May 16, 2018 at 1:57 pm #15729
“Bhikkhus, a (pure) citta has pabhassara nature. That citta is contaminated by
defilements (keles or klesha). A normal human who has not heard my Dhamma (assutavā puthujjano) is not aware of this true nature. I do not recommend citta bhāvanā to them“.
“Citta bhavana” : it’s about thoughts contemplation / insight meditation i suppose…?
“I do not recommend citta bhāvanā to them“. Why ? Because he/she would be aware (or not enough aware…) of thoughts in the wrong way, without having not even achieved a basic integration of Tilakhanna ?
May 16, 2018 at 2:43 pm #15730sybe07Spectator
Hi, do you refer to AN1.51?
“Luminous, bhikkhus, is this mind, but it is defiled by adventitious
defilements. The uninstructed worldling does not understand
this as it really is; therefore I say that for the uninstructed
worldling there is no development of the mind.”
“Luminous, monks, is the mind. And it is defiled by incoming defilements. The uninstructed run-of-the-mill person doesn’t discern that as it actually is present, which is why I tell you that — for the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person — there is no development of the mind.”
May 16, 2018 at 3:28 pm #15732
Well Siebe i’m inclined to say that it’s the same sutta,yes, and that all the 3 translations say the same just with different words.
The translation i posted is from Lal’s pdf book, i find it very clear, perhaps clearer than “development of the mind”… why ? Well because – imo – cleansing the mind is much more about “removing” than about “adding” and development suggests much more the latter (adding) than the former (removing)…
May 16, 2018 at 11:01 pm #15745LalKeymaster
Embodied is referring to the post: “Citta, Manō, Viññāna – Stages of a Thought“, which is an advanced post.
Here is #16 from that post:
Aṅguttara Nikāya 1; Accharāsaṅghātavagga; Sutta #51 is a very short sutta. Here is the complete sutta: “Pabhassaramidaṃ, bhikkhave, cittaṃ. Tañca kho āgantukehi upakkilesehi upakkiliṭṭhaṃ. Taṃ assutavā puthujjano yathābhūtaṃ nappajānāti. Tasmā ‘assutavato puthujjanassa cittabhāvanā natthī’ti vadāmī”ti.
Translated: “Bhikkhus, a (pure) citta has pabhassara nature. That citta is contaminated by defilements (keles or klesha). A normal human who has not heard my Dhamma (assutavā puthujjano) is not aware of this true nature. I do not recommend citta bhāvana to them“.
The citta bhavana referred to here is the same as anywhere else: It is always the Anapanasati/Satipattahana. One needs to be mindful always, and cultivate good thoughts that come to the mind and reject bad thoughts.
That becomes really effective only when one starts comprehending Tilakkhana. Anyone who has not, is an assutavā puthujjano. Then they do it at the mundane level. One who is doing “breath meditation” is even below that, because that does absolutely nothing to purify the mind.
May 17, 2018 at 1:24 am #15748
Thank you for confirm/ clarify.
I’m persuaded that anyone enough diligent,disciplined and “ardent” can understand Tilakhanna at all levels. And of course one shouldn’t limit one’s sessions to just breath meditations : I suppose – i hope -that we are definitely conscious of such,here.
But @Lal seen that we are talking about this, let me ask you: it’s true that Ananda,Buddha’s disciple and
“valet”,voluntarily died of combustion by practicing the Kasina fire ? Just for global historical purposes.
P.S. – pls note what I wrote about the relation between citta bhavana and Tilakhanna in my opening post.
May 17, 2018 at 7:35 am #15753
@Lal said “One who is doing “breath meditation” is even below that, because that does absolutely nothing to purify the mind.”
The thing with breath meditation is that wisely dosed it calms the mind and a calm mind it’s easier to purify.
May 17, 2018 at 6:14 am #15751sybe07Spectator
I remember sutta’s who compare purifying mind with purifying gold. Pure gold in itself has certain chararteristics, it shines, it can be processed in jewelry, it is flexible, but adventitious defilements hinder that those qualities become manifest.
The same seems to be the case with purifying mind. The pabhassara nature of mind is not created during purification it only becomes more and more experiencable because the influence of defilements get less and less. Therefor mind also becomes more flexible, better manageable, more peaceful, less heated etc.
If one does not know that mind has this peaceful and luminous nature one will probably start a wrong search for happiness. One does not see that the defilements are the real cause for the suffering.
What do you think, does this make sense?
May 17, 2018 at 7:00 am #15752
“will probably start a wrong search for happiness” …of course. But it’s not an easy process. It should be gradual.The passage from anicca to nicca, from anatta to natta until a stable state of niramisa sukha, should be gradual…
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