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A question comes up regarding this verse: “Tattha katame avijjā paccayā saṅkhārā? Puññābhisaṅkhāro, apuññābhisaṅkhāro, āneñjābhisaṅkhāro, kāyasaṅkhāro, vacīsaṅkhāro, cittasaṅkhāro”
You say that all these are abhisankhara. If so, then cittasankhara = manosankhara = abhisankhara?
#6 says:
“…If we then start moving body parts to respond, then those are initiated by kāya kammā…”It should be “…initiated by kaya sankhara”, right?
#7 says:
“7. Thus it is important to note that kāya sankhāra are also thoughts. They are responsible for body movements, i.e., kāya kammā….”Do those kaya sankhara trigger kaya vinnati rupa?
Mano sankhara alone are not abhisankhara, right? Mano sankhara can lead to abhisankhara via “more thinking” in form of vaci and kaya sankhara. Thus the kamma is not strong or complete with only mano sankhara. Mano sankhara are the initial reaction (sanna, vedana) on a sense input (also to a kamma nimitta in case of cuti-patisandhi). “More thinking” means more cetasika are involved, like dosa, moha, lobha …
#6 is still having the issue:
“…If done WITHOUT wrong vision, with pleasure, and without prompting will have the next highest strength. (the point is that the pleasure will be reduced, and one will be hesitant due to the knowledge that it is a bad act, thus reducing the javana power).
If done WITHOUT wrong vision, with pleasure, and with prompting will have the next highest strength.
If done WITHOUT wrong vision, with neutral feeling, and without prompting will have the next highest strength.
If done WITHOUT wrong vision, with neutral feeling, and with prompting will have the least strength….”Also the levels of akusala kamma are wrong (if my english understanding is good enough):
“…
If done with wrong vision, with pleasure, and without prompting will have the highest strength.
If done with wrong vision, with pleasure, and with prompting will have the next highest strength.
If done with wrong vision, with neutral feeling, and without prompting will have the next highest strength.
If done with wrong vision, with neutral feeling, and with prompting will have the next highest strength….”It should be “..next lower strength”, right?
With the rewritten post Kamma are Done with Sankhāra – Types of Sankhāra the start of this forum post in Feb 2018 was not correct: “…That means also kusala abhisankhara are done with the dasa akusala involved…”
It must be: “punna abhisankhara are done with the dasa akusala involved, except those where micca ditthi is removed”.Deeds become kusala when micca ditthi is removed and tilakkhana are grasped at least to some extent, that is where a person switches from the mundane 8fold path to the noble 8fold path.
Any thoughts?The Sutta says: “…there are twenty factors on the side of the wholesome, and twenty factors on the side of the unwholesome.”
Lal speaks about 10 outcomes of each path. What are the 10 results of each path and what are the 20 factors for each side? I do not get the information clear from the sutta as well as from Lals essay.
What I understand is that we have 10 micca ditthi + 10 akusala kamma on the side of the unwholesome. Are that the “factors”?
Dr. Chakma, your explanation how someone is doing the dishes in terms of Abhidhamma is very helpful. There I see the connection between the mind and e.g. moving the arms (via kaya vinnati). Maybe Lal could prepare a post with such examples of kusala, akusala, neutral activities and corresponding citta vithi.
I mean the tatramajjhattata cetasika (sometimes translated as upekkha).
Also the viriya cetasika should be in such a neutral citta while doing the dishes….?
Dr. Chakma,
you said:
“…In case of neutral citta, i.e. neither kusala nor akusala, such as doing dishes, only 7 universal cetasika arise. No asobhana, no sobhana, or pakinnaka (particulars citta that can be there in kusala or akusala citta/thought) citta arise in neutral thought/citta….”But a citta with only 7 cetasika is a pabhassara citta or pure citta, which only Arahants can generate. At least the upekkha cetasika (sobhana) should arise in a neutral citta. How do you see this point?
Yes, I mean “neutral citta” with “neutral feeling”. I think you are right. No sobhana or asobhana cetasika arise. And such neutral citta do not have javana.
What cetasika arise with a functional citta (without tanha/upadana), e.g. while doing the dishes? Are in this case ahetuka kiriya citta arising?
Thus we have 2 physical bodies, a dense and a fine one?
But the aroma “inhaled” is utu, right? It comes from “external”.
Please see the post Cuti-Patisandhi – An Abhidhamma Description, #3:
“…In the last citta vithi, a previous kamma vipaka provides an arammana (thought object) associated with that kamma vipaka through one of the five sense doors: it is normally a visual or a sound associated with the new existence (bhava). Even though the person’s physical faculties may be very weak, the person will see or hear very clearly whatever the nimitta presented by the kamma vipaka. Then at the vottapana citta, the mind makes a decision to act on that arammana based on the person’s gathi. The person has no control of it. It is called, “kammaja pure jatha; cittaja pacce jatha”, i.e., kamma vipaka comes first, and then accordingly the javana citta flow grasping that new bhava…”
Here it seems as if the vipaka for the new bhava comes to the mind only in the last citta vithi. But we all have heard about people who saw the new distination already days before the death. How does this go together with the arammana in the very last citta vithi? Will the new bhava be confirmed only in the last moments of the old life?
