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An anantariya kamma breaks the current bhava.
- That means even if there is more kammic energy for the human bhava left, one will be born in an apaya when one’s physical body dies if one did an anantariya papa (apunna) kamma in this life.
- In the same way, if one cultivated a jhana (an anatariya punna kamma), one will be born in the corresponding brahma realm.
“Breaking the human bhava” involves a clear change in one’s gathi (or gati).
- When one does an anantariya papa kamma, ons’s gati changes irreversibly (not forever, but for this life).
- No matter how many punna or kusala kamma one engages in AFTER doing that anantariya kamma, one will not be able to overcome it until one pays for that kamma by spending time in the appropriate apaya.
In the case of cultivating a jhana, one has transcended the human realm and is elevated to a brahma realm (by changing one’s gati).
– But unless it is an Ariya jhana, one can lose that “better gati” by engaging in activities that corrupts one’s mind. In that case one’s gati will reveres back to human, and if does an anatariya papa kamma, one’s gati will change to that of a being in an apaya.
– When one gets to an Ariya jhana, one’s anusaya or root causes have been permanently removed. That gati can never change.Devadatta had cultivated anariya jhana. He went “downward” twice, first losing the jhanas, and then doing an anatariya papa kamma by injuring the Buddha.
This is why we need to be careful. It is easy to break something, but never easy to fix something that is broken.
– It is easy to corrupt a mind (that still has anusaya left), but it is very hard to overcome cravings and cultivate a defilement-free mind.
– The exception is that it is not possible to break a magga phala or an Ariya jhana.The key is to understand gati and how they are intricately associated with one’s mindset.
Buddha Dhamma is NOT based on kamma and kamma vipaka, even though they play a significant role.
– It is based on causes (hetu) and effects (phala).
– If we HAVE TO pay back all the bad (or good) kamma we have done, we will never be able to attain Nibbana. What is critical to do is to remove root causes (anusaya). That is always associated with magga phala. One cannot get to Ariya jhana unless one has magga phala.“it can also happen that when walking in the street and looking at a specific place where i was once with him/her, at the very moment that i look at that place I’ll think about him/her – then such thought would be triggered by the sense of sight plus the respective aggregates ?”
Yes. In this particular case, the initial “trigger” is seeing that specific place.
But there are times when thoughts come directly to the mind, without the involvement of the five physical senses.
Siebe said: “Those pannavimutti Arahants do they really not need jhana? In which sutta is this explained? ”
It is likely that all Buddhas attain the Buddhahood via jhana. There is another sutta that describes how the previous Buddha, Kassapa Buddha, attained Buddhahood the same way.
However, there is no need to go through jhanas, for those disciples with high level of wisdom (panna). They are called pannavimutti Arahants.
– Still, no matter how high one’s level of panna is one cannot attain the Buddhahood by one’s own efforts, unless it is a Bodhisattva.Furthermore, even at the time of the Buddha (before the Enlightenment of the Buddha), there were yogis who were able to get to the highest jhanas (including possibly the five ascetics).
– However, they could not attain Nibbana, because only a Buddha can attain Nibbana via his own efforts.
– One who can get to any jhana, of course can attain Nibbana once he/she comprehends the Four Noble Truths.These are discussed in detail at the “Samādhi, Jhāna (Dhyāna), Magga Phala” section.
I cannot comment on that. I don’t have time to read their 350 pages of “central teachings”.
However, it is likely to be on key suttas, so could be fine (If the translations are good).
I just don’t know what is in there.
Yes. Even the Buddha could taste “sweetness in sugar”, etc. Those “kama guna” are indeed associated with each bhava; see, “Kāma Guna, Kāma, Kāma Rāga, Kāmaccanda“.
A “bad gati” would be to have CRAVING for them. When one attains Nibbana, one gets rid of lobha, dosa, moha. That is all one gets rid of.
P.S. 8/10/23:
The “sweetness in sugar,” etc., comes from “kāma saññā” and NOT from “kāma guna.” I will explain that in upcoming posts. Thanks for pointing this out, LDF!
I see. But you don’t refer to that as “reverse order patticca samuppada (PS)”.
The annamanna paccaya is at work only for the first several steps in PS.
It does not come into play starting with: “salāyatana paccayā phassa” step.
I guess I had not specifically mentioned that in the post on annamanna paccaya.
Will add a statement to that post sometime today.The reverse order of patticca samuppada is to how how the suffering ends when the root cause of avijja is removed.
Avijja nirodha sankhara nirodha
sankhara nirodha vinnana nirodha
.
‘
Jati nirodha jara, marana, soka, parideva,… nirodha.M 148 Chachakka Sutta (and “contact”) are also discussed in the post:
“Difference between Phassa and Samphassa“.Please provide a link to the sutta when you quote a sutta.
If possible provide a link to the Pali version too.
That will make it easier for others to take a look at the sutta and comment on the question.
How to provide a link is described step-by-step here:
“How to Reply to a Forum Question““But can’t we say that seeing happiness in what is suffering, seeing attractiveness in what is repulsive, seeing self in what is not self (like the body seeing as ‘I am this body’) and seeing permanence in what is impermanent is in fact wrong view too?”
Yes. In the end they are related to the 10 types of wrong views you listed.
What do you think “seeing happiness in what is suffering” means? (or the other ones that you mentioned). Let us start with some examples you can think about.
“careless attention” is used in there for the translation of “yoniso manasikara”.
Here is the full sutta:
“Nāhaṃ, bhikkhave, aññaṃ ekadhammampi samanupassāmi yena anuppannā vā micchādiṭṭhi uppajjati uppannā vā micchādiṭṭhi pavaḍḍhati yathayidaṃ, bhikkhave, ayonisomanasikāro. Ayoniso, bhikkhave, manasi karoto anuppannā ceva micchādiṭṭhi uppajjati uppannā ca micchādiṭṭhi pavaḍḍhatī”ti.The basic idea stated in the sutta is:
“Bhikkhus, unarisen (new) wrong views arise and arisen wrong views become worse due to none other than ayoniso mansaikara“.
The critical thing to realize is that ayoniso manasikara is much more deeper than than just “careless attention”.
Ayoniso manasikara is of course the opposite of yoniso manasikara.
A given person with no comprehension of Dhamma/adhamma (what is moral/what is not) can pay his/her utmost attention and still have those problems: arising of new wrong views and the growth of existing wrong views.
Yoniso manasikara explained at: “Four Conditions for Attaining Sōtapanna Magga/Phala“.
One should always be mindful of not doing dasa akusala, and learn correct Buddha Dhamma. That is the closest to acting with yoniso manasikara. As one makes progress, one will have better yoniso manasikara.
Siebe said: “Can we really know the conditions for such breaktrough moments?”
That is true. There are many things that we cannot really explain with our limited understanding. Only a Buddha can “see” these things in full detail. For example, we will never figure out why there are only 17 citta in citta vithi. That is just how Nature works. Even the Buddha just DISCOVERED such laws.
– Another factor is that full understanding of a certain issue may come from a different angle, while comprehending a different subject.
– In any case, it is not bad to try to examine a given concept in depth. It is called “vimanasa”.However, I think I have given a reasonable explanation to the key question about why listening can be more powerful than reading the same words (and the words uttered by an Ariya can have a stronger effect than the same words uttered by a normal person, even with recordings).
– We cannot find explanations for each and every issue in Abhidhamma. It is not possible to write everything down. In fact, the Tipitaka was transmitted orally for several centuries before it was written down. I am amazed that it has just enough information, and most of the time we can fill in the blanks.
– If we fill-in-the-blanks with wrong stuff, that will become obvious sooner or later, when compared with another issue. If so, we need to take care of that, and that is how we make progress.
– That is what is meant by “self-consistency”. Everything in the Tipitaka is self-consistent.@Tobias:
You are right. I have revised #11 on that post as follows:“11.Now let us consider the consequences of sankhāra in this life, that we mentioned in #6 above. Suppose a teenager starts associating with bad friends and start drinking alcohol. Initially, he does not even like the taste of it, i.e., he may be generating a dōmanassa vēdanā due to the taste of alcohol. But with the insistence of those friends he continues drinking.”
“Then he makes a habit (gati) of it, begins to perceive the taste as a sōmanassa vēdanā, and starts making sankhāra about drinking. Even while in the middle of some other task, he starts thinking about the next party where he can drink, and what types of drinks there will be and so on.
Now “sankhāra paccayā viññāna” step in the paticca samuppāda leads to making a “new viññāna for drinking”. The more he thinks about such parties and generate those sōmanassa vēdanā, the more viññāna, nāma rupa, etc that he makes for such “drinking events”.
And the stronger that “viññāna for drinking” gets, the more he will be thinking about it (making more sankhāra). Then the habit is strengthened; see, “How Habits are Formed and Broken – A Scientific View”.I may have made similar mistakes in other posts. Thanks for finding them for me.
You said: “Obviously, an Arahant also tastes the sweetness of sugar. Does that count as a “sukha vedana”? May be this needs to be decided at how a “sukha vedana” is defined.
Is “sukha vedana” defined as “a bodily sensation”? If so, sweetness of sugar would not count as a sukha vedana.”
I am on travel, and don’t have access to my resources. But the more I think, I believe that “sukha/dukha vedana” are felt just by the body (kaya).
As discussed in the Kama Guna post, “sweetness of sugar” is a characteristic of the human bhava. Until an Arahant’s physical human body dies, he/she will feel that somanassa vedana.
It comes via “jivhanca paticca rasanca uppaddati jivha vinnanam“, “tinnan sangati phasso“, “phassa paccaya vedana“.
The somanassa vedana is indeed produced by “samphassa with gati”. The gati in this case are not just with the Arahant, but anyone in human bhava. “Sweetness in sugar” is a “human gati”; see the post on Kama Guna. For the Arahant, that gathi will also go away at Parinibbana; it is there only as long as that last human body is alive.
However, the next step: “vedana paccaya tanha” does not arise in the Arahant. That is the difference.
See: “Difference between Phassa and Samphassa”
We can discuss more if needed. This is an important point.
