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OK. Your question was: “Furthermore, what exactly needs to be understood about the purāṇa kamma stage? So far, I understand that it happens automatically and unconsciously. A puthujjana cannot prevent the initial attachment.”
- The main point is that once the purāṇa kamma stage begins for a puthujjana with a sensory event, it is inevitable that at least some of those events will lead to kamma accumulation.
- Then, how can a puthujjana get out of that ‘kamma accumulation’ ever? They are trapped in the kāma loka forever!
- A relatively few can temporarily bypass the kāma loka and enter the rupa loka Brahma mindset (i.e., jhāna). They will be reborn in a Brahma realm, but at the end of that existence, they will be reborn in the kāma loka. That is because they had not eliminated the ‘kāma rāga samyojana.’ I explained that in #6 of “Buddhist Non-Attachment Is Based on Yoniso Manasikāra.” Also see “Overcoming Kāma Saññā – Satipaṭṭhāna Bhumi or Jhāna.”
- Therefore, until one realizes how the purāṇa kamma stage begins automatically (with the trigger of ‘kāma saññā‘) and understands how to overcome that kāma saññā to enter the Satipaṭṭhāna Bhūmi, one will be forever trapped in the rebirth process; they may temporarily be reborn in rupa loka, or even arupa loka, but eventually end up in the kāma loka. See “Overcoming Kāma Saññā – Satipaṭṭhāna Bhumi or Jhāna.”
- Those are critical points to understand. Please feel free to ask questions on anything unclear. It takes contemplation during a quiet time to fully understand these issues.
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By the way, my comment in the previous post, “Aren’t all those done in the pursuit of ‘sensory pleasures’ if they are illusions?” is better worded as, “Aren’t all those done in the pursuit of ‘sensory pleasures’ not realizing they are illusions?“
1. “So, does this mean that anicca sanna is cultivated through contemplating examples such as colours and tastes?”
- Yes. It plays a critical role in cultivating anicca sanna. Doesn’t it? What is the point of chasing ‘illusions of pleasure’?
2. I hope you and others will answer the following question, which also gives further insights. Why do people kill, steal, lie, etc., i.e., engage in immoral deeds in general? Aren’t all those done in the pursuit of ‘sensory pleasures’ if they are illusions?
1. We can better understand what is meant by ‘attā‘ and ‘Sakkāya Diṭṭhi‘ with our deeper understanding of the role of ‘distorted sanna‘ in the process of kamma accumulation.
- The mind of any average person (puthujjana) initiates kamma accumulation (same as initiating a Paṭicca Samuppāda process or a pañcupādānakkhandha process) regardless of who it is.
- If all samyojana remain intact, then any sensory input triggers kamma accumulation, even though some may not lead to the generation of potent kamma, i.e., to the ‘nava kamma‘ stage. See “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
2. A good starting point is in the recent discussion on “Post on ‘Buddhist Non-Attachment Is Based on Yoniso Manasikāra’.”
- The reason why any mind would attach to any sensory input is the ‘false/distorted perception (saññā).’ In other words, a puthujjana always acts with ayoniso manasikāra, not knowing about the ‘false/distorted perception (saññā).’ See “Buddhist Non-Attachment Is Based on Yoniso Manasikāra.”
- I will post more in the coming days. Please feel free to comment or ask further questions on either discussion thread.
Yes. That is exactly right. I am glad that you narrowed it down to the exact point.
- For example, science has proven that an apple does not have an intrinsic color of red. It also does not have a ‘sweet taste.’
- Both those perceptions are made up in the mind.
- Scientists say those perceptions arise in the brain. But how can a sweetness or a color perception arise in a brain made of inert atoms and molecules?
Yes. The word ‘attā‘ could have somewhat different meanings depending on the context. Let me take a look at those old posts and see whether I need to revise them. It may take a few days. Please remind me if I don’t post within a few days.
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1. Yes. Skinnerian habit-formation overlaps with Buddhism at a superficial level.
- It is now well established that animal behavior can change drastically. K-9 units of police departments have well-trained dogs, for example.
2. Biological Variation (individual-organismal-differences):
- Lower animals (worms, birds, etc.) hardly change their behavior in specific ways. They all act the same way.
- Higher animals with somewhat developed brains (dogs, chimpanzees, etc.) can be trained to change their gati.
- But, in general, animals cannot change their gati drastically. They live their whole existence within the main types of gati they are born with.
3. However, a human can change their gati drastically. Some live like animals and then are subsequently born in that specific animal realm. Those who engage in vicious acts are likely to be born as lions or tigers. Those who live moral lives and help others are likely to be reborn as humans or Devas. There are many possibilities; see #4 below.
- Humans are easily influenced, especially in the early years. We can clearly see that in society.
- One carries gati to this life from the previous life. Consider a human who has more time in their life at the time of death. They live in the gandhabba state (with only the mental body) until they can enter a ‘suitable womb’ where the gati of the parents are similar to that they had in the previous life with a physical body.
- See, for example, “Buddhist Explanations of Conception, Abortion, and Contraception,” “Cloning and Gandhabba,” “Gati to Bhava to Jāti – Ours to Control,” “Gati and Bhava – Many Varieties.“
4. This is a subject that can be discussed in great detail. See, for example, “Cuti and Marana – Related to Bhava and Jāti.” The following is from that post.
“2. The Buddha divided all existences into five main categories based on predominant gati. The “Gati Sutta (AN 9.68)” lists those five main categories: Hell (niraya), the animal realm (tiracchāna), the hungry ghost realm (peta), humans (manussa), and Deva. Many suttas (including Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta) sometimes lump the Devās in the six Deva realms and Brahmās in 20 Brahma realms into one category as Devās.
- When a lifestream is in a specific existence, it will predominantly have the gati associated with that realm. While in the Deva realms, that living being mainly displays “Deva gati.” For example, Devās in the lower six realms still crave sensual pleasures, i.e., kama raga. Brahmās in the higher 20 realms don’t have cravings for sensual pleasures. But neither will engage in akusala kamma during their life as Deva/Brahma.
- A lifestream in a niraya realm will have the gati of a “hell being.” During such an existence, no pleasant thoughts arise; rather, a painful, angry mindset persists. This bhava has dosa (extreme anger/hate) as the base; of course, moha is there, too.
- In the hungry ghost (peta) realm, the mindset (gati) will be that of one constantly in hunger pangs. This gati is based on lobha (extreme greed) and moha.
- The animal realm has “all three defiled gati,” i.e., lobha, dosa, and moha.”
5. More related posts in “Gati, Bhava, and Jāti.”
1. B.F. Skinner’s Skinnerian view of phenomena is rooted in radical behaviorism, the idea that psychology should study only observable behaviors and their environmental consequences, rejecting the study of internal mental states such as thoughts, feelings, or motivations.
- The following video provides an introduction for those who are not familiar with his ideas.
2. At a superficial level, Skinner’s ideas are compatible with the teachings of the Buddha. However, as stated above, he seems to have rejected the study of internal mental states such as thoughts, feelings, or motivations.
- B.F.Skinner based his conclusions on the behavior of animals under rewards and punishments.
- Recent studies by Dr. Jeffrey Schwartz extend such examinations to humans. See “How Habits are Formed and Broken – A Scientific View.”
- Also see “The Law of Attraction, Habits, Character (Gati), and Cravings (Āsavas)“ and “Habits, Goals, and Character (Gati)“
3. Buddha’s teachings go deeper into the root causes of such behavior.
- Internal mental states, such as thoughts, feelings, or motivations, underlie one’s actions, speech, and conduct in general.
- The studies of Skinner and Schwartz consider only the influence of one’s environment on one’s behavior. Those do play a significant role. However, until one’s mental states are changed permanently, such changes are temporary.
- For example, a child brought up to be a ‘good, moral person’ in a ‘moral family’ could start associating with immoral people and change, or vice versa.
- In other words, one’s character (gati, pronounced ‘gathi’) must be changed permanently for such changes to take hold.
We can continue the discussion, based on your thoughts after you read the references in #2.
JayeshP asked: “If the container is fully sealed and no external physical entry seems possible later, would it be correct to understand that the gandhabba had already taken rebirth in the egg before the container was sealed?”
1. There is another possibility. The Buddha explained that there are four types of births: jalābuja (womb), aṇḍaja (egg), saṁsedaja (chemical), and opapātika (spontaneous). See “Four Types of Births in Buddhism.”
- In the first two cases, ‘the biological basis’ needed for a gandhabba to merge with is created in a womb (e.g., humans) or an egg (e.g., chickens). Then a gandhabba can enter the womb or egg, and that completes the birth of a ‘new life.’ Since a gandhabba is ‘smaller than an atom in modern science’, it can go through the body of a woman or a chicken.
- In the third mode (saṁsedaja), ‘the biological basis’ needed for a gandhabba to merge with can be created in chemical processes, as in rotten food. While this mode is extremely rare for humans, it can happen in the cases you described (“In kitchens it is common to observe small insects such as pantry moths appearing inside tightly sealed containers of flour or semolina. Even when grains are stored in airtight glass jars, after some time larvae and moths appear inside the container.”).
- Once the ‘biological basis’ is complete inside a sealed jar, the gandhabba of the corresponding insect can enter the ‘tightly sealed container’ just like it can enter a womb or an egg.
2. Also see “post on Antarābhava Discussion in Kathāvatthu – Not Relevant to Gandhabba.” The following quote is from that discussion: ‘There are a couple of accounts in the Tipitaka where a human baby was born on a flower. Here, it is a saṁsedaja birth. I think bhikkhuni Uppalavaṇṇā, who became an Arahant, was born on a flower. That means a zygote assembled on a flower by natural means (chemical composition), and the gandhabba of Uppalavaṇṇā merged with that zygote. That is an extremely rare event..’ Such cases of saṁsedaja births are extremely rare for humans.
- Related posts: “Buddhist Explanations of Conception, Abortion, and Contraception” and “Cloning and Gandhabba.”
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Let me answer your specific questions by quoting them.
1. “So my question is that, is it the case that these jhanas/samapattis are not there after arahant gets separated from 31 realms, simply because they are not required/necessary anymore?”
- The point is that jhanas are associated with (or related to) the 16 rupa loka Brahma realms. In the same way, samapattis are related to the 4 arupa loka Brahma realms. For example, those humans who cultivate jhanas in born in one of the 16 rupa loka Brahma realms, and those who cultivate samapattis will be reborn in one of the 4 arupa loka Brahma realms.
- Therefore, those 20 realms are part of the world. The 31 realms in the world include 11 other realms in kama loka (with the 4 apayas, human realm, and 6 Deva realms).
- When one attains Arahanthood, one will be released from rebirths in all 31 realms. When the Arahant dies, they will not be reborn in any realm; it is the end of the cycle of rebirths and the end of even a trace of suffering.
- Furthermore, while it is good to cultivate jhanas or samapattis, they are not necessary to attain any magga phala, including Arahanthood. See my comment on February 25, 2026 at 5:56 am in “Vipassanā Methods.”
2. “Basically I am asking is that, is the reason for jhanas/samapattis not being there after separation from 31 realms of existence is just that, they are not required anymore? “
- Yes. See the last bullet point above.
- Many have attained even Arahanthood without attaining jhana. The majority of Arahants belong to that category of paññāvimutti Arahants; see “Pannāvimutti – Arahanthood without Jhāna.”
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“1. What if a person has been meditating for many years but is not able to get into jhana?”
- It is not necessary to be able to get into a jhana to make progress on the Noble Path and to attain magga phala.
- Jhanas correspond to mental states of Brahmas in various realms of rupa loka. Getting to a jhana is an anatariya kamma (good one) that guarantees one of rebirth in a Brahma realm. So, it is not bad. However, unless that person has attained at least the Sotapanna stage, he/she will return to the human realm at the end of that Brahma existence and can then be reborn in an apaya; i.e., cultivating a jhana does not free one from future rebirths in an apaya.
- Thus, one should focus on attaining the Sotapanna stage rather than jhana. Some people attain jhana even without trying, and that would be a bonus.
” 2. Is just remaining in jhana meditating, in light of that only an arahat has broken the 6th and 7th fetters (basically craving brahmaloka) so even an anagami will have attachment for jhana?”
- Fetters (samyojana) are broken in a stepwise manner. One breaks the first three (sakkaya ditthi, vicikiccha, silabbata paramasa) when one attains the Sotapanna stage. Then they break the kama raga and patigha samyojana to attain the Anagami stage (those two samyojana are only weakened at the Sakadagami stage, which a Sotapanna would attain before the Anagami stage). The 6th and 7th samyojana (rupa raga and arupa raga) can be broken only by an Anagami. An Anagami attains the Arahant stage by eliminating three more samyojana (mana, uddacca, avijja). So, an Arahant has broken not only the 6th and 7th, but all ten samyojana.
- One with any jhana has not broken any samyojana unless they had also attained a magga phala, Sotapanna through the Arahant stage.
” 3. What if a person meditates but fails completely to make any progress, or does not know how to identify progress?”
- This is why it is good to understand the “Sabbāsava Sutta (MN 2)” I referred to in my previous comment. I will try to address that in the post. It may take a couple of weeks to write that post.
- In the meantime, everyone is welcome to read the sutta and ask any questions they would like clarified.
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P.S. By the way, one attains the Sotapanna stage by completing step (i) in the sutta (first section of the sutta) that I stated in my previous comment as follows:
(i) First, one must engage in contemplation to grasp the key concepts og Buddha’s worldview; this is ‘Dassanā pahātabba‘ or ‘getting rid (pahātabba) of wrong views (Dassanā).’ This is the first section of the sutta on ‘Defilements Given Up by Seeing.’
Yes. I think it is time to write a new post on mediation. I will try to base it on the “Sabbāsava Sutta (MN 2)” because it lays out the key ideas.
Basically, meditation can be divided into three categories:
(i) First, one must engage in contemplation to grasp the key concepts og Buddha’s worldview; this is ‘Dassanā pahātabba‘ or ‘getting rid (pahātabba) of wrong views (Dassanā).’ This is the first section of the sutta on ‘Defilements Given Up by Seeing.’
(ii) Then one must prepare the environment/conditions suitable to engage in ‘Bhāvanā.‘ These are discussed in sections 2 through 6.
(iii) Engage in ‘Bhāvanā‘ (actual meditation) is discussed in Section 7 (last section) of the sutta.
- I invite all to post comments/suggestions. I can write the post based on those.
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P.S. I saw Tetsuo’s comment after I posted my comment. Yes. Those are valid comments. But I think the sutta‘s analysis may help with some ideas.
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Yes. It is all about ‘how suffering is initiated/maintained’ and how ‘it can be stopped.’
- The critical point is that ‘suffering’ does not mean the ‘feeling of discomfort or pain’ at that moment.
- It is about ‘suffering in the rebirth process.’
- Thus, even if the feeling experienced at that moment is a ‘sukha vedana,’ attaching to it will still maintain the rebirth process. It will never stop ‘future suffering.’
- But that does mean one must avoid all ‘sukha vedana.’ Initially, one must stop doing akusala kamma based on attachment to such sukha vedana. However, as one comprehends more of the ‘anicca nature’ of trying to get more of such sukha vedana, one will avoid excess sukha vedana and try to live a simple life.
- Also, there is no point in subjecting oneself willingly to ‘dukha vedana‘ either. After all, the goal is to stop all ‘dukha vedana.’
The Buddha explained how suffering arises (dukkha samudaya; related to samudaya dhamma in the verse) and how it can be stopped (dukkha nirodha; related to nirodha dhamma in the verse).
- As long as the rebirth process continues, suffering does not stop. Of course, there can be bouts of pleasure within that time, for example, when born in a Deva/ Brahma realm (even some humans suffer much less than most humans). However, most rebirths are in lower realms (apayas), and that cannot be stopped until one at least comprehends dukkha samudaya.
- A key aspect of dukkha samudaya is the ‘seed for attachment to sensory inputs.’ That is the ‘kāma saññā‘ (perception of sensory attractions). We would not attach to sensory inputs unless they have colors, tastes, smells, pleasing sounds, or touch (sex included). But the Buddha taught (and modern science confirms) that things in the world do not have those attractive features; i.e., they are ‘mirages’; they are made up by the mind (or, scientists say, by the brain). See “Human Life is Unlivable in a ‘Colorless’ World.”
- That understanding is the key to dukkha nirodha. One becomes a Sotapanna by ‘seeing that clearly.’ (dassanaṁ suvisuddhaṁ in the verse).
I hope you get the idea. Please feel free to ask questions. Of course, it must be explained in detail, for example, how dukkha samudaya is maintained with each attachment to a sensory event via Paṭicca Samuppāda, starting with ‘avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra.’ That step is initiated with the mirage of a ‘kāma saññā.‘
- See “What Does “Paccayā” Mean in Paṭicca Samuppāda?“
- Once that is understood, one’s mind would never be ‘fooled’ by the mirage of ‘kāma saññā,‘ and one becomes a Sotapanna. However, a Sotapanna has not yet eliminated the tendency to attach to such ‘kāma saññā,‘ i.e., kāma rāga. That happens after cultivating Satipaṭṭhāna, and then one becomes an Anāgāmi.
We wish you well in your efforts. May the Blessings of the Triple Gem be with you in your efforts! Theruwan Saranayi!
- However, regarding your comment: ” So for now I will continue practicing mindfulness in daily life without worrying too much about resolving every philosophical question immediately.”
- The question of whether ‘colors’ are present in the external world is not a philosophical issue, if you intended to say that.
- First of all, it is an established scientific fact that ‘colors’ are NOT present in the external world. However, most scientists and philosophers are on the wrong track, trying to explain how the ‘perception of color’ arose through evolution.
- The ‘perception of color’ (and taste, smell, touch, etc., that also lead to a ‘pleasure sensation’) ARE built into our bodies via Paticca Samuppada. One becomes a Sandiṭṭhiko (Sotapanna) by comprehending that: “Sandiṭṭhiko – What Does It Mean?“
“If everything is conditioned, even thoughts and wisdom, is there such a thing as free action?”
1. Good question. This question gets to the heart of the distinction between the ‘purana kamma‘ and ‘nava kamma‘ stages.
- The ‘purana kamma‘ stage, especially at the beginning, runs on ‘auto pilot’ without thinking, and is controlled by two things: (i) the number of unbroken samyojana one has (at the very beginning in the ‘purana kamma‘ stage), and (ii) one’s mindset (gati, pronounced ‘gathi’) at that moment (toward the middle of the ‘purana kamma‘ stage). Therefore, controlling this process requires comprehension of the ‘purana kamma‘ stage.
- On the other hand, we become aware of our thoughts in the ‘nava kamma‘ stage, and thus are able to control them. This is where we do mano, vaci, and kaya kamma (dasa akusala) with intention.
- One must live a moral life controlling the ‘nava kamma‘ stage, while learning Noble Truths/Paticca Samuppada/Tilakkhana to eliminate samyojana and gati in the ‘purana kamma‘ stage.
- I described the basic idea in “Kamma Nirodha – How Does It Happen?“
2. You wrote, “I learn better through discussion rather than reading long paragraphs.”
- If you understand Sinhala, the following discussion could help understand the ‘purana kamma‘ and ‘nava kamma‘ stages (they have more): “බුදු දහම, මාර්ග ඵල සහ මග වැඩීම“.
- I referred to it in #6 of the post “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
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