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That post was one of the earliest written. I need to revise it, if I can find it.
15 billion years what the scientists estimate for the life of the universe which they assume arose due to the Big Bang. But according to Buddha Dhamma, the whole universe is not destroyed at once (and there was no Big Bang either). It is individual star systems that are born and destroyed in a billion year time scales, but not all at the same time.
According to Buddha Dhamma, the following is what happens:
1. The universe has no traceable beginning, just like life has no traceable beginning.
2. When our Sun blows up in a few billion years, 10,000 other star systems in the vicinity are destroyed due to that blast. In modern science it is called a superrnova.
3. Such 10,000 clusters of world systems blow up from time to time in the universe. Again, such supernova are observed by scientists every year.
4. What science does not know yet is that those star systems, like our Solar system, are re-formed over billions of years. Of course science is not aware of that part yet.
5. When our Solar system is destroyed, not all 31 realms are destroyed. Higher lying brahma worlds (where there is very little of “destructible matter”) are NOT destroyed. That is where all living beings on this Earth ends up before the destruction of the Earth.
6. Then when the Earth is re-formed, those brahmas — at the end of their lifetimes in those worlds — are re-born as humans.
7. Then the life on Earth evolves to other lifeforms too, and eventually is destroyed again after billions of years.
8. So, that is the life cycle. It happens all over the universe at any given time. That is why scientists observe several supernovas even in our own galaxy each year.This is the story detailed in the Agganna Sutta. It is very complex and requires more background material to discuss in detail. But that is an outline.
Uyap: It is not the universe that undergoes cyclic rebirth. It is our Solar system that undergoes cyclic rebirth. We discussed this in just a few days ago: “Are Every Buddha’s Teachings the Same?”
As I said, please think through carefully before rushing to post.
Uyap quoted from an article: ““As physicists analysed the idea it emerged that it carried with it the implication that the Big Bang would create not just one universe – but an endless supply.
Some, according to the Hartle-Hawking theory, would be very like our own, perhaps have Earth-like planets, societies, even individuals similar to the ones in our Universe.
Other universes would be subtly different – perhaps with Earth-like planets where dinosaurs were not wiped out. And there would be universes completely unlike our own, with no Earths, perhaps no stars and galaxies and different laws of physics.”These are all speculations, which are called theories. A theory is not accepted until it is confirmed by observations/experiments. That is very hard to do in Cosmology. Of course, there are indirect ways to confirm theories, but none is there right now to confirm any of this.
Human mind is naturally curious. We want to know everything, especially regarding this wondrous place called universe. It is mind-boggling, but exciting at the same time. I used to spend a lot of time reading science fictions as well as speculations about the origins of the universe, etc.
Let me start with a couple of stories from the Tipitaka that really settled the issue for me. One time, Ven. Moggallana, who was only second to the Buddha in psychic (abhinna) powers, wanted to explore the universe and see for himself how far he could go. He got lost! Buddha had to come to his rescue. I don’t remember the name of Tipitaka reference. It would be great if someone can post it.
– So, if Ven. Moggalana was curious about these things, even after becoming a chief disciple, it is not a surprise that most humans are curious.Then there is the account about a yogi, Rohitassa, who developed abhinna powers. He wanted to see the end of the world and took off looking for it, got lost and died. He was reborn a deva, came to see the Buddha and told the Buddha about his quest; see, “Rohitassa Sutta: To Rohitassa“.
Looking at the issue from another angle, let us think about Einstein. Of course, he made great discoveries. But he died a very discouraged person. Last several decades of his life, he did not make any new discoveries. He was obsessed with formulating a Grand Unified Theory that could explain all phenomena. He was unable to do that and died still trying.
– Even though I am grateful to him for all his discoveries, he did not accomplish very much in stopping future suffering. Even though he made some remarks about Buddhism based on incomplete and inaccurate information available at that time, he was not ever exposed to the main message of the Buddha.From the viewpoint of the Buddha, Einstein could have spent his life pursuing the Sotapanna stage (if he was exposed to true and pure Dhamma), and could have attained the Sotapanna stage.
– From this viewpoint, he would have been free of an unimaginable level of suffering. He may have been reborn a human (if he had kammic energy for the human bhava left), and now he would start all over with nothing to show for his accomplishments as “Einstein” in the previous life.Another key point is that these theories on a multiverse (innumerable universes, not Solar systems but whole universe with billions of galaxies in EACH one), is based on the assumption of a “Big Bang”: that a given universe basically came into existence from NOTHING, in an unimaginable explosive event.
– But the validity of that assumption is not proven either, even though most scientists believe in it; see, “What If the Big Bang Wasn’t the Beginning? New Study Proposes Alternative“.Cosmology is one of the things that the Buddha declared “unthinkable (acinteyya)” for a normal human. One can spend a lifetime looking into, and getting no where.
Here is a video from Carl Sagan to get an idea how vast our “detectable universe” is: https://youtu.be/5Ex__M-OwSA
More details at :”The Grand Unified Theory of Dhamma – Introduction“.P.S. I have deleted 3 postings that appeared above. Please do not use the discussion forum as a instant messaging board. Make only useful and thought-out comments. It does not serve anyone to make statements based merely on one’s intuition. One should provide reasonable explanations.
Sorry about the delay in replying. I am going to be somewhat busy for next several days. But I like to set the background with the following post:
“Buddha Dhamma: Non-Perceivability and Self-Consistency“.I am not sure how many if you have read it. What that post tries to say is that modern science is still at the very early stage compared to Buddha Dhamma. I will expand on that.
I also want to point out the following which is not really related to this topic, but important, regarding a statement made above.
Y not said: “Lal says somewhere that clinging is of two types: the normal one for sense pleasures etc. and Nibbana (of course these are my own words).”
This is not really correct. One’s desire to attain Nibbana is not called clinging. The Pali word is “chanda” and specifically chanda iddhipada; even the word “desire” may have a sensual connotation.
– But it is tanha which probably should translated as clinging. You may have the correct understanding, but if you use the word “clinging” that seems to imply attachment to something in this world.
– This is why it is better to understand key Pali words and use those even in English sentences whenever possible. We just want to make sure to convey the idea.The sutta is at: “Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta“.
The four posts there can be printed out or downloaded as a pdf using the “Print/PDF” button at the bottom of the page.
That can be done for any post at the website.
y not asked: “Are there any suttas where this ‘retrieving from bygone desanas* in relation to the various realms are given?”
This information is gathered from various suttas, including the Maha Parinibbana Sutta and the Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta. It will take a lot of time for someone to make a referenced account.
y not asked: ““One can only make CONDITIONS for another to, say receive merits, but that living being must have the right causes to receive them; see, “Transfer of Merits (Pattidāna) – How Does it Happen?“.’
AND I have read that post. There it is said , simply put, that the other must be open to receive whatever merits are intended to reach him/her. I do not recall any mention of CONDITIONS that one can make FOR THE OTHER in that respect”
I don’t think I can explain it any better than in that post. I gave the following analogy: A radio/television station is broadcasting a program. But the reception of the program by a radio/TV depends on the quality of that device and also whether it has been “tuned” to the correct station.
So, just sending merits (broadcasting signal) is not enough. One at the receiving end must have the right mindset (receiver tuned to receive it).Uyap sadi: ““Buddha Dhamma is the Buddha’s doctrine could not be subject to change.”
AND “Then can I assume Buddha Dhamma is Asankhata?”There are many things in this world that do not change. For example, the nama gotta (memory records) are permanent. Buddha Dhamma is like those nama gotta; do not change with time. That is why it is “akalika“.
The word “sankata” is used to denote things that arise due to “sankhara“, and lead to suffering or are associated with suffering. They arise due to avijja or ignorance of the Four Noble Truths (or in other words Tilakkhana, the true nature of this world).
Nibbana is attained when when the root causes for suffering are removed, i.e., cultivating panna. When panna gets to its pinnacle at the Arahant phala moment, the mind has seen the absolute true nature of this world and will not do any more sankhara that will lead to future suffering of any kind. Nibbana is called “asankata” in that sense. It is attained by stopping the arising of all such sankhara.
@Eirc: I have already explained this in detail under another question of yours. I am pasting it below. Please feel free to ask questions if anything is not clear.
The two examples you give above do not belong to the “frivolous talk” category. To live in the society, we need to made “small talk”. Frivolous talk is when people get together and gossip for hours on end. The simplest way is not to consider these things as “absolute rules”. Some people avoid taking even a sip of alcohol for the fear of breaking a precept. That is being foolish. We need to understand that drinking is bad only because when done on a regular basis (and at extreme levels) it can be bad for your health and even more, it can lead to “bad decision making”; one’s mind can lose “mindfulness”.
What we need to understand is the priority of things to do, which tasks to focus on. Worries about spending time on watching TV, internet, movies, frivolous talk, etc will go away when one understands what the priorities should be.
I have explained this in various posts, and mentioned in this in response to a previous question of yours. But since this is an important issue, let me put this from a different point-of-view.
A key concept that has been hidden is “gati” (or “gathi”). Based on our actions, speech, and thoughts (which are kaya, vaci, and mano sankhara), we accumulate various gati, which can be loosely translated as habits/character, but more like moral character.
Let us take person X. If X is capable of doing actions suitable for an animal, he has “animal gati”. These could lie in a broad range, for example, vicious animals kill, so if X can kill (especially a human), then he has gati suitable for an animal. On the other hand, if X has cultivated rupavacara jhana, and enjoys getting into rupavacara jhana, then he has cultivated gati suitable for a rupavacara brahma.
X may have many different gati, but one of the strong ones will determine the bhava that is grasped. So, if X has strong vicious gati suitable for an animal, X is likely to grasp a bhava in the animal realm. On the other hand, if X has dominant gati of a rupavacara brahma, he would grasp that bhava and will be born a brahma to enjoy jhanic pleasures (which are of course temporary).
I really recommend everyone to watch the movie “Earthlings”,at the following site: “Nationearth.com“
(Warning: There are many scenes that are highly disturbing to the mind).So, animals in general undergo much harsh suffering than humans. So, such suffering is possible for X, if X has some kind of “animal gati”. If X is a serial killer, he has gati suitable for much harsher realms in the niraya. If X has “excessively greedy gati” (and thus can commit immoral things to get them), X could grasp a “preta bhava” and be born a preta. It must be noted that just engaging in normal sense pleasures do not belong to this category (so watching TV or going to movies is not a problem here; they are not “apayagami actions”).
So, if one is habitually doing strong dasa akusala, one has ‘apayagami gati”. Here apaya includes the lowest four realms of niraya, preta, asura, and animal. By following the Eightfold Path, X can get rid of such “apayagami gati”. Then one becomes Sotapanna. However, one needs to remove the 10 types of micca ditthi and also comprehend Tilakkhana. That comes AFTER making sure one abstains from those “apayagami actions”.
The next higher 7 realms are the higher realms of the kama loka: human realm and the 6 deva realms. One gets a human or deva bhava by cultivating “human gati” or “deva gati”. But there is still suffering in these realms, even though less than in the apayas. As long as X is attached to sense pleasures, X will have those gati. When one comprehends the long-term dangers of sense pleasures, one would get rid of such gati, and attain the Anagami stage (via Sakadagami stage; I am making this brief).
Once one becomes an Anagami, birth is still possible in the 16 rupavacara brahma realms and the 4 arupavacara brahma realms. Even though suffering in those realms are much less, there is still suffering there. When one realizes that eventually, one loses “upadana” for such bhava also, and one attains the Arahant stage. That is Nibbana. However, one should not even think about the Sakadagami stage until one is a Sotapanna/Sotapanna Anugami.
That is a basic outline. Of course, there are so many details. Those gati and bhava are fueled by Paticca Samuppada cycles that run each time X commits an akusala kamma (which cultivate apayagami gati) or punna kamma (which cultivate gati suitable for human and higher realms).
These set of gati are also called “asava”. When all gati are removed, one becomes an Arahant. Then one will not grasp any bhava. This is why Nibbana is also called “asvakkhaya” or getting rid of asava. Again, DO NOT even contemplate about anything higher than the Sotapanna stage. People get scared about “getting extinct”. One must take one step at a time. One can always stop at the Sotapanna stage! But it is good to get that overall world view of the Buddha.
Now, it is good idea to expand on the above outline by finding and reading posts on gati (gathi), bhava, jati, etc., the key words that you need to get a good idea about.
Once that is done, and the above world view becomes clear, one can make an “action plan” and decide what tasks to be undertaken first.
It is obvious that the first priority would be to avoid births in the apayas. So, one needs to make sure that one abstains from actions, speech, and thoughts that could lead to four types of “apaya bhava”, so to speak. These are the strongest versions of dasa akusala.
I discussed another related aspect in the post: “Basic Mindfulness for Niramisa Sukha“. Note that I have revised the titles of some discussions to make the subject matter clear.
Please feel free to ask questions. I can direct to appropriate posts to learn any concepts that are not clear. I think this is a good undertaking for anyone who is interested in making an action plan to follow the Path systematically.
@Eirc: What we need to understand is the priority of things to do, which tasks to focus on. Worries about spending time on watching TV, internet, movies, will go away when one understands what the priorities should be.
I have explained this in various posts, and mentioned in this in response to a previous question of yours. But since this is an important issue, let me put this from a different point-of-view.
A key concept that has been hidden is “gati” (or “gathi”). Based on our actions, speech, and thoughts (which are kaya, vaci, and mano sankhara), we accumulate various gati, which can be loosely translated as habits/character, but more like moral character.
Let us take person X. If X is capable of doing actions suitable for an animal, he has “animal gati”. These could lie in a broad range, for example, vicious animals kill, so if X can kill (especially a human), then he has gati suitable for an animal. On the other hand, if X has cultivated rupavacara jhana, and enjoys getting into rupavacara jhana, then he has cultivated gati suitable for a rupavacara brahma.
X may have many different gati, but one of the strong ones will determine the bhava that is grasped. So, if X has strong vicious gati suitable for an animal, X is likely to grasp a bhava in the animal realm. On the other hand, if X has dominant gati of a rupavacara brahma, he would grasp that bhava and will be born a brahma to enjoy jhanic pleasures (which are of course temporary).
I really recommend everyone to watch the movie “Earthlings”,at the following site: “Nationearth.com“
(Warning: There are many scenes that are highly disturbing to the mind).So, animals in general undergo much harsh suffering than humans. So, such suffering is possible for X, if X has some kind of “animal gati”. If X is a serial killer, he has gati suitable for much harsher realms in the niraya. If X has “excessively greedy gati” (and thus can commit immoral things to get them), X could grasp a “preta bhava” and be born a preta. It must be noted that just engaging in normal sense pleasures do not belong to this category (so watching TV or going to movies is not a problem here; they are not “apayagami actions”).
So, if one is habitually doing strong dasa akusala, one has ‘apayagami gati”. Here apaya includes the lowest four realms of niraya, preta, asura, and animal. By following the Eightfold Path, X can get rid of such “apayagami gati”. Then one becomes Sotapanna. However, one needs to remove the 10 types of micca ditthi and also comprehend Tilakkhana. That comes AFTER making sure one abstains from those “apayagami actions”.
The next higher 7 realms are the higher realms of the kama loka: human realm and the 6 deva realms. One gets a human or deva bhava by cultivating “human gati” or “deva gati”. But there is still suffering in these realms, even though less than in the apayas. As long as X is attached to sense pleasures, X will have those gati. When one comprehends the long-term dangers of sense pleasures, one would get rid of such gati, and attain the Anagami stage (via Sakadagami stage; I am making this brief).
Once one becomes an Anagami, birth is still possible in the 16 rupavacara brahma realms and the 4 arupavacara brahma realms. Even though suffering in those realms are much less, there is still suffering there. When one realizes that eventually, one loses “upadana” for such bhava also, and one attains the Arahant stage. That is Nibbana. However, one should not even think about the Sakadagami stage until one is a Sotapanna/Sotapanna Anugami.
That is a basic outline. Of course, there are so many details. Those gati and bhava are fueled by Paticca Samuppada cycles that run each time X commits an akusala kamma (which cultivate apayagami gati) or punna kamma (which cultivate gati suitable for human and higher realms).
These set of gati are also called “asava”. When all gati are removed, one becomes an Arahant. Then one will not grasp any bhava. This is why Nibbana is also called “asvakkhaya” or getting rid of asava. Again, DO NOT even contemplate about anything higher than the Sotapanna stage. People get scared about “getting extinct”. One must take one step at a time. One can always stop at the Sotapanna stage! But it is good to get that overall world view of the Buddha.
Now, it is good idea to expand on the above outline by finding and reading posts on gati (gathi), bhava, jati, etc., the key words that you need to get a good idea about.
Once that is done, and the above world view becomes clear, one can make an “action plan” and decide what tasks to be undertaken first.
It is obvious that the first priority would be to avoid births in the apayas. So, one needs to make sure that one abstains from actions, speech, and thoughts that could lead to four types of “apaya bhava”, so to speak. These are the strongest versions of dasa akusala.
Please feel free to ask questions. I can direct to appropriate posts to learn any concepts that are not clear. I think this is a good undertaking for anyone who is interested in making an action plan to follow the Path systematically.
Seibe: Your questions are all over the place. I spend time answering your questions and you don’t even respond to what I ask.
Please think through before asking questions, and ask them in a simple way so that the question is clear. Also, you need to answer my questions, if this is going to be discussion.
The above question does not make any sense, in the sense that answer should be obvious: Each person responds to a given situation in his own way, based on his own understanding. Hereafter, I will just ignore questions that do not make sense or trivial like this one.
@y not:
Yes. The disappearance of Buddha Dhamma within thousands of years happens only in the human realm.
– There are rupavacara brahmas in the realms #23-#27 (which are reserved for Anagamis), who attained Anagami stage by listening to previous Buddhas who lived many aeons (Maha Kalpas) long ago. Note that the lifetime in those realms is 500 Maha Kalpas; see, “31 Realms of Existence“.I just remembered that you also pointed out (under a different topic) that one’s thoughts cannot directly cause another SIGNIFICANTLY. Yes. One can only make CONDITIONS for another to, say receive merits, but that living being must have the right causes to receive them; see, “Transfer of Merits (Pattidāna) – How Does it Happen?“.
You seem to pay good attention while reading posts!!
@Siebe:
That is correct. The Earth (and Solar system) will be re-formed billions of years after it is destroyed in about 5 billions years.
– Yes. There have been an infinite number of Earths. But don’t get into these things too much. These can distract one’s attention from the Path, especially since there is no evidence to support this re-formation from science, YET.
– It is to be noted that science thought that the universe is in a steady-state only 100 years ago. Einstein believed that and actually tried to incorporate a “fudge factor” into his cosmological model in order to force the universe to be in steady-state.Welcome to the discussion forum, Uyap!
Yes. All Buddhas teach the same Buddha Dhamma.
That includes the Four Noble Truths, Noble Eightfold Path, and Paticca Samuppada.
Our Solar system lasts around 15 billion years; that is 15 thousand million years. During this cycle four Buddhas have already appeared with Buddha Gotama the last and Buddha Kassapa before him. There is one more Buddha appearing before the destruction of this Earth. A given Buddha Sasana of a given Buddha lasts from 5000 to 80,000 years. And Buddha Sasana of two consecutive Buddhas could be separated by millions of years. So, when one Buddha Sasana (teachings of a given Buddha) disappears from the world (among humans), there will be a large time gap before the next.
Therefore, each Buddha discovers Buddha Dhamma on his own. Therefore, it seems to be amazing that they all come up with the same Dhamma. But that is simple to explain. Buddha Dhamma is the ultimate truth about this world. That truth or Dhamma never changes.
Finally, even though there are going to be five Buddhas in this “world cycle” (Maha Kalpa), that is very rare; it is called “Maha Baddha Kalpa“. For example, there were 30 such Maha Kalpas (about 450 billion years!) before this Maha Kalpa, where not a single Buddha appeared.
This is why we should try to make as much progress as possible within our lifetimes.
P.S. To complete this account, Buddha Dhamma (Four Noble Truths, Noble Eightfold Path, and Paticca Samuppada, etc) is ALWAYS valid regardless of whether those teachings are known to the humans or not. They are laws of Nature. The Buddhas just discover those laws — by their own efforts — and teach them.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Hi Asdish: Yes. you can progress rapidly by avoiding dasa akusala and doing meditation.
However, meditation should not be restricted to formal mediation. One needs to be on the lookout for any defiled thoughts that come to the mind at all times. This is real Satipatthana (“sati” + “patthana” or being aware of where the mind is trying to get loose and go off in tangents); see, “Correct Meaning of Vacī Sankhāra“.
You may also want to go through the following series, after covering above:
“Three Marks of Existence – English Discourses“@Siebe:
You said: “..i have become more aware of the effects of my own intentions, words and deeds, and i have become more interested in others welbeing too. My orientation has shifted more to the welbeing of others.”
AND
“Being oriented this way at the same time is a kind of burden. Becoming so concerned with not creating suffering to oneself and others, that itself is a kind of suffering, a burden.’I cannot see how compassion for others can be a burden. If one has compassion for others, the MOST one can do is to stay away from dasa akusala that deals with other living beings:
intentionally killing humans or animals is bad, stealing from others is bad, engaging is sexual misconduct is bad, participating in heavy drinking/taking drugs is bad, intentionally deceiving others is bad, engaging in gossiping, empty talk, etc are bad.Furthermore, generating bad thoughts about someone/something all the time is bad. This is an aspect most people do not pay attention to: “Correct Meaning of Vacī Sankhāra“.
On the other hand, one must do good things and generate good thoughts or good vaci sankhara. One can also help others by giving to needy, fulfilling one’s responsibilities at work and at at home, teaching/discussing Dhamma, etc. None of these are burdens, if one does those with true understanding. One feels that one should do those things out of compassion and to be a responsible human being.
Can you state clearly how having compassion for others can be a burden? Please use simple words like I did in the above paragraphs.
Welcome to the discussion forum, Asdish!
I am gald that you find the website useful.There are over 500 posts at the site, and which posts/sections are suitable for a given person depends on the person. This could be a good start: “User’s Guide to Pure Dhamma Website“. Also, read the recent discussions at: “General Forum“, and any other forums that grabs your attention.
Once you see a hook (a point that makes sense), just go deeper from there. Ask questions if something is not clear. The “Search” box on top right is really good in finding relevant posts using key words/phrases.
A suggestion that I made in another discussion is: Stay away from dasa akusala as much as possible and read posts in sections that you understand, rad the links to other sections given there, and so on. Those two things help each other; just doing one is not enough. Purification of the mind comes from both.
