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Y not said: “So the beings are not the hadaya vatthu. They only have it. Is that what is meant? In that case, by what other names or descriptions are the beings themselves, as distinct from and beyond the hadaya vatthu, refered to in Buddhadhamma?”
How can a being be its hadaya vatthu? Hadaya vatthu is just a suddhashtaka, which is even smaller than an atom in modern science.
A human has an inert body that weighs tens of kg or hundreds of pounds.
Obviously that body is not the human, because at death it becomes inert and the gandhabba comes out. So, is gandhabba the “person”?But a gandhabba essentially has a hadaya vatthu and five pasada rupa, where those pasada rupa are also suddhashtaka. So, in essence, that human can also be reduced a set of six rupa smaller than an atom.
That set of hadaya vatthu and five pasada rupa are NOT fixed or NOT unchanging. They decay and a new set arises due to kammic energy at a very fast rate.
This is why it cannot be said that there is a “self”.
However, one’s pancakkhandha (and panca upadanakkhandha and gati) remains accessible with that hadaya vatthu; of course there are NOT fixed and keep changing too. That is why it cannot be said that there is “no self”.
I am re-stating this basic picture because it is critical to understand. See, “What Reincarnates? – Concept of a Lifestream“.
Embodied is referring to the post: “Citta, Manō, Viññāna – Stages of a Thought“, which is an advanced post.
Here is #16 from that post:
Aṅguttara Nikāya 1; Accharāsaṅghātavagga; Sutta #51 is a very short sutta. Here is the complete sutta: “Pabhassaramidaṃ, bhikkhave, cittaṃ. Tañca kho āgantukehi upakkilesehi upakkiliṭṭhaṃ. Taṃ assutavā puthujjano yathābhūtaṃ nappajānāti. Tasmā ‘assutavato puthujjanassa cittabhāvanā natthī’ti vadāmī”ti.
Translated: “Bhikkhus, a (pure) citta has pabhassara nature. That citta is contaminated by defilements (keles or klesha). A normal human who has not heard my Dhamma (assutavā puthujjano) is not aware of this true nature. I do not recommend citta bhāvana to them“.
The citta bhavana referred to here is the same as anywhere else: It is always the Anapanasati/Satipattahana. One needs to be mindful always, and cultivate good thoughts that come to the mind and reject bad thoughts.
That becomes really effective only when one starts comprehending Tilakkhana. Anyone who has not, is an assutavā puthujjano. Then they do it at the mundane level. One who is doing “breath meditation” is even below that, because that does absolutely nothing to purify the mind.
Those are the realms #28 through #31, the arupavacara realms:
“31 Realms of Existence“.Only a trace is matter (rupa) exists there: the hadaya vatthu of those beings. Not even a single pasada rupa exists for that living being, who is called an arupavacara brahma; they can only think.
If a human cultivates arupavacara jhana, he/she would experience that too, i.e., no other sense faculty will function in those jhana. Of course his/her whole body will be kept alive.
First of all, welcome to the forum, Eric!
Frivolous talk is speech that does not contribute any value, either in the mundane sense or in the lokottara sense (helpful towards Nibbana).
The example you gave about weight loss is not frivolous talk; that information could be beneficial to someone who is trying to lose weight. So, that is beneficial in the mundane sense. When we meet a friend after some time, we ask about one’s health and one’s family and that is not frivolous talk.
You asked: “ If I “make conversation” with a customer about sports and the weather, is this frivolous talk?”
No. That is part of your responsibility (and courtesy) as a salesman in order to win the customer’s confidence and sell merchandise. Of course, you would not want it to be dragged into a lengthy conversation about weather or sports; that would be frivolous. So, you need to make a judgement about that.Frivolous talk is when people get together and talk gossip or crack jokes about others for hours. In general, talking at length about things that are not conducive to the benefit of anyone is frivolous talk.
In general, the following can be used as a guide:
– If you know something that is not helpful and is untrue, then do not say it
– If you know something that might be helpful, but is untrue, do not say it
– If you know something that is not helpful and is true, do not speak about it
– If you know something that is helpful and is true, then find the right time to say itOf course, discussing Dhamma is the best type of talk, since that will help everyone immensely not only to elevate “the quality of life” in this life, but also to work towards getting rid of samsaric suffering and attaining permanent happiness (Nibbana).
Siebe said: “I tried to explain to myself the difference between vyapada sankappa, often translated as ill will and vihimsa sankappa often translated as the thought of harming or cruelty.”
Yes. There seems to be just a subtle difference between the two. But the difference is significant.
Himsa (or vihimsa) applies mostly in the case of hurting someone or especially animals. Avihimsa is not to have that tendency, and to have compassion for all beings.
Vyapada is the tendency to generate lot of “angry” thoughts or vaci sankhara about an enemy. When one cultivates such vaci sankhara, one’s mind get defiled and one is on a downward path (vyapada comes from “vaya” + “pada” or “towards one’s own destruction”).
– Vera (වයිර in Sinhala) is another word used to give the same meaning of enmity.
– Of course, avyapada and avera (අවයිර in Sinhala) are the opposites, basically meaning loving kindness.We can take some examples to clarify.
We see some people (especially children but adults too), habitually like to verbally abuse and laugh at others and enjoy that. In the case of animals, they like to hurt or even kill animals for no reason and to enjoy that without any remorse (for example those who like to watch cock-fighting). These are vihimsa sankappa.
On the other hand, one can form a long-lasting enmity with another PERSON, if one perceives that person has done something bad to oneself or to someone that one loves. Unlike in the previous case, this enmity can last a long time, even through rebirths, if one keeps thinking bad thoughts (vaci sankhara) about that person day in and day out. These are vyapada sankappa.
Those who tend to cultivate vyapada sankappa can use the following meditation verse:
Aham avero homi, avyāpajjho homi,
Anīgho homi, sukhī attānam pariharāmi.May I be free from enmity; may I be free from ill-will;
May I be free from anger; May I keep myself at peace.I am not sure how many of you understand that pancakkhadha is ALL MENTAL.
The following is an old post, but a very important post. I hope you all read and ask questions if somethings are not clear. Understanding this post will help clarify some other concepts as well:
“Pancakkhandha or Five Aggregates – A Misinterpreted Concept“Akvan said: “If you take the example of the man who was born into the wealthy family and lived a fulfilling life, can you say that he wasn’t sad or unhappy even for a second during his life..”
No. I was merely out that in that case there is no real dukha experienced by that person, and he was definitely not in the anatta (totally helpless) state during his life.
If you want to see real dukha and real anatta, please watch the video “Earthlings” at this site:
http://www.nationearth.com/I must warn that there are very disturbing scenes after about 10-15 minutes.
@Embodied: I am assuming that this is your description of Tilakkhana in the “mundane sense”, that you promised to do under another topic.
So, you do not believe in rebirth, but are trying to explain Tilakkhana within that framework.Now think about the following situation. One is born healthy into a wealthy family. He lives for, say about 50 years, and dies in a sudden heart attack. During his life, he enjoyed a “full life” and also did not engage in any immoral activities (there was no need; he could have whatever he wanted and he did not need to make money). He of course enjoyed all sense pleasures approved by the norms of the society (good food, had a good married life, had good children, no illnesses, etc).
So, if he now dies suddenly, there is no more suffering for him, other than possibly some discomfort at the moment of death (because within your framework, there is no rebirth). So, within your framework, can you describe the anicca, dukkha, anatta that was experienced by this person? Please use simple terms.There is no need to use philosophical phrases that are meaningless.
Siebe said: “Cultivating metta has effects on the heart chakra, for example. Seeing tilakkhana leads to a process of grounding, becoming less dreamy, an effect of sobering up.”
That is correct.
Siebe said: “Some buddhist schools have invented special purification practices based upon the understanding of these subtle processes and how they are influenced.”
That is correct too. They are deviating away from the key message and that could be distraction. It is not necessarily bad to learn about such things, but there is a danger that one could get focused on those chakras, nadis, etc and spend too much time on that.
Siebe said: “Would the Buddha disapprove? I do not know for sure ofcourse, but why would he if they are conducive to the goal of reaching Nibbana?”
If the Buddha thought those things are necessary, he would have taught them. Again, only a Buddha can teach about the samsaric suffering, whereas there are others who can teach such mundane things. He did not want to deviate from the key and critical message.
The Buddha knew much more than current scientists about nuclear power, lasers, etc. Those things could be useful to a society at a mundane level. But they are not necessary (and could become distractions) in pursuing Nibbana. If one understood the true dangers of the rebirth porcess, one would not spend much time on such topics.
However, when one is sick, one MUST seek medical advice. Without getting better, one cannot pursue the Path to Nibbana. So, we need to keep that in mind too. If one can get rid of some bodily aches by practicing yoga or just to maintain physical health, it is prudent to learn and practice yoga. I myself do yoga, but I can learn those techniques from websites/books specialized in yoga. There in no need for me teach yoga or to discuss those techniques here.
So, let us not mix up Buddha Dhamma with yoga or chakras or nadis.
Just published the post on this and other related issues:
“Sammā Ditthi – Realization, Not Memorization“.Buddha Dhamma is NOT for providing relief to pains and aches or to provide temporary physical relief (even though the practice could help in some instances). Buddha’s message was focused on providing relief from the samsaric suffering (in the rebirth process), which can be unimaginably harsh.
This is why the Buddha banned bhikkhus from engaging in mundane activities to act as doctors, astrologers, yogis, etc. This is not to say that those are not important. But there are others who can provide such remedies: doctors can help with physical pains and illnesses, astrologers can help those who believe in such things, anariya yogis can help with breath meditations, anariya jhanas, chakras, nadis, etc, etc.
Siebe said: “I belief, we cannot really say that only what is mentioned in the Canon has buddha’s approval.”
That is NOT correct. The Buddha taught for 45 years, and literally ALL he taught was remembered by Ven. Ananda (and he made sure to get approval of that material from the Buddha) and they were all incorporated to the Tipitaka.
So, it is safe to say that the Pali Canon, Tipitaka, would not have anything significant missing.
@Siebe: What you said in the above:
“A bit salt in not much water will give very salty water. But the same amount in a river cannot even be detected. This is mentioned in AN3.100 (numbering Bodhi). Thanissaro numbers AN3.99:
Lonaphala Sutta: The Salt CrystalThat is correct with regard to any situation, not only in this particular case. And that is an important point. When one habitually does many punna/kusala kamma, they accumulate and tend to dilute the effects of any occasional papa/akusala kamma.
In addition to the examples given in that sutta, we can consider the following too: When a $1000 check bonces off of an account at a bank, where one has only $500 in all accounts at the bank, that is a big problem. However, if that person had a million dollars in another account at the bank, then that is not a problem at all.
Another example similar to the one is the sutta: Sometimes we see standing water in a ditch by the roadside. It could be discolored and even smelly. However, when a good rainfall comes, all that dirty stuff will be washed away. The Buddha called this “rivers of punna/kusala kamma washing off many small accumulations of papa/akusala kamma“.
When one has “a lot of reserves of good”, an occasional misstep or misdeed is not going to affect the overall situation.
In the above post, I was mainly referring assisted suicide in the cases of old age/terminal illness.
However, in the case of young, healthy people committing suicide due to depression/breakup of relationships etc, it is a different situation. In such cases, they may generate hateful/angry thoughts towards others or themselves and that is bad for them. They are not only terminating this life, but could be also terminating what is left of their human bhava.
Therefore, in such cases, Johnny’s reasoning is valid.
