitaka.

Just saying what one believes to be true, without providing evidence from the Tipitaka, is not going to benefit anyone. Please do not quote Mahāyāna or the commentaries like Visuddhimagga at this forum. I believe that is a waste of time and I have explained why in several posts. If anyone can provide contrary arguments to any specific point in those posts, they can ask questions by referring to the post and the specific bullet # in that post.

Of course, each person should decide for him/herself what is to be believed. But if those beliefs do not match the Tipitaka, no point in repeating such arguments (after it is explained why they do not match the Tipitaka). I am going to remove any unnecessary comments in the future, but will be happy to answer any legitimate questions.

P.S. I just posted a comment at “sakkaya ditthi and asmi mana” to try to clarify one more time.

[Johnny_Lim]

Lal said: Micca ditthi can be removed only by learning true dhamma AND by actually practicing (book knowledge is not enough).

Certainly true. I quote from MN.43, a conversation between Venerable Koṭṭhita and Venerable Sariputta…

https://suttacentral.net/mn43/en/sujato

“But how many conditions are there, your reverence, for bringing right understanding into existence?” “There are two conditions, your reverence, for bringing right understanding into existence: the utterance of another (person) and wise attention. Your reverence, these are the two conditions for bringing right understanding into existence.”

[vilaskadival]

Dear Sybe07,

Very nice analogy and compilation. What you have stated is certainly true and is exactly what happens to every being. With humans, it is more pronounced as we search for security in everything and that is the cause of expectation – be it love, work, belongingness etc.,

Personally, have been through the situation which you have stated in the last paragraph from age of 11 itself and that made me to start the search on why certain things have happened with me in this way.

During my growing years, have become heated up due to this isolation and misunderstanding which near and dear one used to get about me and that made be being silent most of the time. Even my parents used to feel that there is something wrong with me as I was more into observer role rather than a reaction one.

There existed a rage in me to prove to people that I can perform which I did eventually, but instead of change in the situation which I expected, they saw me being rude and arrogant filled with ego centric ambitions, while internally I was not so.
No matter of explaining could help which further increased the isolation making me feel stressed all the time and internal heating up continued into bouts of anger on some pretext or other due to this non-fulfilment and not being loved or accepted no matter what.

This made me to explore into Hindu and Buddha dharma from 1999 onwards.

After my father death in 2010 there has been several transformations because of Buddha Dharma and also due to Upanishad(s) which also carries the same essence of Buddha Dharma and that transformation made me “cool” from inside and stopped 3 things from 2013 onwards:

1. Comparison with anything
2. Compulsive living
3. Competing with oneself or others

Just last month my mother also died and that has further more transformed me teaching real essence of life and how looking at tilakkhana (anicca, dukkha, anatta) every moment can be of refuge in the whirlpool of crisis.

Thought of sharing this personal experience which has made me see the fragility of life for which we all strive for and how one could cool down in the eye of storm by following the path of Buddha dharma.

I do agree that one should be realistic in one’s own attainment which needs to be backed with personal experience which helps one to “be cool” when calamity strikes.

[sybe07]

Thanks Vilaskadival, i am glad you can relate to my writing. Nice to read you made such a progress. Wish you the best, siebe

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