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Hello Lal, here my reply:
“Anyway, I am very much puzzled by the fact that people are not taking that scientifically proven fact seriously. Do you think it is not true? Do you think ‘colorful objects’ really exist in the world?”
–> I take the fact seriously and I think that the eye sense receives electromagnetic waves which are in fact special types of rupa with a wave function. Our perception is an optimized illusion/deception about a much deeper, more unified reality. The mind builds a useful “user interface” optimized for our survival. Colors, smells, tastes, the sense of time, the solidity of objects—none of these exist “out there” in that form. They are emergent perceptual constructs.
Let’s consider both possibilities: Colors are inherent in external things, or colors are purely mind-made.
Colors are inherent in external things:
The external thing appears somewhat more valuable if it actually possesses this quality.Colors are purely mind-made:
The external thing appears less valuable without genuine intrinsic color.In both cases, this doesn’t change the anicca/asubha nature, because one might still not be able to possess this thing, or at least not permanently, in the way one desires (anicca). Even the desired color can eventually become truly irritating (dukkha). Therefore, in my opinion, the difference lies only in the slightly lower perceived value when color is purely mind-made.
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“Isn’t it more important to understand the anicca and asubha nature?”
- To understand the anicca and asubha nature, one must first understand that ‘kama sanna‘ fools us (e.g., colors are not real).
–> I disagree. One can also understand the anicca nature of the world by understanding the adinava and viparinama of each sankata, thus grasping the tilakkhana at a basic level. This is sufficient for the sotapanna stage. Only after that does a sotapanna look at deeper aspects, such as the recognition of purana/nava kamma. Actually, it is this aspect that has continued to occupy me: although I understand the Buddha Dhamma quite well, I still indulge in small desires, such as good food. This is due to sanna vipallasa/kama sana in combination with purana/nava kamma and unbroken samyojana/gati. Your series of texts on this topic has helped me a lot. Thank you so much!
Why should the relatively new scientific finding that “colors are created by the mind” be so relevant? People in earlier times could not have known this, yet they were still able to attain Nibbana.
Isn’t it more important to understand the anicca and asubha nature? After all, the things of the world can be whatever they want; if one cannot permanently obtain what one wants, dukkha arises, and thus existence is pointless. Then it also doesn’t matter whether colors come from things or are mind-made. Furthermore, I wonder where the Buddha says that colors are merely mind-made and that this is a problem.
Sanna always corresponds to the plane of existence (kamaloka, rupaloka, arupaloka), and this occurs with many nuances. This is what Sanna Vipallasa means. Thus, we are deluded by this perception and, through samyojana and gati, generate new kamma in two stages (purana/nava).
regarding the sentence: “…A Buddhist meditation NEVER takes a worldly object, such as the breath or a kasina object, as the meditation subject!” Do you say that the meditation object shall not be a “thing of this world” but dhammas/concepts are OK?
I have a question or a request for advice. Although I understand purana and nava kamma, I also understand that kama sanna is deceiving me, I notice the purana kamma stage while it is happening, but I still follow sensual pleasures out of boredom. How can I stop this?
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Hallo Lal, can you explain the specific meaning of “me atta” in this sutta?
“Nanu tvaṁ, aggivessana, evaṁ vadesi:‘rūpaṁ me attā, vedanā me attā, saññā me attā, saṅkhārā me attā, viññāṇaṁ me attā’”ti?I have a question regarding the meaning of the sutta.
The Buddha says:
“Nanu tvaṁ, aggivessana, evaṁ vadesi:‘rūpaṁ me attā, vedanā me attā, saññā me attā, saṅkhārā me attā, viññāṇaṁ me attā’”ti?
What is the meaning “… me attā“? The translation says “… my self”. If it can be translated as “my self”, one can assume the Buddha’s suggestive question about a self in it. But I rather think that the question of control over the five heaps is being asked here.
The Buddha also says:
‘vedanā me attā’ti, vattati te tissaṁ vedanāyaṁ vaso – evaṁ me vedanā hotu, evaṁ me vedanā mā ahosī”ti?
“…do you have power over that feeling to say: ‘May my feeling be like this! May it not be like that’?”
Thus the question of this sutta is not, if a person exists, but rather if one has control over the pancakkhandha.
——————————I also see a discrepancy between
Etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti – Connection to Taṇhā, Māna, Diṭṭhi #1 and #2“etaṁ mama, esohamasmi (eso aham asmi), eso me attā’ti samanupassati”
…However, as discussed below, it means ‘This is mine, I am (some of) this, this is for my benefit.’
vs. Sakkāya Diṭṭhi – “Me and Mine” View #9
“Yaṃ panāniccaṃ dukkhaṃ vipariṇāmadhammaṃ, kallaṃ nu taṃ samanupassituṃ: ‘etaṃ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’”ti?…“If something cannot be maintained to one’s liking, leads to suffering, and is subject to unexpected changes, is it wise to regard that as: ‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self or identity’?”
What is the meaning of “… me attā’ti”?
Dear Lal, I fully agree. I just say that kama sanna is an automatic process but not a PS. Kama sanna is a result of previous kamma and previous PS leading to bhava –> jati.
Please see reply #55897.
- We will not be able to see any objects without them ‘having colors.’ However, the objects in the world do not have inherent colors. The ‘color perception’ is mind-made via Paticca Samuppada.
Color perception is part of kama sanna, right? The Arahant also has kama sanna (but does not attach to it). The Arahant does not operate on PS anymore. Thus, color perception can not be generated by PS. Also, kama sanna comes before the PS-step avijja paccaya sankhara.
On the other hand, bhava, jati, and kaya are mind-made by PS. Is that what you intend to say?Thus, the verse from @maker 2.11 in the Mahā Satipatthāna Sutta is intended from the perspective of a Paṭisotagāmi.
If one is aware of the sequence above, one can train the mind to recognize purana and nava kaya as it happens. One then sees through the “magic trick”. Of course, all this only makes sense after one has attained sotapatti. In addition, a good understanding of abhidhamma is very helpful.
For example, I can perceive that the PS step “vedana paccaya tanha” is being reached and that the mind is virtually forced to move on to upadana. Then I practice preventing that progression. Sometimes it works, sometimes I still go with the flow.
Can you explain the word components of ‘upādāya‘ and ‘upādāna‘? The “upā”-part is in both words.
The other question is, how could the disciples figure out or put together the Abhidhamma theory 200 years after the Buddha’s passing? I would think a Buddha is needed to see and explain all those details.
Please take a look at the #2 in the sutta:
But the single mass of water at that time was utterly dark.
The moon and sun were not found, nor were stars and constellations, day and night, months and fortnights, years and seasons, or male and female. Beings were simply known as ‘beings’.
After a very long period had passed, the earth’s nectar curdled in the water.
Why were stars, moon and sun not there? Day and night also not there? It does not make sense to me.
Please see #11:
11. In the Tipiṭaka, it says the usual progression of one’s character (gati) buildup is dāna (giving), sila (moral conduct), bhāvanā (mostly loving kindness towards others), and culminating in paññā (wisdom).I thought bhāvanā is meditation/vipassana. Can someone explain?
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Lal said:
- The Deva asked, “How did you cross the flood”? and the Buddha answered, “By neither landing nor grasping to something (that was floating), I crossed the flood.”
What means “landing” in relation to kama dhatu, kama sanna, kama sankappa…? I guess it is the purana kamma stage. But how can the Bodhisatta avoid kama dhatu (with kama sanna)?
Now I understand, Lal. If we look at Vb 6, we see that only in the first section Suttantabhājanīya is the PS mentioned (starts with “Avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā…”). Then come sections with causes/conditions (paccaya, hetu, sampayutta, aññamañña), as well as various akusala citta and kusala citta. But the terms “akusala-mula PS” or “kusala-mula PS” are not mentioned. Thus, “paṭicca samuppāda” always means the process that leads to rebirth (even within one lifetime).
So “doubt” would be similar. It would also fit better in the text: Kalahavivāda Sutta – #3.
This dictionary says:
kathaṅkathī : [adj.] one who is doubtful.
