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Yes. It is essential to have full clarity on these questions.
Question: Is it correct to say that matter exists in the outside world and we use our minds to experience a mental version of it? Like the table is really in the outside world and not because I can sense it through my senses?
- Yes. 100%
Question: If I eat a cake , is the cake really in the outside world composed of matter or its just a mental thing because I can see, smell, hear, taste, touch it?
- Yes. The cake is real, and your sensations (e.g., its taste) based on it are real.
Question: What if the senses are not present?
- If a given sense faculty is not working, you will not experience the sensation.
- For example, the blind cannot see, and the deaf cannot hear.
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I have just posted “Loka – Each Person Perceives the “External World” Differently,” which explains the above in detail.
- Feel free to ask questions.
I was going to follow up with another comment yesterday, but I got tied up with an issue at home.
1. What I described in my two comments above is the “mundane reality.”
2. The Buddha discovered the “ultimate reality” (“paramatta dhamma“) about the world.
- Here, “paramatta” is “parama atta” or the “ultimate truth.”
- The external world and the sentient beings in it are sustained by the “mental power” or the “kammic energy” of the sentient beings.
- Each sentient being generates “kammic energy” based on rāga, dosa, and moha. Part of that energy leads to new rebirths, and the rest of the collective kammic energies of all sentient beings contribute to sustaining the external world.
- All inert objects, as well as the physical and mental bodies of sentient beings, are made of suddhāṭṭhaka created by kammic energy. A suddhāṭṭhaka has eight components: the four great elements (pathavi, āpo, tejo, and vāyo) that arise due to avijjā and four more (vaṇṇa, gandha, rasa, oja) due to taṇhā. The latter four are discussed in Abhidhamma but are only referred to as “upādāya rupa” in the suttās. As we have discussed, the Abhidhamma theory was not fully developed during the Buddha’s lifetime. This is a deeper aspect discussed in “The Origin of Matter – Suddhāṭṭhaka.”
3. When a given sentient being figures out (fully understands) the teachings of the Buddha, the generation of “kammic energy” (based on rāga, dosa, and moha) stops. The disappearance of moha (or avijjā) leads to the loss of one’s cravings for worldly pleasures (rāga), and that also leads to the fading away of moha.
- One critical aspect of that is the following. The avijjā (or moha) is not to see the “full picture” of the endless rebirth process based solely on “mind power” or kammic energy.
- Since the energy to sustain the whole process is created in the defiled mind (this is what “Manōpubbangamā dhammā..” means), whatever is created cannot be sustained forever. Each existence (whether in the human realm, in the animal realm, or a Brahma realm) has a finite duration, a limited lifetime. The problem is that most rebirths are in the suffering-filled lowest four realms. That is why the rebirth process leads to much more suffering in the long term.
4. Another aspect is as follows: We pointed out above that kammic energies are responsible for maintaining the external world and the sentient beings (all composed of suddhāṭṭhaka). That process leads to the generation of “distorted saññā” in the minds of all sentient beings, making them automatically attach to sensory inputs.
- That is why the Buddha said that all sentient beings are deceived by this “distorted saññā” inherent in all sentient beings via Paṭicca Samuppāda. See “Fooled by Distorted Saññā (Sañjānāti) – Origin of Attachment (Taṇhā).”
- P.S. In other words, fully understanding how “distorted saññā” arises helps eliminate avijjā and taṇhā. Thus, Nibbāna is reached via cultivating wisdom (paññā), i.e., fully understanding the above.
Yes. Our color perception is due to the physical properties of our eyes and the interaction with light.
- Humans and various animals “see” using different wavelength bands of light. Humans perceive colors within the “colored light wavelengths” (violet to red), which is why we see in vivid colors. Dogs don’t see with color; they see in black and white. Bats “see” using a very different technique.
- Gandhabbas (our mental bodies) see without using light when they come out of the physical body, as in OBE and NDE. Of course, they cannot use physical eyes. They don’t need light to see, and they can see better than we, because of that. A friend of mine can come out of the body and says she can see things much clearly while “out-of-the-body.” That “seeing” is, however, without color. The “color scheme” is associated with seeing through the physical eyes of humans.
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Maybe you misunderstood what that bhikkhu was saying (or did he actually mean it)? The following is my understanding.
1. Yes. The world that I experience is mental and “real” for me.
2. But my mental experience is based on sensory inputs coming from the external world, and that external world is also real.
3. However, another person may experience the same external world differently from me.
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I think the above points describe the fundamental basis.
- In other words, everyone experiences the same external world.
- However, the “mental experience” depends on the person. The simplest example is the following. Two people, A and B, look at person X (who is a friend of A and an enemy of B). A experiences joy upon seeing X, but anger arises in B upon seeing the same person X.
Yes. It is a simple yet good example to get the basic idea.
- Of course, we can extend to deeper issues.
- For example, if you like to eat ice cream, it seems that it is an action of “nicca nature” while eating it. Then you keep eating ice cream every day to get “more of it.” Eventually, it will have adverse health consequences.
- Going a bit deeper, sensual pleasures, in general, seem to provide a sense of “nicca” or “satisfaction.” Yet, seeking sensual pleasures will keep one away from Nibbana; it is, thus, of anicca nature in the long term. Furthermore, if one engages in immoral deeds to obtain more sensory pleasures, it will have negative consequences even in this life.
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On May 29, 2025, at 5:34 pm (above), I wrote the following:
4. Kāya saṅkhāra refers to sankappa (subtle version of “abhisaṅkhāra“) that are automatically generated in the “purāna kamma” stage; see “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
- I have not explicitly discussed the fact that kāya saṅkhāra refers to sankappa. I will explain that when I start rewriting the posts on Satipaṭṭhāna.
- Until then, I can only state the meaning of “Assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro” as “one must fully comprehend how sankappa arises in the purāna kamma stage.” Thus, “Assāsapassāsā” is not a definition of kāya saṅkhāra. It merely states that to cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna, one must fully comprehend how sankappa arises in the purāna kamma stage.
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In the coming weeks, I will start a series of posts on Satipaṭṭhāna. I am still setting up the necessary background, and I am almost finished with that.
- There, I will explain the above in detail.
- It will take a few posts to explain that.
1. I listened to about 20 minutes from that point. The Thero is saying the following:
- Just breathing in and out is only saṅkhāra, not abhisaṅkhāra.
- One needs to breathe to move body parts (He quotes a Waharaka Thero‘s discourse on this, and I have also listened to it).
- If one moves body parts with sañcetanā, or “defiled cetanā” or “defiled intentions,” then those involve abhisankhara.
2. All of those are correct.
- That is precisely what I am saying, too.
- Moving the body requires breathing. If you move your body to steal or kill someone, that involves abhisaṅkhāra, not pure saṅkhāra (without raga, dosa, moha)
3. The problem is the following: The Buddha always referred to abhisaṅkhāra. In the suttas, the word saṅkhāra almost always refers to abhisaṅkhāra. There is no point discussing pure saṅkhāra in the suttas, because kamma generation involves raga, dosa, and moha.
- Pure saṅkhāra (without raga, dosa, moha) are generated by Arahants, too. There is no point talking about pure saṅkhāra in the suttas.
- The suttas discuss only those saṅkhāra involving sañcetanā, i.e., abhisaṅkhāra.
4. Conclusion: Assāsapassāsā in “Assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro” (discussed in the Cūḷavedalla Sutta) cannot be “breathing in and out.”
- “Breathing in and out” is due to pure saṅkhāra.
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If any of the above is incorrect, you (or the Thero) should respond to each incorrect point. I don’t have the time to read other documents or watch more videos.
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I think it is a good idea to emphasize the following.
- “Kamma” in Buddha’s teachings does not refer to all actions.
- Only those actions, speech, and thoughts involving rāga, dosa, and moha are “kamma.”
- Thus, the goal (“kamma nirodha“) does not refer to stopping all actions, speech, and thoughts, but only those involving rāga, dosa, or moha.
- The Buddha lived for 45 years after attaining Buddhahood and engaged in countless actions, speech, and thoughts.
- Additionally, “kamma nirodha” is equivalent to “saṅkhāra nirodha.” Still, as we have discussed, saṅkhāra refers to abhisaṅkhāra performed with sañcetanā, or “defiled cetanā” or “defiled intentions” (characterized by rāga, dosa, or moha).
- This is a crucial yet simple point to remember. That is why “breathing in and out” cannot be a type of abhisaṅkhāra.
- Please feel free to ask questions, because this is a critical point. Also see “Kamma are Done with Abhisaṅkhāra – Types of Abhisaṅkhāra.”
You asked: “Do you agree with the implied meaning from Cūḷavedallasutta (MN 44) that assāsapassāsā means breathing in and out?”
No. I don’t agree. I suppose I didn’t make it clear enough. So, I have revised my comment above to add the following (please see my comment above):
“P.S. Therefore, Assāsapassāsā cannot possibly mean “breathing in and out.” That translation is wrong.”
- The correct meaning is explained in #4 of my comment.
- As we have discussed many times, a word can have different meanings depending on the context. That holds not only for Pāli, but also for English and most languages. See, for example, “Pāli Dictionaries – Are They Reliable?“
1. All five components of pañcupādānakkhandha (pañca upādānakkhandha, i.e., rupa, vedanā, saññā, saṅkhāra, and viññāṇa) are mental entities, i.e., they arise in the mind.
- In the recent post “Etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti – Connection to Taṇhā, Māna, Diṭṭhi,” I presented evidence that “rupa” in the suttās refers to “rupa upadanakkhandha” and is mental.
2. Similarly, “saṅkhāra” in the suttās always refers to “abhisaṅkhāra” with “sañcetanā.” As we know, “sañ” refers to defilements or “rāga, dosa, moha.”
3. (Abhi)saṅkhāra can also be categorized as kāya saṅkhāra, vacī saṅkhāra, and citta saṅkhāra. They are all done with “sañcetanā.”
- Yes. The “Cūḷavedallasutta (MN 44)” explains them as “Assāsapassāsā kho, āvuso visākha, kāyasaṅkhāro, vitakkavicārā vacīsaṅkhāro, saññā ca vedanā ca cittasaṅkhāro”ti.” The English translation in the link translates the first part as “Breathing is a physical process,” implying that Assāsapassāsā means “breathing in and out.”
- Of course, breathing is also controlled by the mind, but it does not involve “sañcetanā.” P.S. Therefore, Assāsapassāsā cannot possibly mean “breathing in and out.” That translation is wrong.
- In some older posts, I also may have referred to kāya saṅkhāra incorrectly. I realized that error within the past couple of years (there may be posts that require revision). I haven’t had time to look for and correct such possible errors in old posts.
4. Kāya saṅkhāra refers to sankappa (subtle version of “abhisaṅkhāra“) that are automatically generated in the “purāna kamma” stage; see “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
- I have not explicitly discussed the fact that kāya saṅkhāra refers to sankappa. I will explain that when I start rewriting the posts on Satipaṭṭhāna.
- Until then, I can only state the meaning of “Assāsapassāsā kāyasaṅkhāro” as “one must fully comprehend how sankappa arises in the purāna kamma stage.” Thus, “Assāsapassāsā” is not a definition of kāya saṅkhāra. It merely states that to cultivate Satipaṭṭhāna, one must fully comprehend how sankappa arises in the purāna kamma stage.
- Here, “Assāsapassāsa” has the same meaning as “jānato passato.” See “Jānato Passato” and Ājāniya – Critical Words to Remember.”
5. Buddha’s teachings are much deeper and profound than most people realize. I realized this only within the past couple of years.
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I found the following account from the Tipitaka of Ven. Adhimutta (an Arahant).
- He was captured by a band of bandits. In those days, some people believed in making sacrifices to the Gods.
- They were taking him to be sacrificed, but were astonished to see that the Thero was not afraid of being killed. Usually, their victims would be screaming and begging for their lives.
- The following account starts with the bandits asking him why he is not scared: “Adhimuttattheragāthā.”
- Thero‘s response is from marker 3.1 through 15.4. He explains to them why he is not afraid of dying (he had broken all ten samyojana, including asmi māna or the “sense of me”); in fact, he is looking forward to Parinibbāna to be free of even a trace of suffering.
- As stated there, in the end, some of the bandits become bhikkhus and attain Arahantship.
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1. Whether or not one believes in a “sense of me,” that “sense of me” is in everyone except for an Arahant.
- It is a “sansāric bond” (specifically “asmi māna” samyojana) that binds all except Arahants to the rebirth process.
- The easiest way to check this is to think about the following: Are you not afraid to die? If someone tries to kill you, would you not panic and try to avoid getting killed using all your resources?
2. In the same way, all ten samyojana (sakkāya diṭṭhi, vicikicchā, silabbata parāmāsa, kāma rāga, paṭigha, rupa rāga, arupa rāga, māna, uddaccha, avijjā) are in an average human (puthujjana).
- See #14 of “Etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’ti – Connection to Taṇhā, Māna, Diṭṭhi“ and my comments on May 25, 2025, above.
- They can be broken only by fully understanding the Buddha’s worldview, i.e., by cultivating paññā. That is a step-by-step process. Getting rid of asmi māna comes at the end. Even thinking about how to remove the “sense of me” is unfathomable even to a Sotapanna. It is like trying to learn calculus without knowing how to add and subtract.
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Yes, I seem to have missed an enormous factor, 9 orders of magnitude! Thank you!
- However, we can also look at it the other way, i.e., if the time taken is 10 billion years, then the mass removed by each stroke is about 36 × 10^-9 grams. The correct numbers could be somewhere in between.
- So, I need to think about how to correct it. Either way, it shows the magnitude of the time scale.
