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1. Jittananto initiated this thread by quoting a person (let’s call X) who criticized Waharaka Thero’s interpretation of anicca. At the end of the quote, person X says, “I invite anyone who is familiar with waharaka thero to point out any errors I have made in quoting/paraphrasing him, and forgive me for any errors or any offence from this post.”
- Perhaps Jittananto can invite him/her to join the discussion.
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2. Stacy has provided some key insights into problems in the X’s critique. I can also provide the following observations for X to consider and respond to.
- Of course, “impermanence” is a feature of anything in the material world. Modern science has proven that not only everything on Earth, but also all stars and planets in the entire universe, are impermanent. However, the Buddha pointed out that it is a result of the ‘anicca nature.’
- The impermanence associated with material things we like leads to suffering when they inevitably become damaged or broken. Impermanence associated with those we love leads to suffering when they get sick or die. We all are destined to get old and die, too! All this is suffering. But, again, impermanence is the result, not a root cause.
- We cannot eliminate the suffering associated with impermanence by just observing the fact that everything is impermanent.
- The Buddha explained that impermanent “things and living beings” arise due to living beings not comprehending the “anicca nature” and engaging in immoral deeds. The root cause is a mental process!
- The Buddha did not elaborate on the origin of the inert material things because that is not necessary to attain Nibbana. He explained in detail how each living being generates kammic energy to fuel their future lives. That is the Paticca Samuppada process. It is a fully mental process! It begins with avijja (ignorance) and culminates in bhava (kammic energy that can generate future lives), resulting in jati (future rebirths). Those kammic energies are generated through (abhi)sankhara caused by avijja. That is the bridge between mind and matter (mind energy leading to subtle matter in a manomaya kaya or gandhabba)!
- When one begins to understand the deeper aspects of the Paticca Samuppada process, one can also see how even the external world arises through Paticca Samuppada. Only a brief description (without getting into Paticca Samuppada) is given in the Aggañña Sutta. See “Aggañña Sutta Discussion – Introduction ” and “Buddhism and Evolution – Aggañña Sutta (DN 27).” Again, it is a waste of time to spend time on that process.
- But it is good to know that everything in this world is based on “mental power.” See “Manōpubbangamā dhammā..” which means “mind is the precursor to everything.”
P.S. Also, the reason for anything created via “mental energy” to be impermanent: Mental energy (or any energy) can last only a finite time.
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I may not have discussed the following point in the above-referred post, “Is Cakkhu Viññāṇa Free of Defilements?“
- The chart in #3 in that post shows kamma generation in two stages: “purāṇa kamma” (initial weak kamma) and “nava kamma” (new strong kamma).
- The beginning of the “purāṇa kamma” stage is where initial kamma generation takes place with “avijjā paccayā saṅkhāra; saṅkhāra paccayā viññāna.” These saṅkhāra are not potent, and they are called saṅkappa. This can be called the “vipāka viññāna” stage. That is why it is called “avyākata.”
- Potent kamma (that can bring vipaka in future lives) happens in the “nava kamma” stage with saṅkhāra. That happens after the “taṇhā paccayā upādāna” step (with strong kamma with speech and actions with the physical body: lying, stealing, etc.)
- More information in “Purāna and Nava Kamma – Sequence of Kamma Generation.”
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1. I think you are under the impression that “Avyakata” implies “no defilements.” That is not correct.
- Even a “vipaka vinnana” that arises at the beginning of a sensory event is defiled.
- See “Is Cakkhu Viññāṇa Free of Defilements?“
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2. You wrote: “The Pāli saṃ- (Sanskrit: sam-) is a very old Indo‑Aryan prefix.”
- There is no root with “saṃ” in Pāli. It is only in Sanskrit.
- However, many words with the root “san” are sometimes pronounced as “saṃ” because they rhyme better that way. For example, “sammā,” which comes from “saṅ” + “mā,” which means “to become free of saṅ.”
- See “What is “San”? Meaning of Sansāra (or Saṃsāra).”
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3. You wrote: “khāra (to make) → saṅ‑khāra → “things made together, compounded, constructed”
- Not correct.
- See #5 through to the end in “What is “San”? Meaning of Sansāra (or Saṃsāra).” Many “san” words are discussed there.
Yes. All other vedanas are mental. But there are two types of “mental vedanā.”
- We experience five types of sensory experiences via the physical body (let us ignore the sensory inputs that come directly to the mind via dhammā). They are sights, sounds, smells, tastes, and body touches.
- That last category is “kāyika vedanā.” The other four (sights, sounds, smells, tastes) do not generate vedanā via the nervous system. Yet we experience joy with them too, and strictly speaking, those are due to sanna (that is what I call “distorted sanna“). They are called “cetasika vedanā“. Both kāyika vedanā and cetasika vedanā also arise in Arahants.
- Now, all those vedanā arise automatically. As I mentioned, Arahants also experience them.
- In response to them, we generate samphassa-jā-vedanā (additional mind-made vedanā) and continue to attach to them as we enjoy the sensory experience. They can be due to kāyika vedanā or cetasika vedanā. Those are the vedanā you referred to in your first post as kāyasamphassajaṃ and manosamphassajaṃ.
- Now, Arahants do not generate the second type of samphassa-jā-vedanā. To generate those, one must attach to the first type of vedanā with ignorance. Arahants fully understand that kāyika vedanā will be there until death, i.e., until their physical bodies die. They also understand that cetasika vedanā are due to “distorted sanna.”
- See “Vedanā (Feelings) Arise in Two Ways.” This is an old post, but I hope it will still be helpful.
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Zapper wrote: “Also, I forgot to make my point clear.
By bodily reactions, I mean, for example, if someone sees an agreeable visual form, the physical body (Kāya) reacts to it.”________
I am glad that you did. It is essential to settle that first.
- That is incorrect. “kāyika dukkha” means dukkha vedana associated with bodily injuries, sicknesses, etc. It is a vedana felt by the physical body. It is experienced via the nervous system in the physical body.
Yes. Both “Dhammā loke piyarūpaṃ sātarūpaṃ, etthesā taṇhā uppajjamānā uppajjati, ettha nivisamānā nivisati” AND “Dhammasaññā loke piyarūpaṃ sātarūpaṃ, etthesā taṇhā uppajjamānā uppajjati, ettha nivisamānā nivisati” refer to Dhammā (and not the teachings).
- Even the same words can be used to refer to different concepts. In the above case, it happens because it would not rhyme well if the second verse is written as “Dhammāsaññā loke piyarūpaṃ sātarūpaṃ, etthesā taṇhā uppajjamānā uppajjati, ettha nivisamānā nivisati.“
- However, once we understand the relevant concepts, we should be able to determine which meaning to use. A good example is “Kāya” discussed in the current post “Kāya Can be Pañcupādānakkhandha or Physical Body.”
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The post is “Dasa Samyōjana – Bonds in Rebirth Process.”
- If you use the “Search” box on the top right, you can find relevant posts in many cases. I typed “dasa samyojana,” and that is how I found it.
1. I have taken a quick look at the paper.
- It is an interesting paper from a scientific and philosophical perspective, as the above reviewer concluded.
2. The main issue with Buddha’s teachings is the following.
- There is no way to incorporate “stopping rebirth at the Arahant stage of Nibbana” in this framework.
- According to the proposed model of “Quantum Immortality,” life will continue indefinitely.
- Another issue is that even a “human gandhabba” has a finite lifetime. It will die after many thousands or possibly millions of years to “grasp another existence” as a Deva, Brahma, animal, or other form.
3. Thus, my main objections are primarily with the proposed theory of “Quantum Immortality” based on the “Many-Worlds interpretation of Quantum Mechanics.” It is not compatible with the concept of Nibbana in Buddha’s teachings.
- The above reviewer points out two of several proposed quantum mechanical theories: the Many-Worlds and Bohmian interpretations of Quantum Mechanics.
- The following video provides a brief explanation of the several proposed interpretations of Quantum Mechanics.
Thank you!
I have made the following link for others to download the PDF file:
“Quantum Immortality – Dipabhasadhamma“
I will go over it in the coming day or two.
- In the meantime, I hope others will comment too.
Another explanation of saññā with a different, yet related approach: “Saññā – Hidden Aspect of Paṭicca Samuppāda.”
- Feel free to ask questions.
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I will try to explain the difference between the “mundane theories” (of science, philosophy, and religions) and the “ultimate theory (paramatta dhamma)” of the Buddha about the world using another approach in the next post.
- In the meantime, it is essential to understand that most of the “feelings” of sukha/somanassa or dukkha/domanassa are due to saññā: Vedanā and saññā are closely related. Even though saññā is usually translated as “recognition/perception,” it includes emotions that come with that “recognition/perception.” See “Saññā – What It Really Means.”
- For example, the sweet taste of honey (and the feeling of joy associated with it) is a saññā. The attractiveness of a person or a thing and the pleasant smell of a rose are also the same. Only bodily feelings (e.g., an injury) are strictly vedanā. This is emphasized in Abhidhamma, but not in the suttas.
- We attach to most things with saññā!
- Also, feel free to ask questions about the current post, “Loka – Each Person Perceives the “External World” Differently,” What I am trying to explain is not necessarily hard. Still, it is probably something most people have not even thought about.
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Reading is not the same as understanding.
- “Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta (SN 56.11)” was the first discourse delivered by the Buddha.
- The verse “..pubbe ananussutesu dhammesu cakkhuṁ udapādi, ñāṇaṁ udapādi, paññā udapādi, vijjā udapādi, āloko udapādi.” appears 12 times in the sutta. It means “such was the vision, knowledge, and wisdom, realization arose in me regarding the true/real nature of this world. This understanding was not known to the world before me.” That led him to attain Nibbana and separate from the world. Here, “āloko udapādī” means “separation from the world” upon reaching Buddhahood.
- The Buddha also taught that it is dangerous to grasp his deep/profound teachings incorrectly. See “Alagaddūpama Sutta (MN 22).” Trying to grasp these teachings in the wrong way is dangerous, like trying to catch a snake by its tail; it will bite you, and it can be deadly! This is why I do not wish to answer questions from those who cannot understand what I stated in my previous comment. It will be a waste of time because we will be examining issues from two very different perspectives.
- This series of posts may not be suitable for everyone. If anyone becomes confused, please stop reading the posts in the new section: “Worldview of the Buddha.” I am saying this with compassion. I don’t want to see people getting hurt. Also, remember that the Buddha was discouraged upon attaining Buddhahood, because he thought it would not be easy to teach his newfound Dhamma to the world: “Brahmāyācana Sutta (SN 6.1).”
- My goal is not to increase the number of people who read this website. My goal is to teach those who can grasp these profound teachings without becoming stressed. The goal is to reduce suffering, not increase it!
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Question: “So would it be wrong to say that everything is mental?”
- What I described in my earlier comment is correct. But that version does not explain how that world arises and is sustained. For example, modern science suggests that the universe originated from nothing with a “Big Bang,” and all those “things” and sentient beings evolved over billions of years. That is the “mundane theory” I described in the post.
- The Buddha taught that our world (with all sentient beings and all inert things (trees, mountains, stars, galaxies, etc) arises based on the mental power generated by sentient beings. That is the “ultimate theory (paramatta dhamma)” that I discussed.
- Please re-read the post and ask more questions as needed. It would be helpful for me to cite from the post and ask questions about any unclear points.
The above baseline must be understood before I can answer your other questions.
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