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Good question, Dosakkhayo.
1. The concepts of jhana and kasina have been badly interpreted in current Theravada texts.
– Buddhaghosa’s Visuddhimagga is mostly responsible for that.2. We need to start with understanding the FUNDAMENTAL idea of Nibbana.
– Even though relatively little suffering manifests in realms higher than the human realm, a “living being” spending most of the Samsaric journey in the lowest four realms (apayas) filled with suffering. Thus, the Buddha taught that this world of 31 realms is filled with suffering.3. “Full Nibbana” (Parinibbana or the “complete release from suffering”) is attained at the death of an Arahant. That Arahant will not be reborn in any of the 31 realms.
I need to keep repeating those basics because many people have not grasped those ideas (I am not directing this to Dosakkhayo). I just want to emphasize the foundation.
4. Thus, any meditation where the focus of the mind is a “worldly object” CAN NOT be a Buddhist meditation.
– In the “Samādhi Sutta (AN 10.6)” the Buddha explained that to Ven. Ananda.
– There Ven. Ananda asks the Buddha whether there is a Samatha meditation (samādhi bhāvanā) in Buddha Dhamma that is not based on kasina or other (e.g., breath) meditation.
– Instead of contemplating worldly things, one MUST contemplate the unfruitful nature of worldly things. That is vipassana meditation (as explained in the Anapanasati Sutta and in even more detail in the Satipatthana Sutta.
– If someone with magga phala likes to cultivate jhana (with Samatha meditation) they should contemplate the Nibbana that they have experienced (at that level):
“‘etaṁ santaṁ etaṁ paṇītaṁ yadidaṁ sabbasaṅkhārasamatho sabbūpadhipaṭinissaggo taṇhākkhayo virāgo nirodho nibbānan’ti.”
– While anariya yogis get to Samatha (and anariya jhana) with the traditional kasina and breath meditation (detailed in Visuddhimagga) Ariyas (Nobel Persons) attain Nibbana with the above verse.
– That is what the Buddha explained to Ven. Ananda. The above verse is in that sutta. Note that the English translation could be misleading in some places, but one can get the general idea with my explanation. That translator, just like any other current Theravada teacher, still practices traditional kasina/breath meditations!5. Of course, #4 requires more details. I will start on a series of posts on jhana/kasina with the next post.
– I just got started on a series of posts on Anapanasati, but that needs to be on hold.
– That is fine because this background on jhana/kasina should be understood first.6. Let me address the question by Dosakkhayo briefly. I will discuss that in detail in the upcoming posts. The following is the verse he quoted:
“Dasa kasiṇāyatanāni pathavīkasiṇaṁ āpokasiṇaṁ tejokasiṇaṁ vāyokasiṇaṁ nīlakasiṇaṁ pītakasiṇaṁ lohitakasiṇaṁ odātakasiṇaṁ ākāsakasiṇaṁ viññāṇakasiṇaṁ. Tattha yañca pathavīkasiṇaṁ yañca āpokasiṇaṁ evaṁ sabbaṁ, yañca odātakasiṇaṁ. Imāni aṭṭha kasiṇāni samatho. Yañca ākāsakasiṇaṁ yañca viññāṇakasiṇaṁ, ayaṁ vipassanā. Evaṁ sabbo ariyo maggo yena yena ākārena vutto, tena tena samathavipassanena yojayitabbo.”
– Note that the verse refers to “Dasa kasiṇāyatana” or “ten kasina āyatana“.
– This DOES NOT refer to kasina OBJECTS.
– Anything in this world related to one or more of those “kasina āyatana“. Material things are made of pathavi, apo, tejo, and vayo and are located in ākāsa. Some objects have colors represented by nila, pita, lohita, and odāta. All “nāma dhammā” are associated with viññāṇa.
– Thus, to get to Nibbana (Arahanthood) saññā for all ten of those kasina āyatana must be uprooted. That needs a detailed explanation. That is what I will be doing with the new series of posts.7. The relevant point to remember is the following.
– Traditional kasina meditations or breath meditation can get one to jhana. One who cultivated such jhana WILL BE reborn in a Brahma realm.
– However, once that lifetime ends, rebirth in the human realm will take place first, and after that rebirth in ANY realm (including apayas) will again be “in effect”. That is why it is useless to cultivate traditional kasina meditation (with kasina objects like clay balls/water bowls, etc) or with breath meditation.I will respond to your first post later. I need to reply to another comment first.
But regarding your most recent comment: You don’t see the PRINT/PDF button at the bottom of each page? You should be able to download a pdf of a post AND print a post.
Questions and answers:
“Since the gandhabba (manomaya kaya) combined with pasada rupa, are ON all the time, can I assume that this is the MEMORY circuit (so to speak)?”
I wrote that gandhabba is alive (i.e, not dead). But it is not “ON” until an arammana comes in. I think I explained that.
– It is like a drum is there, but there will be no sound until something strikes it.
– That sound is like the consciousness. No consciousness until an arammana hits the hadaya vatthu (either directly with dhammā or via the five pasada rupa.)
– There is no “memory circuit”. What would that be? There is no need for such a thing.“If the brain does not produce consciousness (which I do not believe it does), why am I still me when I wake up in the morning or when a person who has been in a coma for 10 years regains consciousness and is the same person as before the coma?”
– You are the same you because the gandhabba (with the same anusaya, gati) is the same!
– Of course, anusaya and gati can change, but that happens over time, with understanding.“Is the gandhabba directly responsible for this?”
Of course, it is. The gandhabba (hadaya vatthu plus pasada rupa) is you. The physical body with the brain lasts only about 100 years, but a human gandhabba may live for thousands of years.
– The bain dies with the physical body. Gandhabba comes out and waits for another womb to make another body.
– As we have discussed, gandhabba is created by kammic energy and will last until that kamiic energy is spent. That is the end of “human bhava” within which one is reborn with a physical body many times.
– When that gandhabba dies, another one will be created by kammic energy, unless one has attained the Arahant stage. That new gandhabba can be born in any of the 31 realms. Of course, we normally reserve the word gandhabba only for humans and animals. But Devas/Brahmas also have hadaya vatthu/pasada rupa, so it is the same concept.I recommend going back and reading more posts on gandhabba:
“Search Results for: gandhabba”
– I do understand that it is a bit complex subject.The key is to understand the relationship between hadaya vatthu and the brain.
The following are the key points:1. Citta and thoughts (or consciousness) arise in hadaya vatthu.
2. But all six signals from the external world (sights through dhammā) come in via the brain.
3. While being unconscious the brain is totally inactive. Even while in deep sleep it is mostly inactive.
– For citta to arise in hadaya vatthu, there must be an arammana coming through one of the six senses.
– Thus, if the brain is not active, no citta vithi can be triggered, and thus no consciousness.
4. However, the gandhabba (hadaya vatthu plus pasada rupa) is alive at all times. But no citta vithi can arise until the hadaya vatthu is triggered.
5. Each citta has AT LEAST the seven universal cetasika: Phassa (contact); vēdanā (feeling); saññā (perception); cētanā (volition); Ekaggata (One-pointedness); jivitindriya (life faculty); manasikāra (memory).
– However, normally other cetasika also arise. There are 52 cetasika including vedana and saññā, and any citta with cetasika has saṅkhāra. Since “mano saṅkhāra” are defined as “vedana and saññā”
saṅkhāra are ALWAYS in a citta.
6. See, “Cetasika (Mental Factors)” for details on cetaiska.
7. Further details on the role of the brain at; “Brain – Interface between Mind and Body”If not clear, please feel to ask questions.
Yes. There was a post with that title.
The analysis there is not incorrect in the way it was done.
– However, it may lead to a “possible contradiction issue” because of the following. Most references in the Tipitaka refer to three stages/lakkhana of a sankhata: Uppāda (arising), ṭhiti (existence), vaya (destruction). See, for example, “Saṅkhatalakkhaṇa Sutta (AN 3.47).”
– That is why I removed it.As I remember, it discussed human life through five stages: born a baby, growing to a young age, enjoying life at that young age, getting to the middle age and experiencing discomforts/sicknesses, etc, and then dying.
– So nothing inherently wrong with that analysis. But I didn’t want to leave room for the possibility of inconsistency with the Tipitaka.Yes. That is a good description.
– But the Pali word is assāda, not assadā.
– We attach to some things (visuals, sounds, etc) in this world because they are likable. For example, a person of the opposite sex may look attractive, and one may like the sound of a piece of music, etc. Then we start thinking, speaking, and doing things (with mano, vaci, and kaya sankhara) to make them “ours” and to enjoy them more. Sometimes that makes us do immoral things. At a less damaging level, they make us bound to the “kama loka.”Regarding your question, see, “Kāma Assāda – A Root Cause of Suffering” and “Kāma Assāda Start with Phassa Paccayā Vedanā or Samphassa-Jā-Vedana“
Yes. Sometimes these subtle differences stay hidden.
– It could have stayed hidden if you did not start on this project on the MindMap.
– That is why just reading is not enough. Engagement is necessary to make progress. I am glad that you are fully engaged!P.S. The following subsection covered saṅkhāra in detail: “Saṅkhāra – Many Meanings“
Revised post “Introduction -2 – The Three Categories of Suffering” posted.
– Thanks for the input from TripleGemStudent and Tobias. Don’t hesitate to question/comment.
There are no “Kusāla abhisaṅkhāra”.
– “Kusala-mula saṅkhāra” is part of Kusala-mula Paticca Samuppada that lead to Nibbana.
– “Punna abhisaṅkhāra” is part of Akusala-mula Paticca Samuppada that lead to rebirths.May be you made a typing error.
– Any type of abhisaṅkhāra come into play only in Akusala-mula Paticca Samuppada.1. Māna and Uddhacca are two of the 10 samyōjana that needs to be broken to attain the Arahanthood.
– But those two are broken only after the Anagamai stage.
– One must first focus on breaking the first three samyōjana.
– See “Dasa Samyōjana – Bonds in Rebirth Process“
– I just wanted to emphasize that first.
– I don’t think I even discussed the higher 5 samyōjana in the above post.2. There are mainly three types of māna: māna, omāna, and atimāna.
– See, “Taṇhā Sutta (AN 6.106)“
– In the above link, māna: māna, omāna, and atimāna are translated as conceit, inferiority complex, and superiority complex.
– The last two are correct. Māna is a bit deeper than the usual definition of conceit, i.e., “excessively proud of oneself.” It is the deepest level of the perception of “I” or “me”. That is why it is removed only at the Arahant stage.3. “Uddhacca” is translated as “restlessness” in the following sutta: “Uddhacca Sutta (AN 6.116)“
– That is not too bad. But uddhacca is also related to māna. It is “high-mindedness” that is a much lower level than “atimāna” in #2 above (in the sutta).
– Note that “uddhacca” is different from “uddhacca kukkucca” which is one of the five hindrances; see #10 of “Key to Calming the Mind – The Five Hindrances“Yes. That is correct.
You wrote: ” While having possibilities of being born in any realm doing various sankhāra (having majority of births in apaya).”
To expand on that:
– Doing immoral deeds via apunna abhisankhara lead to rebirths in the apayas.
– Moral deeds via punna abhisankhara are “good” in the mundane sense since that leads to rebirth in the “good realms.” However, they DO NOT lead to Nibbana. (Since any birth in a “good realm” has a finite lifetime, one is again “eligible” to be reborn in an apaya.)
– That is why doing punna abhisankhara is NOT ENOUGH. One must comprehend the Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana and become at least a Sotapanna Anugami to be “free of the apayas” in future births.Yes. The first description is correct.
– In some realms, all five khandhas do not arise. For example, the asañña realm.The second description on jati is correct too.
– Everything in this world is a sankhata, arising via Paticca Samuppada. They all arise and are destroyed after being in existence for variable times. Somethings like stars last for billions of years and cittas last for a billionth of a second.
– See, “Jātidhammādi Sutta Dasaka (SN 35.33–42)”
– There are ten small suttas, thus, “dasaka“.Tobias’ questions:
1. “Can it be that during existence aññathā is just change (which is annoying)?”
– It is more than annoying. It is more like unexpected changes which keep coming.
– Examples; getting injured, sick, etc. But it is not restricted to one’s health. One’s belongings are subjected to it too, (all sankhata) leading to mental distress in addition to any physical pain.2. “Then the question is, what category is physical pain?”
– Physical pain comes mostly as kamma vipaka.
– Of course, it is part of the “pīḷana” nature.3. “This experience is mostly not as wanted (anicca) which leads to dukkha(dukkha).”
– Yes. See, “Anicca – The Incessant Distress (“Pīḷana”)“Yes. It is in the Petakopadesa, a Commentary in the Tipitaka.
“5. Hāravibhaṅgapañcamabhūmi” in the first paragraph. It is sort of hidden!
“Tattha tīṇi saṅkhatalakkhaṇāni tisso dukkhatā uppādo saṅkhatalakkhaṇaṁ, saṅkhāradukkhatāya dukkhatā ca saṅkhatalakkhaṇaṁ, vipariṇāmadukkhatāya dukkhatāti aññathattaṁ ca saṅkhatalakkhaṇaṁ, dukkhadukkhatāya ca dukkhatā,.”
I will revise the post, “Introduction -2 – The Three Categories of Suffering” but it may take a couple of days.
I tried to find the source yesterday, but could not.
– See, “Three types of suffering associated with sankata”It is probably not in a sutta but in a Commentary. But since it obviously makes sense, I thought it would be in one of the three Commentaries in the Tipitaka.
