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“There are these four types of thunderheads. Which four?[…]
“And how is one the type of person who thunders but doesn’t rain? There is the case where a person has mastered the Dhamma: dialogues, narratives of mixed prose and verse, explanations, verses, spontaneous exclamations, quotations, birth stories, amazing events, question & answer sessions. Yet he doesn’t discern, as it actually is present, that ‘This is stress.’ He doesn’t discern, as it actually is present, that ‘This is the origination of stress.’ He doesn’t discern, as it actually is present, that ‘This is the cessation of stress.’ He doesn’t discern, as it actually is present, that ‘This is the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.’ This is the type of person who thunders but doesn’t rain. This type of person, I tell you, is like the thunderhead that thunders but doesn’t rain.
Like I said this will not bring any benefit, if one can not attain magga phala and keep up making ideas (the one you made belongs to Mahāyāna view which is more and more clear that you are crypto-mahayanist) it will not do, why you constantly look for acceptance from other people? If you understanding is right you should be already Anagami or Arahant. What you are trying to do also with sakkya ditthi thread is trying to think of a color that you do not know. It’s impossible – try to understand key things that leads to Nibbana and from that one can get deeper into those concepts but one can attain Nibbana even without knowing all of that if one know only key dhamma concepts that leads to it.
Repeating the same wrong views, again and again, does not make them right either. MN44 has wrongly translated sutta and what it’s spoken there has nothing to do with what Buddha meant there. Stopping the “I” making does not lead to the end of suffering, end of hate, greed, and lust, etc. You will be just more delusional then a regular person who just living life ignorantly about things and just following things like dogs follow the stick or bone.
You are repeating hinduism teachings which Buddha discarded, how hard is to understand that by thinking this way you will never get into Nibbana?
Sariputta explained it clearly it’s neither self (or any six sense door) or objects of perceptions but CRAVING which arise on the basis of AVIJJA (not knowing true nature of this world). Imagine being robbed by muggers that take fake money you have from a monopoly (but they do not know it and think it’s real) even that YOU (SELF) have been robbed you still does not suffer as that money is worthless.
“We constantly graps at those arising phenomena, at this ever changing stream, as ‘me’ and ‘mine’. This habit is going on since beginningless time.”
That’s simply not true. Constantly pushing this speculative idea will only bring yourself more harm and more suffering as one can not disassociate yourself from arising phenomena – is like the people who want to stop thinking process and say the same stuff as you but just change “me” and “mine” to “Thinking” and “thoughts. It’s pure nonsense which I already make clear about. The only thing you can do is to see the futility of things which got nothing to do with self/no self nor the objects of your perception. Even if we take your wrong understanding and play devil’s advocate so the only right thing with “I’m” making would be “I want this I want that, I want to be happy” – this would be proper sakkya ditthi as one realized that “I will never be happy” but “I” itself got nothing to do as it’s just agent which will exists till one attain full Nibbana. Using this as starting point to get yourself rid of yourself is just plain unwholesome as you are not the problem but TANHA and AVIJJA and only permanently getting rid of it one get rids of “I” on Arahant stage. Just yapping around that “I” is a problem one will become mentally ill or end up parroting views without any change in their experience in tanha and avijja.
Whatever you doing – you are doing it too hard/wrong. This is not a state but sounds like suppression. Try to use understanding rather focusing/concentration as it’s not right for sure.
No, you just believing things to your liking, that fits your world view or your expectations which is a sign of ignorance. The problems are not “self” neither “non/no self” but:
Ven. Kotthita: "How is it, friend Sariputta, is ... the ear the fetter of sounds or are sounds the fetter of the ear?..." Ven. Sariputta: "Friend Kotthita, the ... ear is not the fetter of sounds nor are sounds the fetter of the ear, but rather the desire and lust that arise there in dependence on both: that is the fetter there...."“The impression that there is someone inside us experiencing something is part of delusion.”
Delusion is not about you being this or that but not seeing things as they are (not seeing Anicca nature, Anatta nature, how PS cycles are working in your mind, etc.)
“The notion of an-I-who-does-the-experiencing is yet part of our make-up. It arises due to latent tendency, mana-anusaya. This anusaya gets triggered when there is sense-contact. So, when there is sense-contact, there almost immediately arises the notion of an entity-I who sees, who hears, who thinks, who, speaks, who lives, who feels etc.”
Still wrong, this is hinduism (neti neti yoga) which Buddha discarded. When you see, hear, smell, think, touch, etc. what arises is avijja and tanha, not the notion of “I”. For example, if someone you like kick a ball and score a goal you are happy, but if it was done by someone you dislike you feel hate or you just do not like – even the action is the same, the action itself does not have any quality for you to dislike it or like it. Avijja gets triggered and tanha as your reaction towards six senses doors which got nothing to do with a self or no self.
Those are just wrong views you are speaking of that new age people get fixed all around the internet and not only around it.
The only way to know what is Nibbana, one needs to get rid of avijja and tanha. There is no other way, any speculative knowledge and guessing will only harm yourself and give your wrong idea about things. It’s will make your mind more unclear. Rather than think your way out to get what Nibbana is, apply the process which one can know and attain Nibbana? Do not let ignorance run out like that as you harming yourself by doing that. It’s really not that hard to understand if one stops a bit and give it a thought.
Again sybe, you can not make it up with the thinking process make sense out of it prior to attaining any magga phala as you will be going of opposite direction actually and that what you are doing and that what I mean you do not practice Dhamma but you practicing thinking about Dhamma.
Thank you for all kind words
Thank you Lal for an explanation but then I have a question on the basis of that – how one judge then a schism in the Sangha or if one is making such schism when leads to Apayas?
I’m pointing the way out for you in your struggle. You trying to first experience things without approaching Dhamma in practical/experiential way but expect to have understanding and experience before any efforts towards it – you are trying to achieve impossible, the quicker you get this the better for you and your future. From the start of being you have been pretty much antagonistic approach to Lal, this forum and message of Buddha here. I hope you are not just plain-trolling us but if you are sincerely about practice this is your time to turn into effort and do not hang over all time. Some questions can be only answered thru direct experience.
There are things beyond existing or not-existing, they are not graspable by mind and your thinking process, you will not figure it out that way. To understand Dhamma one needs to attain some factors of Nibbana to have at least glimpse of how things are so they turn into experience and wisdom. This is not hard to understand – just approach it the way I explained and for sure one way or another benefits will come. Start even with being moral and develop STRONG Sati so benefits will be there even just in mundane way.
You can not have idea how to be buff if you are just thinking about how it is – you need to start lift, learn about diet and supplements etc. same here, once you learn what to do – you do it and then you know it how it is – no other way around.
You simply have no clue or real experience of Dhamma and teachings of Buddha because of that you are trying to cook up things in your imagination. I will explain your position so you can reflect on this. Imagine there is you who is thinking what is beyond the fence but you are not willing to look beyond that fence and just lay down there thinking about what is beyond. Being absorbed in that thinking process so much you forgot about the fence and the real meanings of why you are near the fence and what to do with the whole situation. Lost in that situation you are making up things in your mind without to do any work to attain even glimpse of any factors of Nibbana. You are trying to think off results without even attending to practice like a person who is not willing to run but only think all day about how it is to run.
All your confusion will drop once you start to experience Nibbana, Dhamma and how things really are – right now you are lost case. I’m saying this with all compassion to you because being stuck in ignorance like that is not even funny, please start practice as fast as possible and get on right track otherwise you will succumb your chance by being idler who will only grow bitter and dissatisfied (or even worse – angry) with Dhamma.
This is how people are in this image. Stop being like that and get your things together.
Lal said “One does not need to attain the Arahantship or even the Sotapanna stage, before one can try to explain Dhamma to others (to the extent that one comprehends it). That is what most of us are doing.”
I will clarify it a bit. Most people look at you judgemental way and thru materialistic view – if there is nothing to gain there will be no interested in anything or in any “nonsense” that does not have clear benefits. As my characteristic changed, wisdom and everything people started to take a notice of drastic changes (even in my physical outlook) and started become interested in Dhamma so I think the best way is just to be an example of what Dhamma can do for human being so others will naturally try to figure it out what going on or at least to try to look into Dhamma.
So if you are speaking of Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha and you are no different then other people and fall in the same traps they will think it’s just another burden for their mind, a philosophy that they will still follow their urges like cattle but just with different concepts and name. One can teach Dhamma or spread Dhamma without being Sotapanna but there is high risk involved that person will be lacking too mach understanding and experience to show people the way of practice.
Yes so from what I understand is more like this. I happen to experience it too and I relate that this is how it feels when you die when the body just becomes lump but your brain is still aware of everything. Gandhabba and other stuff would be different I think in that case.
We all will experience it anyway at the moment of death.
“If your parents wasn’t loved each others and had sex than there would be no you even to begin with let alone all your craps. So how could you said that sexual desire are bad?”
In the long term you will be committing rape, threat, lie to have sex – a person needs to take rebirth process into count. Lust is something that bound you to existence and needs to be removed as fast as possible if one wants to live Holy life rather then the life of a cattle. Cattle do not question anything they just follow their urges to eat and reproduction impulses.
“We’ve clearly known about aging and death, even more so than you – youngster, so we try to making more money so we can enjoy pleasures at later dates. Why can’t you just become a normal human like us – making lot of money and enjoy life?”
The enjoyment of life is nonexisting phenomena created on the basis of ignorance. They want you to live like cattle – how good it can be? We can not extract happiness from life, the happiness people experience is because of ignorance not because happiness exists out there to be extracted from any event/people/happening or money. In reality, there is no happiness, the more you indulge in sense pleasure the more your mind and body will burn and suffer. You feeling like a beat-up person is far from being happy.
“Basically because you are so different than any other person in society, if your words are agaisnt the mass then they would just assumed that you are crazy, delusion, have some psychological problems or just ignore you. This is the general responds I received while trying to spread the Dhamma when I see it’s appropriate.”
Being Mara’s cattle and not seeing the insanity of this world because of avijja. Not seeing the enormous size of the universe, that this whole universe is ticking bomb with earth, the shortage of life and potential suffering in the future – if someone does not even want to see thru that this person is pretty insane to really see or have hope for any happiness in such insane world mechanics.
A mistake you are making is trying to convince people to practice it. Firstly it will never work that way, Dhamma is not a religion of conversion but Dhamma needs to be understood and contemplated. First, attain at least Sakadagami or Anagami before coming to people because you will only cause harm to yourself and others. IF you are not sure about arguments or can not make them up on spot it means you are lacking understanding and wisdom to spread Dhamma on that stage as it will be useless for you, people and Dhamma itself. One needs to have high wisdom and insight to teach others and be on high stage itself and understand Dhamma deeply to relate it to people on the spot. Do not approach Dhamma as Dhamma-teacher without excellent PANNA.
Do not be mad, sad or anything because you can not pass Dhamma – focus first on yourself otherwise it would be useless to teach people on the simple conviction that Dhamma is right in your view but yet to be realized. Only realized beings (Ariya) have the right to spread Dhamma and have necessary wisdom to do so. Even some Arahats would stay away from the transmission of Dhamma
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Could you ask here all the question you would like to get answered, it will be easier? “Cleansing kamma” does not lead to Nibbana but better rebirth so there is no way you can attain Nibbana like this. You can easily cheat other people who do not know anything about Buddha Dhamma into believing anything you want just triggering for them some special experiences to manipulate them by doing that. This is why most “spiritual” communities are dangerous places to be as inside most of those communities are rotten besides some people who actually do good in the world.
If you are into discord you can join and practice with us on discord too https://discord.com/invite/g6UWq4b
