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Am currently reading a book titled Modern Truths By Ekacco Bhikkhu. It is very interesting and insightful and there is one topic which I would like to bring to attention and share with dhamma friends here.
“When there is craving to go out of existence without faith in rebirth, we think the self is annihilated at the end of this life. But when there is craving to go out of existence with faith in rebirth, we think the self of this life is extinguished, and the self in the next life is someone else. Both are identity view, wrong view. The Buddha explained it to a naked ascetic called Kassapa:84
Kassapa, ‘The one who acts is the same as the one who experiences [the result]’ refers to one exist ing from the beginning. When one asserts: ‘Suffering is created by oneself’, this amounts to eternity (sassataṃ). But, Kassapa, ‘The one who acts is one, the one who experiences [the result] is another’ refers to one stricken by sensation. When one asserts: ‘Suffering is created by another’, this amounts to annihilation (ucchedaṃ).
With this annihilation view, we think: ‘What does it matter what I do? The good and bad results of my kamma will be experienced by someone else, not me!’ This view is not uncommon. The Buddha describes also an annihilation identity view85″
The last paragraph tells us that this kind of view already exists during the Buddha’s time. Clearly, someone who has this kind of view will do anything to satisfy their cravings since they would think that someone else other than them will be bearing the vipaka in their next life! The scariest thing is, we WILL NOT know what we DO NOT know until we encounter Buddha Dhamma. Nature has a brilliant way to block out past memories from all of us.
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Yes. This is a common wrong view. I have a relative, who is a physician, and tells me that if she is to be born a dog, then it is that dog who will suffer, and not her.
– I have heard basically the same argument from several others, most of them are scientists!In this regard, there are some pretas (hungry ghosts) who naturally remember their past lives as a part of their kamma vipaka. They know exactly what they had done to be born a preta.
– I don’t remember the name of the sutta, but one time Ven. Sariputta was approached by a female preta. She told him that she was his mother in a previous life, and asked for his help in getting out of her suffering. Ven. Sariputta confirmed her account and did help her. -
Another very dangerous view I would like to mention is Determinism.
Wikipedia: “Determinism is the philosophical theory that all events, including moral choices, are completely determined by previously existing causes. Determinism is usually understood to preclude free will because it entails that humans cannot act otherwise than they do.”
I recalled a colleague who has this wrong view. He told me that everything has been planned out for us. Including the conversation which is now taking place between the two of us. He ‘proved’ to me that his theory is true by asking me to go to a corner and squat down. Of course I did not do that. Then, he said I did not do as what he asked because I was not ‘programmed’ to carry out that act. And if I really did go to a corner and squat down, he would say that’s because I was ‘programmed’ to do as what was told! How ridiculous! He went on to say that we sentient beings are just like the video game characters, controlled by a powerful and mighty being above. Everything has already been dictated by this being and we are merely acting out according to his wishes.
Incidentally, I just finished listening to a bhante’s discourse on determinism and thought of sharing it with fellow dhamma friends here. And by the way, the discourse is in mandarin. Bhante mentioned that the word kamma vipaka originated from an external sect in ancient India. The external sect’s version of kamma vipaka is determinism. Bhante related two examples to illustrate some important points. 1. A lay person after attending to dhamma class, left the monastery and met a beggar outside. He was so compassionate especially after listening to bhante’s talk that he gave the beggar $50. Now, according to determinism the beggar must be a creditor and the lay person a debtor in previous life. Of all lay persons why only this lay person gave money to the beggar? Of all the places why must this beggar appear outside the monastery after the dhamma talk? Determinism said the events that take place in this present life must be due to previous life kamma. That being the case, can there be any merit for the lay person to give that $50 to the beggar? No. Because he owes it to the beggar in the previous life. And is there any wrong in the beggar to take the lay person’s money without thanking him? Again determinism said no wrong because it is only right that the creditor takes back what was owed to him. The creditor can even blame the debtor for returning the money late! 2. A motorist drives a car and knocked down a passenger. Of all places and people, why must this motorist and passenger meet in an accident? Determinism said everything is destined by past kamma. The motorist is the creditor and the passenger the debtor. Since debts must be repaid, determinism said it is only right that the motorist must knock down the passenger or the passenger to be knocked down by the motorist to repay his debt owed to the motorist in previous life. So, according to determinism, there is no wrong for the motorist to knock down the passenger. Owe debt pay debt, no wrong in present life actions right? Now, this is a very dangerous view. People who uphold this kind of view will always blame his actions and events on previous kamma and they will never strive to end suffering and see dangers in any wrong doings. He will not want to do anything and be a parasite to society. Determinism will even ‘motivate’ him to commit monstrous crime to get what he desires without considering the consequences.
Bhante mentioned that the kamma vipaka that the Buddha taught is not deterministic. It is affected, not determined, by past kamma, present actions, and external factors that relate to our present actions and vipaka brought upon us by past kamma. He gave a simile: Supposedly yesterday I bought a bottle of milk and left it in the fridge. Today I open up the bottle of milk to drink and find the taste not to my liking. The event of buying the milk took place yesterday and it is a fact. The taste of the milk which is not to my liking is the vipaka I have to endure. What I can do is to buy some oranges from the supermarket and squash them to mix with the milk to make the drink tastier. The supermarket and oranges are external things that influence the vipaka from past kamma and my present actions to yield a desirable outcome. The supermarket and oranges are built and grown by someone. I have no control over them. But through skilful means, I would be able to change the vipaka (of the bad tasting milk) to my liking. I think bhante is trying to say we have free-will to change our destiny. He summarises his talk by giving an analogy of 3 persons lifting a table, representing kamma vipaka, present life actions, and external factors. 2 of the 3 persons will influence that 1 person as much as this one person influencing the other 2. How high the table was lifted, how fast the 3 of them walk , and the height of the 3 persons will influence any one of them.
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From personal experience I find that this question about determinism is not so clear-cut.
The outcome of events in most cases will be in line with Buddhadhamma WHERE SENTIENT BEINGS ARE CONCERNED, that is, where free will to change the course of events or to minimize their impact comes into play. However in some other cases IT WOULD APPEAR that chance alone is ‘at play’ (literally).
I will make no reference to the experiences of others; three of my own have been ‘seeing’ numbers before they came up in lottery draws, accompanied by a feeling of absolute certainty. One other time I ‘saw’ the numbers on the horses finishing in the first three places at the races – and here the will and therefore the actions of the riders DO come in. Tho odds rule out pure chance,and it in not just one, but several instances. Who or what ‘sees into the future’ and then transmits (if that is what it is) I have no idea.
Has any one had similar experiences?
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Divine intervention as in our lives could be influenced by some devas and other non-human. There were accounts in the suttas that mentioned some yakkhas could drive people crazy and even kill them.
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Hmm…yakkhas…are they like tricksters? In this trickster category, I’ve had plenty. Regarding determinism, as hard as I try to get away from my kamma it’s like homing device. Different people same results.
Here’s a interesting one, I bought a large painting at the Goodwill store a year and a half ago. It’s an abstract painting with mountains, spikes, bird cages, etc. You can see a little of it behind my profile picture (which I strangely can’t remove the pic from my profile). Anyway, my life has been tracking with flow of the pictures from left to right. It’s bizarre how no matter how much I try to avoid the big black spikes, dark areas, they happen. Māras!
I’m coming to end of the painting, on the downslope of the big mountain. Hoping the Māras calm down.
Much metta!
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Trickster…interesting.
I shall relate a true account of my own. It happened to me personally. Last year I visited Sri Lanka. My guide is also a buddhist. So, we have common topic to talk about. At some point we were talking about how Buddhism has deteriorated over the years and that some monks are not really serious practitioners of the path. e.g. they use mobile devices that seem like luxury items to lay people. As he was driving, I saw a monk from afar by the roadside. He was talking on a mobile phone. My first reaction was to point out to my guide, “See! Another monk using mobile phone.”
Nothing spectacular happened until we checked into a resort style hotel that day. I went to my room, unpacked my things and settled down. When night came, I did my evening chanting and meditation. Before I went to bed, I have this habit of switching my mobile phone to airplane mode and placing it far away from my bed on a table. In the middle of the night, I woke up to visit the toilet. Then, I looked at the time on my mobile phone and drink some water to quench thirst. I clearly remembered I placed my mobile phone back on the table after I was done with it. I would never take it with me to bed. And then I went back to sleep. I could not recall for how long I had slept. Suddenly, my feet felt there was an object underneath the quilt. I tried to use my feet to feel what was that object. To my surprise, it was my mobile phone! I got up and saw with my very eyes that it indeed was my mobile phone. I was thinking, how could this be? I was dead sure I did not bring my mobile phone to bed and play with it until I slept. So how did the mobile phone land itself underneath the quilt at the end of my bed? The quilt was fully tucked over the mattress and there was no opening at all! The only reasonable reason I could think of was the thing that I said during the day – accusing the monk who was using a mobile phone to be ill-disciplined. To be honest, I did not freak out. I just found it amazing. After the episode was over, I placed my mobile phone back onto the table and continue sleeping. Of course I did not tell my guide about what happened that night as I did not want to freak him out. I strongly believe some non-human must be trying to teach me a lesson for being disrespectful to a monk. There are Dhamma-protectors who we just cannot see. Why my mobile phone and not my digital camera? Or any other objects that I brought along? To this day, I still find it inconceivable whenever I think of it. I value this kind of experience because it actually helps me strengthen my belief in Buddha Dhamma.
During this trip I got to know a bhante in a monastery. He recommended his student bhante to me and if I have any queries on Dhamma, I can consult him. When I returned back to my country, I did message the bhante and ask him some Dhamma questions. There were times he would even called me to discuss Dhamma over the phone. If someone like me before were to see this bhante using a mobile phone, will he/she be too quick to judge him? I knew I was too quick to judge and was taught a lesson to watch my mannerism.
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Ok, Johnny_Lim…your comment can’t be a coincidence! I just left a month long visit at Thēravada Bhikkhuni monastery. I like you had a judgment issue and I suffered. I call them Māras. These Māras where part of the reason I cut my visit short. I have judgements with how the Vinaya is being upheld regarding beautification and sexual orientation.
I’m just too old school to adjust to the current trends of society. Not so coincidentally, my elderly dad had a fall and I’m going to visit them to help. And, figure out where to go next.
Had a thought regarding “determinism” from the comment I made above…maybe an entire lifetime worth of kamma seeds exist regardless of where you go, so there’s no escape because we all owe each other so much debt. If a lifetime is established to settle a particular theme they’re going come regardless of the condition of mind good or bad.
P.S. the profile picture on this site isn’t the look I sport at the monastery out of respect.
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Sitting in the airport, contemplating my tanha around this patigha, seeing the danger of clinging to just create more in the future as well as compassion for the beings, I hear someone repeatedly say the word “ṭhānīya”. Most likely they were saying a different word, but through my earplugs that’s what I heard. It means a metropolis. (adj.), fit to be placed.
This makes total sense with their fragile environment and have let it go. It’s just not for me.
Coincidentally…or not, the profile picture image resolved.
Much metta!
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Hmmmm….. I had thought of that.
But then it would be that the future IS set, in some cases at least; or…or, time is not synchronized throughout the different planes of existence: what to us is the present or even the future may be already the past on the deva plane, for instance.
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Your case is quite different. It’s like you saw some sign of something that is about to happen. Like some kind of clairvoyance. People who do trekking into mountains, caves, forests etc. must be very careful not to offend deities who dwell in such places. In my younger days serving national service in the military, we heard of stories of how some seniors who urinated into bushes or trees without seeking permission. Consequently, they either had high fever or fell seriously ill.
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With reference to the post Causes + Conditions = Result?, I would like to bring up a very interesting observation to see that phenomena are born out of conditions. Imagine we want to fry an egg. We need egg, oil, and frying pan. These 3 items already exist. They are past and real. The action to ignite a fire is our volition. The fire is an external environmental factor. The moment we start cracking up the egg and frying it in the frying pan with hot oil, things are beginning to look interesting. The past items (egg, oil, frying pan) have changed. i.e. Egg has been cracked; Oil has turned hot; Frying pan has turned hot; After some time, the oil gets spewing hot and we react to this and turn down the fire a bit. i.e. Our reaction has been changed; The fire has been changed; So, we clearly see that neither the egg nor the oil, nor the frying pan determines the outcome. Neither we nor the fire determines the outcome. Nothing from the past, us, or external environmental factor can single-endedly determine the outcome. What really happened is all the variables at play are just influencing one another, constantly undergoing further changes. Phenomena is just a constant flux of the manifestation of conditions influencing one another that bear a multi-facet outlook. I personally think this is a very good exercise to help us debunk determinism and externalism. A bhante specifically mentioned that a person who sees all phenomena as being born out of conditions will not have the concept of past, present, and future. Past memories and the present are just our ‘cognitive landmarks’ when we cross-reference these two. Future is just an anticipation, an extrapolation. All these come from our ‘I-making’, ‘mine-making’ habits.
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