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Rajitha said: “So one would get killed if the person murdered someone.”
- That does not hold most of the time, even though it could happen.
Rajitha said: “What form would a Vipaka from a Lobha and Moha Kamma take?”
In all three cases, lobha, dosa, moha rooted kamma will lead to kamma vipaka based on one’s intention (types of cetasika involved) and also the javana power in the citta.
This is a good topic to understand the fundamentals of Buddha Dhamma. How kamma lead to kamma vipaka is a mystery to most people. The following a general, simplified analysis of how kamma bring kamma vipaka, which can be very complex in actual details.
First, in terms of paticca samuppada, one’s birth is according one’s gati, and one’s gati are formed according to one’s sankhara (more specifically abhisankhara): “avijja paccaya sankhara” and ‘sankhara paccaya vinnana” leads to a vinnana for a specific kamma, eventually leading to “upadana paccya bhava”, and “bhava paccaya jati”.
Suppose one is contemplating on killing another person in order to marry that person’s wife. He will be doing a lot of vaci sankhara (talking to himself) while planning the murder. That gives rise to an early stage of a kamma beeja that will grow as he keeps planning and keeps thinking about it. Those citta generate kammic energy that will feed that kamma beeja. But significantly higher energy will be added to that kamma beeja at the moment of killing.
Now, he is committing this akusala based on his desire to marry the wife of that person. Even though it is based on greed, the actual action (kamma) involved is killing and it is the dosa cetasika that arises in the killing act.
He has generated a “liking for that killing” and gets attached to that idea: that is the “pati” + “icca”. The vinnana generated is an “hateful vinnana” and the kamma is done with that “hateful vinnana”. Therefore, the bhava (or the kamma beeja) created is according to that, and when that kamma beeja brings vipaka in the future he will get a “matching bhava” and a “matching birth”, i.e., “sama” “uppada“. You can read details in the “Paticca Samuppada” section.
In another example, when one habitually kills animals, those abhisankhara keep contributing to kamma beeja that have “animal killing gati” or “gati for killing”. The actual energy feeding that gati is in the citta that arise while doing that kamma. Even though one may even enjoy killing animals, at the moment of killing, the dosa cetasika arise in the mind. The javana power involved in may be small in one act, but it builds up over repeated killings.
This is more clear when one is killing a human, where a lot more javana power arise in citta (thoughts or sankhara) while doing the killing. One needs to be really angry to kill a human. So, even killing one human may be enough to give rise to a strong kamma beeja to get a corresponding bhava in the future.
In general, kamma beeja generated via dosa citta (angry thoughts) lead to birth in the niraya (hell), where one will be in a “very angry environment” all the time, being subjected to repeated torture and killings.
It is also easy to visualize what kind of bhava can be expected for vaci and kaya sankhara generated with greedy (lobha) mindset. Such greedy gati match preta bhava, and those who have excessive greedy state of mind (and thus think, speak, and act accordingly) are likely to be born as preta (hungry ghost).
Moha character is a bit more complex. It is manifested in subtle ways: excess worrying, tendency to cry and spend hours and hours worrying about even a simple mishap are some. These gati arise because one does not realize that such mishaps are results of past kamma (kamma vipaka), and thus have their origins in the past. Some of them can be avoided, some can be managed to lessen their impact, but some cannot be avoided.
Animal bhava is associated with combinations, possibly of all three (lobha,dosa, moha). Pali and Sinhala word for animal is tirisan (or three “san”).
Anyway, this may be good topic for a future post. Let us discuss and may be I can get some more ideas from the discussion.
firewrns questions:
“For example, can we say that kamma beeja are sankata too, since they arise due to abhisankhara, and their kammic energy will fade after 91 aeons?”- Yes.
“Why didn’t The Buddha say Sabbe sankata anicca or Sabbe dhamma anicca?”
- Anicca is a perception, a state of mind. Based on the wrong state of mind of “nicca” (the opposite of anicca), we do abhisankhara (think, speak, and act or do mano, vaci, and kaya sankhara) to perpetuate this suffering-filled existence. But all those sankhara can NEVER lead to happiness in the long run. That is why it is said that “sabbe sankhara anicca“.
- A tree or a house (sankata) is not sankhara and do not lead to suffering. Also, Buddha Dhamma is not a sankhara, and does not lead to suffering.
- So, I hope the distinction is clear, as to why it is not said that sabbe sankata anicca or sabbe dhamma anicca.
“Can we say that kamma beeja (which is a dhamma) is dukkha?”
– Kamma beeja itself is not dukkha. But dukkha can arise due to a kamma beeja.
It is essential to understand key concepts/terms like sankhara:
“Mental Aggregates“.I must emphasize that this experiment does not imply that rice is conscious.
There have been other experiments on plants that showed some interesting effects; see, “The Secret Life of Plants: a Fascinating Account of the Physical, Emotional, and Spiritual Relations Between Plants and Man”, by by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird (1989).
-Those experiments have led some people to conclude that plants ate conscious.
– There have been many experiments on water as well; see, “The Hidden Messages in Water” by Masaru Emoto (2005).But, it is not that rice, plants, or water has consciousness. But our thoughts can affect them. In a way, it is really about setting background conditions.
– In a practical example, when we don’t keep our houses clean, it becomes an environment for insects and bugs to thrive. Not only that, but unseen beings with “bad character” are attracted too. The they can affect the minds of those who live in the house. Such effects are not obvious, but can be seen in extreme cases.When other people tried to repeat those experiments, they did not get similar results. But that is because, they did not have the right mindset as I pointed out above.
Our world is very complex. Power of human mind is unbelievable. But again, I don’t want people to start exploring these phenomena. It is just that this is another piece of evidence of the power of the human mind.
y not: A Buddha did not come to this world from a deva world. It was a human baby, prince Siddhartha, that was born in the human world. He attained the Buddhahood and became Buddha Gotama at the age of 35 years.
Thank you very much, Eric, for posting this video.
I hope everyone will not only watch, but think deep about this.
It will be great if some of us can repeat this experiment and report here.
The key is to realize that it is not words that matter, but the true, heartfelt intention, as the wise lady in the video emphasized. This is why the experiment may not work for some, who mechanically do the experiment by just repeating kind/good words and bad/hateful words. One needs to speak with the true mindset, whether good or bad.
That is true in doing metta bhavana too. It is not the words, but the intention that really matters.
y not said: ” Of course, a Buddha who takes on a human form after leaving the Tavatimsa is another concept altogether.”
Why is that a different concept?
Here are some critical points to remember:
- A normal human can be born in most of the 31 realms (excluding those realms reserved for the Anagamis).
- One will be eligible for all these bhava (and jati) until one attains the Sotapanna stage.
- When one is born in a “good bhava“, lobha, dosa, moha are SUPPRESSED at various levels.
- This can be explained via step-by-step removal of the dasa samyojana as well, with stages of magga phala.
– A birth (jati) is within the bhava that is grasped at the cuti-patisandhi moment. A bhava is grasped based on a kamma vipaka.
– If a good kamma vipaka (kamma beeja) is grasped one is born in sugati (good bhava): human, deva, brahma. Such kamma vipaka are rooted in alobha, adosa, amoha, i.e., those are based on meritorious deeds or punnabhisankhara (for arupavacra brahma realms anenjabhisankhara).
– If a bad kamma vipaka (kamma beeja) is grasped one is born in dugati (bad bhava): the four lowest realms. Such kamma vipaka are rooted in lobha, dosa, moha, i.e., those are based on meritorious deeds or apunnabhisankhara.– A Sotapanna will not grasp a bhava in the lowest 4 realms (apayas). There could be many such bad kamma beeja, but he/she WILL NOT grasp any of them.
– A Sakadagami will not grasp a bhava in the lowest 4 realms (apayas) and the human bhava. So, a Sakadagami can be born only in a deva or brahma bhava.
– An Anagami will not grasp a bhava in the lowest 4 realms (apayas) and anywhere in kama loka. So, an Anagami can be born only in a brahma bhava. Most are born in the rupavacara brahma realms reserved for Anagamis.
– An Arahant will not born any of the 31 realms. He/she will attain Parinibbana upon the death of the physical body.– For example, when one is born in any brahma realm, kama raga is absent as long as one is in that bhava. But that brahma may grasp a lower bhava with kama raga (say human) upon death there. In this case, it is said that kama raga remained as an anusaya during the brahma lifetime, because it had NOT been REMOVED.
– However, an Ariya will NEVER grasp a lower bhava, because he/she has REMOVED anusaya at that level. For example, a Sakadagmi will NOT be born in the human bhava or the apayas.– For example, three samyojana of sakkaya ditthi, vicikicca, silabbata paramasa are removed at the Sotapanna stage. With those three “bonds” REMOVED, a Sotapanna will never be born in the apayas.
These are important facts. Don’t hesitate to ask questions if not clear.
y not asked: “How is it that they can attain a deva realm (through magga phala) lower than that of a Sakadagami?”
This needs a bit of contemplation. Becoming free of the apayas is forever. We all have been born in the deva/brahma realms.
“In the midst of so much enjoyment, would the non-Ariya devas simply spend their entire existence enjoying sense pleasures and neglect to cultivate the path?”
Yes. Most of them would not even think about samsaric suffering, since they see very little suffering. We can get an idea about a rich, powerful, and healthy human. Would he/she have time to even think about such things. They will be busy with enjoying sense pleasures and making more money.
“Even given the fact that they may have accumulated infinite merits in their infinite existences,..”
No living being has an infinite existence. Their lifetimes may be very long in terms of our time scale that we are used to. However, even the lifetime of an arupavacra brahma (which can be many aeons), is a just a blip the samsaric time scale.
“Even in the human realm, we can imagine that some rich and powerful humans believe that suffering is only for the disadvantaged poor. They do not realize how much suffering there is, until they are severely old or sick and it is too late.
Quite true.“I am fascinated that devas and even brahmas would believe in the merits of learning and practising Dhamma. It does not seem very likely to me that they would think so..”
There are many devas/brahmas with lower stages of magga phala, below the Arahant stage. They are certainly interested in listening to Dhamma, if it is correct Dhamma (They will know the difference too). Furthermore, there could be many who are Sotapanna Anugami, and would be very much interested. They also discuss among themselves.“Do all devas and brahmas have supernatural powers?”
The term “supernormal powers” is again relative to our (human) capabilities. Each bhava has its own capabilities and drawbacks. For example, owls can see at night, but humans cannot. That could be called a supernormal power for an owl. How do some birds fly many thousands of miles during seasonal migrations? That is a “built-in” capability for them that humans do not have. There are many examples like that.
-The ability to travel long distances in short times is another characteristic of deva and brahma bhava. Not only them, but also human gandhabbas can travel at high speeds too (they have fine bodies that allow that); however, they cannot travel to deva/brahma realms, they can travel only within the human realm.Again, we can only speculate about some of these things. But we do know that devas/brahams came to see the Buddha, because many such incidents are described in the Tipitaka.
Just to remind, the basic process of cultivating paramita to become a Buddha is discussed in the post, “Paramita and Niyata Vivarana – Myths or Realities?“.
Each jati can be traced to back to the types of (abhi)sankhara that one cultivates. The difference between a Buddha and a Paccekabuddha can be traced back to their thought processes (abhisankhara).
A Buddha (rather a Bodhisattva) is determined to find the truth about this world, thereby find the way to stop the samsaric suffering AND to help others to be free of suffering.
– On the other hand, one who is to become a Paccekabuddha just wants to find the truth about the nature of this. He may not even be thinking about how to stop the samsaric suffering (of course I am not certain about that). But that seems to make sense.We also need to realize that those terms of Buddha and Paccekabuddha may not even not known to those persons while they are fulfilling paramita. They just proceed based on their “gati“. The ultimate result is based on the particular gati cultivated.
– In this context, the term Buddha was known when the Gotama Buddha (price Siddhartha) was born, simply because there were three other Buddhas before him, and the Vedas transmitted the vague concept of a Buddha (and definitely the term Buddha).
– In most Maha kappas (world cycles), there is only one Buddha (or none), and in these cases, the term Buddha becomes known only after the Enlightenment of that Buddha.
– So, even though we think that a person would start cultivating abisankhara (gati) SPECIFICALLY to become a Buddha or a Paccekabuddha, that is not correct. Even those terms may not be known in 99% of the time. One may need to think about this a bit to realize my point.In this context, a Paccekabuddha probably does not even use that term to describe himself. He may even teach Dhamma to others, but may not be capable to communicating the right way or to explain the what he has grasped. As we know, it is very hard to comprehend (and also to teach) the “anicca nature”. Only a Buddha (and those who have comprehended that particular way of teaching) can do that.
– Also, providing food to those who come asking for food is not necessarily done with an expectation of something (in this case teaching) in return. We may have a visualization of a Paccekabuddha dressed in a yellow robe, but in reality, a Paccekabuddha could be just wearing normal (but not fancy) clothes. One could mistake him for any other person asking for food.
– Another possibility is that due to the high moral status of a Paccekabuddha, people may be automatically motivated take care of him. They of course would not even know that he is a Paccekabuddha (or even about what that term means; remember that a Paccekabuddha is born only when there is no Sammasambuddha in the world).I am of course speculating on some these, but that is what makes sense to me.
Even though it may first appear to be make it more complicated, vinnana is related to kamma beeja. It is the defiled consciousness or vinnana that creates kamma beeja: “Viññāna – What It Really Means“.
This is a critical point that only a few people understand. It is astonishing to see that some equate vinnana with Nibbana.
Yes. Those 18 entities pretty much cover everything in this world.
By cakkhu it is really meant the cakkhu pasada rupa. However, the physical eyes are needed to get the image to be sent to the cakkhu pasada rupa. So, one could contemplate the anicca nature of both. Especially at the beginning, it is easier to see the anicca nature of the physical eyes. No matter how hard we try, if we live long enough, it will be hard to maintain vision at the level that we experience when we are young.
– The same is true for other five senses. Regarding the mana indriya, the brain starts to go bad too as we get old, and that affects vision, hearing, etc too.
– And any of these physical components (physical eyes, ears,..brain) can be damaged at any time.1 user thanked author for this post.
Whether it is a tihetuka or a dvihetuka human bhava is determined at the cuti-patisandhi moment that initiates the human bhava, and then it lasts to the end of that human bhava. Therefore, all human births (jati) are within that bhava.
So, in a way, practicing Dhamma is as important if one has a dvihetuka bhava. One could make conditions for the next bhava to be tihetuka.
Of course, it is not possible to determine whether a given person has a dvihetuka or tihetuka bhava.
Akvan sadi: “If there is a method leading to nibbana it has to start with listening and comprehending the sa-dhamma, as one does not have the ability to comprehend the sa-dhamma by himself…”.
That is correct.
Just to point out “sa-dhamma” is really “sath-dhamma” (or correct dhamma), which rhymes as “saddhamma” and thus is called “saddhamma“; see, “Saddhamma Sutta (AN 10.191) AND Saddhamma Sutta (AN 10.147)” in the post: “Dasa Akusala/Dasa Kusala – Basis of Buddha Dhamma“.One of the requirements for Sotapanna phala is “listening to saddhamma” by an Ariya or a Noble person.
