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Y not asked: “Again, who is it who ‘with iddhi powers can pull the manōmaya kaya out of the physical body and who does the ‘separating his/her own mental body (gandhabba) from the physical body’? “
No matter how many times you ask, that does not change the answer: It is the “one” who perceives “me” that comes out of the physical body. We cannot think of this in conventional terms. Both views “there is a self” and “there is no self” are NOT correct for anyone before the Arahant stage.
As long as there are causes and conditions, there will be an entity perceiving a “self”, which is the result of those causes and conditions; but that “self” keeps changing because those causes and conditions keep changing. This is why I used the term “dynamic self”. There is an entity that perceives a “self”, until the Arahant stage.
It is the “one” who perceives “me” that comes out of the physical body, which is just an inert “shell”. One could call it “the mental self” if that helps. If I try to explain it anymore, a lot more people may get confused.
In ultimate reality, there is no “person”. Whatever one perceives to be “myself” keeps evolving: could be human in this life, could be an animal or a deva in the next. Even in this life, that “person” changes all the time (to put it in another way, one’s gati can change).
This is a deep issue to comprehend. One thing I can say to everyone is that answers to these kinds of questions become clear when one focuses on the practice. These cannot be resolved JUST by reading. Reading the correct material is IMPORTANT, but contemplating and comprehending is EVEN MORE critical. However, in order to comprehend things, it is first NECESSARY to set the background for the mind by cultivating sila; see, “Sīla, Samādhi, Pannā to Pannā, sīla, Samādhi“.
When one gets rid of the 10 types of micca ditthi things become easier to grasp. When one starts comprehending Tilakkhana, the change will be huge.
Of course, I am not judging you or anyone else, because I don’t have any idea about each individual. But I hope everyone will read the above carefully and contemplate on it. Just reading this website will not be fully productive.
P.S.The “mental body” above actually has a trace of matter: hadaya vatthu and five pasada rupa (called kammaja kaya), and also a very fine body.
P.P.S. (6/13/18): Most important thing is that citta (thoughts) arise in the mental body (gandhabba), specifically at the hadaya vatthu. So, that is where the perception of “me” is.
@inflib: Yes. The Buddha said that the best way to overcome cravings is to think about their bad consequences.
inflib said: “So, would this be a form of kusala kamma as it is eliminating defilements? Does it matter that I’m the only one benefiting from it?”
– Of course. Each person can only cleanse one’s own mind.Johnny_Lim said: “Does it imply that during the last moments of death of an Arahant, he/she would not see any nimitta? Or does he/she still see nimitta but is unfazed by it?”.
– It is the latter. An arammana (or nimitta) comes to the mind based on what types of kamma beeja are there. An Arahant would not grasp any.
A Sotapanna‘s mind would not grasp any nimitta corresponding to a birth in the lowest four realms.This should be clear from my previous set of answers.
It is difficult for most people to imagine a “me” without a solid body. One who has experienced OBE (Out-of-Body Experience) in a heart operation would know exactly what it means.Just published two posts related to this question. These two posts are VERY important since they also clarify kammakkhaya (and removal of asava/anusaya and gati):
Welcome to the forum, Angelo!
This is a bit deep sutta. I need to think about how to formulate the answer. I may have to write a new post. Thank you for the excellent question.
The post published yesterday clarifies this further:
“Pathama Metta Sutta“.That is not the right sutta. That is one of those suttas made up by the Mahayanists.
You said: “Regardless of the nature of the above source, it seems like he traveled, and got lost, physically, and that he was able to do this because of his supernormal power?”
Yes.And there is another sutta that gives the basic idea. There Rohitassa, when he was a yogi with supernormal powers tried to find “the end of universe” and died on the way. He was reborn a deva, and came to the Buddha to tell his story: “Rohitassa Sutta: To Rohitassa“.
Questions from y not:
“Put simply: who is in charge here?”
Gandhabba is ALWAYS in charge.“Does the gandhabba in any way have influence over the decisions taken by the brain?”
Gandhabba MAKES decisions and those orders are carried out by the brain. However, the gandhabba gets information about the external VIA THE BRAIN. So, if the brain does not function well (due to brain damage or even via influenced by drinking/drugs), then the gandhabba will get “bad information” and make bad decisions.
– This is an important point to understand. It is discussed in those posts; there are several related posts. I suggest to do a search on “gandhabba” and read all of them. It is complex issue.“.Does it follow that the gandhabba is the one NOT making you type or speak when you are weighing the pro and cons.”
The critical point to understand is YOU are the same as GANDHABBA, the mental body. The physical body is just a “temporary housing”. Again, these issues could be resolved by reading all those posts at the website. Of course, ask questions if an explanation in a given post is not clear. But one needs to go through those posts. It is NOT possible to explain things in a single post.
There are two main sections on gandhabba:
“Mental Body – Gandhabba” and “Gandhabba (Manomaya Kaya)“.I would start with those. There are other posts in other sections too, but that is a good start.
Thanks for the reference, Lang. Yes. That is the right one on Mahanama.
You said:”Wherever Ven. Moggallana “went”, it would have been in one of the 31 realms, would it not? Someone of his caliber certainly would not have been lost in one of those realms.”
No, that is not where he got lost.
– There are an uncountable number of Cakkavata (or Star systems with planets around them). Ours is the called the Solar system because it is centered around Sun.
– Like that, most of the stars in the universe have planetary systems like that. EACH OF THEM has 31 realms!
– There are billions of stars in our galaxy, the Milky Way. And there are billions of galaxies like that!
– Of course scientists have not yet found life in even a single star system. However, the closest star is 4 light years away. To get an idea of that distance think about the fact that it takes only 8 minutes for light from our Sun to get to Earth, i.e., if one one traveled at the speed of light it will take only 8 minutes to get the Sun. But even at that speed (which cannot be reached), it will take FOUR YEARS to get to the nearest star. So, don’t expect scientists to find life in other star systems anytime soon.So, the universe out there is mind-boggling; see the video in, “The Grand Unified Theory of Dhamma – Introduction“.
That is where Ven. Moggalana got lost.@Eric: I am not sure how I (or anyone here) can help you. You have dismissed my prior suggestions. I am not a psychologist anyway, so you don’t need to take my advice.
From your previous posts, I can see that you have a sharp mind; you just need to direct it in the right direction. Here is another set of suggestions for the last time:
- Before comprehending Tilakkkhana, one needs to setup the background. I say this all the time to everyone, so it is not just you. In your case it is even more important, since you need to get out of the “mental trap” that you are in.
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I hope you will try very hard to stick to a diet and NOT get back to obesity. One does not need to count calories, but needs to eat reasonably healthy food.
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You have said that you let the sink overflow with dirty dishes. That is a bad habit. Try to make a resolution to get rid such bad habits (which includes over eating). Try to keep the house or the apartment clean and well-lighted. Darkness can darken the mind too.
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Get into an exercise program. You can start by taking walks out in the Sun. Sunlight is necessary for good health too.
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Stop playing video games, and cut down on TV. Don’t associate with those who drink, take drugs, and in general “bad company”. Start reading books if you have any liking for reading. Read posts at this website (in sections that like). Just try to occupy time with useful things.
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Most of all, stop having “self-pity” and keep thinking about depressing thoughts.
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When you get the temptation to violate any of the above, think about the bad consequences of getting back to those bad habits. The Buddha said that best way to avoid bad actions is to pause and think about their bad consequences; the Pali word is adeenava if you want to look up at the website.
Anyway, these are just suggestions.
These things take time to show results. Don’t expect results in a few days. If you like, try the above for 6 months and see whether any of them helps. You can turn your life around, but only if you can take the initiative and stick to the plan.
Tobias said: “What is brahmavihara (brahma+vihara)?”
I will discuss in the future the misunderstood concept of brahmavihara. I just wanted to introduce it here to get a start (Of course, it is mentioned in the sutta too).
Tobias said: “…one MUST have removed the 10 types of miccā ditthi even to cultivate anāriya jhāna”
That is new to me. Can you please elaborate on this?”This is an important point. This is the reason that most people in the West have a hard time getting into jhana. On the contrary, there are many people in the East who can get to anariya jhanas. This is mainly because those in the West are heavily influenced by modern science and thus dismiss rebirth (and laws of kamma) as nonsense, which of course belong to 10 types of micca ditthi.
– We can think about it this way. Jhanic states are higher lying realms in the 31 realms. We have 11 lower-lying realms in the kama loka. Then we have 16 higher-lying rupavacara realms, and even higher-lying 4 arupavacara realms. Kama loka realms have all five senses, and those beings enjoy kama or sense pleasures.
– Rupavacara beings only enjoy seeing and hearing. They are born there simply because, while being human, they had seen the drawbacks of sense pleasures and HAD CULTIVATED rupa jhanas by either SUPPRESSING or REMOVING the craving for sense pleasures, i.e., they had cultivated anariya or Ariya jhanas.Therefore, both types of jhana (Ariya or anariya) essentially REQUIRES one to believe in the rebirth process and the laws of kamma. EVEN SUPPRESSING the desire for sense pleasures is not an easy task. That is impossible to do without getting rid of the first level of “wrong views” about this world, the 10 types of micca ditthi.
Of course, comprehending Tilakkhana is the removal of the deeper layer of micca ditthi.
Post published: “Pathama Metta Sutta“.
Hello Johnnyd237, and Welcome to the forum!
Johnny asked me the question in an email and I asked him to post it here, so that it can benefit others. I will translate the complete sutta in a couple of days.
Welcome to the forum, kanhlk!
One becomes a Sotapanna by comprehending the real nature of this world of 31 realms (Tilakkhana) by LEARNING that from an Ariya (Noble Person) who himself learnt from such a person. That lineage can be traced back the Buddha Gotama.
On the other hand, one becomes a Buddha by DISCOVERING the real nature of this world by himself.
Once one becomes a Sotapanna, there is no need to figure out the real nature of this world himself. Thus, by definition, a Sotapnna (or one with higher magga phala) CANNOT become a Buddha.
You said: “Jotipala became a monk and delivered Buddhdharma for many of the others person who were there at Kassapa Budhdha Shasana, he had good knowledge
If that is so i really can’t undestand what actually prevent him at least became sothapana during that time ?”
As pointed out above, IF Jotipala attained the Sotapanna stage, he would not be able become a Buddha. Furthermore, one who is making “paramita” to become a Buddha will not “accidentally” or otherwise attain any magga phala on the way.You also asked how one can identify the true Sotapanna stage. There are many posts at the site on that. Do a Search using the Search box at top right with “Sotapanna” and you will get many relevant posts. But here is one: “How Does One Know whether the Sotapanna Stage is Reached?“.
Hi Alay,
There is a very basic fact that comes from Abhidhamma, and one does need to have a good knowledge of Abhidhamma to see this point. There are 7 universal mental factors (cetasika) that arise with ANY citta (thought) of ANY living being: vedana, sanna, cetana, manasikara, phassa, jivitindriya, and ekaggata.
The key point relevant to the question is that not only puppies but all animals (down to fish and ants and amoeba) have feelings (vedana) and perceptions (sanna) at their own levels. They all feel suffering, especially bodily suffering. As part of their strong kamma, the animals cannot show their emotions, so one would even not have pity on them. For example, fish cannot cry (or laugh); their bodies are not designed by kamma to do that. So, just because we cannot see them crying, does not mean they don’t feel pain. At least in fish, the suffering is quite clear: they writhe with pain dangling by those hooks; see, “It’s Official: Fish Feel Pain“.
And they also have sanna (perceptions) about their experience. Obviously the dogs and cats recognize their owners, and as you pointed out, remember those who have harmed them.
The most precious thing for EACH living being is their life. When someone takes care of them, they appreciate it and show it in whatever form they can. Even though some dogs show a trace of “smiling”, some others can show their appreciation only by body language, mostly by wagging their tails. And when get threatened, they show their displeasure by whatever form they can: dogs bark and bit; cats scratch, etc.
The only significant thing animals cannot do is to make plans to make their lives better. My daughter’s dog very much likes to sun bathe in her cot, but when the Sun moves away from her cot she does not realize that she can pull it to the right place easily. We have to do that for her.
– While birds have been building nests for billions of years, their “designs” have not changed at all.So, the bottom line is that animals do have lobha,dosa, moha. But they are mostly robots, even those some higher animals have minor planning capabilities.
– But they can kill out of anger, greed, and of course moha too. Especially “higher animals” can show those when they fight for food, territory, mates, etc. But lower animals like amoeba “just have to take much of the sufferings come their way”. Of course, those in the niraya (hell) have no options at all. They just suffer without having any ability to respond or to lessen the suffering.
