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I am in the process of rewriting some old posts on kamma and kamma vipaka.
- It is good to understand those two concepts before studying pancakkhandha or pancupadanakkhandha. I will get to that hopefully soon.
- In the meantime, please read the following posts and ask questions if anything is unclear.
Kusala/Akusala And Puñña/Apuñña Kamma | Pure Dhamma
Ten Immoral Actions (Dasa Akusala)
Details Of Kamma – Intention, Who Is Affected, Kamma Patha | Pure Dhamma
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1. The deeper aspects of Buddha’s teachings became clear to me only after I realized the huge role of the ‘distorted saññā.’ For us in ‘kama loka,’ it comes in various types of ‘kama loka saññā’ associated with all sensory inputs coming through our senses.
- With that understanding, I realized that there are no separate sets of ‘vipaka vedana‘ and ‘kamma vedana.’ In the same way, vinnana also cannot be separated into ‘vipaka vinnana‘ and ‘kamma vinnana.‘
- Even my teacher, Waharaka Thero, was also misled by the Tipitaka Commentary “Paṭicca Samuppāda Vibhaṅga.” Such categories are discussed there under ‘Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda.’
- However, the only Paṭicca Samuppāda discussed in the suttas is the Idappaccayātā Paṭicca Samuppāda.
- We know that almost all suttas were delivered by the Buddha. On the other hand, Commentaries (even those included in the Tipitaka) were written later. Therefore, we must give preference to the suttas, especially when there is an inconsistency.
- While the Tipitaka Commentaries are generally reliable, this specific part on ‘Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda’ is in conflict with the suttas.
- I outlined a post recently on this subject, and it provides this background. It is only a draft, and I need to complete it: “Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda – Evidence Against It“
2. The kamma accumulation process starts with a sensory input, and it is triggered by the ‘distorted saññā.’ It happens in two stages: ‘purāna kamma’ and ‘nava kamma’: “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation“
- As pointed out in “Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda – Evidence Against It” the ‘vipaka stage discussed in ‘Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda’ is the ‘purāna kamma’ stage discussed in the suttas.
- Thus, someone had made an error in composing a separate ‘Avyākata Paṭicca Samuppāda’ in the“Paṭicca Samuppāda Vibhaṅga.”
- Even though I have been revising some posts with the incorrect interpretations, there are still some that require revision. Please keep this in mind when reading old posts. If you see ‘vipaka vedana‘ and ‘kamma vedana‘ or ‘vipaka vinnana‘ and ‘kamma vinnana‘ discussed, those posts need revision. I hope to get to them in time. I just don’t have enough time to get it done quickly.
3. If anyone would like to point out any errors in my interpretations (based on the Tipitaka), I welcome such comments. Please email me ([email protected]) or comment on this thread in the forum.
- Our goal is to sort out the correct teachings of the Buddha. Those teachings have been so much distorted over the years.
P.S. Julian asked for clarity on ‘kama guna.’ The following post could be helpful: “Kāma Guṇa – Origin of Attachment (Tanhā).”
After reviewing the suggested posts above, I realized it is a good idea to write an introductory post tying up Paṭicca Samuppāda and pañcupādānakkhandha. Both are initiated by a sensory event and are affected by the ‘distorted saññā.’ I realized that many people (especially those who are new to this website) are not aware of the role played by the ‘distorted saññā.’
- I will try to do that in a couple of days.
- As I mentioned above, I also need to revise some old posts. I will post any updates here.
I need to rewrite those posts. I will post them here once I do that.
- In the meantime, please read the following recent posts on the subject: “Five Aggregates (Pañcakkhandha)– New Series”
- Please feel free to ask questions about those posts. Please refer to the specific post and the bullet number if that helps to clarify our questions.
P.S. You can edit a comment if done within an hour of the original post. The site administrators (myself and Seng Kiat Ng) can edit a post at any time if requested by the person who posted it. If a correction to a post is needed, please email me: [email protected]
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Hello Julian,
Namarupa is a somewhat complex subject. Can you provide the link(s) to the post(s) that you read on it? I may need to revise them. In some old posts, I may have talked about vipaka vinna and kamma vinnana. But I realized that there is no such distinction. I can revise those posts and address your questions there.
Regarding the second question: Mental images (namarupa) arise first, and then ‘thoughts’ about them arise. So, they are not the same.
- Namarupa are mental constructions. The same object could generate slightly different namarupa in different people.
- That distinction can be significant among different species. For example, while humans see a rainbow with many colors, some animals only see it with fewer colors or in black and white.
Color is not an inherent property of light or objects themselves—both are colorless.
- The ‘color perception’, according to modern science, is explained well in the following video by a physicist.
- At 2.30 minutes, he says the process of how the brain interprets the signals received from the sensors at the back of the retina as ‘red’ is not understood by science.
- That is because ‘color perception’ does not occur in the brain. Data from the brain is sent to the ‘seat of the mind’ (hadaya vatthu), and it is the mind that perceives the ‘color of red’ in strawberries.
In the same way, taste is also mind-made. While humans like the taste of strawberries and don’t like the taste of grass, a cow likes to eat grass and avoid strawberries.
- Modern science has recently confirmed that our experiences with all five physical senses do not tally with reality; i.e., color, taste, etc., are mind-made (scientists say such ‘illusions’ are made by the brain).
- See, for example, “Without ‘Mind-Made’ Perception, World Is Colorless, Soundless, Tasteless, Odorless, and Touchless.”
Regarding your question: “Deaf people must think almost exclusively in images while (almost) blind people may still have some visual thoughts?”
- Deaf people are unaware of sounds. They do not even know anything about sounds. In the same way, those born blind have no perception of ‘sight/visuals’ (they don’t experience the world in ‘black and white’ either; vision is simply missing!).
- They make their decisions based on the other sensory faculties.
- I have firsthand experience of this issue. I had brain surgery to remove a non-malignant tumor from my brain. Before that, I had all my senses working well. During the operation, the nerves connecting the sensors in my nose to my brain got cut, so I don’t smell anything now. That sense faculty is simply absent now.
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The following suttas can help you get a good idea of a ‘Noble Friend‘ or ‘Kalyāṇamitta.’ Here, ‘mitta‘ is a friend, and ‘Kalyāṇa‘ means to ‘help with getting rid of defilements.’
1. “Kalyāṇamitta Sutta (SN 45.63)” states that the only way for a puthujjana to follow that Noble Path is with the help of a Kalyāṇamitta.
- That is because one must learn the ‘previously unheard worldview of a Buddha’ to start on the Path as a Sotapanna. After that, a Sotapanna can do the rest even by himself.
- Of course, the best Kalyāṇamitta is the Buddha himself. However, anyone who has comprehended the ‘previously unheard worldview of a Buddha’ (i.e., anyone above the Sotapanna stage) can be a Kalyāṇamitta.
- In the English translation, @1.4 says that a Kalyāṇamitta is a ‘good friend.’ Obviously, that is wrong. That also gives the false impression that one must be ‘good friends’ with that person on a personal level. That is not the case. One only needs to hear the ‘worldview of a Buddha’ from someone who has comprehended it and can explain it.
2. In the “Upaḍḍha Sutta (SN 45.2)” the Ven. Ananda asked the Buddha whether a Kalyāṇamitta is responsible for ‘half the spiritual life’ of a puthujjana. The Buddha replied that a Kalyāṇamitta is fully responsible.
- That is because one cannot attain the Sotapanna stage (to start on the Noble Path) without a Kalyāṇamitta, as explained above.
- Also see “Sāriputta Sutta (SN 45.3),” which states the same.
- Also see “Kalyāṇamitta Sutta (SN 3.18)” for more details.
3. Furthermore, even the Buddha cannot be a Kalyāṇamitta if the person is not capable of comprehending the teachings.
- For example, Ven. Ananda and bhikkhu Devadatta both became bhikkhus at the same time. They both lived close to the Buddha for many years, listening to almost identical suttas by the Buddha. However, while Ven. Ananda attained the Sotapanna stage quickly and later attained Arahantship, bhikkhu Devadatta never attained the Sotapanna stage. Not only that, but he was reborn in an apaya for injuring the Buddha.
- Thus, even the Buddha could not become a Kalyāṇamitta for bhikkhu Devadatta.
4. I hope you can get a good idea of a Kalyāṇamitta from the above.
- The critical point is that one must not only learn the ‘previously unheard worldview of a Buddha’ but also fully comprehend it.
- The Kalyāṇamitta does not need to be a ‘personal friend’ or even live close by. What is important is: (i) to receive a correct explanation of the ‘worldview of the Buddha’ AND (ii) to comprehend it.
In addition to the above website, there is a new Vietnamese Pure Dhamma website: https://puredhamma.vn
- I added a link to both websites in the secondary menu at the end of each page on puredhamma.net: Pure Dhamma Essays in Vietnamese
- Also note that puredhamma content in several languages (German, Korean, Portuguese, Vietnamese) are available, and the links are in the secondary menu (at the end of each page) on the puredhamma.net website.
Yes. That is correct.
1. However, there should be a slight adjustment to the following paragraph: “Both Arahants and puthujjanas experience kāma saññā, or distorted perception. But the PS process begins only when there are remaining fetters. Therefore, avijjā is the minimum requirement for the start of Paṭicca Samuppāda. And the PS process applies to all sentient beings in samsara.”
It can be re-stated as follows: “Both Arahants and puthujjanas experience kāma saññā, or distorted perception. But the PS process begins only when there are remaining fetters relevant to the loka one is in. The PS process for the three lokās is triggered by the corresponding ‘rāga saṁyojana,’ i.e., kāma rāga saṁyojana for the kāma loka, rupa rāga saṁyojana for the rupa loka, and arupa rāga saṁyojana for the arupa loka.
- For example, even an anariya arupa loka Brahma would have all three types of ‘rāga saṁyojana.‘ However, as long as he is an anariya arupa loka Brahma, avijjā can be triggered only with the arupa rāga saṁyojana.
- In another example, the Paṭicca Samuppāda process for an anariya human without jhāna can be triggered only via the kāma rāga saṁyojana. However, if that anariya human cultivates an anariya jhāna, avijjā cannot be triggered in him via the kāma rāga saṁyojana, but only with the rupa rāga saṁyojana, while he is in a jhāna.
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2. The main point is that having root causes (represented by the three types of saṁyojana in the case above) is not enough to trigger avijjā or initiate a PS process. The relevant conditions must be there too. That is why avijjā cannot be triggered in any Brahma via the kāma rāga saṁyojana as long as they remain in a Brahma realm.
- Of course, if the root causes are not there, then a PS process cannot be triggered by any condition. That holds for an Arahant.
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3. The critical impact of the above discussion is the following. Even if one has all ten saṁyojana intact, generating avijjā requires the triggering of one of the three ‘rāga saṁyojana‘ via one of the three main types of saññā: kāma saññā, rupa loka saññā, or arupa loka saññā.
- That is because a ‘thought process’ or, more correctly, a ‘citta vithi‘ starts at the ‘kāma dhātu,’ rupa dhātu,’ or ‘arupa dhātu‘ stage.
- Consider a human for whom the above process starts at the ‘kāma dhātu‘ stage. If the ‘kāma saññā‘ were not automatically triggered, there would be no condition to cause avijjā and start a PS process.
- For further details, see “What Does ‘Paccayā’ Mean in Paṭicca Samuppāda?,” “Mind ‘Starts’ at the Kāma Dhātu Stage With Kāma Saññā,” and “Critical Role of Saññā in Mind Contamination.”
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Yes. Those are excellent ideas.
1. One cannot get into a university without first completing primary, secondary, and high school, in that order. For you, your decision makes very good sense, to start at “Moral Living and Fundamentals.”
- After that, you can skim through other sections to decide on the next level. The “Living Dhamma” section is a possibility. Since you have a science background, the “Dhamma and Science” section is another possibility.
- Even once one understands the basics, it does not make sense to jump into deep suttas. This is what I have emphasized, especially over the past month or two, and I have started a new series of posts on such a systematic approach: “Buddha Dhamma – Systematic.” You should get there once you have a good idea about the basics.
2. Keeping notes is also an excellent idea.
- That way, you can see how you progress over time. Furthermore, you can keep revising earlier notes as you broaden your knowledge base.
- When I was in school, making notes was part of my learning process. Rather than just reading, concepts sink in better once one starts taking notes.
- P.S. In a way, I am continuing that practice with my study of Buddha Dhamma by writing posts on this website. It takes a lot of effort and study of suttas to write a post. I need to make sure what I write is consistent with the Tipitaka, so I try to cite the relevant suttas. There are many old posts on the website that need revision, but I am driven by trying to extend my understanding. So I keep postponing the rewrite of some old posts.
3. Another thing that could be helpful is to get familiar with the Pali language.
- Some Pali words do not have exact English translations. Many words have different meanings based on the context. See, for example, “Atta – Two Very Different Meanings.”
- It is good to learn to pronounce Pali words, too. In the late 1800s, European scholars adopted a convention to write Pali words in the English alphabet to avoid the words becoming too long. For example, anicca is pronounced ‘anichcha.’ Thus, the ‘ch’ sound is represented by only ‘c.’ Many people are not aware of this. Another example is ‘th’ is represented by only “t.’ Thus, the Pali word ‘gathi’ is written as ‘gati.’ See “‘Tipiṭaka English’ Convention Adopted by Early European Scholars – Part 1.”
- That last post is in the “Historical Background” section. That could be another section of interest.
The easiest way to see the difference between an ‘external rupa‘ and the corresponding ‘mind-made rupa‘ is as follows, with a sight of an external object.
1. In the above, I wrote: “However, the leaves are not green, and the apples are not red. The colors are added by the mind!”
- It goes even further. Without the mind adding the light and colors, we would not see anything at all. Not even black and white, because those are also colors. It would be as if we were all are born blind.
- However, the sun would still be emitting sunlight. It is just that sunlight is electromagnetic radiation, and there are colors in it. The leaves or the apples do not have colors either, even though the tree with the apples exists too. Everyone should confirm this using their favorite AI bot, such as ChatGPT or Google Gemini.
- The ‘illusion of light and colors’ is added by the mind. This is an amazing fact that is even hard to fathom, as I explained in “Colors Are Mind-Made (Due to Kāma Saññā).”
2. As I have stated many times, even a living Arahant (living the daily life) receives the ‘kama sanna‘ and thus can see the apple tree and the red apples.
- However, when they are in Arahant-phala samapatti (which is equivalent to the time when they attained the Arahant-phala), the mind is free of the ‘kama sanna‘ or any type of sanna associated with the world, i.e., any ‘lokiya sanna.‘ During Arahant-phala samapatti, an Arahant would not see, hear, or otherwise experience anything at all. It would be as if they did not experience the external world at all.
- Once the Buddha was in Arahant-phala samapatti in a hut when there was heavy rain and lightning was flashing, and two people and four oxen were killed nearby. When the Buddha came out of the hut, a large crowd had gathered to see the destruction. They were astonished to hear the Buddha say that he had neither seen nor heard any of it. See “Mahāparinibbāna Sutta (DN 15).”
Yes. It is a great analogy.
- Jaro wrote: “Ultimately, we are craving our own suffering.”
- That is the bottom line.
Here is another way to say that. The Buddha repeatedly stated that our cravings are for things that are not real. The ‘rupa‘ that arises in the mind is unlike anything that exists in the external world.
- For example, there is an apple tree with apples that exists in the world.
- However, the leaves are not green, and the apples are not red. The colors are added by the mind! Of course, the taste is added by the mind, too.
- Honey appears brown and tasty to us. It may not be brown and definitely not tasty for a lion. The lion experiences a world that is totally different from ours. Such illusions are generated through Paticca Samuppada to match the gati (pronounced ‘gathi’) of a human versus that of a lion.
- The unfortunate fact is that the ‘illusion’ of color, taste, smell, etc., are built into us via Paticca Samuppada. That is why it feels so real. Even after attaining Arahanthood, one would feel a watered-down, initial stage of that ‘kama sanna.’ That sanna grows in steps if one has all ten samyojana unbroken.
- Unfortunately, a puthujjana gets the ‘full brunt of it’ with joyful sense arising in the mind! That effect is big enough even for a Sotapanna (who has eliminated only three samyojana), and it takes a real effort to overcome that ‘kama sanna‘ for even a Sotapanna.
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Thank you, Saurabh!
- It could be helpful to read the other thread, where Jaro provided an analogy: “Post on Kāma Is a Pit of Glowing Coals – Dukkhadhamma Sutta.”
- Related post: “Kāma Is a Pit of Glowing Coals – Dukkhadhamma Sutta“
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Thanks, Jaro, for bringing up the Māgandiya Sutta. As you correctly pointed out, it discusses the same two-strong-men analogy as in the Dukkhadhamma Sutta, but embedded within the ‘leper analogy.’
1. The following link points to the verse Jaro referred to: Māgaṇḍiya Sutta (MN 75): ‘Seyyathāpi, māgaṇḍiya, kuṭṭhī puriso arugatto pakkagatto kimīhi khajjamāno nakhehi vaṇamukhāni vippatacchamāno aṅgārakāsuyā kāyaṁ paritāpeyya.’
- The English translation there is, “Suppose there was a person affected by leprosy, with sores and blisters on their limbs. Being devoured by worms, scratching with their nails at the opening of their wounds, they’d cauterize their body over a pit of glowing coals.”
- Thus, ‘kuṭṭhī puriso‘ is translated as ‘a person affected by leprosy.’
- However, I think the word ‘kuṭṭhī‘ refers to something like eczema rash, but much worse; there could be tiny worms inside those sores. That disease kuṭṭhī may no longer exist, and the closest match today could be an ‘eczema rash,‘ where the person would get relief by scratching it. A person with ‘kuṭṭhī‘ would also feel relief by getting the wounds close to a fire/heat.
- I spent some time searching for symptoms of the disease ‘leprosy,‘ and that seems different.
2. The relevant point, as emphasized by Jaro, can be better understood by examining the sutta starting with that verse @marker 13.1.
- A better translation of the above verse is: “Suppose there was a person affected by kuṭṭhī, with sores and blisters on their limbs. Being devoured by worms, they would seek relief by scratching with their nails at the opening of their wounds, and by getting close to a pit of glowing coals.” (In other words, scratching with their nails and getting close to a pit of glowing coals is a ‘pleasure’ for him.)
3. Now, let me provide a better translation for the subsequent verses starting @marker 13.2:
“Their friends and relatives would get a physician to treat the patient. The physician would cure the patient, and the patient would be healthy and happy again.
Then the cured person (X) would see another person (Y) affected by ‘kuṭṭhī, with sores and blisters on their limbs. Being devoured by worms, Y would also seek relief by scratching with their nails at the opening of their wounds, and by getting close to a pit of glowing coals (Y also gets ‘pleasure’ doing those things).
What do you think, Māgaṇḍiya? Would that person X envy that other person Y getting ‘pleasure’ that way?”
“No, worthy Gotama.
Why is that?
Because while X experienced that ‘temporary relief’ only when he had the disease. When there’s no disease, there’s no need to seek relief.”
- The point is that X or Y would have the urge to scratch their sores and seek the heat of a fire only when they are affected by that disease. With the pain they constantly feel, the scratching and heat seem to provide a ‘pleasure.’
4. Then @marker 14.1, the Buddha explained to Māgaṇḍiya: “In the same way, Māgaṇḍiya, when I was still a layperson, I used to entertain myself with sights … sounds …”
- Thus, the Buddha was saying that he had also sought ‘sensual pleasures’ while living the ‘householder life’ before attaining Buddhahood.
5. Thus, the Māgandiya Sutta provides an analogy to illustrate the ‘true nature’ of sensual pleasures.
- When the mind of a puthujjana is burdened with raga, dosa, and moha (i.e., panca nivarana), it is under constant stress (even though a puthujjana does not feel it that way).
- That is why a puthujjana‘s mind is always seeking remedies (sensual pleasures) to ‘calm down’ the stressed mind.
- In other words, a puthujjana is like person Y and the Buddha is like person X (after being cured). There is no need for the Buddha to seek sensual pleasures!
6. I think that is, in essence, what Jaro also tried to explain. I wanted to provide a better translation of the Māgandiya Sutta than the one in the link in #1 above.
- I am glad to see Jaro getting the point!
- P.S. Related post: “Kāma Is a Pit of Glowing Coals – Dukkhadhamma Sutta“
Thank you, DhammaSponge.
- I will wait to hear from others.
I also suggest rereading my comment above from May 23, 2026, at 5:42 pm. The account of Channa discussed there is relevant to the following comment by DhammaSponge:
- “Less people, but still a good amount, will append to that, “However, despite me employing this knowledge and Dhamma, despite the fact that I in real time am doing my best to recognize that this sanna is false, that this experience is simply something that my mind is laminating over to try to make it to my satisfaction, I keep giving in and falling for it.”
