September 16, 2019 at 3:02 pm #24844
Hello, couple days ago I had much deeper insights so I want share something that helped me to get rid of lust
One need to understand to stop going after things that does not brings any sustainable happiness – that really all one need to do to fall into Nibbana and uproot raga dvesha moha – we need to explain different contexts of this to trigger magga and phala cittas. That’s all it is to the Path in most simplest and direct form to bring all the factors of Nibbana together.
One need to bring his mind to certain purity of citta then contemplate that one is not able to sustain anything to one own satisfaction and things will drop permanently
There is no magic or no special things one can do or there is no pigeon in the pocket or rabbit in the magician hat to be taken from and I can already feel in people minds when they read about it “How I should give it up? What then I will do in life? I can not do that”. And this is moment when on develops aversion because of ignorance, that’s why those concepts needs deeper explanations on HOW and WHY to do that. Firstly, one experiences everything because one mentally fabricate everything, the women you chase, the position or anything that gives you certain feeling or “cooling down” (fake one, not Nibbanic because of fulfillment of cravings), grab in hand a piece of wood and then grab other women breasts in a second one will start creating mental fabrication based on lust and (if the breast shape/color gathi one will get sensual pleasure but he created that feeling in his mind – it not caused by the object of perception or perception ITSELF as somebody else can be repulsed by the same thing you get excited about so it’s all mentally fabricated)
While holding a wood is just neutral feeling related to the shape, density and rupa, physical constitution with neutral feeling but one can create mental fabrication on that even slight by not liking the way it looks or that some other piece of wood looks better for example but in general first contact is neutral without any hate, greed and lust (as explained above it’s indriya) and the grabbing breast becomes ayatana
So as we can see there is many factors to that simply statement I made and can be covered deeply to trigger potential insight but one can develop those on it’s own with this basic understanding as above
And this is how one progress on Nibbana Path with Panna vimutti way
without jhanas or meditation involved etc. just by creating causes for pure mind just with samadhi, but I personally saw benefits of meditation that contributed to that so I think if you get into certain level of insight you do not need to meditate really, Dhamma energy from #formal-practice-meditation makes it easier
Why we generate hate? Because we think if we react with that we set ourselves in condition free of suffering by changing things outside but this is pure ignorance, why? Because everything Anicca, Dukkha and Anatta?
Why we generate lust? Because we think if we get things/women/men/material things we think we will keep our things the way we want by having those things to give us pleasure but not realizing it’s bring only misery in long term the same way drugs are making one more dysfunctional
Why we generate greed? Because with status, power and having things we think we can stay on high with self esteem indulgence but as everything of those 3 is non sustainable, subject to change (anatta) so unfruitful and causing suffering. When you get hooked on something and now you can not let it go but life will take it away, how it feels? Dukkha
Sansara is nothing more then just drug dealer that each rebirth got you hooked on raga, dvesha moha high. As explained “If one does immoral actions (pāpa kamma) to gain/maintain sensory pleasures, kamma vipāka of those kamma lead to rebirths in “bad realms” called dugati. The word dugati comes from “du” + “gati” or “bad gati.”
It’s just as it is, it’s clear and nobody can do/argue about it. It’s ultimate truth, how things are and nothing in the world can’t change not, no beliefs systems, no gods, no religion no anything – only realizing how things are and releasing mind from all this bring any permanent benefits. That’s a 100% but it definitely takes time, patience, right people and everything to knock off mind from it so I do not even expect many people to catch up with it but if you have something inside you that can make sense out of it – follow Dhamma till full Parinibbana
To prove that is true one can even realize that on simple example. Imagine kid that have fun by making sand castles (also cries when it’s got washed up or destroyed by bully) but he have sense pleasure from doing that and creating it, why do you don’t do sand castles now to get the same feeling of sensual pleasure of it? Because it’s not mentally fabricated the same way as children mentally fabricated their own stuff on very high level (as children are hooked easier by new things and new sense pleasure rather then adults who get used to them), so you do not think about making sand castles but making girl come to your bed, to make money, to get a car etc. same way as children making sand castles but you build yours in adult way
One knows one is unable to fulfill his six sense and happiness thru building sand castles that’s why one does not even think about it, the same Ariya knows and sees whole world while enjoying bliss of Nibbana and not thinks about anything related to hate, greed and lust
October 12, 2019 at 12:08 pm #25131
It’s like this, when you are a pig you are attracted and enjoy being in mud and acting like pig in mud and dirt, for human is repulsive but for person who understand Dhamma human nature is no different than of this pig but person can not realize it as the pig unless one gets to understand real Dhamma, pig of course will never understand it even if human would explain it to pig – those pigs are the same as people who are ahetukas and dvihetukas who are not able to understand Dhamma as pig who are unable to understand ignorance of dwelling in mud and dirt and eating rotten food.
While for human the pig is his own mind, ignorance and dirt and mud thoughts based on that ignorance
October 12, 2019 at 3:29 pm #25132y notParticipant
Or like this, Christian:
…seeing that this box we are in is but a processing mechanism that converts liquids and solids to urine and faeces; the aromas and flavours we so relish turn into detestable waste. Yet we cannot do otherwise, because we are impelled by thirst and hunger. Moreover, it is beset by disease, aches and pains, ending in old age and death. Such is the existence we have to bear; even so, a human existence is in fact the best to see through all that, given, as you say, that one is a tihetuka.
What to say of one lived in a Buddha sasana, where through the compassion of an Ariya or Ariyas, we, on our way to Nibbana, can put an end to all that forever (besides, of course, to existences in still lower realms)?
Much merit to you and to all who spread the Dhamma.
October 12, 2019 at 4:27 pm #25133
It will not work that way because people are okay with it knowing that the way you explained.
Without meaning and something to trigger switch it will be just accepted as set of believes. To get rid of lust one need to have meaning to what is said or explained – the way you explained is without meaning, if you will add Dukkha Sanna to it in between lines to make a contrast or anything to gave it meaning it would be better. Just saying sky is blue and grass is green have no much value without proper wisdom or meaning that can bring insight.
October 12, 2019 at 9:09 pm #25137
I think most of the points y not is making, are correct.
“…seeing that this box we are in is but a processing mechanism that converts liquids and solids to urine and faeces; the aromas and flavours we so relish turn into detestable waste.”
– That is true.
But the next sentence, “Yet we cannot do otherwise, because we are impelled by thirst and hunger.” could be written in a different way.
– There is nothing wrong with eating and drinking (even tasty foods). In fact, we have to eat and drink to maintain our lives. And there is no point is forcibly eating foods that are not tasty.
– The only thing we need to do is to consume any food WITHOUT craving. That loss of craving comes naturally as one realizes the futility of enjoying those “pleasures”. Such cravings keep one bound to the kama loka.
What he says next is true too: “Moreover, it is beset by disease, aches, and pains, ending in old age and death. Such is the existence we have to bear;”
– That should be an incentive to make effort without delay to attain Nibbana, at least the first stages of Nibbana.
October 12, 2019 at 10:43 pm #25138y notParticipant
“Yet we cannot do otherwise, because we are impelled by thirst and hunger.”
Lal has that as ‘ In fact, we have to eat and drink to maintain our lives.’
And that is just what I meant. I see no difference at all in the two statements.
Perhaps the notion of aharepatikulasanna comes in here, if this is what is meant; if not, it makes no difference. I have been conscious of this repulsiveness for quite some time, not of food itself(as to taste etc), but of this disgusting process that we have to carry out, day in day out. Every morning I see: look what this box produces! At meal times I see: this food will be that in the morning!
But it is all necessary for maintaining life in a human body. That is how devas must look upon human bodies, much like we look upon pigs – careful to keep a distance, more so due to the much finer sensitivity of their senses.
October 13, 2019 at 7:05 am #25139
“But it is all necessary for maintaining life in a human body. That is how devas must look upon human bodies, much like we look upon pigs – careful to keep a distance, more so due to the much finer sensitivity of their senses.”
OK y not. I see that you had the right idea.
October 20, 2019 at 10:42 am #25254Anonymous
“So as we can see there is many factors to that simply statement I made and can be covered deeply to trigger potential insight but one can develop those on it’s own with this basic understanding as above
And this is how one progress on Nibbana Path with Panna vimutti way
without jhanas or meditation involved etc. just by creating causes for pure mind just with samadhi, but I personally saw benefits of meditation that contributed to that so I think if you get into certain level of insight you do not need to meditate really, Dhamma energy from #formal-practice-meditation makes it easier”
One can get rid of lust to some extent by persuasion because of the learning of dharma. On special occasions, he may not be able to get out of it. If it is neutral, I think you are at the stage of noting only. It is rather difficult to just remain neutral. You will go further down the road: wood, you begin to analyze and differentiate; better wood or nice breast, some sort of emotion is triggered. Staying in the noting stage is only possible by meditation and reaching some degree of insight.
October 20, 2019 at 1:49 pm #25257
Welcome to the forum, Adomsonh!
It seems that your comment is on a statement by Christian at the beginning of this thread. I will let Christian address it as he thinks appropriate.
October 20, 2019 at 5:40 pm #25258
I have no idea what kind of “noting” Adam is speaking of. I think we are on different page and judging by your own ideas rather then understanding what I said will not bring any benefit to be honest. The wrong notion of “remaining” suggest anariya practices (probably sayadaw?). What I speak here is permanent and does not need any further practice once reached one does not start PS cycles once fetters are broken forever to that extent of those fetters being broken.
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