Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
In the above, I wrote, “However, one must be able to interpret the meanings of certain Pali words depending on the context. For example, in many cases, phassa, vedana, sankhara, cetana refer to samphassa, “samphassa-ja-vedana”, abhisankhara, sancetana.”
- That is explained a bit more in the rewritten post I just posted: “Kamma are Done with Abhisaṅkhāra – Types of Abhisaṅkhāra“
1 user thanked author for this post.
I have explained the following in recent discussions and posts. It is good to summarize:
1. The Sutta Pitaka (and the Vinaya Pitaka) are entirely self-consistent.
- However, one must be able to interpret the meanings of certain Pali words depending on the context. For example, in many cases, phassa, vedana, sankhara, cetana refer to samphassa, “samphassa-ja-vedana”, abhisankhara, sancetana.
2. The Buddha explained the Abhidhamma framework in summary to Ven. Sariputta. The material in the Abhidhamma Pitaka was not taught to the general public during the Buddha’s time. It took over two hundred years of the combined effort of the bhikkus of Ven. Sariputta’s lineage to complete the Abhidhamma Pitaka.
- While most of the material in the Abhidhamma Pitaka is self-consistent and compatible with the Sutta Pitaka, there are contradictions in the “Paticcasamuppada Vibhanga” that I discussed above.
- In addition, one book in the Abhidhamma Pitaka seems to be missing (the one with analysis on hadaya vatthu and pasada rupa.) However, a Commentary on the Abhidhamma (translated into English by Bhikkhu Bodhi) has survived. Thus, we can “fill in gaps.”
3. In summary, we must always prefer the Sutta Pitaka (with the understanding that certain words must be interpreted based on the context, as I pointed out in #1 above.)
- While certain sections of the Abhidhamma Pitaka seem to have issues, it provides a good and self-consistent picture of Buddha Dhamma, starting with the fundamentals. Specific “knotty issues” in the Sutta Pitaka (including the issue with the correct interpretation of certain words pointed out in #1 above) can be easily resolved with Abhidhamma. The background of Abhidhamma is in “Abhidhamma – Introduction.”
- We are lucky to have enough material remaining intact to resolve any issues. We must remember that the Tipitaka was orally transmitted for about 500 years before it was written down. Even that material was slowly getting lost when English civil servants in Sri Lanka started collecting pieces of the Tipitaka scattered over numerous temples in Sri Lanka. We may have lost even more material if it wasn’t for their efforts. I have described these issues in the “Historical Background” section. It takes an effort to understand the historical background over 2500 years.
1 user thanked author for this post.
The question is whether one needs to listen to Dhamma to attain the Sotapanna stage.
- I don’t see any evidence to conclude that.
I also used to believe that one MUST listen to Dhamma to attain the Sotapanna stage because one of the conditions is “saddhammassavanaṃ” or “listen to Dhamma.”
- However, learning by reading was not available at the time of the Buddha.
- So, the suttas do not even discuss whether one can become a Sotapanna by reading.
- Therefore, while people can debate this issue forever, we will not be able to settle it.
I believe that one must learn Dhamma in any way possible. All that matters is to dispel the ignorance that this world of 31 realms can provide a suffering-free existence.
- As one cultivates wisdom (paññā), the “mental bonds (samyojana)” that bind one to the rebirth process will be broken. That is how one attains not only the Sotapanna stage but also all other magga phala.
- See “Four Conditions for Attaining Sotāpanna Magga/Phala.”
- Also, the whole process takes place in the MIND. The way I now see it: It does not matter whether the knowledge comes from reading or listening (which are just two “doors” to the mind): “Mind Operates Like a Machine According to Nature’s Laws”
We can discuss the issue further if anyone can present evidence from the Tipitaka that one cannot become a Sotapanna by reading Dhamma. Knowledge dispels ignorance, and knowledge can come from both reading and listening.
- Also, Sangha in “Sangham saranam gacchami” refers to Noble Persons. A Noble Person can be a bhikkhu or a layperson. Not all bhikkhus belong to Sangha.
- There is a word for bhikkhus who also belong to Sangha. It is bhikkhusangha.
- P.S. For example, Devadatta was a bhikkhu. He cultivated all the anariya jhanas and had supernormal powers too. But he was reborn in an apaya. He did not belong to Sangha.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Of course.
- Vatthu dasaka for a human is very different from that of an animal or a Deva, etc.
- A new vatthu dasaka is generated by kammic energy when a Deva dies and becomes a human, for example.
“I see, so at this stage, when a person thinks, is it ultimately the hadaya vatthu that consciously generates citta? “
- Yes. Cittas are always generated in hadaya vatthu.
” I would surmise that thinking involves retrieving info from memory which is also why a permanent like experience is felt.”
- Even a single citta takes into account of memories. That is how the mind recognizes a given person or an object.
- Each citta arises with seven universal cetasika (mental factors): Phassa (contact); vēdanā (feeling); saññā (perception); cētanā (volition); Ekaggata (One-pointedness); jivitindriya (life faculty); manasikāra. Recollection happens via a bit of a complex process (involving the brain) and recognition with saññā. See “Cetasika (Mental Factors).”
- The Buddha stated that the mind is the fastest entity in the world. All of the above (and more) happens within a citta lasting a billionth of a second. Of course, a single citta does not arise by itself. They usually come in packets of 17 cittas, called a “citta vithi.” When we focus on an object, billions of such “citta vithi” can run through a mind in minutes.
I have revised the post “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
- Please don’t hesitate to ask questions. If anything is unclear, I can revise it as needed.
It is good to continue this discussion. I need to finish the following post that I have been postponing:
Kusala-Mula Paticca Samuppada – Acting With Alōbha, Adōsa, Amōha
1. I used another section of the “Paticcasamuppada Vibhanga” for that original post, where it is stated:
kusala-mūla paccayā saṅkhāra; saṅkhāra paccayā viññāṇa; viññāṇa paccayā nāmarūpa, nāmarūpa paccayā saḷāyatana, saḷāyatana paccayā phasso, phassa paccayā vedanā, vedanā paccayā cittapasado, cittapasada paccayā adhimokkho, adhimokkho paccayā bhavo, bhava paccayā jāti, jāti paccayā jara, maranan, eva me tassa dhammanan samudhayo hoti.
On the other hand, the verse quoted by Zapper starts with:
Katame dhammā kusalā? Yasmiṁ samaye lokuttaraṁ jhānaṁ bhāveti niyyānikaṁ apacayagāmiṁ diṭṭhigatānaṁ pahānāya paṭhamāya bhūmiyā pattiyā vivicceva kāmehi …pe… paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati dukkhapaṭipadaṁ dandhābhiññaṁ, tasmiṁ samaye avijjāpaccayā saṅkhāro, saṅkhārapaccayā viññāṇaṁ, viññāṇapaccayā nāmaṁ, nāmapaccayā chaṭṭhāyatanaṁ, chaṭṭhāyatanapaccayā phasso, phassapaccayā vedanā, vedanāpaccayā pasādo, pasādapaccayā adhimokkho, adhimokkhapaccayā bhavo, bhavapaccayā jāti, jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇaṁ. Evametesaṁ dhammānaṁ samudayo hoti.
- Both end up with “dhammānaṁ samudayo hoti.” That is one contradiction.
2. There are two other contradictions.
- In the first verse above “kusala-mūla paccayā saṅkhāra” is a contradiction. One cannot generate sankhara via kusala-mula.” Sankhara generation happens with akusala in mind.
- In the second verse above, it starts with Katame dhammā kusalā? and then to “tasmiṁ samaye avijjā paccayā saṅkhāro.” How can be kusala associated with “avijjā paccayā saṅkhāro“?
3. Finally, kusala means to avoid from akusala. There are no specific kusala kamma. See “Kusala Sutta (AN 10.180).” The confusion is to mix up puñña kamma with kusala kamma.
- Nibbana is reached via cultivating wisdom (paññā.) This is done by fully understanding the Paticca Samuppada process. As I just pointed out in the discussion, “Witness consciousness and Buddha nature,” that leads to breaking samyojana/anusaya.
Yes. That is a good point.
I should have written that as follows (see my comment on November 28, 2024, at 8:15 pm):
- Those cittas arise (in hadaya vatthu) due to causes and conditions in the “purana kamma” stage. (see #2 below).
- Then, in #2 below, I explained the “purana kamma” and “nava kamma” stages. Kamma accumulation in the “nava kamma” stage happens consciously. This is where we have control of our thoughts while we engage in kamma accumulation via body, speech, and mind (as indicated by kaya, vaci, mano kamma or dasa akusala); see the chart in #4 of “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
- I will revise that post to include the above. It is an important point.
Once we abstain from dasa akusala, our minds become increasingly amenable to learning Dhamma. Then, we can understand the whole Paticca Samuppada process. The “automatic occurrence” of the “purana kamma” stage stops when our understanding (paññā) grows and the “mental bonds” of samyojana/anusaya break. See my earlier comment on November 28, 2024, at 9:55 am. There, I wrote:
“Let me list a few points to think about:
1. Step 8 is the critical one. As long as one has not removed certain samyojana/anusaya, that mind will automatically attach to the object if it is “an object of interest.” Conscious thinking is NOT involved.
- This is why it is so hard to resist “temptations” and lose “kama raga.”
- To remove that “automatic attachment,” one must fully understand the “true nature” (called “yathābhuta ñāṇa.”)..”
Yes. There are some contradictions in the “Paticcasamuppada Vibhanga.”
- I try to focus on the Sutta Pitaka regarding Paticca Samuppada.
There, “pi” means “also.”
- Birth, getting old, getting sick, etc., are all suffering.
However, besides the apparent mundane meaning that getting old and getting sick are suffering, there is a deeper meaning, too.
- A birth means still trapped in the rebirth process with suffering. All births end up in old age, suffering, and death.
I took a quick look at the videos.
- It seems the first video is on Vedic teachings. That is not Buddha’s teachings.
- I did not watch enough of the second video to determine whether it contained helpful information. It seems that the bhikkhu described his own meditative experience.
1. A mind arises in hadaya vatthu. It is in the manomaya kaya (mental body or the gandhabba).
- In your steps (in the earlier comment), that hadaya vatthu receives the “object” via the cakkhu pasada rupa in step #6.
- Hadaya vatthu is the “seat of the mind,” where thoughts (cittas) arise.
- Those cittas arise (in hadaya vatthu) due to causes and conditions.
- So, we know about the mind as a “defined entity.”
2. Kammic energy is generated only if raga, dosa, moha arise in the cittas.
- Kammic accumulation takes place in two stages. (i) In the “purana kamma” stage, where defiled thoughts arise automatically due to samyojana/anusaya, kammic energies generate are weak; they do not contribute to future bhava (i.e., to bring future rebirths). (ii) If the mind starts focusing on the object, then (after the “tanha paccaya upadana” step in Paticca Samuppada) potent kammic energies (that can bring future rebirths) are generated via conscious thoughts. That is the “nava kamma” stage.
- I don’t know whether you read the post “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.” You probably started reading this website after it was posted on 1/11/24. See “New / Revised Posts.” A series of posts after 11/4/23 focused on a deeper analysis.
3. I do not understand what you are trying to say in steps #1 through #5 in your last comment.
The seven steps that Taryal wrote are correct.
We can itemize what Taryal wrote after that, too:
8. “So far, it is a plain awareness (vipāka viññāṇa). But if it is an object of interest, the initial attachment is automatic.
9. Then, the person can choose to generate conscious thoughts about the object or try to avoid it by distracting themselves. I think this is what causes the perception of ‘I’ or ‘me’. But if a single condition above is removed, awareness of the object can not occur..”
Let me list a few points to think about:
1. Step 8 is the critical one. As long as one has not removed certain samyojana/anusaya, that mind will automatically attach to the object if it is “an object of interest.” Conscious thinking is NOT involved.
- This is why it is so hard to resist “temptations” and lose “kama raga.”
- To remove that “automatic attachment,” one must fully understand the “true nature” (called “yathābhuta ñāṇa.”)
- That means one must understand why we are attached to specific objects. We experience a “sweet taste” with honey, attractive odors of flowers or sounds, the beauty of a woman, etc.
- The stronger the attachment, the more likely one would like to make the object “mine.”
2. All those enticing experiences arise with “sanna” built into our mental and physical bodies.
- Each species has its own set of “appealing objects.” Of course, some could be overlapping, but there are distinct differences.
- For example, humans and bears find honey sweet, cows find grass appealing, and lions and tigers eat only the flesh of other animals.
3. The basic idea is in several suttas. I will list only two for now: “Saññā Sutta (AN 6.110)“, “Saññānānatta Sutta (sn 14.7),”
- Another is “Saññā Sutta (SN 26.6).” @ 1.3: “Yo kho, bhikkhave, rūpasaññāya uppādo ṭhiti …pe…jarāmaraṇassa pātubhāvo …pe…” means “The arising of (distorted) perception of sights leads to old age and death.” (i.e., suffering).” Note that the English translation there did not even translate the critical second part of the verse.)
- Then, @ 1.5, “Yo ca kho, bhikkhave, rūpasaññāya nirodho …pe…jarāmaraṇassa atthaṅgamo …pe…” meaning “The cessation of (distorted) perception of sights is the ending of old age and death.”
- That distorted saññā is built into our bodies via Paticca Samuppada. Therefore, it cannot be removed. However, understanding this mechanism (i.e., cultivating paññā) leads to breaking the “kama raga“ samyojana. Hence, an Arahant or Anagami would also taste honey to be sweet or a particular woman to be attractive, but their minds will not generate kama raga.
1 user thanked author for this post.
The following post also provides more information about this subject:
“Loka Sutta – Origin and Cessation of the World“
2 users thanked author for this post.
